Tim Cook 'Deeply Offended' by BBC Documentary on Apple Factory Conditions

[jaymzuk]

You know perfectly well that most of the people here doesn't give a damn about those poor people but are just finding a new excuse to bash Apple over something that's not Apple's fault.

Oh I know that there are more than enough sycophants here.

Around here people cheer when Apple makes record profits or has record market cap, despite it having no significant impact for those people, yet any criticism is dismissed as a smear.

 

[AlecZ]

I'd like an option to pay a little extra to buy Macs that are made in the USA. Sure the parts will be from elsewhere, but that's the best they can do.

 

[Arran]

So while I do agree with Rogifan insofar that it might not be the most fair thing in the world

Yeah, but how could you make it fairer? Have a list of similarly guilty companies roll across the screen? That would take weeks of airtime and ensure zero viewership.

I don't think it makes the story itself suspect. The documentary went with the best known as a launching point. They're not attacking Apple so much as using them to get their point across. It works because more people have more interest in iPhones and iPads than they do Xboxes and Samsung TVs.

Couldn't have said it better myself. To explore this awkward issue in depth within the time constraints of a TV programme, you have no option but to focus. Personally, I think that's fairer to the people involved - because it gets the real message across more effectively.

 

[MacMan988]

With the new iOS 8 update and the Yosemite update, now my mac also rings when I receive a phone call on my iPhone. When I answer the call on the iPhone, I have to run to my mac to turn down its volume because it simply keeps ringing even after I answer the call on the iPhone. Thats how crappy Apple products are and this is the kind of experience I always had with Apple products.

 

[Max(IT)]

please enlighten this message board on your vast experience of chinese labour practices because you obviously seem to know so much. you have already made enough statements you have not backed up and barely answered any questions.

who said "conception of human rights"?

if apple or the biggest western companies cannot influence who do you think can? if you are going to hide behind regulations then tell me what lobbyists are more powerful?

please explain how that is hypocrisy? how am i or anyone else who objects to this standing in the way of progress ie workers and environment getting a better deal?


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how is made in china suddenly the issue? are you trying to imply that treating factory workers decently is a) not happening anywhere in china and b) not possible in anyway in china?



what phone should they buy? can you please list how the environment and workers are treated better in the process of an iphone vs a oneplus one phone?

obviously one of these phones has a margin big enough to cover substantially better worker compensation.

Yes, I clearly know China better than you.
Apple can't influence their culture in any way.

Stop thinking that a western commercial company can influence China. It doesn't work. It's a typical US view of the world.....
And please, give me a break. Profit margins on Apple's products has NOTHING to do with worker compensation on a remote chinese factory in the middle of nowhere.....

 

[AlecZ]

if apple or the biggest western companies cannot influence who do you think can? if you are going to hide behind regulations then tell me what lobbyists are more powerful?

The Chinese government is the only entity that can do something about it. They currently don't seem to care at all about labor practices, protection of the environment, or copyright and patent protection. It's not Apple's job to fix that.

 

[Arran]

I'd like an option to pay a little extra to buy Macs that are made in the USA. Sure the parts will be from elsewhere, but that's the best they can do.

Here you go. It's a start.

 

[numlock]

Yes, I clearly know China better than you.
Apple can't influence in any way their culture.

Stop thinking that a western commercial company can influence China. It doesn't work. It's a typical US view of the world.....

please educate the rest of us about the chinese labour market and conditions.

again who is talking about apple changing the culture there? the demands they put on the factories + the amount they pay can only be achieved in so many ways.

how has apple been able to improve conditions in china for "their" factory workers in a matter of years?

what about the chinese culture specifically means that they need to be cramped in dormitory rooms and cheated on overtime?

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The Chinese government is the only entity that can do something about it. They currently don't seem to care at all about labor practices, protection of the environment, or copyright and patent protection. It's not Apple's job to fix that.

how has apple been able to improve conditions in these factories? what specific laws and regulations were changed in the last few years?

corporations hiding behind lack of government regulations really is something i never expected to see.

 

[Max(IT)]

I don't have 100+ billion dollars backing me up when I'm out shopping. I can't send agents out to verify the claims made on the packaging, heck the manufacturers make things JUST for them. Apple can, and apparently doesn't do much of it - despite the 100+ Billion, and constant Holier than Thou preachings on political topics.

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Typical. In your version, I should go without basic necessities in life. Sorry, when given an option, I try taking that stance. When it's not an option, I have no choice.

I don't have 100+ billion to be as picky as I'd like. Apple can be, however. And that makes all the difference - especially when apple constantly preaches to me about how I should be aware of social/political issues.

So, basically, you do care ..... unless it doesn't influence your style of life.
But Apple, being a rich company, has to halves profit margins because... well... It's Apple.

A very comfortable way to be "socially engaged"

 

[Renzatic]

Yeah, but how could you make it fairer? Have a list of similarly guilty companies roll across the screen? That would take weeks of airtime and ensure zero viewership.

They could call it the Weekly List 'o Bastards, and play Yakkity Sax while the names scroll across the screen.

I'D WATCH IT! I LOVE YAKKITY SAX!

 

[Max(IT)]

Where is that $5 figure from? Just because it's mentioned a lot doesn't mean it's accurate. The only people who would know how much Foxonn charges Apple to assemble an iPhone is Foxconn and Apple.

Correct. And that price isn't related to life conditions of manufacturer's workers.

 

[numlock]

Correct. And that price isn't related to life conditions of manufacturer's workers.

what does this mean?

 

[Renzatic]

Correct. And that price isn't related to life conditions of manufacturer's workers.

But it does a damn good job explaining why Apple et al. continue to use those factories.

 

[Max(IT)]

im not the one making the statement that its impossible to treat the workers better or that the factories apple deals with are the best in china.

and again there is a big step between a vast improvement for these people and western standards. do you not agree with me there?

so now you disagree with the BOM reports?

They are not western, ok ? They are not subjected to our rules. They are not even influenced by our culture.
Apple could pay them as much as you wish, but their are not going to change their workers condition, because according to their laws, they are treating them right.

Would you like to declare war against China? I'm with you.
But don't blame Apple for that.

 

[numlock]

They are not western, ok ? They are not subjected to our rules. They are not even influenced by our culture.
Apple could pay them as much as you wish, but their are not going to change their workers condition, because according to their laws, they are treating them right.

Would you like to declare war against China? I'm with you.
But don't blame Apple for that.

seriously what?

so you are saying that no matter what apple pays and demands (im assuming one follows the other) that it will never matter at all because the workers are being "treated right"?

btw a quick search found articles on the guardian and the telegraph about laws being broken in factories making dell and apple products. but im sure they just forgot to double check with you.

 

[Max(IT)]

Right, this is how you get your iPhone. Not your Galaxy or Xbox. I saw so many tweets from people using the term "Apple factory" as if Apple owned these factories. I don't think that would have been the case had they focused on the industry as a whole. This isn't an Apple-specific problem it's an industry wide problem. I'm not arguing that they shouldn't focus on Apple, I'm arguing that the focus should be on everyone else too.

It's not even an industry wide problem. It's a world problem....

 

[markcres]

Are you kidding me? The Daily Mail is laughed off time and time again, only out of touch OAP's read it.

Stupid stupid stupid comment !

 

[Max(IT)]

Panorama has been broadcasting for more than 50 years, it's probably one of the most respected documentary series in the world, exposing corruption and rights of human beings. So nah, not kidding.

I know you love your apple products as much as we all do, but time to take those rose tinted glasses off.

Apples promises have been broken, even if they are out of apples control and via third parties, the workers were clearly over worked, bullied and exhausted, and in my opinion apple needs to do more.

IT IS NOT APPLE'S FAULT.
They aren't Apple's employees. They aren't under Apple control. They are working for other companies, and they would be treated the same way if they'd assembling kid's toys for Wal-Mart.

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Just to correct this point.

We in the UK don't have free health care as such, the money is taken without any choice from the wages of the millions of people in the country that work.

The money comes from Tax collected before you get your hands on your months wages.
As opposed to being given all your wages, and then you selecting to buy your own health insurance.

It's free (The National Health Service) at the point of delivery, in the same way the Police and Fire Services are. You still have to pay.

Of course, if you are out of work as you can't find a job, or you are a bone idol lazy bastard who needs a kick up the ass and forced to work for a living and not sponge of state handouts, then you don't pay in, and you get the health service for free also.

I think our service is better in the UK. Whilst you can opt to go Private, it's good to have the Tax payer funded service also, so you don't have to balance your health/an operation against can you afford it as a family.

Same in Italy.... and most of the Europe I think.

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Oh I know that there are more than enough sycophants here.

Around here people cheer when Apple makes record profits or has record market cap, despite it having no significant impact for those people, yet any criticism is dismissed as a smear.

Apple's records profits means they have the resources to develop a new amazing product next year, so yes, they have rights to cheer.

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With the new iOS 8 update and the Yosemite update, now my mac also rings when I receive a phone call on my iPhone. When I answer the call on the iPhone, I have to run to my mac to turn down its volume because it simply keeps ringing even after I answer the call on the iPhone. Thats how crappy Apple products are and this is the kind of experience I always had with Apple products.

You can easily disable that option.... Don't blame Apple for your ignorance.

 

[Technarchy]

Hey Tim, can you just focus on making product and shut up for a little while.

 

[Max(IT)]

please educate the rest of us about the chinese labour market and conditions.

again who is talking about apple changing the culture there? the demands they put on the factories + the amount they pay can only be achieved in so many ways.

how has apple been able to improve conditions in china for "their" factory workers in a matter of years?

what about the chinese culture specifically means that they need to be cramped in dormitory rooms and cheated on overtime?

----------



how has apple been able to improve conditions in these factories? what specific laws and regulations were changed in the last few years?

corporations hiding behind lack of government regulations really is something i never expected to see.

You sound like a broken CD..... It's not Apple. IT IS NOT APPLE.

It's FOXCONN!!!! A Chinese big company.
It's China and their laws.
Period.

It's the same in every factory in China: toys, cars, electronics, clothing. It's China.

This is a list, not compete, of Foxconn customers....


FOXCONN manufactures products for companies including:
(country of headquarters in parentheses)

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
Amazon.com (United States)
Apple Inc. (United States)
ASRock (Taiwan)
Asus (Taiwan)
Barnes & Noble (United States)
Cisco (United States)
Dell (United States)
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)
Intel (United States)
IBM (United States)
Lenovo (China)
Logitech (Switzerland)
Microsoft (United States)
MSI (Taiwan)
Motorola (United States)
Netgear (United States)
Nintendo (Japan)
Nokia (Finland)
Panasonic (Japan)
Philips (Netherlands)
Samsung (South Korea)
Sharp (Japan)
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)
Toshiba (Japan)
Vizio (United States)

----------

But it does a damn good job explaining why Apple et al. continue to use those factories.

Yes, Apple and a long list of other companies.
And we are speaking about Foxconn. There are many others....

----------

what does this mean?

It doesn't matter how much Apple pay.

 

[Renzatic]

Yes, Apple and a long list of other companies.
And we are speaking about Foxconn. There are many others....

Right. I don't think anyone is blaming Apple solely for this. There are many companies involved.

But at the same time, you should realize that the reason why Foxconn is able to do what it does without repercussion is BOTH because of Chinese law allows it, and because these western companies enable it with their money.

 

[alexgowers]

The BBC are right but Tim Cook is only doing the best he can to control these third parties. Tim should not be offended by the truth though that shows he's really out of touch.

For me the real scandal is that pegatron et al aren't being paid enough. Surely if they were they could hire more people and work them less. Apple makes so much profit per item they could afford to pay someone to ensure they adhere exactly.

The issue is preventable.

 

[numlock]

You sound like a broken CD..... It's not Apple. IT IS NOT APPLE.

It's FOXCONN!!!! A Chinese big company.
It's China and their laws.
Period.

It's the same in every factory in China: toys, cars, electronics, clothing. It's China.

This is a list, not compete, of Foxconn customers....


FOXCONN manufactures products for companies including:
(country of headquarters in parentheses)

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
Amazon.com (United States)
Apple Inc. (United States)
ASRock (Taiwan)
Asus (Taiwan)
Barnes & Noble (United States)
Cisco (United States)
Dell (United States)
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)
Intel (United States)
IBM (United States)
Lenovo (China)
Logitech (Switzerland)
Microsoft (United States)
MSI (Taiwan)
Motorola (United States)
Netgear (United States)
Nintendo (Japan)
Nokia (Finland)
Panasonic (Japan)
Philips (Netherlands)
Samsung (South Korea)
Sharp (Japan)
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)
Toshiba (Japan)
Vizio (United States)

----------



Yes, Apple and a long list of other companies.
And we are speaking about Foxconn. There are many others....

----------



It doesn't matter how much Apple pay.

why dont you start answering a question for once and finishing of one particular point instead of continually moving to another statement that you cannot back up. so i understand why that may come across to you as a broken record as it probably gets tiresome to have that pointed out.

just a few posts ago you said laws were not being broken. which is wrong like pretty much everything else you say.

now you copy and paste a long list of company names which dosent really change anything and you make the statement that apple paying more would not change anything. based on what?

 

[Count Blah]

So, basically, you do care ..... unless it doesn't influence your style of life.
But Apple, being a rich company, has to halves profit margins because... well... It's Apple.

A very comfortable way to be "socially engaged"

Who said "halving profit margins?" I don't think it takes a couple billion to,have a couple undercover Apple employees to do what the bbc did. Since the standards are in the contract, what is apple losing by actually inforcing the contract? They lose some manufacturing volume, so your iPhone shipping wait will go from 3 days to 1 week. Little sacrifice to enforce humane working conditions.

BTW - you have no idea what I forgo when it comes to purchasing. I would have to live in a cave if followed that to the letter of they law. But i am very picky in my purchases, and I try to make things last a LONG time, if possible, so as to not waste valuable resources. Which is why the glued-in, disposable Macs being produced by Apple, irks me to the EXTREME. My next computer choice will be extremely difficult because of this.

----------

The BBC are right but Tim Cook is only doing the best he can to control these third parties. Tim should not be offended by the truth though that shows he's really out of touch.

For me the real scandal is that pegatron et al aren't being paid enough. Surely if they were they could hire more people and work them less. Apple makes so much profit per item they could afford to pay someone to ensure they adhere exactly.

The issue is preventable.

link?

How many undercover folks has Apple sen into these companies to ensure the contract terms are being implemented?

 

[Itzamna]

After watching the documentary...

1) If they illegally retrieve and keep the the ID cards, its a Police case not a foreign company affair... I don't believe that from the thousands workers that got their ID's kept away, no one complained to the Police or whatever force China has...

2) The part that "There is no choice at all" makes no sense... They are there by their own will... It's not slavery, it's a job. If you think that you are being mistreated, just go home and find another job...

3) As for the training part, its not up to Apple to deal with that. They are employees of the Chinese company, not Apple's. Again, they can try to reason with them, but if the Chinese law's allows it, they can either stuck with it or leave...

4) I'm a Web Designer and for many times i've fallen asleep on my desk, specially on hard dead lines jobs... Someone, please call BBC for me?

5) They mentioned under age workers... I don't know what are the Chinese laws about it, but again, they are workers of the Chinese company... It's up to China to regulate that.

6) They repeated several times "Apple's workforce"... They are not Apple's workforce... That brings to mind the next point:

7) I think that BBC would do a better job if they stuck to bad working condition in China overall, for any brand production chain. When they focus on Apple only, they come out as sensationalists with some agenda behind their motives...


8) Apple has 2 option...Either it tries to reason with the factory or leave China for good... Apple can't decide anything more than that when they are the foreign company there. China is a sovereign state. Has its own working rules (or lack off)... And if Apple wants to maintain it's 40% margin, they won't leave China, otherwise, the margin will drop...


9) As a bonus... The camera this guy was using to film this documentary about bad working conditions, was built in the same conditions they were reporting...