Tim Cook Says Apple Won't Create 'Converged' Mac and iPad

[Sabretooth78]

So don't use it! I never understood why consumers would not want a feature, I'm sitting at my breakfast bar having breakfast with my surface pro 4 in front of me, the absolutely logical way to navigate is with my fingers on the screen. If we are getting rid of useless hardware, my vote would be to get rid of the trackpad which in all these years of existence I've probably use a dozen times.

Since the surface devices have been released I doubt I would ever go back toa laptop, but if I did there is no way in hell I'd get one without a touchscreen, it's just so damn convenient.

I don't have any to not use! 🙂 As an infrastructure engineer by day and gamer by night, the only "touch" device I have (that I use with any regularity) is my [Android] smart phone which upon becoming too smudged for my tastes can easily and quickly be rubbed against a pant leg thereby rectifying the situation.

Can't do that with an all-in-one. 😉

(Speaking of getting rid of hardware, my vote is to trash the mouse and keep the trackpad. It actually just occurred to me yesterday in fact that I've actually become more adept with the trackpad for gaming than I am with a mouse. I remember when I thought that would never be the case...)

 

[whiteboytrash]

Exactly! Different devices for different uses. I have an iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch - all iOS devices that fill different roles. I'd rather have these different devices with handoff and continuity that are all good at what they do then some Frankenstein device that isn't really good at anything.

Of course this is just one guy's opinion and probably not representative of many.

Correct. I have no issue that hybrids exist. It works for some people. I just don't have the time to fight with device that needs to be "configured" when my tasks are straight forward. A freehand device like iPad Pro is fine by me. It certainly is a creation device for me. But at times I will transfer that creation to desktop/laptop, other times not.

I don't really care if iPad is meant to be seen as a laptop replacement or as a new device category. Its only the task and delivery that is important to me.

 

[Xanix]

Has anyone actually used a Surface tablet? The user experience is not even admirable. It's a mishmash of classic desktop applications with bigger buttons and universal apps with responsive tablet interfaces. Either touch controls are awkward and not truly 'native' or applications are so dumbed down and clumsy-looking so that they are usable on proper Windows 10 tablets or phones. It's the worst situation you could want.

Would you be happy if you could run iPad apps natively on OS X but control with a mouse? Sure, I can see why some people would really love that idea for cross-platform compatibility, but it's just not something worth aspiring too; the bar is just too low and for Apple it would be a step backwards. Forcing developers to create iOS and OS X applications and integrating them by content is a much better method and Apple is currently doing really well in both iOS and OS X third-party content. Microsoft doesn't have that luxury so of course they would want to leverage the strength of their better platform in favour of the other. Apple doesn't need to do that. All Apple needs to do is focus on improving OS X and iOS and playing them to their strengths.

And you Sir? Have you really ever used a Surface?

The iPad, is a tablet build with mobile hardware, running a mobile OS. It was created, for you to buy mini crappy apps. It can’t be used as a notebook. It’s a toy.

The Surface; it has notebook hardware and runs a full OS. You can install applications… including AutoCAD, Photoshop, 3D Studio Max, whatever you want! It can be used has a tablet too, and he can do it quite well. It’s a tool.

… about the access; you can use; a mouse, a keyboard, a pen, your finger; no limits…


I will not even write about the iPad Pro. It’s an Apple’s joke.

 

[navaira]

(Speaking of getting rid of hardware, my vote is to trash the mouse and keep the trackpad. It actually just occurred to me yesterday in fact that I've actually become more adept with the trackpad for gaming than I am with a mouse. I remember when I thought that would never be the case...)

Do we HAVE to get rid of anything? Especially based on the "I don't use it" argument? I would understand the idea of trashing Mac Pro (I'm so amusing) as a line of computers that doesn't generate enough revenue, but a mouse is an accessory that can be used with all Macs since Bluetooth 2.0 was introduced.

There's a lot of things I don't use or have no desire for, but I wouldn't say "get rid of them".

 

[mdlooker]

I think it would be an excellent idea to explore. To have the ability to have a machine that functions with OS and iOS would be awesome. Perhaps Apple is doing it as they condemned a large-screened phone but yet here it is. Mr. Cook says the experience will be lost but I'm wondering how?

Though sales may drop for both Macs and iPads, the sales will still be in the Apple umbrella. And that's if even sales are a consideration.

 

[blairh]

But that tablet part lasts only 2.5 hours and is just as heavy as an iPad Pro.

I'm just saying in principle. Obviously I wouldn't want it to have the terrible battery life. The weight is a non issue.

 

[DigMe]

Wow...how disingenuous. Handoff cannot POSSIBLY be the end of the conversation for this as far as Apple is concerned.

Let me translate from business talk for all of us lay people:
"We feel strongly that customers will not pay enough money for a converged Mac and iPad," said Cook. "Because what that would wind up doing, or what we're worried would happen, is that neither experience would require the customer to buy two expensive products from us instead of just one. So we want to make the best tablet in the world and the best Mac in the world. And putting those two together would halve the money the consumer is paying us."

🙂

 

[Dmunjal]

Has anyone actually used a Surface tablet? The user experience is not even admirable. It's a mishmash of classic desktop applications with bigger buttons and universal apps with responsive tablet interfaces. Either touch controls are awkward and not truly 'native' or applications are so dumbed down and clumsy-looking so that they are usable on proper Windows 10 tablets or phones. It's the worst situation you could want.

Would you be happy if you could run iPad apps natively on OS X but control with a mouse? Sure, I can see why some people would really love that idea for cross-platform compatibility, but it's just not something worth aspiring too; the bar is just too low and for Apple it would be a step backwards. Forcing developers to create iOS and OS X applications and integrating them by content is a much better method and Apple is currently doing really well in both iOS and OS X third-party content. Microsoft doesn't have that luxury so of course they would want to leverage the strength of their better platform in favour of the other. Apple doesn't need to do that. All Apple needs to do is focus on improving OS X and iOS and playing them to their strengths.

And it's easier using two devices? Paying for two devices? Traveling with two devices?

Customers already sent a message to Apple about larger iPhones being better than a small iPhone and an iPad together.

 

[GoodWheaties]

I used to be in the "don't understand a touchscreen on a laptop" camp. Then, I started to use my Surface Pro 3. Had to ditch it for a while because I needed a laptop with a dGPU for some graphics programming I do in my consulting business. I got a Quad Core i7 with a Quadro GPU, but the laptop didn't have a touchscreen.

I was boggled at how often I would want to scroll or pinch zoom with the touchscreen, it just is more natural sometimes.

What Apple doesn't realize is that there are a LOT of younger people who are growing up with iPads and iPhones who suddenly think everything needs to be touch friendly.

My little 5 year old touches everything, and a computer with just a mouse and a keyboard is suddenly alien to him. But my Windows 10 machines (with touchscreens) are easy for him to adapt to. It's been interesting watching him as opposed to my older children.

By making the touch devices so ubiquitous, Apple might have created an interesting problem.

But the thing is, you CAN use touch. The trackpad is right there by the keyboard and supports all the same gestures plus some, and doesn't require moving your hand all over the display. I really think if Windows OEMs had as good trackpads as Macs people wouldn't be as interested in touch screens. It probably wouldn't keep people from accidentally touching the screen, but I can probably count on one hand how many times I've accidentally done that and I use iOS devices a lot. You just automatically adjust.

 

[QquegChristian]

They could release it but it wouldn't be a strategic step forward. It would be the beginning of fragmentation. By simplifying their OS's and range means they maximize margins and products.

If you're looking for an full OS on a tablet you can buy Windows, you're not being stopped. Most if not all major software is available on either Mac or Windows.

I don't see how supporting the Pencil on more devices fragments anything? That's the opposite of fragmenting.

Also, it's really strange that you quote me saying I have a Surface, then tell me to go buy a Surface.

That's 3 sales... Though one is my last gen that I am reselling. Surrounded by my Apple products because I really do love Apple for mobile and TV. Returned the new AppleTV, but that had more to do with the fact that I just couldn't stand the new Netflix app.

As a filmmaker, designer, and photographer and ever since my first iPhone (the 3G) I've been waiting to jump over to OSX. But then little things keep happening to scare me away. The big one was Final Cut X. I'm very connected in the indie filmmaking world. Before FCX I did not know a single filmmaker who didn't edit on a Final Cut... Within months after that, there wasn't a single one that wasn't on Premiere. Back then, I was just too poor to buy a Mac Pro, but today it is a choice that works for me. Thankfully Adobe is cross platform.

There's millions and millions of Windows users like me, that also love Apple devices. You may think we're stupid, but not stupid enough to use a Windows Phone or their pathetic smart Band!

I'm a part of the problem though, I'm inflating those iOS numbers by buying all their casual (consumption) devices while I'm buying Windows for professional (creation) stuff.

 

[AdonisSMU]

Translation: "We don't want to create something people aren't here for."

 

[anthorumor]

They're interested for sure, but they're just waiting.
By then, MS would have perfected the form factor and potentially have all the apps in Surface Pro 10.

 

[maclook]

iOS works well when it's in your hands. OS X works well on your lap or desk. The iPad Pro is a controversial product because all of the sudden Apple is releasing a "Pro" iOS device that's too big to hold in your hands for extended periods and with a keyboard accessory essentially saying that it's meant to be used on a lap or desk. If this is how Apple thinks you should use an iPad professionally, they MUST offer a solution to gorilla arming. I don't need OS X on an iPad but I need a way to use it on a desk without having to hunch over when it's laying flat or reaching up every time i need to navigate the UI.

 

[HiRez]

They will do it.
It's gonna be one of those things that Apple likes to hold on to before releasing.

I'd bet on it too. They denied people wanted larger-screened phones, or styli for tablets, or even native iPhone apps as well and those things all happened. Once Apple has a laptop powered by their own A-series ARM chips (and they will), with OS X natively compiled for it, the gates will be open for the convergence to happen.

 

[KALLT]

The Surface; it has notebook hardware and runs a full OS. You can install applications… including AutoCAD, Photoshop, 3D Studio Max, whatever you want! It can be used has a tablet too, and he can do it quite well. It’s a tool.

That is exactly my point. You are now listing the advantages of a laptop, which is designed for pointer/keyboard and works best when applications accommodate that. The Surface can be a great laptop. Once you turn it into a tablet (i.e. turn on tablet mode), these advantages go away, because applications suddenly need a different interface to accommodate the touch input or they just never feel optimal. It only makes sense if there is more of a separation between both interfaces and that is something that currently favours Apple's approach. MacBooks and iPads are completely optimised for their input methods and don't have to make any assumptions for different ones.

And it's easier using two devices? Paying for two devices? Traveling with two devices?

I never said that I don't see the appeal of an integrated device as such. But the problem remains that touch interfaces and desktop interfaces are to a large extent irreconcilable without preferring one over the other. That is Windows 10 in a nutshell. Microsoft attempts to build two interfaces into one platform and this isn't something Apple should aspire to. If you really need both devices on a daily basis then you have clear preferences for both, which makes the case even stronger for two dedicated devices instead of a hybrid. People are thinking too much in terms of hardware advantages and then neglect what it means for the software-side.

Besides, if people buy Surface tablets for cost reasons so that they don't have to buy two devices and save money are completely delusional when they think that Apple would price such a device below a MacBook.

 

[Gudi]

Two devices for the price of one? Not on Apple's turf!

And not on Microsoft's turf either. The Surface is one device that doubles as two devices for the price of three devices. I don't know why people keep pretending they save money with a 2-in-1? The Surface Book starts at $1.499 and goes all the way up to $3.199 - at which point you are better off buying a smartphone, a tablet and a notebook separately.

$649 iPhone 6s
$499 iPad Air 2
$1.299 MacBook
=
$2.447 "These are (not, not) three separate devices!"

 

[rayzorboriqua]

While the iPad Pro further bridges the gap between iOS and OS X, and notebooks and tablets as a whole, Apple CEO Tim Cook recently told the Irish Independent that Apple is not interested in creating a "converged Mac and iPad."

Instead, Cook said Apple wants to create the best possible Mac and iPad, suggesting that both products have a strong future. The chief executive is "bullish" about the reverse of declining iPad sales in recent quarters.Last week, Cook rhetorically questioned why anyone would buy a PC anymore -- excluding the Mac, which he says is not the "same" -- and said the iPad Pro will serve as a replacement for a notebook or desktop computer for "many, many people."Many early iPad Pro reviews described the tablet as a powerful creative canvas, but not quite a true PC replacement. Benchmarks found the iPad Pro delivers MacBook Air-class CPU performance and MacBook Pro-class GPU performance.

MacStories editor Federico Viticci, as someone who uses iOS as his main computing platform, felt otherwise. "I don't see myself using a Mac as my primary computer ever again," he wrote in his iPad Pro review.

Cook also provided a non-comment about Apple's rumored electric vehicle plans, emphasizing "a need for a focus on user interface."Follow our iPad Pro and Apple Car roundups for the latest news about each topic.

Article Link: Tim Cook Says Apple Won't Create 'Converged' Mac and iPad

You can't say people don't want it because the surface is selling better than ever right now. Windows 8 was a good idea executed poorly, windows 10 is an excellent compromise for both touch and mouse control. I love my Mac, but windows 10 has raised the bar and cortana is amazing.

He can't say they have kept them completely separate either, what do you call notification center on OSX? The Mail app after the Lion update, it moved from a more power user focused interface, to the simpler iPad style. What in god's name do you call launchpad? I personally never used or saw any need for it. It's an app who's very purpose is to turn a complicated desktop into a dumbed down springboard. He cannot say iOS had 0 effect on OSX's development these past few years.

What I will agree with is there are some fundamental differences in how I use each, I still predominantly use a browser to consume media and news, where as on iOS there's more often a native app to do it more efficiently. WIth the exception of power user software (IDE's, Adobe software, etc), I almost always use my browser.

Developers have a strong influence in the future of Apple's OS though. Angry birds is the first example that comes to mind. When the first game showed up on the Mac App Store many UI elements were just scaled from the iPhone version to make use of the desktop screen real estate, but the app functioned almost identically. There was nothing wrong with that either. Like many of Windows 10 apps, UI elements just need to be made bigger or smaller, but there can be some uniformity in design. Once the touch based side is done, it's easy to shrink everything down to have a clean desktop experience.

I personally think hybrids are stupid, but I do not use or feel the need to have a tablet. So I'd be the wrong target for that product. But I seem to be a minority and it is in demand, he'd be foolish to think it's not. I think people just don't want to pay for two separate devices when they can have both.

Apple will either change their opinion in the future on hybrids and OS design, or the hybrid fad will die out. But one of those WILL happen.

 

[Mac 128]

And it's easier using two devices? Paying for two devices? Traveling with two devices?

Customers already sent a message to Apple about larger iPhones being better than a small iPhone and an iPad together.

Apologies to anyone who has already brought this up, but I can't wade through all 15 pages this morning.

First of all, I don't agree customers have sent this message. I believe some customers have sent this message and others have simply accepted what Apple offered because it served their needs best. But that's a whole other argument than the one I'm going to make.

I'd opt for Apple to sell a MacBook which uses the iPad as a display. In other words, a well engineered device that's a full blown MacBook running OS X when the customer needs it, and a full blown iPad running iOS when the customer prefers that, engineered so that they fit together like the perfect device, never knowing they were two separate devices. If Apple improves the integration of the iPad and MacBook, there could be a way to synchronize certain files between the two such that there was no need to copy things back and forth, they'd just be where you left them. In fact the MacBook could be used with an external monitor when the iPad is detached.

Certainly it would be more expensive than a normal MacBook, but then again, it's really two devices, for which the customer is paying a convenience to have them work together and separately.

I'd buy one of these in a heartbeat if Apple offered it.

 

[Janichsan]

You can't say people don't want it because the surface is selling better than ever right now.

And still, it's only a tiny fraction of what Apple (or any other tablet manufacturer) sells of dedicated tablets.

 

[QquegChristian]

Of all the talk of a hybrid device being unnecessary... Think of how many people use paper. Paper notebooks, pads, sticky notes. Think of students. Then think of how many businessmen use day planners, ledgers, etc. There's always been this idea of going paperless and many, many people have with the iPad. But there are also tons of holdouts too. The pen is the answer.

To me, a hybrid isn't a tablet and laptop... It is a laptop and digital paper. That's why I fell in love with my Surface. I went totally paperless without having to carry two devices.

I've got enough crap to carry and charge when I'm on a film or photography shoot!

 

[Precision Gem]

And it's easier using two devices? Paying for two devices? Traveling with two devices?

I use a iMac 27" at home, and travel with an iPad. So I don't travel with 2 devices. At the home office I use the iMac mainly for website creation and processing orders with QuickBooks.

Traveling I have no need for either of these. Traveling it is reading and replying to email, web surfing, maps, booking hotels, etc. For this type of thing the iPad Pro with the keyboard will be ideal. I also use the iPad in my job in the office in meetings taking hand written notes using NotesPlus. For this, the Apple Pencil will be ideal (when it finally ships). At work, I am forced to use a Windows Laptop, which is company provided. A Dell 17" Precision 6700. A very powerful workstation, but extremely heavy to take on the road. So when I am in the work office I am on the the Dell, with the iPad for support, and used as a second monitor.

Coupled with the Apple Watch and iPhone 6, this all works very well for me. A Surface 3 or 4 wouldn't be a good replacement for the 27" iMac retina, nor could it replace the Dell Workstation running intensive engineering software, nor would it be a good replacement for the iPad Pro.

 

[Dmunjal]

of course there is such car. but the question is what is its market share compared to car or pick-up truck? does it has gas mileage like a car? can it carry big load like a pick up truck? of course not. that was my point. you can combine all you want but you will lose advantages .

this is a car that can also fly, and some people want it. but it is tiny minority.

Maybe you're not paying attention. SUV sales are booming. Porsche and BMW sell more SUVs than cars now.

 

[citysnaps]

That is entirely based on the iPhone. But the iPad has been declining for many quarters. That is what is being discussed here.

No, what you brought up was: "There's obviously a huge disconnect between Tim Cook and his customers. He either needs new advisors that can read public forums, or maybe he should fire up Macrumors.com on his new iPad Pro and do some light reading."

My response was to your flawed assertion. Yes, the tablet market in general has been declining. With respect to the iPad it has to do with people not needing to upgrade every two years like many do with phones. I think most people are aware of that. Surely you know that, right?

Still, every single quarter Apple sells more iPads than Microsoft has sold the sum total of all Surfaces since introduced several years ago. Every quarter. Many companies would die to have the yearly revenue represented by the iPad.

"That is entirely based on the iPhone."

No, it's not.

 

[Dmunjal]

And not on Microsoft's turf either. The Surface is one device that doubles as two devices for the price of three devices. I don't know why people keep pretending they save money with a 2-in-1? The Surface Book starts at $1.499 and goes all the way up to $3.199 - at which point you are better off buying a smartphone, a tablet and a notebook separately.

$649 iPhone 6s
$499 iPad Air 2
$1.299 MacBook
=
$2.447 "These are (not, not) three separate devices!"

Surface Pro 4 is cheaper than the IPP with keyboard and pen.

 

[Reds622]

It's all about the $$$$..

Why would Apple create a product that does both and costs, say, $899, when they can make two products that cost approximately $500 and $899 respectively.. It's all about finding ways to "appease" shareholders now for Apple by delivering higher and higher yearly revenues, which is a shame. For a long while Apple didn't really care what the market thought of them. It was all about their customers. In this regard, I would say, that Tim Cook has fundamentally changed the company for the worse. I am not saying that Tim Cook has been a bad CEO, because I like most of what Apple is doing under his leadership, but this commitment and focus on the markets has been a terrible direction for Apple.