Tim Cook: The Ethos and DNA of Apple 'Have Never Been Stronger on the Innovation Front'

[Abazigal]

And once again you choose to divert the discussion. We are talking about the performance and innovation on the entire computer line up, which has been a disaster in the past 3 years.

PAthetic how you think that Designing one of the worse products Apple ever designed, the MBP 2016+, and its subsequent failure to fix the problem for over 4 years it is a random criticism based on personal opinion.

And by the way this is not only confirmed by reviewers, but by Apple itself apologizing and by class action lawsuits due to major REPEATED keyboard failures.

Please enlighten us how paying 3k for and underspec computer, that it is NOT upgradable and you cannot type is considered a "random criticism"? It is more considered a complete rip off.

It’s innovation from Apple’s design-led perspective, which among other things, entails making their products more personal. Apple had this idea of bringing the Mac forward to keep it relevant in an increasingly mobile world. This included dropping all ports for usb C (a very versatile connector), replacing the function keys with the touchbar (taking inspiration from the iPad keyboard), as well as making it thinner and lighter (improved portability).

Which in turn entailed Apple taking risks such as dropping the MagSafe and introducing the butterfly keyboard mechanism.

Granted, things didn’t exactly pan out, but I see the method to Apple’s apparent madness. I get your frustrations. There are people who need and expect good tools from Apple to get their work done and it’s natural they get upset when they don’t get what they want.

Also, I think what @Baymowe335 is trying to say is that the neglect of the Mac line may be a necessary evil as Apple continues to channel more and more resources towards mobile, wearables, health, self-driving cars and whatever other initiatives they have in the pipeline.

And looking at Apple’s earning reports, it’s hard to argue with the results, even if you don’t like the methods.

In an ideal world, Apple would probably have enough resources to keep all their products updated in lockstep and on a timely manner. In reality, Apple has only so many engineers at their disposal, and between focusing on what Apple believes to represent a future (wearables) which presents so much potential for a more personal, intimate means of computing, vs continuing to support a legacy platform (the Mac) which doesn’t, it’s not hard to see why Apple has opted for the former.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Lol, you don't get it do you, liquid.. as in LCD, as in old screen technology.. and did you really describe retina as a technology lol? Its marketing buff!!! Are the 326 ppi screen resolutions still less than 720p baby HD? Lol. in other words, fancy words for an old product...

No, you don’t get it. Yes, Apple has incredible marketing and branding, as you’ve said. But they also have the technology to back it up.

iPhone XR, 11 and the 2018 iPad Pro don’t have the sharp 90° corners of the older Retina displays. The corners are now rounded. Making that look good requires new applications of technology. Specifically, Apple uses pixel masking and sub-pixel antialiasing to provide a smooth, sharp curve instead of the stair-stepped appearance that would otherwise be present.

That Apple has branded the combination of these features “Liquid Retina” may upset you, but that’s not Apple’s problem—nor does it take anything away from Apple’s engineering, fabrication and manufacturing expertise. Some were also upset when Apple branded their bright, high density, color accurate LCDs as Retina.

Apple also has other features like wide color gamut (DCI-P3 color space) and TrueTone auto-White balance to make their displays even more accurate. They simply look great. Many iPhone users even prefer Apple’s LCD displays over OLED, while others see little difference.

You keep giving Apple credit for having amazing marketing and branding, yet are upset with their success, and simultaneously refuse to give credit to the engineering proficiency behind the marketing “hype”.

Apple is demonstrably highly-effective at marketing and branding their engineering excellence; maybe it’s time for you to acknowledge that fact.

 

[chucker23n1]

Lol, you don't get it do you, liquid.. as in LCD, as in old screen technology..

For color accuracy and longevity, LCD still trumps OLED. Given that iPads (especially iPads Pro) are often used where color accuracy matters (drawing/painting/photo/video editing), moving the iPad Pro to OLED would in that sense be a downgrade. I don't know if that's the reason why the iPad Pro and MacBook Pro are still on OLED, but it wouldn't be surprise me. (They might even move the MacBook Air and iPad and iPad Air to OLED, and not do so for the MacBook Pro and iPad Pro. For this very reason.)

and did you really describe retina as a technology lol? Its marketing buff!!! Are the 326 ppi screen resolutions still less than 720p baby HD? Lol. in other words, fancy words for an old product...

Of course "Retina Display" is marketing, just like Samsung's "QLED" or Google's "Progressive Web App".

That doesn't really make it a bad term. At the time iPhone 4 launched with a Retina Display, that was a pretty big leap. Throughout the 90s, desktop displays were stuck around 90ppi, and laptop displays around 120ppi. With the Retina Display, that was doubled. Windows has long had support for higher ppis on paper, but in practice, it was unusable: there were few screens on it, and almost no apps (including almost no apps from Microsoft themselves) supported it. It wasn't until around Windows 8.1 that this improved (8.1 added support for different ppis per monitor), and even with Windows 10, they fumbled around several times (just look at the release notes of recent versions of .NET Framework, and see how often they had to fix ppi issues).

All that? All that was set in motion in large part because Apple set a new benchmark of what the ppi should be. And that's what Retina Display encompasses.
[automerge]1576490867[/automerge]

Also, I think what @Baymowe335 is trying to say is that the neglect of the Mac line may be a necessary evil as Apple continues to channel more and more resources towards mobile, wearables, health, self-driving cars and whatever other initiatives they have in the pipeline.

And looking at Apple’s earning reports, it’s hard to argue with the results, even if you don’t like the methods.

In an ideal world, Apple would probably have enough resources to keep all their products updated in lockstep and on a timely manner. In reality, Apple has only so many engineers at their disposal, and between focusing on what Apple believes to represent a future (wearables) which presents so much potential for a more personal, intimate means of computing, vs continuing to support a legacy platform (the Mac) which doesn’t, it’s not hard to see why Apple has opted for the former.

This seems like a valid criticism around two or three years ago, but they've since fixed many of the issues. They've released a new Mac mini, added a high-end variant of the iMac, made a Mac Pro that makes a lot more sense than the 2013 model, announced a rack-mount version for it, replaced the one-port MacBook with a new MacBook Air, and more. There's still stuff left to do (such as giving the entire MacBook line-up a reliable keyboard) and questions left to answer (when will there be another Mac mini? was this a one-off?), but they've gotten considerably better at signaling that the Mac is a product they care about.

 

[ipponrg]

Says Who?? A person that lacks the vision to see actual FACTS?



And once again you choose to divert the discussion. We are talking about the performance and innovation on the entire computer line up, which has been a disaster in the past 3 years.

PAthetic how you think that Designing one of the worse products Apple ever designed, the MBP 2016+, and its subsequent failure to fix the problem for over 4 years it is a random criticism based on personal opinion.

And by the way this is not only confirmed by reviewers, but by Apple itself apologizing and by class action lawsuits due to major REPEATED keyboard failures.

Please enlighten us how paying 3k for and underspec computer, that it is NOT upgradable and you cannot type is considered a "random criticism"? It is more considered a complete rip off.

Batmowe doesn’t care as long as the stock prices move up. He selectively pulls facts. Regardless if you have a keyboard repair program for those specific issues, all it matters in the end of the day is a stock driven financial armchair thinking he is a product person. Why bother even debating with him? Better off talking to a different wall who actually has more rounded skills

Let me pretend I’m him: “Stock prices and Apple’s success contradict these random criticisms”. 🤣

 

[chucker23n1]

He selectively pulls facts.

Well, and Peperino selectively pulled criticisms.

 

[Stevie jobz 2.0]

No, you don’t get it. Yes, Apple has incredible marketing and branding, as you’ve said. But they also have the technology to back it up.

iPhone XR, 11 and the 2018 iPad Pro don’t have the sharp 90° corners of the older Retina displays. The corners are now rounded. Making that look good requires new applications of technology. Specifically, Apple uses pixel masking and sub-pixel antialiasing to provide a smooth, sharp curve instead of the stair-stepped appearance that would otherwise be present.

That Apple has branded the combination of these features “Liquid Retina” may upset you, but that’s not Apple’s problem—nor does it take anything away from Apple’s engineering, fabrication and manufacturing expertise. Some were also upset when Apple branded their bright, high density, color accurate LCDs as Retina.

Apple also has other features like wide color gamut (DCI-P3 color space) and TrueTone auto-White balance to make their displays even more accurate. They simply look great. Many iPhone users even prefer Apple’s LCD displays over OLED, while others see little difference.

You keep giving Apple credit for having amazing marketing and branding, yet are upset with their success, and simultaneously refuse to give credit to the engineering proficiency behind the marketing “hype”.

Apple is demonstrably highly-effective at marketing and branding their engineering excellence; maybe it’s time for you to acknowledge that fact.

Oh mate, this stuff is really important to you isnt it.. bringing in rounded corners into a light hearted chat about silly marketing terms... oh dear. I think ive upset you with my joviality suggesting retina wasnt an actual peice of technology and its pretty low res in the grand scheme of things , I can only apologise for causing you this distress...

#peace

 

[PickUrPoison]

Oh mate, this stuff is really important to you isnt it.. bringing in rounded corners into a light hearted chat about silly marketing terms... oh dear. I think ive upset you with my joviality suggesting retina wasnt an actual peice of technology and its pretty low res in the grand scheme of things , I can only apologise for causing you this distress...

#peace

Lol not distressed in the least, but thanks for your concern . Bringing peace, love and joy to Mac Rumors forum posters—with clear, understandable facts to combat the misinformation that spreads all too easily on the internet—is what I’m here for!!

#peacelovejoytoMacRumorslol

 

[Peperino]

Well, and Peperino selectively pulled criticisms.

I do not selectively pulled criticism. I give credit where it is due like the wearables.
My criticism of Apple was always about the entire computer line up, especially on the lack of quality and innovation. Baymore always divert the discussion, like you, when you cannot argue with the real facts.

 

[chucker23n1]

I do not selectively pulled criticism. I give credit where it is due like the wearables.
My criticism of Apple was always about the entire computer line up, especially on the lack of quality and innovation. Baymore always divert the discussion, like you, when you cannot argue with the real facts.

Meh. Here's what you said:

"- The Pathetic Macbooks Pro 2016-19 and the worse keyboard EVER?
- The entire line of Laptops that has turned into disposable appliances due to the soldered components?
- A 10 year old designed iMac?
- a 10k+ Mac Pro that you cannot upgrade the internal SSD?
- Or the new just updated entry iPads that still have no USB-C and still uses the Apple pen 1 that you have to ridiculously plug into the lighting port?"

It sounds more like an axe to grind than thoughtful critique. Much of this just isn't a big deal.

It's not like the Jobs era was devoid of weird missteps. The PowerBook G4 Titanium looked great, buti ts paint also chipped off. The Cube was even worse in that regard. Not to mention the first-generation iPod nano. The original iMac's mouse was equally panned as the butterfly keyboards (rightfully) are today. Laptops used to be far heavier and thicker, making them less practical. And so on. Steve was very opinionated, and often got it right, but sometimes got it very wrong. Cook is largely hands-off with products, so he's not really the right person to address when criticizing the current line-up.

I'm also not sure why you presume the Mac Pro SSD can't be upgraded. It's on two sockets; presumably, OWC will come out with replacements just a few months from now.

If you're not happy with laptops having soldered components, that's valid, but also, that was definitely gonna happen under Jobs as well (if anything, he probably would've asked for a more aggressive timetable), and it's exactly what most of the market wants: a slim, lightweight, simple appliance.

I mean, really, have you looked at the original iMac? And the original Mac for that matter? You think that company was the company of replaceable components?

 

[kengeon]

First unibody MBP's were highly repairable. Today's are not so much. I don't think people would mind as much about soldered on parts if there was the ability to recover data from fried boards in which the SSD was still good and the ability to fix boards in which just a small component was broken. Apple intentionally and I'd go as far as to say maliciously prevents both.

But the real problem is the pricing for what you're given. Apple was never cheap. But with Steve Jobs they always provided good value for the price providing features sets you couldn't find elsewhere. They used to be years ahead of the competition. Now, look at the marketplace. It takes a year at most for the rest of the market to catch up. Take the front-facing camera notch as an example. First, every other competitor had a similar-sized notch. Then next year they made their front-facing camera's hole tiny. Now we are seeing prototypes for invisible front-facing cameras that are hidden behind screens. All while Apple has had three years of large front-facing notches. That's not fast enough.

Yes, Apple can be innovative. Look at their processors which are year on year better than everyone else's. But most customers don't buy smartphones based on SOC performance.

 

[I7guy]

..:They used to be years ahead of the competition. Now, look at the marketplace. It takes a year at most for the rest of the market to catch up. Take the front-facing camera notch as an example. First, every other competitor had a similar-sized notch. Then next year they made their front-facing camera's hole tiny. Now we are seeing prototypes for invisible front-facing cameras that are hidden behind screens. All while Apple has had three years of large front-facing notches. That's not fast enough.
...

Which competitors offer a Face ID with under the screen technology that rivals apples Face ID and is used for financial transactions authentication?

 

[Stevie jobz 2.0]

Apple TV and Apple TV+ revolutionising home entertainment.

Let's just put some meat on the bones about this comment shall we. If I'm not mistaken apple tv/plus is a subscription service where you can see a collection of existing and original content streamed to your tv for a monthly fee. Have I missed anything? What's revolutionary about this?
"See" was dull as ditchwater, after 20 mins i turned it off!!
Please feel free to enlighten the masses about how its different to say Netflix?

 

[dumastudetto]

Let's just put some meat on the bones about this comment shall we. If I'm not mistaken apple tv/plus is a subscription service where you can see a collection of existing and original content streamed to your tv for a monthly fee. Have I missed anything? What's revolutionary about this?
"See" was dull as ditchwater, after 20 mins i turned it off!!
Please feel free to enlighten the masses about how its different to say Netflix?

Apple TV is the hardware that enabled services like Netflix to flourish.
Apple TV+ is the service that will kill Netflix eventually.

 

[Stevie jobz 2.0]

Apple TV is the hardware that enabled services like Netflix to flourish.
Apple TV+ is the service that will kill Netflix eventually.

So all the millions of phones, tablets, laptops, smart TVs that wernt apple TV had nothing to do with the success of Netflix?
And aTV+ , the new kid in the block that is only available on a small percentage of devices will kill the giant that's on every device in the world?

You forgot to say how it was revolutionary? I'll wait?

 

[Stevie jobz 2.0]

So all the millions of phones, tablets, laptops, smart TVs that wernt apple TV had nothing to do with the success of Netflix?
And aTV+ , the new kid in the block that is only available on a small percentage of devices will kill the giant that's on every device in the world?

You forgot to say how it was revolutionary? I'll wait?

Mr dumastudetto, I'm still waiting.. guess you're the sort of chap that throws out redic statements with nothing to back them up.. then when called out on said comments, retreats into the wilderness.. because... you have nothing to back them up... oh well. Have a good xmas... maybe in 2020 apple tv plus will be revolutionary? Not holding my breath....

 

[Peperino]

"- The Pathetic Macbooks Pro 2016-19 and the worse keyboard EVER?
- The entire line of Laptops that has turned into disposable appliances due to the soldered components?
- A 10 year old designed iMac?
- a 10k+ Mac Pro that you cannot upgrade the internal SSD?
- Or the new just updated entry iPads that still have no USB-C and still uses the Apple pen 1 that you have to ridiculously plug into the lighting port?"

It sounds more like an axe to grind than thoughtful critique. Much of this just isn't a big deal.

It sounds more like true facts that you do not care to acknowledge. If you do not like the facts that is another issue. Especially if you dare to consider that the ongoing problem with the entire Laptop line (keyboard, heating, etc) isn't a big deal, then it looks like you do not care much about Apple quality control anymore. And if that is not a big issue, then it speaks about your low quality standards that you are willing to accept, at way overpriced products.