Trolling by non-Apple users

[decafjava]

I want some rules or principles on the forum clarified in regards to a specific kind of trolling.

First of all I am not saying non-Apple users should not be permitted to post or anything of that sort. For example there are posters who either like and use older (even classic) Apple gear and are not enamoured of recent offerings, some who no longer use at all for reasons X, Y or Z but are still interested in tech in general. There are those who almost exclusively post in the alternatives to ios forum and also don't use Macs (as opposed to many users who have Macs and Android phones or vice-versa). A bit odd to me but fine.

No, I am talking about users who maybe at one time used Apple products and then moved to other brands/OS and continually troll criticizing current Apple users and Apple stuff with nary a bad word about the competition. A good example are several on this thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/goodbye-android.2124473/

Now perhaps the poster that started the thread was also trolling (they are a new MR member after all), but honestly some of the comments on the thread, certainly in the most recent pages are not very productive and I really wonder what these posters are trying to accomplish. Maybe I am wrong and these don't violate the rules but it is more a trend that I feel is not conducive to honest discussion and critique.

 

[Absrnd]

In think most of the time they are just young, non Apple users, that have a strong opinion because they've seen a YouTube vid proving their point, and want to show their prowess as keyboard warriors.

And then there are the non Apple users that really try to discredit Apple in any way possible, also because MacRumors is a popular Apple site, and sometimes linked to, when something about Apple (bad good) is posted in news items.

I think there are a lot of trolls here on the Apple forum, some postings are really, really dumb and provoke a lot of comments, and they keep trying to prove their point, even it has been proven not to be true.

I found some users in several topics, just posting "that sucks" "it's really bad" and so forth,
and they post the same replies everywhere.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Actually, I see it as part of a wider issue with the tone and content of many of the posts (and threads) on a forum such as this and the manner in which online debate is conducted in general.

It seems that it is not enough to have an opinion but that one must express it vehemently, forcefully, adamantly, and sneer with corrosive contempt at the sheer unspeakable stupidity of anyone who may dare to disagree with you.

Re tech, it goes both ways: Those who love Apple (the adulation evident in the "what would Steve think?" threads - which drive me bonkers, - and the monumental intolerance of those who like and have accepted a tech development but who insist on sneering at those who do not), are every bit as trying as the stuff posted by some who simply cannot stand Apple.

Then, there are those who detest Apple, who have always disliked the company, and there are those who have fallen out of love with the company in recent years who used to be passionately loyal customers, or those who merely dislike the direction the company and its products have taken in recent years.

For both those who love Apple and those who don't, I suspect that some element of the emotional intensity and ferocity of their posts comes from the fact that they may see possession (or non-possession) of these products and devices as an extension of their sense of identity and who they think they are and how they define themselves.

Thus, an attack on the company becomes a personal attack on them.

For my part, I am not enamoured at the intensity of the intolerance and ferocious feelings as expressed on some of these threads; I think life (and technology) is a considerably more nuanced than that, and it would be nice to see this reflected occasionally.

 

[S.B.G]

It seems that it is not enough to have an opinion but that one must express it vehemently, forcefully, adamantly, and sneer with corrosive contempt at the sheer unspeakable stupidity of anyone who may dare to disagree with you.

I suspect that some element of the emotional intensity an ferocity of their posts comes from the fact that they may see possession (or non-possession) of these products and devices as an extension of their sense of identity and who they think they are and how they defines themselves. Thus, an attack on the company becomes a personal attack on them.

I think you've nailed the issues quite well in the above quotes. I see the same thing online all over and I even see this poor attitude bleed over into real life discussions at times.

I find it sad that some people are unable or unwilling to engage in civil debate and have an open mind to new, different or opposing ideas. Even if one still disagrees with another viewpoint, they should be able to tolerate, if not accept it as a viable alternative to their own views without having to attack it and/or take it as a personal affront to them.

 

[decafjava]

So the upshot is nothing can be done officially? That's what I thought and it makes me a bit sad.

 

[Weaselboy]

So the upshot is nothing can be done officially? That's what I thought and it makes me a bit sad.

Sorry, I did not notice your thread until this morning.

I too am sometimes annoyed by posts that do nothing but complain, but from a moderation perspective, it is sometimes hard to differentiate between someone who is posting a legitimate complaint and someone who is just trolling. We try to look at context and post history to decide.

If you see posts that you think are nothing but trolling, please report them and we'll take a look.

 

[FFR]

So the upshot is nothing can be done officially? That's what I thought and it makes me a bit sad.

I posted in that thread and I have lost my temper on more than one occasion on this forum, but it’s just getting a bit too much.

I’m on a Mac forum, using a Mac and iPhone in apples ecosystem and it’s a constant bombardment of rage against apple, the Mac, the iPhone, and it’s “sheep” users.

Usually by the same posters.

 

[Feenician]

Sorry, I did not notice your thread until this morning.

I too am sometimes annoyed by posts that do nothing but complain, but from a moderation perspective, it is sometimes hard to differentiate between someone who is posting a legitimate complaint and someone who is just trolling. We try to look at context and post history to decide.

If you see posts that you think are nothing but trolling, please report them and we'll take a look.

I have reported a number of name calling posts over the last few days. Specifically, “sheep” comments. Sometimes they are moderated and sometimes not. I don’t entirely understand why. Is there a difference in moderation policy if someone replies to an individual with a “sheep” comment, rather than just post in a thread to no-one in particular calling everyone sheep? Seem it’s name calling in either case.

I posted in that thread and I have lost my temper on more than one occasion on this forum, but it’s just getting a bit too much.

I’m on a Mac forum, using a Mac and iPhone in apples ecosystem and it’s a constant bombardment of rage against apple, the Mac, the iPhone, and it’s “sheep” users.

Usually by the same posters.

There are plenty of posters who seem to only be here to aggravate. Their entire post history is negativity and name calling. I really don’t get why they’re here. I’ve been trying to improve my own posting lately (not always entirely successfully, I admit) and I’ve just started putting these accounts on ignore either immediately, or after it becomes clear they can’t or won’t engage in an actual discussion. The problem with that approach is that threads start to make no sense because you see people replying to invisible posts. I’m not sure what else to do. Yes, I know, grow a thicker skin and all that but, like you say, too much.

In a thread where people are actually trying to discuss the throttling issues and how it affects them, “OMG FANBOYZ AM I RITE” posts. Is there a place for discussing sometimes irrational defense? Maybe, but it isn’t in that thread.
#1172
#1183

 

[Weaselboy]

I have reported a number of name calling posts over the last few days. Specifically, “sheep” comments. Sometimes they are moderated and sometimes not. I don’t entirely understand why. Is there a difference in moderation policy if someone replies to an individual with a “sheep” comment, rather than just post in a thread to no-one in particular calling everyone sheep? Seem it’s name calling in either case.

Directly calling another member a sheep would of course be name calling as you said, and so would calling others in a thread sheep. But sometimes these comments are worded in a way that it is not clear that is the case.

I'm not seeing one you reported recently for sheep, so I'm not sure which post you mean specifically. If you can find a reported post you think we should not have rejected, please send it in using the contact us link and the admins can take a second look at it for you.

https://forums.macrumors.com/misc/contact/

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Apple used to be a niche product, an extremely well designed and sometimes beautiful - niche product, and the company catered to a relatively small number (by contrast with the numbers who bought Windows run Machines) of individuals, who were - as part of a very clever and imaginative advertising campaign - encouraged to think of themselves as a sort of esoteric elite distinguished by taste and a liking for the sort of tech design where form and function met and merged in a flawless fusion.

Since then, Apple has become a global giant (iPod, iPhone, iPad, Apple watch, etc), commercial and technologically, has moved well beyond its original roots as a designer of superb computers and exquisite software, and has captured a significant section of the market for such goods.

That, inevitably, has led to an enormous change in the culture that surrounds the discussion of Apple products; from attracting disciples (and occasional dissenters), the company has transformed and transmogrified into a global giant attracting a mass consumer base.

Thus, the tone and content of any discussion will inevitably change in the wake of that - sometimes, for the worse.

 

[Feenician]

Directly calling another member a sheep would of course be name calling as you said, and so would calling others in a thread sheep. But sometimes these comments are worded in a way that it is not clear that is the case.

I'm not seeing one you reported recently for sheep, so I'm not sure which post you mean specifically. If you can find a reported post you think we should not have rejected, please send it in using the contact us link and the admins can take a second look at it for you.

https://forums.macrumors.com/misc/contact/

Thank you. Unfortunately I don't see a way to see the actual posts I reported, just the thread titles. I will continue to report them.

I appreciate your efforts. Some of the recent conversations in this subforum have certainly increased my understanding of the challenges the moderators face and I'm making an effort to not be part of the problem.

 

[D.T.]

If you see posts that you think are nothing but trolling, please report them and we'll take a look.

I feel like I do this a little too much, I mean, just trying to make this place better, but quite a few reports result in "no action", so I feel like I'm just making work for the mods.

Usually by the same posters.

Yeah, there seems to be a few "usual suspects", from my perspective (from being online for 30+ years), they're _clearly_ trolling, but see above. Maybe their history shows enough positive contributions, that the mods just error to the _not_trolling_ side of things.

I realize it's hard - to the point of impossible - to determine intent online.

Someone actually had a pretty terrific post in a different thread, re: trolling, but for the life me, I can't find it now.

 

[Feenician]

I feel like I do this a little too much, I mean, just trying to make this place better, but quite a few reports result in "no action", so I feel like I'm just making work for the mods.




Yeah, there seems to be a few "usual suspects", from my perspective (from being online for 30+ years), they're _clearly_ trolling, but see above. Maybe their history shows enough positive contributions, that the mods just error to the _not_trolling_ side of things.

I realize it's hard - to the point of impossible - to determine intent online.

Someone actually had a pretty terrific post in a different thread, re: trolling, but for the life me, I can't find it now.

I’m also reporting more, as I argue less. There is the feeling of “being a pain” for the mods. Also when I report something that seems a clear violation to me but is marked no action it’s a little dispiriting and can feel like I’m wasting my time, as well as theirs. Like you say though, just because I think it’s clear the mods may legitimately judge it differently.

 

[44267547]

The Moderators and administrators actually encourage users to report post(s) that they are not sure that may or may not be a rule violation (More specifically, trolling). Even if it’s not a rules violation, then at least the user made the effort to report something that may have been a possible violation. Something else worth noting, Even reporting something simple as trolling, perhaps there is more to the post/thread where the reported user in question was chastising/insulting another forum member, commenting off-topic in the thread, bickering, etc. that would lead to a different rules violation that the moderator can take action on. I have found this happens more often times than not as well.

https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en...he-forums-and-of-moderation-?mobile_site=true

 

[throAU]

I want some rules or principles on the forum clarified in regards to a specific kind of trolling.

So basically what you want is people to be allowed to post so long as their opinion is agreeable?

 

[Skeptical.me]

I want some rules or principles on the forum clarified in regards to a specific kind of trolling.

First of all I am not saying non-Apple users should not be permitted to post or anything of that sort. For example there are posters who either like and use older (even classic) Apple gear and are not enamoured of recent offerings, some who no longer use at all for reasons X, Y or Z but are still interested in tech in general. There are those who almost exclusively post in the alternatives to ios forum and also don't use Macs (as opposed to many users who have Macs and Android phones or vice-versa). A bit odd to me but fine.

No, I am talking about users who maybe at one time used Apple products and then moved to other brands/OS and continually troll criticizing current Apple users and Apple stuff with nary a bad word about the competition. A good example are several on this thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/goodbye-android.2124473/

Now perhaps the poster that started the thread was also trolling (they are a new MR member after all), but honestly some of the comments on the thread, certainly in the most recent pages are not very productive and I really wonder what these posters are trying to accomplish. Maybe I am wrong and these don't violate the rules but it is more a trend that I feel is not conducive to honest discussion and critique.

Honestly, I love tech, I'm obsessed with it, amazed by it. I mainly use macOS and iOS, but I also use QTS, Debian, Windows, and Ubuntu for various reasons. Tech is a tool, its not a world view, its not a political party, it's not a theology or religious dogma. Its a utility, and a fun one at that. Who cares about all these tiny differences between brands and os's. There's nothing I can think of more juvenile than this type of BS. Who ever does this type of trolling needs to get some friends, go to a bar, have a drink and get laid. Seriously there are better things to do than waste your time trolling macrumors forum

 

[decafjava]

So basically what you want is people to be allowed to post so long as their opinion is agreeable?

I am not sure I understand, if you mean have the same opinion no, I don't want people to agree with me or anyone else. But surely it is strange to see continually negative posts by anyone but certainly on this site posters who don't even use Apple stuff. Of course as others have pointed out continual trashing of the competition by the Apple worshippers is just as bad IMO.

 

[belvdr]

I am not sure I understand, if you mean have the same opinion no, I don't want people to agree with me or anyone else. But surely it is strange to see continually negative posts by anyone but certainly on this site posters who don't even use Apple stuff. Of course as others have pointed out continual trashing of the competition by the Apple worshippers is just as bad IMO.

Some people are consistently negative. It happens.

 

[Weaselboy]

I feel like I do this a little too much, I mean, just trying to make this place better, but quite a few reports result in "no action", so I feel like I'm just making work for the mods.

There is the feeling of “being a pain” for the mods. Also when I report something that seems a clear violation to me but is marked no action it’s a little dispiriting and can feel like I’m wasting my time, as well as theirs.

You are not causing a problem at all by submitting reports, and it really helps us a lot, so please continue.

 

[decafjava]

So it continues and some posters seem to be skimming under the rules not contributing anything positive to the forum but only negativity.

 

[Krayzkat]

I got accused of trolling because i don't like the iPhone excess/tennis name (if it's true). Does that count as trolling on here?

 

[torana355]

I know there are some posters that only want to start arguments and flame anything Apple but there are also a few people who only use Apple products that intentionally reply to certain posts to start said arguments. It goes both ways, ive had to put a few of then on ignore. What I don't understand is how people have such an emotional attachment to a brand or product. Why not think outside the box and embrace new technology regardless of the brand.

 

[OllyW]

I got accused of trolling because i don't like the iPhone excess/tennis name (if it's true). Does that count as trolling on here?

Not at all, everyone is entitled to give their feedback about Apple products and it doesn’t matter if it’s positive or negative. What matters is how that feedback is presented.

 

[Strider64]

I personally don't take offense to someone who posts Apple "Sucks" and goes on how their iMac or iPhone blew up on them. I can understand their frustration and angst after spending all that money only to have it go kaput on them.

However, what bugs me is the person who makes a snide comment and you never hear back or the reason they give for the comment. Now, that to me is trolling.

 

[decafjava]

I know there are some posters that only want to start arguments and flame anything Apple but there are also a few people who only use Apple products that intentionally reply to certain posts to start said arguments. It goes both ways, ive had to put a few of then on ignore. What I don't understand is how people have such an emotional attachment to a brand or product. Why not think outside the box and embrace new technology regardless of the brand.

My point is the non user trollers poison the atmosphere here IMHO. I can learn from intelligent criticism but when the song sheet doesn’t change it gets tiresome. Yes I agree from both sides but I get the impression the haters are more numerous.