Trolling by non-Apple users

Discussion in 'Site and Forum Feedback' started by decafjava, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

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    #101
    As @SandboxGeneral mentions, you have this completely wrong. In the time I have been a moderator I have never once been told to do anything or not do anything because it would impact page views or revenue. Not one time.

    If someone is just posting "Apple sucks" over and over, particularly in news threads, that is trolling and we would moderate it if we see it. If you see posts like that, please report them to get our attention.
     
  2. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030

    Ulenspiegel

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    #102
    This thread started by a one-day member is a typical example of (latent, clever) trolling which is gaining momentum all over the place in MR.
    The applicable Forum Rule:
    I wonder how many Apple users are trolling in Android Central.
     
  3. Weaselboy Moderator

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    #103
    I see nothing wrong at all with that thread. The person just switched from Android to an iPhone and is posting about differences he noticed and is asking for feedback. What is the issue here?

     
  4. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030

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    #104
    Are you really that naive, Weaselboy?
     
  5. Weaselboy Moderator

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    #105
    I'm honestly not seeing a problem there. If you can articulate what the problem is, I'd be glad to hear it.

    These trolling posts are about context and post history that shows intent, and in this case neither points to trolling that I can see.
     
  6. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030

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    #106
    I can't help you if you don't see the obvious, the latent trolling ("Siri just sucks"; "iMessage considered the Holy Grail of messaging platforms but I can't stand it"; "ICloud photo search function sucks compared to Google photos"; "Overall I guess I'm just an Android person. Specifically Samsung" etc.).

    Give it a thought, why there are no posts in the thread mentioned. The reason is simple, we are sick and tired of trolling.

    Last but not least, do you really think that an admittedly "Android person, specifically Samsung" genuinely requested helpful hints and tips to questions he considered ab ovo as "sucks" and "I can't stand it"?
     
  7. Weaselboy Moderator

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    #107
    Yes, I do because of the context provided by their other posts like this one.

    ... and this one where they thank someone for explaining how to share a file/image in iOS.

    Then this I mentioned earlier where the person asked for tips or help addressing any of their complaints.

     
  8. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030

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    #108

    Your answer shows that such discussions are futile.
     
  9. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #109
    So while that can be interpreted as having something nefarious behind it, it can just as easily be interpreted as not having something conspiratorial to it. Seems like in a scenario like that interpretations are then mostly based on the biases (conscious or otherwise) that someone would have reading something into things, one way or another.
     
  10. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030

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    #110
    You at least see in this problem an alternative.
     
  11. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #111
    I think others can see the alternative too, but it being a mere possibility doesn't give it enough weight until there's something actually truly pointing that way or at least enough of a variety of things that loosely point that way but as a collection tip the scale just enough overall.
     
  12. Ulenspiegel, Oct 28, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018

    Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030

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    #112
    Unfortunately, I have to disagree referring to posts #103, #105 and #107.

    Post #106 containes what is "truly or loosely pointing that way" in case of a one-day member who admits to be an "Android person, specifically Samsung" in his very first thread asking for "helpful hints" whilst stating: "Siri just sucks"; "iMessage considered the Holy Grail of messaging platforms but I can't stand it"; "ICloud photo search function sucks compared to Google photos"; etc.).
     
  13. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #113
    Reading in some biases into it, it can be taken that way. Doing it without a bias it doesn't seem like there's enough there on its own to really add up to that, given that without much else it can be taken at just face value without coming off unbelievable or conspiratorial.
     
  14. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030

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    #114
    I guess it is "conspiratorial" that the one-day member's user name is galaxycat, who uses a Galaxy S9+, admits to be an "Android person, specifically Samsung" and starts a thread where under pretext of seeking "helpful hints" states that "Siri just sucks"; "iMessage considered the Holy Grail of messaging platforms but I can't stand it"; "ICloud photo search function sucks compared to Google photos"?
     
  15. C DM, Oct 28, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018

    C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #115
    Can certainly be taken as circumstantially suspicious, but that's likely not quite enough to make an actual call one way or another in terms of taking some sort of an action. Especially given that it can certainly be taken essentially at face value too without coming off as being something unbelievable or even improbable.
     
  16. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030

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    #116
    We are not talking about taking action. As a first step it would suffice to acknowledge an obvious phenomenon as per the title of the thread.
    This discussion proves how smart trolling has become.
     
  17. C DM, Oct 28, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018

    C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #117
    It shows that it can certainly be that, but it doesn't prove that it is, and that's kind of the main point. It might very well be an example of it, or might very well not be. And we are ultimately taking about action being taken when we are discussing it all in the context of moderation.

    That is to say that often enough it can be somewhat easy to jump to a conclusion of one type or another and have pieces arranged in a way that support it, but often enough that on its own isn't enough to actually make that conclusion be the actual reality without there being more to it that would in turn warrant some action. It's all at least somewhat more complex even if it sounds like it might not or should not be.
     
  18. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030

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    #118
    That is relative.
    To you it does not prove it. For me, it does, seeing dozens of such troll-threads, resulting in useless clashes.
    Anyway, there is no sense wasting each others time on this issue.
    We see it differently.
     
  19. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #119
    And that is basically what underscores it, the whole part that it can be seen differently and thus it being something that isn't just simplistic and straightforward (even though it could be if conclusions are jumped to, do example) when it comes to moderation.
     
  20. bunnspecial macrumors 603

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    #120
    Funny thing...

    There's a non-Apple thread on this site where I sometimes post where I've had post removed under the guise of trolling. Those posts were in direct response for someone who RELENTLESSLY dominates the conversation on that thread with inane comments that actually contribute nothing other than posting walls of copy and paste text, and I've been cited for trolling for disagreeing with or even questioning what that poster was trying to say.

    At the same time, I've reported that and other posters for deliberately being argumentative and confrontational, only to have "no action taken."

    At times, I feel like there's a HUGE discrepancy in how the moderators enforce the rules and that some posters are "sacred"...the one I'm thinking of is an extremely high volume poster who essentially has two modes-either arguing(and directly attacking other members in response-much more directly than the relatively tame things I've had posted) or just posting plain bad information in walls of text that are ignored.

    I see things like that as a bigger issue than perceived "trolling"-something that I seem to have been cited for because-in many cases-I asked someone follow-up questions that were "perceived" to get more information before proceeding to explain exactly why I disagreed...

    That's just one person here, though...and apparently posters with nearly 25,000 posts(in a short period of time) have more pull than others do...

    (and I can virtually guarantee that this post will be deleted)
     
  21. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030

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    #121
    The existance of this thread "Trolling by non-Apple users" and many others prove that trolling is significantly present in MR.
    Simplistic, too tolerant approach to trolling won't make this place any better for Apple users.
     
  22. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #122
    It's definitely present here and pretty much everywhere online basically. At the same time, it certainly doesn't mean that any post that can simply be seen as such as one possibility is actually it though just on the virtue of that one possible interpretation.
     
  23. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030

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    #123
    Interpretations differ.
    Interestingly the thread in question still has no posts at all. Seems I am not the only one with my view.
     
  24. ixxx69 macrumors 65816

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    #124
    I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt as much as possible, but if the site admins don't direct you to interpret the rules on trolling in the manner you do, then what you're saying is that the way you moderate the forums is up to you.

    So, per your preference, you've decided that posters who endlessly bash Apple and participate almost exclusively with the intention of trolling for arguments, aren't trolls and that is the way you want this forum to be. In the end, same difference. We already see the outcome... the forum will continue to devolve into Apple haters as people with better things to do than argue with trolls stop participating... and you're left with a forum of trolls with a scattering of those willing to keep them fed.

    It's either that or it's just intentional - I sometimes think they try to be intentionally obtuse to the point you get frustrated and call them idiots and then they have reason to ban you.

    While I agree that the post you cited is "trolling", it really wasn't the best example - there are far more blatant examples, and the biggest issue for most of us are the repeat offenders, not first-time posters. This discrepancy is what the mods will always point to - one person's troll is another person's completely reasonable criticism. We appear to disagree on pretty much everything outside of this thread, and I've seen you "like" posts of infamous trollers many times. That's why I focus on quantity of trolling. You can bash Apple. Heck, I bash Apple about plenty of stuff. It's the endless bashing on repeat from the same cast of characters that is such blatant trolling.
     
  25. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #125
    But the same thing applies there as well--a particular interpretation as to why the thread doesn't have any posts, which is certainly a possibility, yet definitely isn't the only or even necessarily the most likely interpretation of it all.
     

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