Really? I can't say I've come across much of anything like that over the years.MacRumors has been known for many years to be one of the most toxic Mac forum sites around
Really? I can't say I've come across much of anything like that over the years.MacRumors has been known for many years to be one of the most toxic Mac forum sites around
WIth the new hardware announcements, the trolls have all come out of the woodwork
- I think it's finally time we stop being used as sheep
- Will people be self-conscious using the iPhone XR in public knowing it’s the cheap model?
- 1 hour and a half on the max? Really?
- The case for the Xr LCD being superior to OLED
- Has Anyone Now Decided NOT To Buy Xs/Xs Max After Keynote?
- im filing consumer case on apple for iphone x, you should do too, or apple will play your money
- SKIP buying wait Next Year ( thread )
- Too big, too heavy, too thick
- iPhone 8S/9 design?
- Where is the small petite sized phone?
- Apple just gave us all the finger!
Actually, I see it as part of a wider issue with the tone and content of many of the posts (and threads) on a forum such as this and the manner in which online debate is conducted in general.
It seems that it is not enough to have an opinion but that one must express it vehemently, forcefully, adamantly, and sneer with corrosive contempt at the sheer unspeakable stupidity of anyone who may dare to disagree with you.
Re tech, it goes both ways: Those who love Apple (the adulation evident in the "what would Steve think?" threads - which drive me bonkers, - and the monumental intolerance of those who like and have accepted a tech development but who insist on sneering at those who do not), are every bit as trying as the stuff posted by some who simply cannot stand Apple.
Then, there are those who detest Apple, who have always disliked the company, and there are those who have fallen out of love with the company in recent years who used to be passionately loyal customers, or those who merely dislike the direction the company and its products have taken in recent years.
For both those who love Apple and those who don't, I suspect that some element of the emotional intensity and ferocity of their posts comes from the fact that they may see possession (or non-possession) of these products and devices as an extension of their sense of identity and who they think they are and how they define themselves.
Thus, an attack on the company becomes a personal attack on them.
For my part, I am not enamoured at the intensity of the intolerance and ferocious feelings as expressed on some of these threads; I think life (and technology) is a considerably more nuanced than that, and it would be nice to see this reflected occasionally.
Directly calling another member a sheep would of course be name calling as you said, and so would calling others in a thread sheep. But sometimes these comments are worded in a way that it is not clear that is the case.
https://forums.macrumors.com/misc/contact/
Used SCO Xenix ported to IBM PC circa 1982, PlexusP40 minicomputer, as well as Seikosha-Epson boxes we were developing Oasis 8/16 on. I"m Cook's age, little younger than the two founding Steve's and I didn't get into computer until college, not a 'geek' I gues, was pre-med.Sometimes MacRumors can be a bit of an echo chamber. Kind of like Monty Python's The Argument Clinic. The internet offers a anonymity that gives "keyboard courage". I feel that teens (and many others) don't stop to think who is on the other end of the conversation and end up saying things that they would never say to my face.
To MacRumors users, ejb190 is a name, an avatar, an infrequent poster. But there's a person behind that picture. I've been around here longer than most, used Macs longer than many members have been alive, and have a wealth of experience on a host of topics. So while I would hope that the trolls would grow up and take advantage of the treasurer-trove of member knowledge, I'm old enough to know that the only one I can control is myself. I can choose to exhaust myself by engaging with trolls or ignore them knowing that I'm dealing with closed-minded children hiding behind the anonymity of the internet.
There are MacRumors members that if people knew who they were, they'd be PAYING them for the expertise that they offer here for free. And that is part of why I read far more than I post.
1985? A 33 year old commercial is used to prove a point? Holy Cow, I wonder if anything has changed in 33 years.I didn't click on these apparent links to thread titles? However, the 1st seems fine to me, if the poster is saying we are all being used as sheep. It's an opinion that does not seem to be the intent to insult...least that is how I *chose* to see it. Unfortunately intent is very difficult to prove in legal system with regards to fraud, kind of needs to be full on 'smoking gun' type evidence, anything else is mostly, if not all subjective to the moderators...just sayin ;p
Now this may get me banned, but shouldn't MR as a site be irrelevant and moot based on those definitions of "sheep".
Reason I say that, is Apple itself (not trying to be 'negative' lol) is the ultimate troll company. Need proof of their sheep trolling. Exhibit 1:
Apple's superbowl commercial. I guess users cannot use that ad in a reply, because to imply that anyone is sheepishly influenced by group think/advertising...makes the contender a troll? Suppose if you want to define it as so.
What I surely would like of mod team is if they would take the time, and post up what they consider excellent examples of offending content. <that would be most helpful to get a 'sense' of where the mod team wants to control content.
Steve was such a force, you cannot simply remove his DNA on Apple, so expect that from the passionate and general complainers. Sure it does no good to speculate blindly 'what would Steve do', 'what would Jesus say'...but everyone does that. They actuall want to ban the usage of that phrase on Appleinsider, because it so bothers some of the Admn/mods. Shall that be the case here also? I think it is far more useful for ppl to post up those types of comments, with links to quotes by Steve himself, videos of him expressing his opinions; to see if those thoughts are valid to the discussion of today/tomorrow. 2nd hand quotes from sources such as Tim Cook, or others that interviewed or knew Jobs, are helpful, but still those also are opinions.
Used SCO Xenix ported to IBM PC circa 1982, PlexusP40 minicomputer, as well as Seikosha-Epson boxes we were developing Oasis 8/16 on. I"m Cook's age, little younger than the two founding Steve's and I didn't get into computer until college, not a 'geek' I gues, was pre-med.
There was another post on MR where the member mentioned they had used Apple's since 1980 orig AppleII. My supervisor in 1984 where I worked, when I went to her home, she showed me how she had an old AppleII that she was letting her 6yr old daughter learn to use...so which my parents would have the same insight, they refused to buy me a $1500 IBM clone in '82, when all my college classmates had their parents buying them. My parents were of the attitude, that if I wanted something so expensive, I needed to work and pay for it myself. The boss of the company I was working at, a young professor who left his current university job, had me doing data entry at his home, for a consulting job, on an old Altos running CP/M, dual 8in drive floppy>little did I know that clunky box cost $9,000. Can I do a super negative thread somewhere here, about how I hated the orig IBM PC we had at work, running DOS 3.0? with that idiotic C: drive, totally out of order, why oh why, not A: drive?
I haven't seen too many members that have that expertise, I see many that claim to be knowable, but are in fact less than they would have you believe, and when I can point that out, sometimes I do, with links to sources that I think are more correct/knowledgeable ...much to the chagrin of those who follow blindly the 'experts' here and on other forums, on other tech sites.
The whole contention about what people who are not 'pro' 'powerusers' and as such do not "need" more than X amount of RAM is my #1 peeve, PCworld reviewers are really guilty there. They talk the talk, but apparently have never used Safari of any other browser with more than a couple of tabs open, and gone to a site like Motortrend.com, which in know way should every try to consume nearly 8GB of RAM for that single process, but it does...I posted up a screenshot showing it does. "unless you have many open tabs"< BS, I had less than 6tabs open when I took a look at Activity Monitor and was stunned to see Motortrend.com using nearly all of my 8GB installed RAM, which cannot be upgraded. 16GB is not enough to do teenage/non-pro stuff, like surfin the net.
Ya, like the other poster said, there is this amazing filter, and it's a totally free app...called your brain. I use it as the best 'filter' there is...don't feed the trolls, move along to the next post, resist the urge. Don't need any big boy pants, just simple common sense, step away from the keyboard...easier said than done I suppose.
We are all sheep being lead to slaughter, in one way or another...don't get so excited about that...soon your life will be over, death is the great equalizer none of use escape from. Social network and forums are not really all that important..ppl are dying & suffering from hunger and human strife all over the world, perspective.
I came upon this site/post when searching on sheep to slaughter, before replying here. Thought this was really good insight, not that I agree with 'the order' 'man up' 'be a (family)man' type analogies.
https://www.orderofman.com/like-sheep-slaughter/
"
What do I mean by this when I say “Like sheep to the slaughter?”
What I mean is that I think there is a tendency for men and women in society today to put the blindfold on, to blindly follow other people, to go with the status-quo, and to do what everyone else is doing.
There’s a lot of reason we do this but at the end of the day, the pack or herd mentality is designed to keep us safe and alive. It’s been programmed into us since the dawn of man – that if we stick together we’ll survive.
"
But is it an insult to say we have blinders on...just look at every day life now, the politics of division are everywhere, and ppl are quite factually acting like sheep in constantly promoting so called 'truth', when it is simply opinion. Use your brain filter, you're going to have to do that the rest of your life anyway, not just on forums.
Ban all Apple users I say, we are all lemmings/sheep as could be seen in the famous Apple commercial, Guess it comes down to intent again, but if you are trying to get ppl to stop simply repeating constant drone of the 'experts' , those you don't need more RAM...cause only a very limited amount of Apple users will ever really need it<<<that's how the group think/lemming mentality starts.
yah, yah. I no, TL;DR ...can't laugh, poke fun at yourself or others...what is life then?
It does prove the point Apple has changed. You have to admit that it's rather ironic comparing what they were against then is what they have now.1985? A 33 year old commercial is used to prove a point? Holy Cow, I wonder if anything has changed in 33 years.
I’ve reported numerous posts all the time over several years. Ones that have clearly violated the rules, particularly the frivolous rules. The rules have always been unevenly applied. There are people here who clearly want to antagonize Apple users. They argue about anything.
I think you may be making the incorrect assumption that we see all these posts that violate the rules. There are so many posts each day, it is not possible for us to see even a fraction of them, so we rely heavily on member reports. If you see a post that violates the rules, please help us by reporting it.
Then if after that, if you see inconsistency in the way those reports are handled, you can bring it to the attention of the admins by using the contact us link and they will review.
Can't say why of course, but moderation is just getting worse. Some of the jokes they let some people get away with are insanely offensive and then they just get all worked up over little things.....there is no standard whatsoever on this site. Its sad since the rest of the site is better than any other apple site I've seen so I stay here.No one is claiming you see every single post. Stop being silly. But I have been there, done that. I’ve reported numerous posts all the time over several years. Ones that have clearly violated the rules, particularly the frivolous rules. The rules have always been unevenly applied. There are people here who clearly want to antagonize Apple users. They argue about anything.
This thread wouldn’t even exist if more aggressive moderation was taking place against trolls and frivolous posters. I didn’t start this thread so I’m obviously not the only person who believes this . But I do have to strongly agree. Reporting doesn’t always make a difference. Even reporting inconsistency has not helped. It is still a major problem here.
Think about that for a moment before slapping yourself on the back again.
Read any article on the front page, iPhone forum, or PRSI and you’ll run into it. There are other communities that specifically call out MacRumors toxicity when trying to curb negativity in their own forums.Really? I can't say I've come across much of anything like that over the years.
Not sure that makes it truly widely known and severly toxic, but, sure, there's all that (with PRSI being a whole separate thing of its own really).Read any article on the front page, iPhone forum, or PRSI and you’ll run into it. There are other communities that specifically call out MacRumors toxicity when trying to curb negativity in their own forums.
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5omss5/its_high_time_we_have_a_fireside_chat_with/
Reading part of that reddit thread above makes me appreciate even more the work that goes on here to keep the place livable for all of us. As for the down vote button, in retrospect, I think eliminating that button was a smart move.Read any article on the front page, iPhone forum, or PRSI and you’ll run into it. There are other communities that specifically call out MacRumors toxicity when trying to curb negativity in their own forums.
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5omss5/its_high_time_we_have_a_fireside_chat_with/
Looking back on that though, it was pretty bold of Apple with this entire Microsoft/Apple war thing. However, that does not translate into the same type of fun in 2018 by posters using generalized, negative stereotypical, statements to troll customers who like/buy iphones.It does prove the point Apple has changed. You have to admit that it's rather ironic comparing what they were against then is what they have now.
I posted in that thread and I have lost my temper on more than one occasion on this forum, but it’s just getting a bit too much.
I’m on a Mac forum, using a Mac and iPhone in apples ecosystem and it’s a constant bombardment of rage against apple, the Mac, the iPhone, and it’s “sheep” users.
Usually by the same posters.
So basically let the people just litter the streets as long as they aren't actually hitting someone with the litter?I am 100% against suppression of free speech. Even if I disagree with it. I think part of the problem is that today's generation needs to grow a thicker skin. They are too triggered by just about everything and seem "fragile". So let the trolls come and waste their time, as long as they don't threaten or viciously attack others. The last thing we need are moderators who "coddle" crybabies. Toughen Up!!!
My experience as well, summed up nicely. I'd add my dislike of thread titles that troll rather than just indicating the topic or problem that the original post will supposedly address. In my opinion a provocative thread title plus a little snark in an original post will provoke some irritated responses... probably the point of the thread title anyway, and then it's off to flame wars between fanboyz and haterz.
Meanwhile the person who drops into a forum because of a legit problem with a specific model of gear has to wade through pages of "... and yo mama..."
Or, more likely, one just abandons scanning the thread and fires up a search engine to inquire about a "problem with [whatever] on new Apple [whatever]."
Lately when I do that sort of search of the web first, if I do have an issue with some new Apple gear, I've noticed I don't even get as many hits on MacRumors threads so often any more as I did in the past. I think that discovery may support my objection to thread titles here that aim to be provocative rather than helpful. That's too bad, because there are a lot of helpful posts in some threads here about new gear, but too many of them live under snarky thread titles that few serious users might bother wading into when they're looking to resolve an issue.
Maybe we should stop shrugging and start bothering to report flamebait thread titles in gear threads. Otherwise it would seem there's no bottom to the slippery slope trolls love to take advantage of when they see they can get away with it.
I am 100% against suppression of free speech. Even if I disagree with it. I think part of the problem is that today's generation needs to grow a thicker skin. They are too triggered by just about everything and seem "fragile". So let the trolls come and waste their time, as long as they don't threaten or viciously attack others. The last thing we need are moderators who "coddle" crybabies. Toughen Up!!!
It’s quite tiresome in and of itself.
So basically let the people just litter the streets as long as they aren't actually hitting someone with the litter?
Plenty of room between one extreme and the other.Living in a sterile pristine world has it's cost. And that cost is a slippery slope when it comes to censorship.
And if that expression of free speech involves deliberately offending and insulting others, do you still favour that?
Often, it is not an expression of "disagreement" that gives rise to testy and intemperate threads, rather, it is the deliberate baiting or insulting or offending of others.
Myself, I think "free speech" should be tempered with a bit of respect, - and I have no quarrel with systems that require that this be the case.
Not sure that makes it truly widely known and severly toxic, but, sure, there's all that (with PRSI being a whole separate thing of its own really).
There’s a lot of crybabies here.I am 100% against suppression of free speech. Even if I disagree with it. I think part of the problem is that today's generation needs to grow a thicker skin. They are too triggered by just about everything and seem "fragile". So let the trolls come and waste their time, as long as they don't threaten or viciously attack others. The last thing we need are moderators who "coddle" crybabies. Toughen Up!!!
That is exactly why I put people on ignore. It’s about mindsets, the consciousness. Internet is a reflection of everything that circulates in the world. Different awareness levels.I don't put anybody on ignore, because my thinking, is I'm responding to the internet, not one person.
Unfortunately, nothing is going to change. The moderators in this thread are being completely disingenuous, or lack the objectivity and perspective that would typically be expected of a moderator.I want some rules or principles on the forum clarified in regards to a specific kind of trolling.
First of all I am not saying non-Apple users should not be permitted to post or anything of that sort. For example there are posters who either like and use older (even classic) Apple gear and are not enamoured of recent offerings, some who no longer use at all for reasons X, Y or Z but are still interested in tech in general. There are those who almost exclusively post in the alternatives to ios forum and also don't use Macs (as opposed to many users who have Macs and Android phones or vice-versa). A bit odd to me but fine.
No, I am talking about users who maybe at one time used Apple products and then moved to other brands/OS and continually troll criticizing current Apple users and Apple stuff with nary a bad word about the competition. A good example are several on this thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/goodbye-android.2124473/
Now perhaps the poster that started the thread was also trolling (they are a new MR member after all), but honestly some of the comments on the thread, certainly in the most recent pages are not very productive and I really wonder what these posters are trying to accomplish. Maybe I am wrong and these don't violate the rules but it is more a trend that I feel is not conducive to honest discussion and critique.