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Once upon a time, every morning in class, we would stand, put our hands on our hearts, and say the Pledge of Allegiance. Before it was hijacked by the German National Socialist Party in the early 1930s, with the words "and to the Republic," the Students would throw the hand that was over their hearts out to the flag hanging in the class palm up to salute the flag. I'll take "He who must not be named," throwing his heart out and showing off his children to somebody else, showing off his trophy wife.

A lovely story

If that's something Elon was doing, he should say so

All the contextual data we have about him in the rest of his life and dealings, however, would indicate some very fascist and/or Nazi leaning tendencies and make his Nazi salutes pretty unsurprising actually (while still being abhorrent of course)

It's a little odd to me how much energy some are spending to come up with "some other reason he was doing something that looks just like the Nazi salute"
 
I know a fascist salute when I see one. I don't know why he got so excited he felt the need to throw up a fascist salute, and frankly don't really care. But I'm not going to get gaslit into being told I didn't see what I saw.
Completely agree.

I don‘t care if Musk tried to emulate a Roman salute, Nazi salute or the Terran Empire salute from Star Trek. I also don‘t know what mental „condition“ he has, under the influence of what substance he was or to which degree he can control himself and his movements.

But I, too, know a fascist salute when I see one.
That certainly can‘t be lost on someone like Musk.
And neither is it on „certain“ parts of his audience.
 
musk could clear this right up by releasing a statement denouncing nazis and white supremacy. very very casy things to denounce. but he won't, and that tells us everything we need to know.

Also
Really? It tells us all we need to know? What might that be, that Elon is a Nazi? How about taking a step back for perspective, and applying some common sense? Elon is not a Nazi and obviously didn't mean to perform a Nazi salute. Taken out of context, with that blue and white background, the suit with the narrow black tie, sure it looks Nazi as ****. I'll admit it. But we don't have to do that. We know enough about Elon and his values and life's work to know the guy is not a Nazi.

Democrats-give-Nazi-salute-fact-check.jpg copy.jpg
 
Completely agree.

I don‘t care if Musk tried to emulate a Roman salute, Nazi salute or the Terran Empire salute from Star Trek. I also don‘t know what mental „condition“ he has, under the influence of what substance he was or to which degree he can control himself and his movements.

But I, too, know a fascist salute when I see one.
And that‘s certainly not lost on someone like Musk.

Isn't it odd how, with his defenders, if we talk about Tesla or SpaceX or X or PayPal ... he's a brilliant mastermind engineer and business person. A wizard of our time

..but when he goes Nazi ... "he didn't know what he was doing" .. "he's on the spectrum" ... "it must have been something else" .. "he was on drugs" ... "all I know is that it WAS NOT a Nazi salute, despite looking exactly like one... twice"
 
Well on that we can agree.

Well, since Rolling Stone is pretty left-wing, yes that reporting does not surprise me. I bet you can pull up a clip from The View with Whoopie talking about how traumatized she was by it. Unfortunately most of what we call news is just propaganda from one side or the other. Neither side is trustworthy at this point. What I do is watch the entire thing and then make a decision on my own as to what it looks like to me. I don’t depend on some news commentator to tell me what I just saw.
 
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How about taking a step back for perspective, and applying some common sense?
How about, „for perspective“, not resorting to carefully selected (or crafted?) split-second still images when making comparisons of (moving) gestures?

Edit: though to be fair, not wanting to take Musks salute gestures out of the context of his speech today either:
the guy definitely seemed to be „on something“ or having an „episode“ to me.
 
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How about, „for perspective“, not resorting to carefully selected (or crafted?) split-second still images when making comparisons of (moving) gestures?
Your missing the point. I'm not saying that the politicians in the image are Nazis. It's simply to illustrate how easy it is to take out of context. The only thing disingenuous is calling Elon a Nazi despite him obviously not being a Nazi.
 
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the guy definitely seemed to be „on something“ or having an „episode“ to me.

Sounds like someone who shouldn't be leading companies and certainly nowhere near the White House

Just as an aside ... why would being "on something" or "having an episode" lead one to pull out the Nazi salute specifically? (and twice)

I've been all manner of hammered and never once has something like that ever come across my mind nor manifested itself through my behavior
 
The only thing disingenuous is calling Elon a Nazi despite him obviously not being a Nazi.
I agree he’s not.
He’s merely emboldening them (and the far-right).

PS: I don‘t know about America… but in Europe, even if this (the gesture) is a thing that any decent politician would at least apologise for having got „carried away“.
 
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Not Musk, not Ellison. Wasn't O'Leary and 'Project Liberty' working on their own offer?
 
I agree he’s not.
He’s merely emboldening them (and the far-right).
How is he doing that? Surely your not referring to Republicans in the US as far-right? I know that Musk has issued remarks in support of AfD in Germany. AfD is sometimes characterized as far-right although the party itself rejects that label. Regardless Musks political remarks are usually issue-specific rather than tied to a particular ideology or party.

But Musk has gone on countless long-form interviews and explained in-depth his political beliefs and values. This whole nazi handgesture thing is such a nothing burger. It's just clickbait distracting from the real issues.
 
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Well, since Rolling Stone is pretty left-wing, yes that reporting does not surprise me. I bet you can pull up a clip from The View with Whoopie talking about how traumatized she was by it. Unfortunately most of what we call news is just propaganda from one side or the other. Neither side is trustworthy at this point. What I do is watch the entire thing and then make a decision on my own as to what it looks like to me. I don’t depend on some news commentator to tell me what I just saw.
I mean, the article is mostly quotes on X from actual neo-nazis.

You sure about that? Here, in case you missed it...

View attachment 2474922
Again, taking a clip of someone waving, or gesturing that something is high and making it into an out-of-context still photo is not the same thing as doing a full on Nazi salute twice on camera.

Over the past two years Elon has surrounded himself with ultra right wingers on X, retweeted holocaust deniers, had to go on an apology tour to Israel and Auschwitz for antisemitic tweets, is perhaps the most famous backer of a politician promising to put millions of people in camps, has a bunch of neonazis posting about how awesome it is he’s doing white power things, backing an extreme far-right party in Germany that has leaders who use Nazi slogans, and over 48 hours after doing what looks to a whole heck of a lot of people like the Hitlergruß still hasn’t apologized.

So when you take all of that together (and that’s just a snapshot), is it really so strange to you that some people might be a little concerned the world’s richest man is at least fascist-curious?
 
Your missing the point. I'm not saying that the politicians in the image are Nazis. It's simply to illustrate how easy it is to take out of context. The only thing disingenuous is calling Elon a Nazi despite him obviously not being a Nazi.
It's not so obvious to me that Elon is not a Nazi. There is a strong current of white supremacist tendency among Trump's supporters. Trump himself says a lot of things that can be interpreted as white supremacist, like immigrants are poisoning the blood of the country. So in my opinion, it's reasonable to suspect anyone who supports Trump of having white supremacist positions. I'm not saying all Trump supporters are white supremacists, but if you are a Trump supporter, and you do something that feels white supremacist-ish, you don't get a benefit of doubt from me. And there's a lot of commonality between white supremacy and Nazi ideology. So Elon, a Trump supporter, doing something that looks very similar to a Nazi salute.... I won't conclude from this that Elon is a Nazi, but it's one more step toward deepening my suspicions about him.
 
I mean, the article is mostly quotes on X from actual neo-nazis.
Oh, it’s basically about quotes from Nazis on social media? Well shoot, why didn’t you say so. With such a credible source how could I not trust the article…

Wait you were serious thinking that’s somehow it’s a good thing that Nazis gave their opinion on something?

Sorry but not only do I dislike Nazis or wannabe Nazis. I am not going to take anything they say is worthy of even me reading it. There’s enough antisemitism and hate coming from the left that I don’t need additional from some trash Nazi people. I make it a point to avoid any form of racist or hateful people.
 
Once upon a time, every morning in class, we would stand, put our hands on our hearts, and say the Pledge of Allegiance. Before it was hijacked by the German National Socialist Party in the early 1930s, with the words "and to the Republic," the Students would throw the hand that was over their hearts out to the flag hanging in the class palm up to salute the flag. I'll take "He who must not be named," throwing his heart out and showing off his children to somebody else, showing off his trophy wife.
It’s unfortunate that such despicable people even existed. It’s like the swastika was around way before them, but now it’s permanently stained with that evil. The only good thing that came from it as people will never forget and hopefully never allow something like that to ever happen again.
 
It's not so obvious to me that Elon is not a Nazi. There is a strong current of white supremacist tendency among Trump's supporters. Trump himself says a lot of things that can be interpreted as white supremacist, like immigrants are poisoning the blood of the country. So in my opinion, it's reasonable to suspect anyone who supports Trump of having white supremacist positions. I'm not saying all Trump supporters are white supremacists, but if you are a Trump supporter, and you do something that feels white supremacist-ish, you don't get a benefit of doubt from me. And there's a lot of commonality between white supremacy and Nazi ideology. So Elon, a Trump supporter, doing something that looks very similar to a Nazi salute.... I won't conclude from this that Elon is a Nazi, but it's one more step toward deepening my suspicions about him.
I would like sources on this please. Where is direct evidence that Elon said these things. It would help when I argue this.
 
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Really? It tells us all we need to know? What might that be, that Elon is a Nazi? How about taking a step back for perspective, and applying some common sense? Elon is not a Nazi and obviously didn't mean to perform a Nazi salute. Taken out of context, with that blue and white background, the suit with the narrow black tie, sure it looks Nazi as ****. I'll admit it. But we don't have to do that. We know enough about Elon and his values and life's work to know the guy is not a Nazi.

View attachment 2474918



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There is literally video of this. He did it twice on camera. For crying out loud just drop it. There is no taken out of context, it's on freaking video. All the gaslighting doesn't change that. You are literally telling everyone to ignore what they saw. Video, not some screen shot taken out of context but video.
 
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