UK Judge Rules Apple Must Publish Notices Acknowledging Samsung Did Not Copy iPad

[KnightWRX]

I was going to say is this Engadget.com? Or people are getting paid good dough by poor little Sansung to come here and defend them.

[...]

I hate whe people create strawmans so they can knock them down.

These 2 statements... fascinating.

As for the current case, maybe you should read the ruling to understand the Judge's basis for the order ? Apple did post about Samsung on their website, they post all their lawsuit complaints on it. I linked to the California complaint a few pages back where Apple uses very bold words like "slavishly copies".

And just reading this forum, you can see how Samsung's reputation is hurt, everyone is 100% convinced they copied, yet no one can ever say what was copied with certainty, just vague "Well they did, just look at it". Sorry, I'm not seeing it.

 

[samcraig]

Who here is suggesting Apple invented the tablet or smartphone? I hate whe people create strawmans so they can knock them down.

I know the thread is long. Maybe you've missed it. Along with countless other threads on this forum which make the assertions.

I dislike when people have reading comprehension issues and/or post their thoughts 20 pages in without considering what has already been discussed, rebuffed, etc - but I learn to deal with it.

 

[Rogifan]

Most of what I see is people saying that Apple did not invent the tablet. Nor did they invent the smartphone. Both of which are true.

And who is saying otherwise? I wouldn't mistake an iPad for a PC tablet from the early 00's. Or an iPhone for an LG Prada. Doesn't mean I think Apple created the tablet or smartphone.

----------

I know the thread is long. Maybe you've missed it. Along with countless other threads on this forum which make the assertions.

I dislike when people have reading comprehension issues and/or post their thoughts 20 pages in without considering what has already been discussed, rebuffed, etc - but I learn to deal with it.

I've read this entire thread. Who exactly said Apple INVENTED the tablet? I see this all the time on tech sites....Apple didn't invent the wedge shape or rounded corners....who said they did?!? I don't look at an iphone and think LG Prada or at an ipad and think Compaq PC tablet, so I guess that means I have bad eyesight or am a delusional fanboy who thinks Apple invented the tablet and smartphone.

 

[LordVic]

And who is saying otherwise? I wouldn't mistake an iPad for a PC tablet from the early 00's. Or an iPhone for an LG Prada. Doesn't mean I think Apple created the tablet or smartphone.

you clearly have not actually read this thread in most of it's entirety.

There are plenty of people who have made the bogus claim that apple invented the concept of the tablet and that every single part of the ipad was their invention or at leaset innovation. The one that makes me laugh the most are the individuals who absolutely rail on the competitors for "copying" or borrowing elements of design, but refuse to accept or aknowledge that Apple has borrowed enough of it's designs and technology along the way. (Heck the original Apple was made from stolen parts from Xerox!)

After being constantly knocked down from that with facts, the last standing argument is "well, prior tablets had stylus!"

I'm an apple user. I have, and do own apple products (1st gen ipod, 3rd gen ipod, 5th gen ipod, 1st gen touch, ipad2, Macbook Air as well as multitude of accessories).

Just like every other product I own I am going to be critical of them if they do something that I perceive to be inaccurate or poor for business. I will never claim apple didn't innovate. The iPad virtually busted the tablet market open. But Apple has not shown a whole lot of innovation in the last year or two. The iphone 4 was the last time they released something to market that wasn't just a marginal increase.

Instead of new products that are completely innovative, we're getting refreshes, and apple throwing lawsuits around. They've gone after companies with hundreds of patents in their filings hoping that at least one sticks, and screaming (waving money) for preliminary injunctions to stop their competitors from making any sales.

as a user of Apple products, this is a bad sign! if the company is working on things that nobody else has, or seen before, they shouldn't be fearing the 'copycats'. But these lawsuits constantly are showing they do fear them, which leads me to believe that without Jobs at the helm, Apple is rudderless and can't come up with anything.

so For everyone saying "this is an apple community site", yes it is. We're discussing apple. The Good and the bad. if you believe everything apple does is 100% amazing and perfect, Maybe there are better sites for you that encourage rampant ignorance and fanboyism

 

[blackburn]

I dunno which settings he's talking about since tablets run the stock Android GUI and the settings don't look anything like iOS settings :

Unless he means they look the same because they have a menu on the left and the pref pane on the right... like about every other settings menu/screen made in the last 10-15 years. The KDE Control Center from KDE 2 is a good example :

Err samsung ones don't use the stock android gui. They use their touchwiz crap that any android is better without. I like android as I like iOS but touchwiz no way. I'm not referring to the 2 pane style that is old stuff. Only the settings being in white like the ipad instead of that black/blue google theme (that honestly rocks!).

 

[samcraig]

Err samsung ones don't use the stock android gui. They use their touchwiz crap that any android is better without. I like android as I like iOS but touchwiz no way. I'm not referring to the 2 pane style that is old stuff. Only the settings being in white like the ipad instead of that black/blue google theme (that honestly rocks!).

I don't have a Samsung Tablet. Nor have I used Android without Touchwiz. But I have no issues or complaints about the OS on my Samsung Skyrocket. To each their own.

 

[Oletros]

Err samsung ones don't use the stock android gui. They use their touchwiz crap that any android is better without. I like android as I like iOS but touchwiz no way. I'm not referring to the 2 pane style that is old stuff. Only the settings being in white like the ipad instead of that black/blue google theme (that honestly rocks!).

Now even using a white background is copying Apple?

 

[KnightWRX]

Only the settings being in white like the ipad instead of that black/blue google theme

That is copying now ? Heck, KDE used the same Whitish-gray/Blue theme that iOS uses 10 years ago. It's a common color combination.

Those don't even look alike. Samsung is still using the stock Android UI, just a different color scheme.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Strange, given it seems a lot of people seem to be bashing Apple. Let's just agree that Apple didn't create the iPad or iPod or iPhone or MacBook Air or iMac. They just copied Samsung. And of course they copied Google too. And they should be looked down upon for defending their patents because they are doing so while they should be spending their time and money innovating like Samsung is. And quite frankly they should be bowing down to Samsung for all the things Samsung has provided them. Apple is clearly biting the hand that feeds it.

Hence, this site should be www.samsungrumors.com

Oh how I miss the downvote button for comments like this.

 

[LordVic]

Err samsung ones don't use the stock android gui. They use their touchwiz crap that any android is better without. I like android as I like iOS but touchwiz no way. I'm not referring to the 2 pane style that is old stuff. Only the settings being in white like the ipad instead of that black/blue google theme (that honestly rocks!).

Left Hand Navigation pane with a larger right hand content pane is nothing new to any UI. it has been a long standing design element that dates back...

well, to early UI's.
For example: windows 3.1 File Explorer (this same organization is still usable today in win7 or even OSx)

Early websites in the 90's were absolutely filled with this "left hand navigation menu, right hand content" scheme when Frames were first introduced to HTML. I can't tell you how many thousands of pages I had seen with this very setup!

So Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, anyone using this concept is nothing new and are all just variations of the same concept

 

[Rogifan]

you clearly have not actually read this thread in most of it's entirety.

There are plenty of people who have made the bogus claim that apple invented the concept of the tablet and that every single part of the ipad was their invention or at leaset innovation. The one that makes me laugh the most are the individuals who absolutely rail on the competitors for "copying" or borrowing elements of design, but refuse to accept or aknowledge that Apple has borrowed enough of it's designs and technology along the way. (Heck the original Apple was made from stolen parts from Xerox!)

After being constantly knocked down from that with facts, the last standing argument is "well, prior tablets had stylus!"

I'm an apple user. I have, and do own apple products (1st gen ipod, 3rd gen ipod, 5th gen ipod, 1st gen touch, ipad2, Macbook Air as well as multitude of accessories).

Just like every other product I own I am going to be critical of them if they do something that I perceive to be inaccurate or poor for business. I will never claim apple didn't innovate. The iPad virtually busted the tablet market open. But Apple has not shown a whole lot of innovation in the last year or two. The iphone 4 was the last time they released something to market that wasn't just a marginal increase.

Instead of new products that are completely innovative, we're getting refreshes, and apple throwing lawsuits around. They've gone after companies with hundreds of patents in their filings hoping that at least one sticks, and screaming (waving money) for preliminary injunctions to stop their competitors from making any sales.

as a user of Apple products, this is a bad sign! if the company is working on things that nobody else has, or seen before, they shouldn't be fearing the 'copycats'. But these lawsuits constantly are showing they do fear them, which leads me to believe that without Jobs at the helm, Apple is rudderless and can't come up with anything.

so For everyone saying "this is an apple community site", yes it is. We're discussing apple. The Good and the bad. if you believe everything apple does is 100% amazing and perfect, Maybe there are better sites for you that encourage rampant ignorance and fanboyism

It's been less than a year since Jobs died. One would assume the things Apple is releasing this year he was involved in, in some way shape or form. As far as lawsuits go, it was Jobs who said he would go nuclear on Android so I don't think we'd be seeing fewer lawsuits if he was still manning the ship. You say Apple hasn't innovated the last few years. Who else out there is giving us stuff that's "completely innovative"? What great leaps have we ween in Android phones besides them getting bigger for the larger batteries needed to support LTE? And all these Ultrabooks out there...are they really that much more innovative than the MacBook Air? Was there some great innovation in the Nexus 7 that blows away anything Apple has done lately?

 

[LordVic]

It's been less than a year since Jobs died. One would assume the things Apple is releasing this year he was involved in, in some way shape or form. As far as lawsuits go, it was Jobs who said he would go nuclear on Android so I don't think we'd be seeing fewer lawsuits if he was still manning the ship. You say Apple hasn't innovated the last few years. Who else out there is giving us stuff that's "completely innovative"? What great leaps have we ween in Android phones besides them getting bigger for the larger batteries needed to support LTE? And all these Ultrabooks out there...are they really that much more innovative than the MacBook Air? Was there some great innovation in the Nexus 7 that blows away anything Apple has done lately?

I'll give you that nobody has really been innovating lately. I'd say in the last 2 years, there have been no significant new products that made as big a splash as tablets did when they first came out.

But Apple fanboys and Apple themselves believe that they are this grand king of innovation.

But instead of blowing us away lately with something new and exciting, we're getting news report after news report of lawsuits and litigations.

I'm all for protecting your rights and your assets when it's justifiable. But I agree with the judge in this case where Apple's simplicity of design is a huge detriment as the simpler you go, the harder things are to distinguish. There are only so many ways to create an all screen device in the most minimalist, smalles,t lightest package. At some point, unless a company randomly decides to start using circular screens, All tablets are going to have the same basic shape and design elements from the front.

Apple knows this. Everyone knows this. And yet they still went full tilt ahead at trying to block other device makers from even selling their device.

We have every right to be critical of apple.


Also: Macbook Air? the design is great, but most of the innovation believe it or not doesn't go to Apple. The CPU, chipsets, technologies, screens, batteries.... pretty much most of the device aren't designed or built by apple. Apple didnt invent the ULV cpu's that are in their machines, Intel did. same with the chipsets, GPU's. Heck, the screens and SDD's are made in part by Samsung, their competitor which they're trying to sue!

What apple did was make a very nice looking package. They worked out deals with the suppliers to ensure that they coudl retain momentary exclusivity in which they could "pioneer" the segment and take the credit. Again, apple went with the purest most simplest design elements. Which same as the ipad isn't the best way to distinguish yourself, because as laptops get simpler and smaller, there are only so many possible ways to build them.

I LOVE my macbook Air. its the best laptop i've ever owned. the build quality is fantastic. But I do not fool myself into thinking that Apple invented the ultra portable market. it existed long before (Sony Viao Z series from back in the day pops into mind, that was even smaller, simpler and believe it or not, faster).

 

[samcraig]

What great leaps have we ween in Android phones besides them getting bigger for the larger batteries needed to support LTE? A

Sorry. Phones or OS? Because Android 4.1 (Jellybean) from what I understand has taken the OS to a whole new level.

 

[KnightWRX]

And all these Ultrabooks out there...are they really that much more innovative than the MacBook Air?

Depends. Was the MacBook Air that much more innovative than the Sony Vaio X505 ?

It's getting plain as day : Apple is not launching these lawsuits to protect their IP, the randomness of the IP they use in the lawsuits depending on the country says otherwise. These lawsuits are there to slow down the competition, plain and simple.

Seems to me Apple is afraid someone might pull a Microsoft on them, make a ubiquitous platform that is open and available to many OEMs, leaving them and their vertically integrated solution to fill a niche in the market like what happened to Macs.

 

[samcraig]

Pretty much what I've written in this thread before and in other threads. It doesn't go over well because clearly Apple has nothing to be afraid of since they have a billions in the bank

Depends. Was the MacBook Air that much more innovative than the Sony Vaio X505 ?

It's getting plain as day : Apple is not launching these lawsuits to protect their IP, the randomness of the IP they use in the lawsuits depending on the country says otherwise. These lawsuits are there to slow down the competition, plain and simple.

Seems to me Apple is afraid someone might pull a Microsoft on them, make a ubiquitous platform that is open and available to many OEMs, leaving them and their vertically integrated solution to fill a niche in the market like what happened to Macs.

 

[Rogifan]

I'll give you that nobody has really been innovating lately. I'd say in the last 2 years, there have been no significant new products that made as big a splash as tablets did when they first came out.

But Apple fanboys and Apple themselves believe that they are this grand king of innovation.

But instead of blowing us away lately with something new and exciting, we're getting news report after news report of lawsuits and litigations.

I'm all for protecting your rights and your assets when it's justifiable. But I agree with the judge in this case where Apple's simplicity of design is a huge detriment as the simpler you go, the harder things are to distinguish. There are only so many ways to create an all screen device in the most minimalist, smalles,t lightest package. At some point, unless a company randomly decides to start using circular screens, All tablets are going to have the same basic shape and design elements from the front.

Apple knows this. Everyone knows this. And yet they still went full tilt ahead at trying to block other device makers from even selling their device.

We have every right to be critical of apple.


Also: Macbook Air? the design is great, but most of the innovation believe it or not doesn't go to Apple. The CPU, chipsets, technologies, screens, batteries.... pretty much most of the device aren't designed or built by apple. Apple didnt invent the ULV cpu's that are in their machines, Intel did. same with the chipsets, GPU's. Heck, the screens and SDD's are made in part by Samsung, their competitor which they're trying to sue!

What apple did was make a very nice looking package. They worked out deals with the suppliers to ensure that they coudl retain momentary exclusivity in which they could "pioneer" the segment and take the credit. Again, apple went with the purest most simplest design elements. Which same as the ipad isn't the best way to distinguish yourself, because as laptops get simpler and smaller, there are only so many possible ways to build them.

I LOVE my macbook Air. its the best laptop i've ever owned. the build quality is fantastic. But I do not fool myself into thinking that Apple invented the ultra portable market. it existed long before (Sony Viao Z series from back in the day pops into mind, that was even smaller, simpler and believe it or not, faster).

When did I say Apple invented the ultra portable market? My question to you was what is all this great innovation from other companies that we're not seeing from Apple? I used the MacBook Air and Ultrabooks as examples. You said Apple hasn't been innovative the past few years. Can you name some innovations that you see in Ultrabooks that aren't in the MBA? Or in the Nexus 7 that aren't in the iPad?

If the MBA is a rip off of the Vaio then certainly the same can be said for all the PC Ultrabooks out there, no? And if Apple isn't innovative because they don't design and build their own CPU's, batteries, displays etc. then I guess the same can be said for PC OEM'S who use Intel processors, NVIDIA graphics, Samsung/LG/Sharp displays. Oh and Microsoft software. Can't forget that.

But no I guess if I take off my fanboy hat Apple isn't innovative at all. They just have good designers who know how to package other people's stuff to look pretty and a marketing department that knows how to advertise. And of course sheeple who will buy anything that has a shiny Apple logo on it so they can look cool while sitting at Starbucks drinking their lattes. it's amazing to me that anyone would invest in such a fraud of a company.

 

[samcraig]

But no I guess if I take off my fanboy hat Apple isn't innovative at all. They just have good designers who know how to package other people's stuff to look pretty and a marketing department that knows how to advertise. And of course sheeple who will buy anything that has a shiny Apple logo on it so they can look cool while sitting at Starbucks drinking their lattes. it's amazing to me that anyone would invest in such a fraud of a company.

When you write in such a manner it makes it hard to take you seriously. Sincerely. Hyperbole is hyperbole.

 

[Apoxie]

The law in UK is pretty simple...

If you decide to bring proceedings to judicial review, then

If you win, then expect an injunction on the other party.
If you lose, expect to publicly appologise.

Don't see what the fuss is all about.

Correct. Its funny how posters in this thread seem to think its something the judge made up specially for this case. Its standard practice, deal with it.

 

[jmgregory1]

Depends. Was the MacBook Air that much more innovative than the Sony Vaio X505 ?

It's getting plain as day : Apple is not launching these lawsuits to protect their IP, the randomness of the IP they use in the lawsuits depending on the country says otherwise. These lawsuits are there to slow down the competition, plain and simple.

Seems to me Apple is afraid someone might pull a Microsoft on them, make a ubiquitous platform that is open and available to many OEMs, leaving them and their vertically integrated solution to fill a niche in the market like what happened to Macs.

So tell me what you would do if you designed something new that was what seems like such a common sense outgrowth of another product, clearly groundbreaking, but at the same time you wondered why no one else did what you did. So you apply for and get a patent on it. You start selling it and it lights the world on fire. Then a short while later a parts supplier you used to help make your product starts selling what looks like a very similar product. Do you just consider it to be coincidental? Do you, using your perfect hindsight say that of course your design was the natural outgrowth of the other product and that you should not have thought your design was anything special and you should forgo all means of protecting you design?

 

[samcraig]

So tell me what you would do if you designed something new that was what seems like such a common sense outgrowth of another product, clearly groundbreaking, but at the same time you wondered why no one else did what you did. So you apply for and get a patent on it. You start selling it and it lights the world on fire. Then a short while later a parts supplier you used to help make your product starts selling what looks like a very similar product. Do you just consider it to be coincidental? Do you, using your perfect hindsight say that of course your design was the natural outgrowth of the other product and that you should not have thought your design was anything special and you should forgo all means of protecting you design?

I guess you're referring to Samsung. Funny thing tho - there are dozens of manufacturers who make tablets and they all look relatively similar. And not all of them provide Apple with parts. Coincidence?

 

[kdarling]

So tell me what you would do if you designed something new that was what seems like such a common sense outgrowth of another product, clearly groundbreaking, but at the same time you wondered why no one else did what you did. So you apply for and get a patent on it.

I'm not going into the larger debate here yet, but wanted to point out some debate details.

For example, what patent would that be in this case? The only patent involved here is a simple Design one (the rounded rectangle with flat front and even borders with metal trim), which has been dismissed due to prior art in serveral courts, or gotten around by a minor change.

You start selling it and it lights the world on fire. Then a short while later a parts supplier you used to help make your product starts selling what looks like a very similar product.

Invalid assumption. Samsung supplied cpu and memory chips and sometimes screens, not the case or other parts. Other than the screen, they'd have no clue what the rest would look like, because there'd be no reason for Apple to tell them.

Do you just consider it to be coincidental?

Nope, but the resemblance didn't come because of espionage.

One of the most common (and decent) questions that comes up is, why didn't previous tablets look similar to the iPad? The answer is, some did. (There were also attempts to make touch friendly easy tablets before.)

However, this particular unprotected frontal design was not seen as practical by the overwhelming majority of tablet buyers, who needed a more ruggedized design, and frankly, also often needed a stylus for signature input.

Did Apple invent the design? No. What they did was to make it popular with mass consumers, which is very important and we're all glad they did, but it is difficult to legally protect that. It's like putting fins on cars, or emblems on shirts, or other fads where being first is nice, but providing the best deal and getting the most sales is even nicer.

 

[Oletros]

So you apply for and get a patent on it. You start selling it and it lights the world on fire. Then a short while later a parts supplier you used to help make your product starts selling what looks like a very similar product. Do you just consider it to be coincidental

And you're thinking exactly whom?

 

[Blackbook Pro]

samsung rips off apple

Depends. Was the MacBook Air that much more innovative than the Sony Vaio X505 ?

.

No one is questioning which one is more innovative. They are questioning flagrant copies of innovative products.

Back to SONY , Notice that Sony is Missing from the "year of the copycats" slide. Steve jobs admired companies like sony, why? because companies like Sony INNOVATE!! Something that the Koreans (samsung lg...) don't know the concept of.



Samsung can innovate if they try, Look at their bloated 4.8 inch plastic goliath phone with 5 hours battery life and fragmented OS..........oh wait

 

[Oletros]

Back to the SONY X505, Notice that Sony is Missing from the "year of the copycats" slide. Steve jobs admired companies like sony, why? because companies like Sony INNOVATE!! Something that the Koreans (samsung lg...) don't know the concept of.

Let's see this slide: HP, Motorola, Blackberry and Google. Yap, all Koreans

Samsung can innovate if they try, Look at their bloated 4.8 inch plastic goliath phone with 5 hours battery life and fragmented OS..........oh wait

5 hours battery life and fragmented OS, what product are you takling about?

 

[pacalis]

Back to SONY , Notice that Sony is Missing from the "year of the copycats" slide. Steve jobs admired companies like sony, why? because companies like Sony INNOVATE!! Something that the Koreans (samsung lg...) don't know the concept of.

Hmmm...

Or maybe it's that he was trying to get a display contract with Sony or Sharp so that they wouldn't have to buy so much Samsung stuff.

Anyway, it's too bad the ghost of Steve didn't visit the UK judge. Obviously he visited a lot of other places because companies are already copying the upcoming smaller iPad.