Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
We remember that Apple already invented this technology and the free porn fanatics went nuts at them.

Just for trying to keep kids safe.

What a world.
Is that what they're trying to do? Just remember when we thought Trump would be deporting just the criminals, rapists, drug dealers and gang members but the reality is anything but that? If you think this is to just keep kids safe, I have a bridge to sell you.
 
Is that what they're trying to do? Just remember when we thought Trump would be deporting just the criminals, rapists, drug dealers and gang members but the reality is anything but that? If you think this is to just keep kids safe, I have a bridge to sell you.
Took a bit, but finally a post referencing President Trump. You need help.
 
I’m not. I’m making an argument akin to minors not being allowed to buy alcohol until they are 21 / 18 etc
Which would be most embarrassing to you -- having to show your ID to buy alcohol (which is not recorded anywhere, just seen by a cashier), or having to prove your age (which would be stored and linked directly to you) to watch porn? What if a database of customers who bought alcohol was hacked and put out for all to see? I doubt anyone would care. But a database of users who watch porn or those who send personal images that are stored somewhere are linked to you...what if that was released? Worse than alcohol or even tobacco? Don't compare the two, they're not the same.
 
  • Love
Reactions: turbineseaplane
Is that what they're trying to do? Just remember when we thought Trump would be deporting just the criminals, rapists, drug dealers and gang members but the reality is anything but that? If you think this is to just keep kids safe, I have a bridge to sell you.

This is why I was so against the CSAM scanning stuff Apple almost participated in.

The best way to not have tools get used in ways they weren't intended to be .... is to not build the tools.
 
Which would be most embarrassing to you -- having to show your ID to buy alcohol (which is not recorded anywhere, just seen by a cashier), or having to prove your age (which would be stored and linked directly to you) to watch porn? What if a database of customers who bought alcohol was hacked and put out for all to see? I doubt anyone would care. But a database of users who watch porn or those who send personal images that are stored somewhere are linked to you...what if that was released? Worse than alcohol or even tobacco? Don't compare the two, they're not the same.
I think that you're twisting the argument here, as age ID systems commonly use zero knowledge proof methods, which if implemented correctly, means that the website/app doesn't know who you are - just that the person visiting them has a key that proves that they are 18 or over.
 
  • Like
Reactions: whatnot
They do jail PDF's, but obviously the right wing media here would rather you believed they didn't so that billionaire friendly politicians will be voted in so they can pay less tax, and exploit more workers.

This and the digital collate information to be stolen by hackers, I mean digital safety act can do one.

Edit to add, do one means go away in strong terms here in the UK
In the UK there have been several high profile cases where they judged ruled they person would be at risk if they were jailed. You don’t have to make this a left-right issue.
 
I think that you're twisting the argument here, as age ID systems commonly use zero knowledge proof methods, which if implemented correctly, means that the website/app doesn't know who you are - just that the person visiting them has a key that proves that they are 18 or over.
Well, if you have proof that the UK would not be tying your ID to some token on your phone saying you're an adult, then I agree with you. But I didn't read that, and even if they said it, not sure I would trust them to be honest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bluecoast
Well, if you have proof that the UK would not be tying your ID to some token on your phone saying you're an adult, then I agree with you. But I didn't read that, and even if they said it, not sure I would trust them to be honest.

I'm just not into any of these techniques from the start.

I don't want to set any precedent for third parties deciding what I can read or look at on "my device".
 
Which would be most embarrassing to you -- having to show your ID to buy alcohol (which is not recorded anywhere, just seen by a cashier), or having to prove your age (which would be stored and linked directly to you) to watch porn? What if a database of customers who bought alcohol was hacked and put out for all to see? I doubt anyone would care. But a database of users who watch porn or those who send personal images that are stored somewhere are linked to you...what if that was released? Worse than alcohol or even tobacco? Don't compare the two, they're not the same.
Ah yes the people in power are always unblemished. /s
 
  • Like
Reactions: cjsuk
I'm just not into any of these techniques from the start.

I don't want to set any precedent for third parties deciding what I can read or look at on "my device".
People have been conditioned to commission their critical thinking to government, professionals, media, technology, AI etc. Unless the majority wake-up from the hypnosis the slide to dystopia will be a slippery ride.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cjsuk
Unless the majority wake-up from the hypnosis the slide to dystopia will be a slippery ride.

The "majority" is usually doing this, while comfortably sliding into that dystopia.

teens-on-phones2.gif
 
I work in the software industry.

NOTHING works as promoted.
I can well believe that, but like I said - and I'm not pretending to be an expert on cryptography - this should be able to be implemented correctly. Whether it is, is another matter.
 
I can well believe that, but like I said - and I'm not pretending to be an expert on cryptography - this should be able to be implemented correctly. Whether it is, is another matter.

That is the issue. The main issues we've seen with ID verification systems over the years (I have worked on them) is that they have to actually store stuff to work. And "unstoring" things (cleaning up) is a lot more complicated than it sounds. Not only that, the vendor can be compelled by a hostile government to change the implementation which is not something you have control over. Also the vendor's equipment may be compromised by an external actor as well.

The only answer to this isn't a pile of cryptography, it is don't do it.

Verify, don't trust. You can't verify the ID verification service. Therefore you shouldn't trust it.
 
That is a privacy nightmare. It should be the other way around. No censorship at all unless a parent installs censorship on a specific device for his kids.

And why should nudity harm children? If a German school class goes swimming, it is very likely that they see their own teacher nude.
 
How is preventing children seeing billions of harmful porn images/videos online fascism?

Seems quite a sensible idea to bake this protection into the hardware itself rather than blocking it by the means of blocking VPNs etc.
Its not about the children. Solutions already exist. The government wants to scan every device for children? They don’t even care if children are homeless and you tell me they care if a child sees something inappropriate on a phone? No its about mass surveillance but they marketed it with something emotional to get the majority behind.
 
The UK government actually already has ZKP on Android in partnership with Google. You can register a local copy of your passport (never saved to cloud) and use it for online ID proof. For some stupid reason they forgot to lead with this.

It would be helpful if we caught up with the rest of Europe instead of being so backwards on things. Estonia proved e-gov works at scale and most EU countries have state ID cards.

Age gating online content is fine because it’s what we do in meatspace. Asking corps to block rude images is the same as packaging jazz magazines in black covers on the top shelf of a corner shop which we also do in meatspace.
The fact ZKP isn’t the only possible way is a systemic failure. I don’t know what you do but here we don’t block rude immiges if they are legal. We don’t perl clutch for nudity. Private companies shaping public space according to some moral principles is something anyone should be strongly opposed to.
Why are you blaming Apple when all the other major tech companies have been doing CSAM for years?

If any government is looking for an excuse to introduce something related to CSAM they’re not going to use Apple (who abandoned their system) as justification.

They’ll use all the other companies (Google, Microsoft, Meta…) that have been actively scanning for CSAM materials BEFORE Apple announced their system and have continued doing it SINCE.
Because apple didn’t just do CSAM. They provided what they believed was the ability to do csam without violating your privacy or allowing it to be super abused by the state. They broke the dam. It gave the government the solution on a plattter that they will just implement it without violating your rights. They promise that the CSAM list will only be for it and not other political issues and imagery etc etc.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.