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Upcoming Apple Vision Pro Could Get More Comfortable 'Dual Knit Band'
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Pretty much. But this use-cases are predicated on the assumption Thatcher will be a more mainstream, wallet-friendly device that a lot of people buy which the apps / games / content developed on the Vision Pro will be used on. Right now that’s the biggest problem with the whole Vision concept - having a big enough userbase with enough use-cases they are prepared to pay for. And that means, as you’ve said, a cheaper model for consumption, whereas the more expensive pro is for production. It’s not there yet.
Still notenoigh to get it out of the „nice” category and istotne „mainstream” catagory. And so there not be the same amount of apps and for it then would be for a „mainstream” product. I hope the Vision rangę gets there, with an expensive pro and far cheaper consumption-focus device ( think of it in the same way as a base iPad and an iPad pro), but it’s not there yet.
a cheap, consumption-focused device needs to be far closer to $1000 than $2000. At the $1000 price point, I think it would be OK if it had to be tethered to an iPhone or Mac, rather than standalone, for a lot of the functionality.
I don’t know why you think all of this. The Mac Pro exists the Pro Display XDR exists they are in the same class.
Sidenote I never understood what “lifestyle” product meant in regard to Apple. MacBook Pro, iPhone Pro, Apple Watch, Vision Pro & iPad Pro I view them all as tools.
Where did you see Apple making Pro products at 1K … I agree though that the consumer product would be even lower if linked to our iPhone / iPad / MacBook Pro like a Xreal when the pro would be well what they’ve done it but without the bells no one cares
I didn’t, but I think $1000 is a far more realistic price for a consumer, not developer / professional focused product - a headset that is better than a MetaQuest, and so more expensive, but still competing in the same product category. And I’m not surprised that Meta’s new glasses (with display) are at this price point, more or less.
$2000is still too high a price point if they. Want a ViSION product to sell enough units to be a mainstream product, and so be a viable platform for developers to create and sell to a use base big enough to make that development profitable.
A headset is not an essential item, whereas a phone or a computer is. Far more people will pull the trigger and spend $1000 on a non-essential item than would spend $2000.
The “magical” $999 price tag (so under a thousand) really does work as a promotional, merchandising trick. $1999 doesn’t work in the same way.
Considering the MacBook Air (starts at $999) is a single display and arguably less complex of a device I think it’s going to take a while before we see any Apple Vision product at $999.
The Vision Pro line is basically dead and done with the M5 chip bump.
That will languish as is for a long while I predict (as the APM has done).
Upgraded model work stopped.
Air version work stopped.
Team members moved to Glasses efforts.
AVP as we know it today is done.
I think the whole - “Apple have completely shut down Vision development so Vision is dead” is something to take as a “maybe” at best.
1) we don’t know how much development has already been done - Apple may already have completed a lot of development, and do they don’t need to devote resources to complex development.
2) we might hear a rumour next month saying they’ve moved a load of people INTO new development fir vision / the fluidity moves both ways.
There was a whole when the pundits claimed that the Mac was dead and am Apple were just letting the products lines die. And then the M chips came out.
MRumours really are just rumours.
But there willneed to be a Vision equivalent of the $999 MBA for the Vision to be attractive enough to sell enough units to be a mainstream platform with mainstream levels off app/services development and contact.
If something like a $999 vision doesn’t appear, the vision platform won’t reach the critical mass needed for it to become a mainstream platform.
Niche and expensive or mainstream with a range if devices, from relatively affordable to expensive. That’s hue it has always panned out for Apple, this is no different.
I don’t think it is … if Tim has stopped what is the best Mix reality tech for a stupid ray ban that doesn’t do anything more than our phones does, then it’s time to go sooner than expected… May I remind any of you how the meta world has become ? Few millions units ok but how many keep it ?
I guess we'll see .. but reporting has indicated there is no AVP future being worked on.
I'm just going off of that until something changes that.
Ok, so you think for the first time in recent Apple history Apple has abandoned a platform and OS less than 2 years in.
I mean it’s interesting you buy Gurman’s reporting over Apple’s actions of continuing to update visionOS and release content.
They are still selling them, so yes I expect them to keep the OS going.
They are still selling AirPodsMax and updating software for those too.
It's indicative of very little in terms of long term.
Apple is well known for riding things out once they've put R&D into them, whether there is a future of not.
The TouchBar would like a word
I feel ya man - you love the AVP, I get it.
I'm just being objective based upon what we are seeing rumored from the channels.
The reports aren't made up out of whole cloth and certainly could be off the mark, but it's all we have to go on.
No, I think they are pivoting their work on VisionOS to the glasses project.
But yes, I do think the AVP hardware and functional design as currently done is a dead end, and reviews and lack of uptake support that assertion.
I’m unsure every business needs to operate on selling units at maximum quality. Apple (at least publicly) states usually isn’t chasing market share. They can have a sustainable healthy business with quality good margins on hardware and additional revenue on services.
Also unsure what “mainstream” means. If it means >100 million units in 5 years (I think one of the best selling gaming console the PS2 sold that much). Or is it 50 million? All of which is more than all of VR/MR (which probably reached maximum 30 million in the past 10 years. We are a long ways from reaching these numbers from a single XR product. Apple can do it though but it’s challenging and takes more than 2 years and 1 generation.
Some good nuggets in the Wired piece
Apple now seems to be aiming to launch a pair of Meta-style smart glasses in 2027, with another pair featuring a display on the lens aimed for release in 2028—if not before.
The move makes sense—after all, this has been the year where smart glasses really gained a foothold—but it's a telling and somewhat embarrassing U-turn for Apple. The $3,499 Apple Vision Pro has widely been considered a failure for the company, after Apple moved uncharacteristically early in a field that was still finding its feet
“It does seem that Apple is just kind of spinning,” says Michael Gartenberg, a tech analyst and former Apple marketing director. “For the first time in a long time, Apple feels like they're out of the conversation.”
www.wired.com
Apple now seems to be aiming to launch a pair of Meta-style smart glasses in 2027, with another pair featuring a display on the lens aimed for release in 2028—if not before.
The move makes sense—after all, this has been the year where smart glasses really gained a foothold—but it's a telling and somewhat embarrassing U-turn for Apple. The $3,499 Apple Vision Pro has widely been considered a failure for the company, after Apple moved uncharacteristically early in a field that was still finding its feet
“It does seem that Apple is just kind of spinning,” says Michael Gartenberg, a tech analyst and former Apple marketing director. “For the first time in a long time, Apple feels like they're out of the conversation.”
The Vision Pro Was An Expensive Misstep. Now Apple Has to Catch Up With Smart Glasses
Having reportedly shelved work on a cheaper Vision Pro, Apple is apparently pivoting its focus to smart glasses—and hoping it's not too late.
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When discussing the development of AR and AR devices back in 2016, he said that most people wouldn’t find it acceptable to be “enclosed in something … because we are sociable people at heart.” He was spot on.
Who was "he"?
Tim Cook in 2016
Who was "he"?
Tim Cook in 2016
I don’t see “lack of uptake” since I’m not sure what the expectations are for an $3,500 product and I think reviews are overall at worst mixed. There is no way in this universe Apple expected to sell more than they could make going into this which tops out at most 600k units (highest number I have read estimated production yield), as low as 450k units (lowest estimated production yield I have read). They knew going in $3,500 is not a mass market (however that is quantified) product.
I hard disagree on the general idea that visionOS is suitable for seethrough glasses. Not sure that is what you’re saying exactly though.
visionOS is a spatial platform and OS. True Augmented Reality glasses are a few years off and very difficult. Augmented reality products like the Magic Leap 1 and 2 or HoloLens 2 have been tried with immersive style OS and it’s just not that great for seethrough waveguide or birdbath displays that is meant to be used in public. Augmented Reality glasses IMO require a very different design language than what is out there and has been done before. Basically a branch of visionOS akin to how iPadOS branched from iOS because it had different needs for different scenarios of use.
If it’s just “smart” glasses or HUD glasses they are allocating resource to, then I think this is just Apple being a functional structured organization that they are and new products require engineering resources temporarily as they would for almost any new product. The only similarity is its worn on face. Aside from these things, extremely different products from Vision Pro and visionOS.
If anything this may be more of a sign Apple is shifting resources from spatial computing to AI. That is the most likely outcome of anything I’d buy into as to what’s going on. “Smart” glasses and HUD glasses are more of an AI product. Which lays a strong foundation for true augmented reality glasses down the road also but again fundamentally different from visionOS.
So what do you make of the following?
Reporting indicates there is no work on an upgraded/newer main AVP, and work on the lower cost/tweaked AVP Air has stopped and resources have been moved to Glasses to get something out the door "faster than usual".
How do you look at that and see anything other than ... AVP is what it is and will be left to do what it's doing already?
Are you just hoping?
I mean - that's fine I guess, for sure ..
I'm literally just looking at what information is actually coming out of Apple through the usual/various back channels.
Surely you have to put SOME credence into that, no?
How are you thinking about it?
@JOLoughlin
Let's not forget the quote above from Tim Cook in 2016
They've always known that the isolating mask is not a mainstream product fit and Apple is not a VR gaming company.
It honestly seems obvious that AVP was always an intermediate step here.
I do expect them to keep selling it for a while (again, like APMs and other products over the years), but I don't think there is a grand future with Apple for that particular product and form factor.
I hope they consider a more "Bigscreen Beyond" type of content consumption concept for it.
Streamline it ... get the size/weight/price WAY down from where AVP is and focus it much more on being an accessory.
Let's not forget the quote above from Tim Cook in 2016
They've always known that the isolating mask is not a mainstream product fit and Apple is not a VR gaming company.
It honestly seems obvious that AVP was always an intermediate step here.
I do expect them to keep selling it for a while (again, like APMs and other products over the years), but I don't think there is a grand future with Apple for that particular product and form factor.
I hope they consider a more "Bigscreen Beyond" type of content consumption concept for it.
Streamline it ... get the size/weight/price WAY down from where AVP is and focus it much more on being an accessory.
Citing the rest of his quote below; he make a distinction between AR and VR. Saying VR is important but AR will have larger appeal.
So most people I think don’t get is Vision Pro and visionOS is a VR/MR product, platform and OS through and through. It provides a lot of modalities VR AR and AV (most people don’t know or care to know about AV so I’ll spare it). Mixed Reality product is the spectrum of providing Augmented Reality and Augmented Virtuality. But whether Tim knows it or not or didn’t want to get too into the weed is that Augmented Reality can be a very different experience from different products. Seethrough AR products like the Magic Leap 2 have very different affordances than passthrough VR/MR products that use cameras/video.
“I hope, is very important for everyone, so AR will become really big. VR I think is not going to be that big, compared to AR. I’m not saying it’s not important, it is important.
"I’m excited about VR from an education point of view, I think it can be really big for education, I think it can be very big for games. But I can’t imagine everyone in here getting in an enclosed VR experience while you’re sitting in here with me. But I could imagine everyone in here in an AR experience right now, if the technology was there, which it’s not today. How long will it take?
"AR is going to take a while, because there are some really hard technology challenges there. But it will happen, it will happen in a big way, and we will wonder when it does, how we ever lived without it. Like we wonder how we lived without our phone today."
Citing the rest of his quote below; he make a distinction between AR and VR. Saying VR is important but AR will have larger appeal.
So most people I think don’t get is Vision Pro and visionOS is a VR/MR product, platform and OS through and through. It provides a lot of modalities VR AR and AV (most people don’t know or care to know about AV so I’ll spare it). Mixed Reality product is the spectrum of providing Augmented Reality and Augmented Virtuality. But whether Tim knows it or not or didn’t want to get too into the weed is that Augmented Reality can be a very different experience from different products. Seethrough AR products like the Magic Leap 2 have very different affordances than passthrough VR/MR products that use cameras/video.
“I hope, is very important for everyone, so AR will become really big. VR I think is not going to be that big, compared to AR. I’m not saying it’s not important, it is important.
"I’m excited about VR from an education point of view, I think it can be really big for education, I think it can be very big for games. But I can’t imagine everyone in here getting in an enclosed VR experience while you’re sitting in here with me. But I could imagine everyone in here in an AR experience right now, if the technology was there, which it’s not today. How long will it take?
"AR is going to take a while, because there are some really hard technology challenges there. But it will happen, it will happen in a big way, and we will wonder when it does, how we ever lived without it. Like we wonder how we lived without our phone today."