Upgrading 2013/2014 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by maxthackray, Mar 1, 2017.

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  1. gilles_polysoft macrumors regular

    gilles_polysoft

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Location:
    Tours (France)
    #1176
    Hi monofase,
    the long black Sintech adapters have exactly the same wiring diagram as the green ones and they do work as great as the green adapters.
    Only hibernation doesn't work, but this definitely seems to not being an adapter issue but an EFI issue.
    Of course Apple AHCI SSAX or SSUBX do work great, for the price they cost and the total lack of warranty you have when you buy one (and never know if it is new or used...)

    Temperature is not linked in any way to the link width nor the protocol. Generally speaking Samsung drives run hot (my 2TB 960 Pro runs at 55°C idle and 73°C after huge transfers), but Kingston / Toshiba drives, even being fast NVMe drives with 4x PCIe 3.0 lanes, run at 39°C idle and 58°C after a long blackmagic test.
     

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  2. kazami6853 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2018
    #1177
    Do you have the hibernation and sleep mode problem?
     
  3. egalitarian, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018

    egalitarian macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    #1178
    Is it possible that 2x drives being slower inidirectly possibly produce less heat? Another reason could be drive average power requirements.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 19, 2018 ---
    I think no, but haven't tested it extensively because I took it off the system. Generally only the 2013/2014 MacBook Pros have them if I remember correctly. I have the long black sintech adapter
     
  4. Jilly Bowman macrumors member

    Jilly Bowman

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Location:
    Dubai
    #1179
    Temp is about right for a Samsung drive, write speed is probably low because it is a PM961, SM961. gives about 1300 MB/s write and same read as you have.
    What bootrom version are you using?
     
  5. Haven2258_123 macrumors newbie

    Haven2258_123

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    #1180
    UPDATE 2018-04-20:

    I received the big green sintech adapter today (actually just 30 mins ago), and tested with my 960 EVO 500GB SSD on 10.13.4 (17E199).

    1) reboot problem("?" mark)-->OK (with"alt", orange/external disk found)
    2) cold boot -------------------->OK (if with "alt", orange/external disk found)
    3) sleep problem--------------->TBA
     
  6. Jilly Bowman macrumors member

    Jilly Bowman

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Location:
    Dubai
    #1181
    Until and indeed if Apple update the 2013/4 Bootrom/EFI then hibernate will not work with NVMe drives. The 2015 bootrom works fine. on 2013/14 the EFI sees the drive as an external drive and the system cannot restore and wake from hibernation because it cannot find an internal drive to restore from so it reboots instead. Thats why normal boot is delayed also, because the EFI looks for an internal drive, cant find one then goes looking for external drives.
     
  7. sandrvoxon macrumors newbie

    sandrvoxon

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2018
    Location:
    Dubai
    #1182
    Hi Guys. So what is the difference between long black and big green adapters ?
     
  8. egalitarian macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    #1183
    There is no electrical difference if I remember correctly.
     
  9. thierrybeginl macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    #1184
    Well a few people had connexion problems with the green one as the SSD had a little angle. I went with the black one which goes from the connector to the little screw. I received it today

    Would I need a termo pad on the SSD?

    I don't know yet since I am booting from an SdCard with my late 2013, still waiting to see which drive to buy. True story lol
     
  10. Audit13, Apr 22, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018

    Audit13 macrumors 68040

    Audit13

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #1185
    I have been running the large green Sintech adapter with a 256 GB Intel 600p for months and everything has been great in an early 2015 13" Air.

    I checked for updates in the App store and the was an update for High Sierra. I ran the update but there was an error message about efi firmware. I clicked ok too quickly and the message disappeared. I wondered if the update was supposed to update the firmware or SMC so I put in an oem apple SSD, performed a fresh install of Sierra and let the machine update to High Sierra. There were no errors during the update from Sierra to High Sierra.

    System Report shows the following after the High Sierra update to 10.13.4:

    Bootrom: MBA71.0176.B00
    SMC Version: 2.27f2.

    The bootrom was MBA71.0171.B00 before the High Sierra update.

    Found the previous bootrom version from my previous post: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ssd-to-m-2-nvme.2034976/page-26#post-25679632
     
  11. kkng macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    #1186
    I've used my MacBook Air ''13 Mid 2013 with a 128GB SSD for 4 years now (currently with macOS High Sierra 10.13.4) and want to install a 500GB NVMe SSD in the coming weeks/months in order to use Win10 with Bootcamp on it.

    After a short research I found out that I'll need this adapter from Sintech. I wasn't able to decide which SSD I should install. As far as I can see most people are using Samsung SSDs, mostly the 960 EVO.

    I thought it'd be better to buy a cheaper SSD with slower read/write speeds, since my MBA Mid 2013 will never be able to use the full capacity of a 960 EVO. Now I think that the ADATA XPG SX6000 (ASX6000NP-512GT-C) will be an adequate choice (it has higher read/write speeds than the MBA Mid 2013 limit and is still reasonably priced) but first I'd like to know, if anyone here has installed an ADATA NVMe SSD in his MBA and if there were any issues, or if there is any reason to prefer other brands/models over ADATA (especially the model I've mentioned above).

    Best regards
     
  12. apemaia macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    #1187
    At the moment I haven't yet buy the final ssd I need (a 2TB 960 Pro for a 15" MBPr mid 2015) because I'm not sure about the ratio price / full success (I need to be sure all work fine :).
    My question: If I try with a smaller ssd (250GB 960 Evo or 512GB 960 Pro) and the the installation work, I can assume with 100% security that even the big 2TB will work? (Of course with last ssd firmware and OS correctly installed with original ssd)?
    Thank and have a nice day
     
  13. evanslify macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2018
    #1188
    Hey. I'll be getting a 960 EVO tomorrow, planning to use it with my MBPR 15" mid-2015.

    According to this thread (just went from 1st to 48th page), 2015 Macbooks should not have any problems like KPs, sleep, battery drain. Am I correct?

    Also, does the firmware version of SSD have any impact?
     
  14. My Dime Is Up macrumors newbie

    My Dime Is Up

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2018
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    #1189
    I seem to be stuck in an install loop. I bought a Late 2013 MacBook Pro Retina 15" (A1398) off of eBay without a hard drive. I have a Samsung PM951 and the SinTech ST-NGFF2013-B adapter. I booted into ubuntu, formatted the drive, and booted into my High Sierra USB and formatted the drive as APFS. When going through the installer, it said my drive had to be Mac OS Extended (Journaled). So I reformatted it as Journaled and continued to the install screen. When around "2 minutes remaining", the screen would turn black and would go to the apple logo with the loading bar. When the bar reached around 1/8th completion, it would go back to the Mac OS Utilities main menu, as if I just booted back into the USB drive. I've been stuck here no matter how much I try.

    I have another mac laying around with an apple hard drive. Should I possibly put that into my 15" and reinstall High Sierra, then put the SinTech adapter in and install High Sierra? I'm confused as to what to do.
     
  15. remifranck macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Location:
    France
    #1190
    Hello
    Thank you very much to Gilles_Polysoft and the others who continue to bring the experiences as agreed I make a small information feedback
    Everything it is unwound well except for some flats(drawbacks)
    1) Not successful installation of the KC1000 with the small black adapter Sintech
    The long black adapter with 2 coats(layers) of Kapton works very well with the KC1000
    2) Problem of excessive consumption of the battery when the MBPr is in sleep mode (after 7 hours of the day before (watch), there is more than 65 % of the battery ?
    3) Loss about 1 hour on the autonomy on battery of my MBPr
    All the rest is OK
    Is there a solution so that the battery does not empty too fast in hibernation ?
    Thanks
    Good day
     
  16. gilles_polysoft macrumors regular

    gilles_polysoft

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Location:
    Tours (France)
    #1191
    Hello,
    I don't remember if a lot of PM951 have been tested here, or if a special firmware was needed.
    This may be a problem with a BootRom too old to handle the NVMe SSD.
    Please can you verify which BootRom do you have ? You should have at least MBP112.0142.B00
    If you have a lower BootRom, yes you do have to put an Apple AHCI SSD into your 15" and reinstall High Sierra.

    As of today, you can't update BootRom with any NVMe SSD (either Apple ones)
    best regards

    gilles
    --- Post Merged, Apr 24, 2018 ---
    Hi,

    The 2 TB 960 Pro works for sure in a 15" MBPr mid 2015. I've been using one for more than 3 months now.
    It works great with last firmware and only on APFS and since 10.13.3.
    There is a known problem with Samsung drives and HFS+ (kernel panics on huge i/o file transfers).

    As for me I did bought a 960 Pro because I could have it at a much lower price.
    But I wouldn't recommand you to put the $1400 retail price in a 2TB 960 Pro thought, because at that price you can get a genuine 2 TB Apple SM2048L drive...

    You may consider two other models of 2 TB drives that are coming to the market lately :
    - the Toshiba XG5-P 2TB (KXG50PNV2T04A) which can be found at around $800
    - the Samsung 970 Evo which was just announced and should cost $850

    The Toshiba XG5-P is quite hard to find online, but Toshiba NVMe drives always worked fine.
    They can be formated with 4K blocks, they run at low temperatures, they are fast and reliable.
    Also, as of today, 970 Evo have not been tested and it won't be available in mass before some weeks / months.
     
  17. Jilly Bowman macrumors member

    Jilly Bowman

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Location:
    Dubai
    #1192
    Try this ...
    When you get the reboot to the mac os utilities screen, power off, then power on with alt key pressed, select installer as boot drive. worked for me.
     
  18. My Dime Is Up macrumors newbie

    My Dime Is Up

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2018
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    #1193
    I made a thread and found out I have a Boot ROM from 02/17/2017 which may be the problem. Will update tomorrow with my status.
     
  19. gilles_polysoft macrumors regular

    gilles_polysoft

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Location:
    Tours (France)
    #1194
    Hi,
    Yes this seems to be the point here, you are totally right.

    That's right.
    It seems the DXE NVMe driver is present in the 2013-2014 BootRom but it seems not be mapped the same way as in 2015 BootRom, which causes the hibernation fail.
    Also, on 2013-2014 and 2015 macs, BootRom upgrades fail with NVMe drives which is a problem...
    It not only to fails with M.2 NVMe drives and Sintech adapters but it also totally fail with genuine Apple NVMe SSD (I have tested AP032 and SM2048L), and from what I have read there might be Bootrom upgrades failure on iMac 16,1 with fusion drives, which are made with... NVMe SSD... go figure...
     
  20. Jobe454 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    #1195
    Intel 6000p (HP) SSD Install Update:

    Installed Intel 6000p (rev HP01) with long black sintech adapter in my mid2013 mba. It has been straight forward, from install to booting back via TM. I did not use Ktape, but will be getting some for PoM. So far so good.

    This Intel 6000p (HP ver) not the fastest compared to 960s, but the extra space from original Apple 128G sata to Intel 6000p nvme is great. cold boot time can't tell, maybe a hair faster.. No heat issues at the moment. will be testing hib as I use mba. Will update if anything comes up.

    Would like to thank all on this ssd upgrade project!

    Thanks Gilles for the provided data and extensive testing!
     

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  21. Audit13 macrumors 68040

    Audit13

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #1196
    @Jobe454, congratulations of your success.

    How is the battery drain during normal use and in sleep mode?
     
  22. Jobe454 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    #1197
    Thank you Audit13.

    Power consumption is noticeable, but manageable for me as I do have a more powerful laptop for power usage.

    Have used mba about 3-4hrs total yesterday (medium use, combination of +-5 excel workbooks, download/Upload sheets/docs, a dozen or so browser tabs on a few browsers..) with quite a few hibs throughout the day as I move around. I started yesterday on a cold boot and 100% batt. I am at 47% batt as I am typing this update today without charging mba. I will verify if I can get through rest of day without needing to charge mba.

    I would estimate power percentage a little higher with original SSD on a similar work day, but I did increase sleep time to minimize hib when idle times out.

    I installed battery app to log power history and will monitor power usage moving forward. Current batt cycle count 259.

    No other issues has come up. The hib vs sleep is a given and has been manageable. At least for me. If I do not need to plug during 1 day for work use, I am ok.

    Other thought; would be sweet to keep sleep feature for faster wakes though.
     
  23. apemaia macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    #1198

    Salut Gilles, thanks a lot for your informations. I have see the new 970 EVO and this seems to be a good choice form me... and I can wait. The toshiba XG5-P I cannot find to buy...
    Someone noticed that samsung ssd with APFS caused long boot time. What is your experience?


    Maybe I'm wrong, but if I boot from an external USB drive not NVMe the bootrom upgrade should work? Or is a good idea to keep the original ssd to be sure?

    Thanks

    Andrea
     
  24. Jobe454 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    #1199
    Hi Audit13 are you using factory sleep settings with Intel 600p?

    May have miss interpret the need to set hib 25 for mid2013 mba. Revert back to hib 0 + factory power settings. tested sleep within 30min. No sleep issues.
     
  25. Audit13 macrumors 68040

    Audit13

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #1200
    Yes, I did not change any sleep settings. I'm using everything at the factory defaults for my early 2015 air.
     
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