Upgrading 2013/2014 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe

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gilles_polysoft

macrumors regular
Jul 7, 2017
186
455
Tours (France)
Hi guys,
what about the new big Sintech black adapters?

http://eshop.sintech.cn/ngff-m2-pcie-ssd-card-as-2013-2014-2015-macbook-ssd-p-1229.html

Anyone tried them? I need to buy new adapters from sintech and I was wondering if they work better than the old green ones
Hi monofase,
the long black Sintech adapters have exactly the same wiring diagram as the green ones and they do work as great as the green adapters.
Only hibernation doesn't work, but this definitely seems to not being an adapter issue but an EFI issue.
I wonder how Apple SSUBX ssds or the 1TB SSUAX perform in 2013-2014 MBP. They are not NVMe but working x4. If they are operating cool, the temperature raises because of the protocol not the link width. Anyone has experience on this?
Of course Apple AHCI SSAX or SSUBX do work great, for the price they cost and the total lack of warranty you have when you buy one (and never know if it is new or used...)

Temperature is not linked in any way to the link width nor the protocol. Generally speaking Samsung drives run hot (my 2TB 960 Pro runs at 55°C idle and 73°C after huge transfers), but Kingston / Toshiba drives, even being fast NVMe drives with 4x PCIe 3.0 lanes, run at 39°C idle and 58°C after a long blackmagic test.
 

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kazami6853

macrumors newbie
Apr 18, 2018
1
0
I have just installed a Samsung PM961 512GB in my MacBook 13'' early 2015 and while it works I have a feeling it overheats. After some Blackmagic tests ~ 1500MB/s read / 600MB/s write (too low) DriveDX shows a temperature of 63C. Is that normal?

I'm using the long black sitnech adapter and don't have any other stability issues. I didn't put any kapton tape. Is it still needed with that adapter?

I havent' updated the firmware yet because bootcamp needs "OS Extended (Journaled) volume or already partitioned by Boot Camp Assistant for installing Windows" and I need to reinstall everything because I'm on APFS. My current firmware CXY74D1Q. How do I check if that's the latest firmware?

Thanks
Do you have the hibernation and sleep mode problem?
 

egalitarian

macrumors newbie
Mar 16, 2018
10
0
HTemperature is not linked in any way to the link width nor the protocol. Generally speaking Samsung drives run hot (my 2TB 960 Pro runs at 55°C idle and 73°C after huge transfers), but Kingston / Toshiba drives, even being fast NVMe drives with 4x PCIe 3.0 lanes, run at 39°C idle and 58°C after a long blackmagic test.
Is it possible that 2x drives being slower inidirectly possibly produce less heat? Another reason could be drive average power requirements.
[doublepost=1524121373][/doublepost]
Do you have the hibernation and sleep mode problem?
I think no, but haven't tested it extensively because I took it off the system. Generally only the 2013/2014 MacBook Pros have them if I remember correctly. I have the long black sintech adapter
 
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Haven2258_123

macrumors newbie
Mar 31, 2018
4
3
Hi everyone,

Just to share my experience with the 13' rMBP 2014, with small black Sintech adapter + 960 EVO 500GB

1) reboot problem("?" mark) YES (with"alt",no disk found)
2) cold boot OK (if with "alt", orange/external disk found)
3) sleep problem YES

PS. I ordered a large green sintech adapter now, and am waiting to test it when received.
UPDATE 2018-04-20:

I received the big green sintech adapter today (actually just 30 mins ago), and tested with my 960 EVO 500GB SSD on 10.13.4 (17E199).

1) reboot problem("?" mark)-->OK (with"alt", orange/external disk found)
2) cold boot -------------------->OK (if with "alt", orange/external disk found)
3) sleep problem--------------->TBA
 

Jilly Bowman

macrumors member
Feb 2, 2017
53
14
Dubai
UPDATE 2018-04-20:

I received the big green sintech adapter today (actually just 30 mins ago), and tested with my 960 EVO 500GB SSD on 10.13.4 (17E199).

1) reboot problem("?" mark)-->OK (with"alt", orange/external disk found)
2) cold boot -------------------->OK (if with "alt", orange/external disk found)
3) sleep problem--------------->TBA
Until and indeed if Apple update the 2013/4 Bootrom/EFI then hibernate will not work with NVMe drives. The 2015 bootrom works fine. on 2013/14 the EFI sees the drive as an external drive and the system cannot restore and wake from hibernation because it cannot find an internal drive to restore from so it reboots instead. Thats why normal boot is delayed also, because the EFI looks for an internal drive, cant find one then goes looking for external drives.
 

thierrybeginl

macrumors newbie
May 2, 2017
15
0
Hi Guys. So what is the difference between long black and big green adapters ?
Well a few people had connexion problems with the green one as the SSD had a little angle. I went with the black one which goes from the connector to the little screw. I received it today

Would I need a termo pad on the SSD?

I don't know yet since I am booting from an SdCard with my late 2013, still waiting to see which drive to buy. True story lol
 

Audit13

macrumors 603
Apr 19, 2017
5,075
1,283
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I have been running the large green Sintech adapter with a 256 GB Intel 600p for months and everything has been great in an early 2015 13" Air.

I checked for updates in the App store and the was an update for High Sierra. I ran the update but there was an error message about efi firmware. I clicked ok too quickly and the message disappeared. I wondered if the update was supposed to update the firmware or SMC so I put in an oem apple SSD, performed a fresh install of Sierra and let the machine update to High Sierra. There were no errors during the update from Sierra to High Sierra.

System Report shows the following after the High Sierra update to 10.13.4:

Bootrom: MBA71.0176.B00
SMC Version: 2.27f2.

The bootrom was MBA71.0171.B00 before the High Sierra update.

Found the previous bootrom version from my previous post: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ssd-to-m-2-nvme.2034976/page-26#post-25679632
 
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kkng

macrumors newbie
Apr 22, 2018
20
22
I've used my MacBook Air ''13 Mid 2013 with a 128GB SSD for 4 years now (currently with macOS High Sierra 10.13.4) and want to install a 500GB NVMe SSD in the coming weeks/months in order to use Win10 with Bootcamp on it.

After a short research I found out that I'll need this adapter from Sintech. I wasn't able to decide which SSD I should install. As far as I can see most people are using Samsung SSDs, mostly the 960 EVO.

I thought it'd be better to buy a cheaper SSD with slower read/write speeds, since my MBA Mid 2013 will never be able to use the full capacity of a 960 EVO. Now I think that the ADATA XPG SX6000 (ASX6000NP-512GT-C) will be an adequate choice (it has higher read/write speeds than the MBA Mid 2013 limit and is still reasonably priced) but first I'd like to know, if anyone here has installed an ADATA NVMe SSD in his MBA and if there were any issues, or if there is any reason to prefer other brands/models over ADATA (especially the model I've mentioned above).

Best regards
 

apemaia

macrumors newbie
Feb 4, 2018
16
6
At the moment I haven't yet buy the final ssd I need (a 2TB 960 Pro for a 15" MBPr mid 2015) because I'm not sure about the ratio price / full success (I need to be sure all work fine :).
My question: If I try with a smaller ssd (250GB 960 Evo or 512GB 960 Pro) and the the installation work, I can assume with 100% security that even the big 2TB will work? (Of course with last ssd firmware and OS correctly installed with original ssd)?
Thank and have a nice day
 

evanslify

macrumors newbie
Apr 24, 2018
4
0
Hey. I'll be getting a 960 EVO tomorrow, planning to use it with my MBPR 15" mid-2015.

According to this thread (just went from 1st to 48th page), 2015 Macbooks should not have any problems like KPs, sleep, battery drain. Am I correct?

Also, does the firmware version of SSD have any impact?
 

My Dime Is Up

macrumors member
Apr 24, 2018
30
1
Philadelphia, PA
I seem to be stuck in an install loop. I bought a Late 2013 MacBook Pro Retina 15" (A1398) off of eBay without a hard drive. I have a Samsung PM951 and the SinTech ST-NGFF2013-B adapter. I booted into ubuntu, formatted the drive, and booted into my High Sierra USB and formatted the drive as APFS. When going through the installer, it said my drive had to be Mac OS Extended (Journaled). So I reformatted it as Journaled and continued to the install screen. When around "2 minutes remaining", the screen would turn black and would go to the apple logo with the loading bar. When the bar reached around 1/8th completion, it would go back to the Mac OS Utilities main menu, as if I just booted back into the USB drive. I've been stuck here no matter how much I try.

I have another mac laying around with an apple hard drive. Should I possibly put that into my 15" and reinstall High Sierra, then put the SinTech adapter in and install High Sierra? I'm confused as to what to do.
 

remifranck

macrumors newbie
Apr 2, 2018
3
0
France
Hello
Thank you very much to Gilles_Polysoft and the others who continue to bring the experiences as agreed I make a small information feedback
Everything it is unwound well except for some flats(drawbacks)
1) Not successful installation of the KC1000 with the small black adapter Sintech
The long black adapter with 2 coats(layers) of Kapton works very well with the KC1000
2) Problem of excessive consumption of the battery when the MBPr is in sleep mode (after 7 hours of the day before (watch), there is more than 65 % of the battery ?
3) Loss about 1 hour on the autonomy on battery of my MBPr
All the rest is OK
Is there a solution so that the battery does not empty too fast in hibernation ?
Thanks
Good day
 

gilles_polysoft

macrumors regular
Jul 7, 2017
186
455
Tours (France)
I seem to be stuck in an install loop. I bought a Late 2013 MacBook Pro Retina 15" (A1398) off of eBay without a hard drive. I have a Samsung PM951 and the SinTech ST-NGFF2013-B adapter.
[...]
Should I possibly put that into my 15" and reinstall High Sierra, then put the SinTech adapter in and install High Sierra?
Hello,
I don't remember if a lot of PM951 have been tested here, or if a special firmware was needed.
This may be a problem with a BootRom too old to handle the NVMe SSD.
Please can you verify which BootRom do you have ? You should have at least MBP112.0142.B00
If you have a lower BootRom, yes you do have to put an Apple AHCI SSD into your 15" and reinstall High Sierra.

As of today, you can't update BootRom with any NVMe SSD (either Apple ones)
best regards

gilles
[doublepost=1524596024][/doublepost]
At the moment I haven't yet buy the final ssd I need (a 2TB 960 Pro for a 15" MBPr mid 2015) because I'm not sure about the ratio price / full success (I need to be sure all work fine :).
My question: If I try with a smaller ssd (250GB 960 Evo or 512GB 960 Pro) and the the installation work, I can assume with 100% security that even the big 2TB will work? (Of course with last ssd firmware and OS correctly installed with original ssd)?
Thank and have a nice day
Hi,

The 2 TB 960 Pro works for sure in a 15" MBPr mid 2015. I've been using one for more than 3 months now.
It works great with last firmware and only on APFS and since 10.13.3.
There is a known problem with Samsung drives and HFS+ (kernel panics on huge i/o file transfers).

As for me I did bought a 960 Pro because I could have it at a much lower price.
But I wouldn't recommand you to put the $1400 retail price in a 2TB 960 Pro thought, because at that price you can get a genuine 2 TB Apple SM2048L drive...

You may consider two other models of 2 TB drives that are coming to the market lately :
- the Toshiba XG5-P 2TB (KXG50PNV2T04A) which can be found at around $800
- the Samsung 970 Evo which was just announced and should cost $850

The Toshiba XG5-P is quite hard to find online, but Toshiba NVMe drives always worked fine.
They can be formated with 4K blocks, they run at low temperatures, they are fast and reliable.
Also, as of today, 970 Evo have not been tested and it won't be available in mass before some weeks / months.
 

Jilly Bowman

macrumors member
Feb 2, 2017
53
14
Dubai
I seem to be stuck in an install loop. I bought a Late 2013 MacBook Pro Retina 15" (A1398) off of eBay without a hard drive. I have a Samsung PM951 and the SinTech ST-NGFF2013-B adapter. I booted into ubuntu, formatted the drive, and booted into my High Sierra USB and formatted the drive as APFS. When going through the installer, it said my drive had to be Mac OS Extended (Journaled). So I reformatted it as Journaled and continued to the install screen. When around "2 minutes remaining", the screen would turn black and would go to the apple logo with the loading bar. When the bar reached around 1/8th completion, it would go back to the Mac OS Utilities main menu, as if I just booted back into the USB drive. I've been stuck here no matter how much I try.

I have another mac laying around with an apple hard drive. Should I possibly put that into my 15" and reinstall High Sierra, then put the SinTech adapter in and install High Sierra? I'm confused as to what to do.
Try this ...
When you get the reboot to the mac os utilities screen, power off, then power on with alt key pressed, select installer as boot drive. worked for me.
 

gilles_polysoft

macrumors regular
Jul 7, 2017
186
455
Tours (France)
Regarding the 2013/14 MBP's not waking from hibernation. My findings show that it could well be related to Bootrom firmware.
Hi,
Yes this seems to be the point here, you are totally right.

In the 2015, which in my case does wake from hibernation, the NVMe drive is seen as internal at the time of booting (alt/power startup) therefore the drive is found and hibernation wake takes place, but with the 2013/14 MBP's the drives are seen as external at this point because the bootrom is in control. Hibernation cannot wake as the internal drive is not found, during normal running, the same drive is seen as internal and hibernation can take place but at wake time the bootrom shows it as external. This also accounts for the longer time period for the apple logo to appear at boot on these models whereas the 2015 boots normally.
That's right.
It seems the DXE NVMe driver is present in the 2013-2014 BootRom but it seems not be mapped the same way as in 2015 BootRom, which causes the hibernation fail.
Also, on 2013-2014 and 2015 macs, BootRom upgrades fail with NVMe drives which is a problem...
It not only to fails with M.2 NVMe drives and Sintech adapters but it also totally fail with genuine Apple NVMe SSD (I have tested AP032 and SM2048L), and from what I have read there might be Bootrom upgrades failure on iMac 16,1 with fusion drives, which are made with... NVMe SSD... go figure...
 

Jobe454

macrumors newbie
Apr 12, 2018
9
2
Intel 6000p (HP) SSD Install Update:

Installed Intel 6000p (rev HP01) with long black sintech adapter in my mid2013 mba. It has been straight forward, from install to booting back via TM. I did not use Ktape, but will be getting some for PoM. So far so good.

This Intel 6000p (HP ver) not the fastest compared to 960s, but the extra space from original Apple 128G sata to Intel 6000p nvme is great. cold boot time can't tell, maybe a hair faster.. No heat issues at the moment. will be testing hib as I use mba. Will update if anything comes up.

Would like to thank all on this ssd upgrade project!

Thanks Gilles for the provided data and extensive testing!
 

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Jobe454

macrumors newbie
Apr 12, 2018
9
2
Thank you Audit13.

Power consumption is noticeable, but manageable for me as I do have a more powerful laptop for power usage.

Have used mba about 3-4hrs total yesterday (medium use, combination of +-5 excel workbooks, download/Upload sheets/docs, a dozen or so browser tabs on a few browsers..) with quite a few hibs throughout the day as I move around. I started yesterday on a cold boot and 100% batt. I am at 47% batt as I am typing this update today without charging mba. I will verify if I can get through rest of day without needing to charge mba.

I would estimate power percentage a little higher with original SSD on a similar work day, but I did increase sleep time to minimize hib when idle times out.

I installed battery app to log power history and will monitor power usage moving forward. Current batt cycle count 259.

No other issues has come up. The hib vs sleep is a given and has been manageable. At least for me. If I do not need to plug during 1 day for work use, I am ok.

Other thought; would be sweet to keep sleep feature for faster wakes though.
 
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apemaia

macrumors newbie
Feb 4, 2018
16
6
Hi,

The 2 TB 960 Pro works for sure in a 15" MBPr mid 2015. I've been using one for more than 3 months now.
It works great with last firmware and only on APFS and since 10.13.3.
There is a known problem with Samsung drives and HFS+ (kernel panics on huge i/o file transfers).
[...]
You may consider two other models of 2 TB drives that are coming to the market lately :
- the Toshiba XG5-P 2TB (KXG50PNV2T04A) which can be found at around $800
- the Samsung 970 Evo which was just announced and should cost $850

The Toshiba XG5-P is quite hard to find online, but Toshiba NVMe drives always worked fine.
They can be formated with 4K blocks, they run at low temperatures, they are fast and reliable.
Also, as of today, 970 Evo have not been tested and it won't be available in mass before some weeks / months

Salut Gilles, thanks a lot for your informations. I have see the new 970 EVO and this seems to be a good choice form me... and I can wait. The toshiba XG5-P I cannot find to buy...
Someone noticed that samsung ssd with APFS caused long boot time. What is your experience?


Also, on 2013-2014 and 2015 macs, BootRom upgrades fail with NVMe drives which is a problem...
Maybe I'm wrong, but if I boot from an external USB drive not NVMe the bootrom upgrade should work? Or is a good idea to keep the original ssd to be sure?

Thanks

Andrea
 

Jobe454

macrumors newbie
Apr 12, 2018
9
2
Hi Audit13 are you using factory sleep settings with Intel 600p?

May have miss interpret the need to set hib 25 for mid2013 mba. Revert back to hib 0 + factory power settings. tested sleep within 30min. No sleep issues.
 

Audit13

macrumors 603
Apr 19, 2017
5,075
1,283
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Hi Audit13 are you using factory sleep settings with Intel 600p?

May have miss interpret the need to set hib 25 for mid2013 mba. Revert back to hib 0 + factory power settings. tested sleep within 30min. No sleep issues.
Yes, I did not change any sleep settings. I'm using everything at the factory defaults for my early 2015 air.
 
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