Upgrading old Mac Pro to 8800 GT graphics?

[TBi]

Yeah Looks like I'll be cancelling my order once this is confirmed.

I just sent a nasty gram to Steve. Not that it will do any good. . . but I feel better about it.

Hmm so you sent a "nasty gram" even though no one actually has one of these cards and can confirm that the released version is incompatible with the old mac pro.

Strange.

That's like panning Toyota for not putting a silver gear knob in a car they haven't released yet!

 

[MovieCutter]

That appears to be EXACTLY the case. . .

I'm getting madder and madder the more I think about this. . . grrrrrr

Your anger would be better put elsewhere most likely.

 

[lloyd709]

I've just had a call back from apple with a 'definitive' answer - it's NOT compatible!!

Anyone know any good corporate lawers?

 

[milo]

The problem is the firmware on the card, not the interface. The card is electrically compatible with PCI-E 1.0 but apple is making the firmware incompatible (if that is the case).

As someone confirmed above, people have successfully used these cards in a mac running windows with boot camp. That makes it sound like the firmware probably isn't even a problem, it's more likely just apple's drivers.

And we don't know that apple is making it incompatible. Sources have conflicted on this, nobody has one of these cards from apple yet, and they are weeks from shipping.

Sure, apple hasn't done a great job of explaining compatibility (although is there any official apple that says it WON'T work?), but it's entirely possible that these cards will ship and work just fine.

 

[yeroen]

I've just had a call back from apple with a 'definitive' answer - it's NOT compatible!!

Did they give you a specific reason why?

It'd be nice if they could qoute an internal memo or something.

Most of us on boards like this will know more about the technical details of the Mac Pro than Apple technical support.

 

[AdvocateUK]

I'm stunned!

Apple may as well drop the "Pro" monicker from the Mac Pro right now, as well as ditching the PCI-E slots and just shove the damn GPU on the motherboard. At least then we'd know to make the right choice of card from the get go and not be suckered into believing we can upgrade later.

This Mac Pro, although it may well last me another 4 or 5 years, is my last Apple computer. I bought it because buying the iMac "Ooh all in one so I can't upgrade, next time I'll get an MP" was a mistake. Turns out so is this.

 

[milo]

I've just had a call back from apple with a 'definitive' answer - it's NOT compatible!!

Anyone know any good corporate lawers?

What was your "definitive" source?

"All of these cards are only compatible with the family of computers with which they shipped."

This is from an article about G5's and MPs not having interchangable video cards. It doesn't say specifically that 2007 and 2008 MPs can't use the same video cards.

Has anyone tried taking an OLD MP video card and trying it in a new one? I'll bet they all work.

 

[waremaster]

Assuming they're still using PCI-e by then. I can't buy an ATI x1900 for a G5 now could I even though that card came out when the Mac Pro replaced the G5.

I'm not saying it's right that it's like this. It sucks, it really does. But no amounting of bitching and moaning is going to change it. But have fun doing it.

The difference is that the G5 was a completely different architecture than the Intel. Now we are talking basically PC's Intel to Intel. I will be quite mad about this if it turns out to be true and to retaliate I simply won’t buy a new Mac or 8800GT from them and instead will Build a PC and use an 8800 series card in that. I guess that’s what Apple is hoping will happen huh?

 

[sweedigel]

From http://www.barefeats.com/york2.html

ALERT TO OWNERS OF "OLD" MAC PROS! (CORRECTED)
The GeForce 8800 GT is *NOT* compatible with the older Mac Pro (August 2006, April 2007) as we assumed. I've been informed that GeForce 8800 GT uses an EFI64 ROM, the old Mac Pros "expect" an EFI32 ROM.

 

[timestamp]

I don't know why it was expected given the bump to PCIe 2.0 and apparently EFI64.

I also don't see any grounds for a lawsuit.

 

[pprior]

I've just had a call back from apple with a 'definitive' answer - it's NOT compatible!!

Anyone know any good corporate lawers?

What!! Please document further. My $5000+ mac pro not even a year old is not going to be able to have graphics card update?? I bought about 10 grand of Mac computing products last year, which was the first time I'd ever bought Mac. If this is how things go, I'm going back to PC hardware again. I am not going to pay 5 grand for a new computer when I really just need an updated video card, which is the WHOLE POINT of having an expandible tower machine.

 

[milo]

I will be quite mad about this if it turns out to be true...

Screw that, why not be like everyone else here and go ahead and get mad right now? This might turn out to be true and in that case you will have missed a chance to get real mad over nothing.

Is there any official info that apple that says this card won't work in older macs?

From http://www.barefeats.com/york2.html

And they don't say what their source is. It's entirely possible that source is wrong, especially since that source could be someone who isn't really in a position to be informed.

 

[lloyd709]

I was sold the mac pro by the salesman as being 'upgradable'. I really think they would have broken the law somewhere (in the UK anyway) by doing this.

 

[waremaster]

I don't know why it was expected given the bump to PCIe 2.0 and apparently EFI64.

I also don't see any grounds for a lawsuit.

As said many many times PCIe 2.0 is backwards compatible. EFI64 should not have been solely put on the card. EFI32 and 64 should have been used in order to not piss people off.

 

[waremaster]

Screw that, why not be like everyone else here and go ahead and get mad right now? This might turn out to be true and in that case you will have missed a chance to get real mad over nothing.

Is there any official info that apple that says this card won't work in older macs?

Agreed and thats why I will sit back and wait.

 

[Spades]

The final proof will come when somebody gets the card in their hands and tries it out. But this isn't looking good.

 

[lloyd709]

What was your "definitive" source?



This is from an article about G5's and MPs not having interchangable video cards. It doesn't say specifically that 2007 and 2008 MPs can't use the same video cards.

Has anyone tried taking an OLD MP video card and trying it in a new one? I'll bet they all work.

OK, it wasn't Steve Jobs but the guys said that the information had just (in the past few minutes when I spoke to him) been distributed within Apple. I'm trying to ring him back to see if I can get any futher information.

 

[TBi]

As someone confirmed above, people have successfully used these cards in a mac running windows with boot camp. That makes it sound like the firmware probably isn't even a problem, it's more likely just apple's drivers.

Apple released cards use a different firmware to the PC cards. The Mac 8800GT might work fine with windows too, but might not work with OSX just like the pc version doesn't.

Anyway no one will know until someone has one.

 

[milo]

OK, it wasn't Steve Jobs but the guys said that the information had just (in the past few minutes when I spoke to him) been distributed within Apple. I'm trying to ring him back to see if I can get any futher information.

What position was this person in? It's not uncommon for low level people like many of the sales and tech support the public can get in touch with to have wrong information, especially about products that haven't shipped yet.

 

[cal6n]

Is there any official info that apple that says this card won't work in older macs?

This looks pretty official to me.

Well, screw 'em. As soon as the card's here its ROM is getting dumped and sent to timb, themacelite and anyone else who wants it. I will have an 8800GT, just like I will have upgraded Xeons (when they're cheap enough ) and I already have an iPhone on Vodafone (since september!)

 

[lloyd709]

What position was this person in? It's not uncommon for low level people like many of the sales and tech support the public can get in touch with to have wrong information, especially about products that haven't shipped yet.

He was post sales support. I'm the first to be sceptical of what sales and tech people tell me but I think I was getting through to him and I'm confident what he said wasn't made up.

 

[TBi]

This looks pretty official to me.

Well, screw 'em. As soon as the card's here its ROM is getting dumped and sent to timb, themacelite and anyone else who wants it. I will have an 8800GT, just like I will have upgraded Xeons (when they're cheap enough ) and I already have an iPhone on Vodafone (since september!)

That doc isn't clear enough. To me all Mac Pro's belong to the family of Mac Pro's.

 

[lloyd709]

I don't understand hacking ROMs and stuff. Can someone explain what they think might be involved to get this thing working on an 'old' mac!!

 

[milo]

This looks pretty official to me.

Official? Sure.

Does it say that 07 mac pros can't use the same cards as 08 mac pros? No. People are just making that assumption. The article is titled "Mac Pro: Video cards from Power Mac G5 computers are not supported".

If they really meant that the two generations of MP can't interchange video cards, that would also imply that the new ones can't use the old ones. But that's not true, is it? (and that's something that can be tested now)

And while it may turn out that you can't pull a card from a new machine and swap it into an old one, isn't apple SELLING the card on its own, with no disclaimer saying it only works with 2008 MPs?

 

[AdvocateUK]

As I was planning on buying an 8800 for Bootcamp anyways I'm going to keep the card when it comes (provided it works in windows *sigh*).

I do feel hard done to though as the salesman in the Apple Store where I bought my Mac Pro (Manchester, UK) enthused about the fact that now that they'd gone Intel future upgrades "will just work" in my current Mac Pro. We were specifically talking about graphics cards I might add.