USB 3.0 and Faster FireWire in Next Mac Pro, iMac?

[Houston]

I can't believe there's actually an article about the Mac Pro! Exciting stuff!

Seems as if Bluray is the main interest. I guess I'm one of the few who could care LESS about Bluray. I just want the long overdue Mac Pro to be introduced. Today marks 500 days since the last update.
I was told a couple of months ago by a source at Apple it would be end of Summer or early Fall. Guess my contact was spot on.
The rumor now mentions end of Summer, in time for back-to-school sales, so let's hope we hear sometime in August.

 

[iPie]

Sorry, but OMG, an actual MAC story!

This has become iPhone rumors lately.

 

[Porco]

"But we want to make all of our users happy. If you don't know that about Apple, you don't know Apple. We love making our users happy."
--Steve Jobs, 16th July 2010

Blu-ray option with OS-level playback support in the new Mac Pros then please Steve!

 

[Darkroom]

wow, apple still makes the Mac Pro? nearly a year and a half without an update. that's what the headline should read

 

[the editor]

Stay in school, kid.

yeah sure Einstein, whatever you say. Have fun with your overpriced Mac that really uses about 1000$ worth of hardware, you end up paying 4000$ for what is really a 1000$ computer (if your a macpro user). you must be really smart!

 

[bobr1952]

no blu-ray, no sale.

how can someone justify getting a 27 inch top of the line iMac and not able to legitimately buy and watch 1080P movies??

I suppose I would use a blue-ray drive about as much as I use my current DVD drive--oh right--never.

 

[WilliamLondon]

Can't we get something posted JUST ****ING ONCE about this iPhone antenna thing I heard someone mention?

.

OMG, that's hysterical! Thank you so much for that!!!

 

[WilliamLondon]

Jobs also said that the iPhone reception problem was a "non issue".

Personally, I think that Steve Jobs is a bag of hurt. Although, you might still believe whatever he says. For many of us, it is kind of irrelevant. He lost credibility.

What I think is worse is people attacking other people. What I think is silly is people attacking people they don't know personally.

If he's already lost credibility with you, what is the purpose of posting something negative about him (a man you do not know personally) in a thread talking about USB 3.0 and a faster FireWire rumour?

To stay on topic, this rumour sounds great as I'm due to upgrade my iMac - wonder how long it'd take before new FireWire devices are available - will they be high end devices (more appropriate for the MacPro) or ???

 

[Nostromo]

USB 3 or faster Fire-Wire (better both) is a must.

1. How about an SSD start-up drive?

2. How about a second hard drive in the 27" iMac? Main as SSD, and a second, larger conventional HD.

 

[Bregalad]

Oh man, you don't even know the difference between FW 400 and 800? Yet you flame away anyway.

For the sake of education, this adapter:

http://store.apple.com/ca/product/TW748LL/A?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY

Actually you're the one who is uninformed. The "adapter" you linked to is nothing but a really short cable with a FW400 connector on one end and a FW800 connector on the other.

But go ahead and pay Apple $20 for an "adapter". I'd rather get this cable for $4.60
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10301&cs_id=1030105&p_id=3542&seq=1&format=2

 

[Digital Skunk]

What I think is worse is people attacking other people. What I think is silly is people attacking people they don't know personally.

Honestly, I think it's also wrong to assume someone shouldn't have an opinion about someone that's good OR bad without having known the person first.

On a side note, I've met lots of people that have met Steve Jobs first hand, and they've all said that he's kind of a jerk.

USB 3 or faster Fire-Wire (better both) is a must.

1. How about an SSD start-up drive?

2. How about a second hard drive in the 27" iMac? Main as SSD, and a second, larger conventional HD.

I would love to have two 3.5" HDDs inside the iMac. I'd even skip the option to have SSDs, just give me two large, fast cheap HDDs.

I'd love to see a SSD as a CTO option on the Mac Pro, but Apple should've given us the option to buy a barebones kit with nothing in it but the MOBO, and we fill it with the hardware ourselves.

 

[Great Dave]

Apple still makes Computers?

I thought they had forgotten about us...

But, seriously, Where is Blu-ray? I mean WTF!

 

[2ms]

I really really hope Apple's future machines all come with FW3200. This would be terrific in that it would be an interface for external storage such as NAS and RAID that would finally be just as fast as the storage devices are. At the same time, since FW3200 has FW800 connector, it would mean all the devices we currently own would still be compatible. So I could still use my Lacie Rugged FW800 (and without an adapter cable), I could still plug my MBP into my NAS if I wanted to quickly transfer some files, etc.

PLease standardize on FW3200 making it the final Firewire interface. IT would keep all our legacy stuff compatible and also make Firewire viable for long time to come.

If Apple doesn't do FW3200 then we're all going to have to ditch or FW devices because everything'll just be USB 3 or nothing. Not interested in that. Maybe when Lightpeak comes, but not another new set of getting everything in standard that's incompatible with what I have yet will be inferior to Lightpeak in just a couple years.

 

[xgman]

by the way, anyone think USB3 is going to happen on next Mac? I dont. because Apple doesnt buy any USB3 chips and Apple is awaiting Intel's chips which will be released next year or the year after next year.

maybe. or maybe Intel will ramp this up sooner, or maybe there will be another viable option by the supposed September-ish release. Apple needs to do something other than a simple speed bump at this point.

 

[xgman]

What I think is worse is people attacking other people. What I think is silly is people attacking people they don't know personally.

Life on the forums, unfortunately . . . . . . .

 

[tbrinkma]

But I think what upset most people is that we haven't heard an honest, professional and technologically focused reasoning about the omission of Blu Ray and I suspect the reason for it is that there isn't any. Steve Jobs or Apple Inc cannot come up with a valid reason, why Macs don't support Blu Ray.

Look into the licensing requirements for Blu-Ray. For one, it requires a fully encrypted data path between the drive, CPU, video card, and display. For another, it requires video drivers to be written such that they self-monitor for anything unusual, and they are actually supposed to crash themselves if they see anything even slightly unexpected. If you want a good overview of the issues, Google for 'defective by design' and read up on the idiocy that caused so much of Vista's issues relating to video cards. Most of it was done to enable Blu-Ray support.

Also, contrary to some simple people's argument, it is not just the matter that Macs don't have built-in Blu Ray drives. It's also that they don't support the technology. I can't imagine what Lord Vader and similar people would use for ripping, but I suspect that they are either on PC or they don't know what they are talking about.

Nope. You can read (and write) a Blu-Ray disc without having to meet any of the other requirements I mentioned above. You can buy Blu-Ray drives today that will plug into your Mac (internal or external as appropriate), and get software which will rip and convert the data stream to something more manageable. Apple won't be selling Blu-Ray drives pre-installed until they feel its worth going through the technical PITA that developing a licensed Blu-Ray player requires, because someone who buys a computer with a Blu-Ray drive is going to expect to be able to play their movies on it.

 

[tbrinkma]

I'm a bit late to the post...but some opinions:

Too bad they're not backed up by fact.

1)Firewire...does any consumer still use that? Seriously. Maybe folks with video cameras but FW, in my opinion and industry experts have stated that FW lost to USB over a decade ago.

Hm... So your contention is that FireWire lost out to USB back in 2000 or in 199x? The USB 2.0 standard, which supports up to 480Mbps raw data rates, was only finished in April 2000. At that point, Firewire had already been capable of those speeds for 5 years. (Yes, technically FW 400 was only capable of 400Mbps raw rates, but considering the differences in protocol overhead, FW can actually transmit between 150% and 200% more *actual* data over their respective connections.)

2)I frankly don't care about watching movies on my computers but I hear a lot of people here as well as other boards state they love watching movies on their 17-24" monitors. I do agree, now, with a lot of people demanding Blurary...it's been selling like mad (units and movies) since mid 2008...and I'd love to have a BD burner simply to backup 25-50GB on a single disc. My Sony home BD player cost $125 to my door. I own about 35 movies...all of which I paid $11.99-$17.99...all are blockbusters and all are stunning to watch on hi-def compared to their dvd counterparts. I think it would be worthwhile for Apple to include BD as an option...especially since Apple updates the Macs every 12-18 months. Do the people who want BD want to wait for the 2012 version of the Mac?...no. They may be able to go out and purchase a drive for $150-$200 but that's a pretty penny...and not sure if the consumer would then need to purchase software.

Sadly, the vast majority of movies are still not available on Blu-Ray, and won't be any time soon. Most new releases do come out on BD, but that massive back catalog of almost everything released up to a year after the PS3's release? Still DVD-only. (Except for a few that were actually released on VHS as well!

3)USB 3.0 is gonna rock...theory is 10x faster but likely 5x faster will be the norm. Heck, I'll take 3x faster. Backing up 200GB is not quick on USB 2.0.

According to the advertised USB 2.0 speeds, copying 200GB of data over the connection should take slightly an hour. I've never hit anything close to that in actual practice. (It took over an hour for 80GB in one instance.) The same data transfer between the same drives took significantly less time over both PATA and FireWire 400. In fact, the PATA and FireWire tests combined only took a few minutes longer than the USB 2.0 test did.

USB became more common because the control chips are 'dumber', and therefore less expensive. USB 3.0 will be competitive with Firewire 1600 in theory, but will actually only be competitive in practice with FireWire 800 (which was released in 2000).

For the record, I'm a fan of Blu-Ray and would love to see Blu-Ray drives sold in Macs. Unfortunately, I'm also a tech geek, so I understand why Apple hasn't gone with it yet.

 

[wizard]

Clearly you don't understand the Mac Pro and the markets it is designed to serve.

The Mac Pro has been unbelievably overdue, especially considering it is supposed to be the top-performance line of Macs (thus needing more frequent updates to keep up).

The Mac Pro may be slightly over due for an upgrade but that is only due to Apple having an approximate yearly update interval

In any event you are terribly confused as to what the Mac Pro is. One thing it is not is a computer that needs frequent updates. Rather it is just the opposite, a Mac Pro represents a high reliability machine designed for pros that need the assurances its server like architecture provides. It has never been all about performance or tweaky performance.

I'm surprised Macrumors systematically downplays that.

Maybe they understand business a bit more than you? Just look at Mac Pro volumes vs the iMac and Mini and ask yourself how they could justify the frequent updates you want.

Guys, you have a huge critical mass and I'm sure today even Apple follows you closely. Please do bring up this oddity when you mention Mac Pros, and consider expressing your wonders (I'm sure you do) as to why the Mac Pro has been so neglected to become basically abandoned.

Now you are just being ignorant as Apple has not indicated that they have abandoned the Mac Pro. That does not mean however that they have the design set in stone either. I would not be surprised to see the design overhauled. And yes I believe they are also trying to implement new technology for a new generation of Mac Pros.

It has jumped two releases, and it's nearly two years now. I'm sure many of the Macrumors community are all ears on this.

Apple is enjoying very robust Mac sales right now, they realize that to keep those numbers improving they need to keep the product line fresh but more so they need to innovate. That is why I'm expecting a major overhaul to the Mac line up. They need models that will pull in even more new users. A more rationalized line up will do that for them.


Dave

 

[tbrinkma]

2.) HDDs fail, that's a fact of life. Optical discs are safer for backup. Most corporations still use magnetic media or optical discs for backing up data.

Most corporations use magnetic media (aka tape drives or HDDs for back up). Optical media simply doesn't store enough to be practical, and the dyes used in most burnable optical media is *not* archival grade.

3.) I just came back because I wanted to see how more reasonable people are tearing you to bits. It's fun to watch your 'arguments' fail.

4.) If you start a post with "Bla bla bla (sic)" and if you repeat your broken record bit, don't blame others for not taking you seriously.

Careful, you sound quite a lot like him, except that you've bought into the opposite position.

 

[MacClassic]

I get the feeling that Blu-ray haters have never actually seen a good Blu-ray disc or heard an uncompressed sound track. My blu-ray has all that netflix stuff build in but I'll never use it as long as I can get the disc. No comparison between DVD and Blu-ray- not even close. I tried to the whole download thing once and it too is of no comparison. If you are semi serious about quality, this argument would be moot.

 

[wizard]

FW 3200 is a poor investment for NAS!!!

As much as I like my current FW external drive I would never suggest investing in a FW based NAS device. If such a device could even be called a NAS if it is connected via FireWire. There are two issues here, one is that you normally think of NAS as Ethernet devices. The second thing is if you want a directly attached storage device then FW3200 won't be around long with LightPeak so close. In fact I don't see many manufactures even investing the time here to update to FW3200 for attached storage and RAID devices. That market will move very fast to LightPeak.

That still leaves a fat market for FW3200 devices. Especially single portable drives, high performance Radio and Audio equipment and other areas where FW has been successful.

I really really hope Apple's future machines all come with FW3200. This would be terrific in that it would be an interface for external storage such as NAS and RAID that would finally be just as fast as the storage devices are. At the same time, since FW3200 has FW800 connector, it would mean all the devices we currently own would still be compatible. So I could still use my Lacie Rugged FW800 (and without an adapter cable), I could still plug my MBP into my NAS if I wanted to quickly transfer some files, etc.

PLease standardize on FW3200 making it the final Firewire interface. IT would keep all our legacy stuff compatible and also make Firewire viable for long time to come.

While I would like to see Apple upgrade FireWire myself I have this feeling it is more or less end of life. I'd like to be wrong here but technology marches forward.

As to the rumors I have to wonder if TI has suitable FW3200 chips to put in a Mac. Last I checked they had nothing but that was years ago. Apple can't implement if the hardware isn't there.

If Apple doesn't do FW3200 then we're all going to have to ditch or FW devices because everything'll just be USB 3 or nothing. Not interested in that. Maybe when Lightpeak comes, but not another new set of getting everything in standard that's incompatible with what I have yet will be inferior to Lightpeak in just a couple years.

You are making the assumption that USB 3 is so good that people will drop everything for it. The last I've seen is that adoption is real slow.

In the case of storage devices, LightPeak if it becomes real, will likely wipe out both FW and USB. Especially if Intel can get the PC industry to adopt. By storage devices I'm talking more than the portable drives commonly seen these days.

Not to mention none of these high speed copper interconnects have proven themselves for reliability.


Dave

 

[lllll]

I'm not gonna buy a new mac just because it has those two new feature.

Maybe if they include blueray and hdmi.

 

[Eric S.]

Nice to see an actual Mac Rumor for a change. Welcome news, if it turns out to be true.

 

[bigwig]

Darn, I just had to replace my iMac because my iMac G5 decided to die last week. I hope I won't lose too much value if I decide to resell my new Intel iMac and buy one of these new iMacs.

Has anybody here actually tried USB3 drives and peripherals? What was your experience with them? I've seen a few at Frys, like external drive cases.

FireWire 3200 is meaningless. As far as I can tell, there are no FW1600 or 3200 devices in the wild and I've heard no announcements by device manufacturers that they'll be upgrading to it.

 

[bigwig]

I rip all my blurays now and quality is more than enough to watch them on 27 inch screen.

What software are you using to rip and to play? Macs don't come with Blu-ray software players. Are these faithful direct copies or recompressed and image degraded?