Verizon iPhone 5 Will Not Offer Simultaneous Voice and Data [Update: It Was A Hardware Decision]

[Terrin]

The fact this only the iphone 5 has this limitation on verizon means its something to do with the single chip apple is using. No other LTE phone has this issue.

It seems like when on a call, only the CDMA and or GSM bands are working. Even on att, it drops you off of LTE and onto the 3g network.

It is not true that no other LTE phone has the same issue. For instance, check out the LTE Droid Bionic. It doesn't do voice and data at the same time. There are plenty others. Apple waited for the single chip for two main reasons. First, it uses far less power. Second, it allows Apple to pack more into the phone. The Samsung Galaxy can do it, but the phone is much larger.

The issue really is CDMA as a technology. Hardware manufacturers can make it work over LTE, but there are trade offs in areas like power and space. Apple obviously didn't think the trade off was worth implementing the ability. The decision probably also has to do with the technology still changing as well.

 

[applefan022]

AT&T simultaneous Voice and Data will fall back to HSPA+ not LTE when this is being done. But it's sure better than not doing it at all.

 

[Terrin]

Deal breaker for me. I use data and voice all the time

Unless you have one of a few brand new LTE phones, you don't do it on Verizon or Sprint unless you are getting the data from wi-fi. The iPhone can use voice and data at the same time if getting the data from wi-fi.

If you are on AT&T or T-Mobile (like me), you can get voice and data at the same time on the cellular network.

 

[D.T.]

So does this iPhone 5 support VoLTE, if Verizon actives it sometime soon (aka before the release of the next iPhone)?

Great question, thought I'd quote it to bring attention to it.

 

[Sandman1969]

Full disclosure: current AT&T customer and wasn't planning on switching. But I honestly wonder how many people actually use this feature?

I conciously remember using this feature maybe three times in the past several years.

I use it ALL the time.

Can't wait to see my buddy who always touts Verizon being better. He said "He can do simultaneous voice over LTE"...

Well technically you can't... it is splitting the data and voice over two networks..

Don't blame Apple not wanting to support too many hardware configurations...

 

[KPOM]

I like and trust AnandTech. I will check out the article but have read the important excerpts. I hate the limitation by the carrier in this issue in the past. I went with a 4S because of adopting the Apple ecosystem, but my main objective was to be on board with a fully integrated LTE Apple device to cover what ever situations may arise. The LTE iPhone was supposed to bridge that gap, and we find out a day later that bridge has a major roadblock that really was not addressed in the keynote. So in my eyes why reward Apple because they got most everything else right except one of the main features LTE would have solved for my personal usage? I know my meager $850 and change won't mean much on their multi billion dollar P&L statement, but at some point we the consumer have to take a stand...

Apple has to please a lot of audiences. Consider the complaints when the new iPad didn't get LTE support for Europe or Australia. The iPhone 5 fixes that complaint, partly because the design compromise that left out SVDO for Verizon enables them to add LTE support for Europe in the same device.

 

[CubusX]

Bull..

This was one of the main features I was looking forward to and I cannot use it? Sorry Verizon, its been nice knowing you.

 

[NKT]

VoLTE isn't slated for roll out until Q4 2013 at the earliest. There are a ton of technical issues that need to be addressed and solved before it's ready for commercial use (e.g. QoS, latency, etc.). Add to that, the LTE network overlay will be completed by then allowing for a much improved customer experience when using VoLTE as there will be no CS-FB.

I like Anand's article on the reasons for the lack of simultaneous voice/data:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6295/...ous-voice-and-lte-or-evdo-svlte-svdo-support-

In a way this is good for Verizon Wireless. For users that want this feature, it will push them into less costly devices for the company. This will help their financials as they (and all carriers) pay a huge amount to Apple for each iPhone.

 

[Scrub175]

VoLTE won't be supported with the iPhone 5 as well. Hmm. I would love the LTE speed but again Apple has made this version a generation behind and further away from future network changes. I call this is bs. If they were really driving evolution of the network then future standards should be included like VoLTE. This generation is a money grab and not truly trying to innovate or lead a network evolution.

 

[Nabooly]

I don't care how ancient CDMA is, I want at least good reception in the city I live in no matter where I go in it. Verizon is the only one that can accomplish this. I've tried Sprint (complete joke) and ATT (faster speeds than vzw but reception is very spotty).

Anyway, I can't wait until VoLTE rolls out! That's gunna be the sweet spot!

 

[tCdemon]

I can't speak to your voice comments about AT&T other then no one I have ever talked to or in my own experience, has had issues with AT&T voice. Its common to whine on this forum about it, but the statistical data show that all the networks have very similar call drop rates. Its cellular and that come with mobility and switching towers, etc.

Your comment about data however are factually incorrect. Verizon's CDMA network is the slowest network in America. AT&Ts 4G network is the Largest in American. Verizons LTE is the largest "LTE" network and AT&T's LTE network is twice as fast as Verizon's LTE. You specifically mentioned the CDMA and 3G/4G (Non-LTE). Here is a sample of what Verizon provides you. Not sure how having two bands is helping their data speed.

iPhone 4S Speedtest.net #1 Midwest:
Verizon iPhone 4S: 1.26 Mbps download, .46 Mbps upload
AT&T iPhone 4S: 6.18 Mbps download, 1.50 Mbps upload

iPhone 4S Speedtest.net #2 Midwest:
Verizon iPhone 4S: .61 Mbps, .49 Mbps upload
AT&T iPhone 4s: 6.30 Mbps, 1.65 Mbps upload

iPhone 4S Speedtest.net #3 Midwest:
Verizon iPhone 4S: 1.01 Mbps download, .54 Mbps upload
AT&T iPhone 4S: 6.18 Mbps download, 1.68 Mbps upload

Bottom line again is that while Verizon started their older technology LTE network (1/2 the speed of AT&Ts), AT&T was completing their 4G network buildout. Now AT&T has the largest 4G network, significantly faster than Verizon. Now AT&T is building a LTE network. Obviously it is behind Verizon in buildout because they started later, choosing to finish the 4G buildout. The advantage is that AT&T is building a more advanced network that has twice the speed as Verizon's larger one.

My prediction (its kinda obvious) is that Verizon will start a new network that will be smaller (less rolled out) and faster then AT&T. This is how it works.

So when people rip on AT&T, it is a sign of just not understanding the mobility markets.

I have had AT&T for a decade and they have been nothing less than stellar in their performance and their customer service, even when I personally disagreed with a charge/bill.

Let me correct you, you can't compared AT&T 3G HSPA+ network ("4G" is what most people and AT&T calls it) to Verizon 3G CDMA. Why? Because Verizon doesn't have HSPA+ comparable network. You should compare HSPA+ networks with other HSPA+ networks, like Sprint and T-Moble. There's a reason why Verizon never went back and upgraded their 3G networks to run a bit faster, it's a waste of money and time that can be spent on LTE. Just like 2G service, 3G will bc the fall back to 4G LTE.

You should do the Speed Test on iPhone 4 not the iPhone 4S.

And I also have had Verizon for 10 years (next month actually). With several AT&T work phones and let me tell you Verizon is way more reliable, but I guess is that old CDMA technology that makes it reliable, dam this reliable old technology network, why does it have to be old!!!

Call drop out, similar? You think AT&T 5.8% vs Verizon 2.2% is similar? Wow.

 

[citi]

Google downloads the entire route when you enter it. You can lose cellular connection entirely and turn by turn will still work as long as you don't veer off course. I haven't heard how Apple is handling it.

Probably the same way TomTom handles it.

 

[maccompatible]

FWIW, I just chatted with an agent on Verizon's website. She said that the new iPhone perfectly supports simultaneous voice and data.

 

[Scrub175]

Apple has to please a lot of audiences. Consider the complaints when the new iPad didn't get LTE support for Europe or Australia. The iPhone 5 fixes that complaint, partly because the design compromise that left out SVDO for Verizon enables them to add LTE support for Europe in the same device.

I do appreciate your positive and insightful feedback. It's very fair to say I'm still on the fence but will end up caving to getting the iPhone 5. With strenuous objection, for the record...

 

[Rocketman]

Article:

An Apple spokeswoman told The Times, "It is not yet possible to do simultaneous voice and data on networks that use CDMA for voice and LTE for data in a single radio design."

From the Times:

So why does Verizon's Samsung Galaxy S III, a 4G LTE phone, juggle calls and data? Samsung added an extra antenna so that it pulls data from the 4G LTE network at the same time that it's using another antenna to do voice, said Anand Shimpi, editor in chief of AnandTech.

Then why didn't Apple add another antenna? It actually already has two antennas in an effort to improve reception, and it would have had to add a third antenna just for Verizon and Sprint phones to give them simultaneous data and calls, Mr. Shimpi explained. Leaving that third antenna out allows Apple to simplify its manufacturing process of the iPhone for multiple carriers. Plus, in the next two years the 4G LTE network is supposed to evolve to support voice calls, which would render another antenna unnecessary later.


LTE is fully capable of supporting simultaneous voice and data right this second using VoIP for voice.

Carriers REFUSE to enable that feature available on every iPhone ever, because it would impact the revenue stream from charging a separate and large fee for metered voice services.

The networks have been fully capable of supporting VoIP and data since they were installed with EDGE/2.5G sometime before 2004.

By sometime next week, every carrier that supports 2, 3, 4G data or LTE could give APPLE permission to do a software update to make VoIP the primary voice facility on iPhone and offer ALL voice, text, and data services over data signals alone.

Rocketman

 

[Scrub175]

Article:

An Apple spokeswoman told The Times, "It is not yet possible to do simultaneous voice and data on networks that use CDMA for voice and LTE for data in a single radio design."

From the Times:

So why does Verizon's Samsung Galaxy S III, a 4G LTE phone, juggle calls and data? Samsung added an extra antenna so that it pulls data from the 4G LTE network at the same time that it's using another antenna to do voice, said Anand Shimpi, editor in chief of AnandTech.

Then why didn't Apple add another antenna? It actually already has two antennas in an effort to improve reception, and it would have had to add a third antenna just for Verizon and Sprint phones to give them simultaneous data and calls, Mr. Shimpi explained. Leaving that third antenna out allows Apple to simplify its manufacturing process of the iPhone for multiple carriers. Plus, in the next two years the 4G LTE network is supposed to evolve to support voice calls, which would render another antenna unnecessary later.


LTE is fully capable of supporting simultaneous voice and data right this second using VoIP for voice.

Carriers REFUSE to enable that feature available on every iPhone ever, because it would impact the revenue stream from charging a separate and large fee for metered voice services.

The networks have been fully capable of supporting VoIP and data since they were installed with EDGE/2.5G sometime before 2004.

By sometime next week, every carrier that supports 2, 3, 4G data or LTE could give APPLE permission to do a software update to make VoIP the primary voice facility on iPhone and offer ALL voice, text, and data services over data signals alone.

Rocketman

The AnandTech article specifically states this iteration of iPhone does not support VoLTE so one would assume a software update would not reverse this...

 

[Rocketman]

The AnandTech article specifically states this iteration of iPhone does not support VoLTE so one would assume a software update would not reverse this...

VoLTE is an LTE protocol. VoIP is an IP protocol and works on any data signal or line that uses "internet".

Rocketman

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Do Verizon people realize that the whole CDMA network is a cluster because is ancient?

The only reason for why manufacturers keep on releasing CDMA phones is because Verizon exists. The technology on their network is so old, but so big, that rebuilding it would be absurdly impossible. But until then, Verizon people will always have phones with limited functionality. Largest network, but ancient technology.

And yet the GSM network is older..... Edge is based on an even older techology and edge is still in use.

 

[Scrub175]

VoLTE is an LTE protocol. VoIP is an IP protocol and works on any data signal or line that uses "internet".

Rocketman

Ah yes. Thank you. My eyes are still blurry and watery from yesterdays revelation. So the new iPhone could support SVD if VoIP was enabled?

 

[wkadamsjr]

That really sucks. It would definitely be a deal-breaker for me if I were considering them as a carrier. People can bash AT&T all they want but I have never had bad customer service, billing problems, or issues with my voice or data failing me. I guess I'm one of the lucky few.

Same here. I have never understood all the hatred with AT&T, as I know several family members who have had horrible experiences with Verizon.

My experience with AT&T (over 4 years now), has been nothing but good.

 

[Scrub175]

That could make google voice a player in this...

 

[travishill]

The AnandTech article specifically states this iteration of iPhone does not support VoLTE so one would assume a software update would not reverse this...

While the FCC form says it isn't supported, that could mean the software doesn't currently support it (because almost no networks do). It doesn't necessarily mean the hardware is incapable. Software updates have triggered re-tests on same hardware in the past...

 

[Medic311]

i choose Verizon over AT&T (or any GSM carrier for that matter) any day. i work in thick concrete buildings, reinforced with steel rebar and all of my co-worker's phones turn into bricks for 9 hours each day. why would i pay for service that i CAN'T use 56.25% of the time i am awake each weekday?

i am not the only one who shares this frustration with GSM, and while my situation seems like an extreme case i have other friends who work in regular buildings who can't use data while in their office building. i wouldn't put up with that level of poor service, especially when it's something that cannot be improved as it's inherently this way with GSM.

now with that said, there are many areas where Verizon's signal is weak and AT&T's is strong. there will always be exceptions to the rule, but Verizon does have stronger, more consistent coverage throughout the entire USA. i am willing to pay for that, despite the slower data speeds and the inability to talk / surf at the same time.

----------

And yet the GSM network is older..... Edge is based on an even older techology and edge is still in use.

CDMA is older than GSM.

back in mid 90's when analog networks were switched over to digital, it was CDMA and TDMA. GSM replaced TDMA

 

[lilo777]

Unless you have one of a few brand new LTE phones, you don't do it on Verizon or Sprint unless you are getting the data from wi-fi. The iPhone can use voice and data at the same time if getting the data from wi-fi.

If you are on AT&T or T-Mobile (like me), you can get voice and data at the same time on the cellular network.

"Few brand new"? Like any LTE phone released in the last year (if not earlier)? Regardless, what's your point? iPhone 5 design is clearly inferior to other LTE smartphones which do have more radios and antennas.

 

[Taz Mangus]

"Few brand new"? Like any LTE phone released in the last year (if not earlier)? Regardless, what's your point? iPhone 5 design is clearly inferior to other LTE smartphones which do have more radios and antennas.

Yep a inferior design that is going to be a sales flop