Carrier Verizon will require data plans to stay on a line for its full contract duration.

[aneftp]

It's funny how you call this "The big picture" and it really isn't the big picture. The situation you describe isn't even really a big problem for the majority of people. The percentage of people who want to have a smartphone with no data plan is VERY SMALL. Most people who get a smart get it to be able to use it everywhere. They want a data plan to be able to do that.

That being said, this is a loophole that Verizon is very smart to close. If you buy a subsidized iPhone, Verizon is dropping the price of the phone from $650 down to $199... Actual wait... iPhone 5S is on sale for $99 right now at Verizon. That is a $550 subsidy.

If you do the add a line swap and remove the data plan from the added line, Verizon will only bring in $240 over the course of 2 years. They lose money on this deal.

Making you keep the data, Verizon brings in $960 for that line over the course of 2 years. $410 profit... Which is still a pretty slim profit considering that the added line still could possibly access the network for phone calls or SMS. (Like if you gave the added line to a grandparent ...etc on a flip phone.)

Every phone accessing the network is a cost for Verizon.

So what about the single line that pays $40-70 a month with a flip phone? Verizon basically ripping them off? Even if they buy a smartphone and switch to flip phone.

If they have 450 minute basic plans. That's $40 x 24 months. That's $960 over two years. Verizon more than made their money off these customers even if they "subsidize" an iPhone at $450. That's assuming zero text plans as well.

And oh please. Verizon or the other big carriers do not pay "full MSRP" price for iPhones in "bulk". We all know Apple discounts (not much). But Apple generally discounts 10-15% when you buy their products in "bulk". The US Govt gets around 10-15% off buying iPads that was recently published.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...llion-award-for-as-many-as-18-000-ipad2s.html

That's the US govt buying just 18000 iPads 32GB for a 14% discount.

Just imagine if Verizon has a 5 million iPhones 5S orders. I can pretty much assure you Verizon ain't paying full MSRP $650 price for those iPhones.

So Verizon is pretty much confirming what we all know. Those "highly inflated subscriber numbers" are misleading. There are millions of "ghost" lines at the $9.99 add a line pricing with no data plans.

Look I own Verizon stock. I follow the company very closely. Verizon stopped reporting subscriber number about 2 years ago but revenue was decreasing per subscriber line. That's why Verizon went to reporting revenue per account instead of per subscriber.

It's no longer who has the most subs in the industry (that was the 2003-2010 race between ATT/Cingular and Verizon). Know it's focusing on pushing data plans for profits since they can't make any money off voice or texts any more.

 

[I7guy]

Keep drinking the cool aid.
It's nothing like buying or leasing a car.
If you sell the car or it gets stolen you don't continue to pay insurance on it for years.
But keep making excuses for them.
You are the perfect customer to them. Keep getting worst terms by your carrier and make excuses for them instead and love everything they do.
Keep supporting them

Not quite true about the car. The car gets paid off in case of loss and YOU are responsible for the unpaid balance when financing;; which is the reason most startes require a minimum amount of insurance.

With a phone, your insurance will cover a replacement. If you buy the phone outright, there is no issue; you just can't expect the carrier to subsidize a phone and then not expect a return for doing so. VZW always alloed you to bring your own verizon device and open a line without a contract.

I frankly am not bothered by this policy change, even though you think "I am drinking cool aid and supporting them". I've never tried to rip off my carrier. If people think this policy is so draconion, there are alternatives.

 

[aPple nErd]

that settles it! switching to att. needed one more reason. here it is.

 

[I7guy]

So what about the single line that pays $40-70 a month with a flip phone? Verizon basically ripping them off? Even if they buy a smartphone and switch to flip phone.

If they have 450 minute basic plans. That's $40 x 24 months. That's $960 over two years. Verizon more than made their money off these customers even if they "subsidize" an iPhone at $450. That's assuming zero text plans as well.

And oh please. Verizon or the other big carriers do not pay "full MSRP" price for iPhones in "bulk". We all know Apple discounts (not much). But Apple generally discounts 10-15% when you buy their products in "bulk". The US Govt gets around 10-15% off buying iPads that was recently published.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...llion-award-for-as-many-as-18-000-ipad2s.html

That's the US govt buying just 18000 iPads 32GB for a 14% discount.

Just imagine if Verizon has a 5 million iPhones 5S orders. I can pretty much assure you Verizon ain't paying full MSRP $650 price for those iPhones.

So Verizon is pretty much confirming what we all know. Those "highly inflated subscriber numbers" are misleading. There are millions of "ghost" lines at the $9.99 add a line pricing with no data plans.

Look I own Verizon stock. I follow the company very closely. Verizon stopped reporting subscriber number about 2 years ago but revenue was decreasing per subscriber line. That's why Verizon went to reporting revenue per account instead of per subscriber.

It's no longer who has the most subs in the industry (that was the 2003-2010 race between ATT/Cingular and Verizon). Know it's focusing on pushing data plans for profits since they can't make any money off voice or texts any more.

So are you trying to justify your feelings on this new policy by trying to justify discounts and what your believe VZW makes?

Owning Verizon stock, hopefully you follow Verizon and VZW closely, should make you happy about this change; your stock and/or dividend should go up due to increased revenue. Being a stock owner and knowing the in and outs of the wireless industry though, you do know you can buy your phone through apple and attach it to your account, cutting VZW out of the sale. It's normal for most companies making a bulk purchase to receive a discount; I know several who did.

I'm not really sure as a shareholder why you don't view this in a positive light. I sold my Verizon stock a while back (at an opportune time), but this should be great news for you.

----------

that settles it! switching to att. needed one more reason. here it is.

Let us know when you reach the other side. Maybe AT&T policies are more geared toward those who might want to scam the system. Good luck.

 

[thehustleman]

Just another money making manuever by Verizon.

If they are forcing people who buy subsidized phones to carry data for 2 years.

Than people who pay full price (or eBay/Craigslist) for their smartphones should have right to opt out of data plans altogether and have data block.

What's fair is fair? Right?

Tmobile USA used to force data plans on subsidized smartphones. But they let you opt out of data requirements if you brought your own phone full price.

And let's stop this BS about "it's a smartphone and you will lose the experience of smartphones if you don't have data crap".

If you are around wifi 80-90% of the day. You don't really need cellular data.

This is one thing that ISN'T just a money grab from Verizon.

They give you a 650 phone, you pay 200, add a line for only 10 bucks, that's only 440 dollars they got back over the life of the contract. That's a 210 dollar LOSS on their part, not to mention the added costs for the actual service. We'll never know what it costs to provide service, they won't tell that because they don't want us to know their profit margin aka how much we are being raped.



So no this isn't a money grab, it's something I'm surprised they aren't smart enough to do earlier

 

[aneftp]

that settles it! switching to att. needed one more reason. here it is.

I don't think att allows you to sign up for legacy plans anymore. Correct me if i am wrong. So moving to att won't solve the problem.

They are all moving towards mobile sharing plans. And you don't save anything using a flip phone on a mobile sharing plan if you do the subsidy model (att will charge u $25/extra per line per month if under a subsidy model).

----------

So are you trying to justify your feelings on this new policy by trying to justify discounts and what your believe VZW makes?

Owning Verizon stock, hopefully you follow Verizon and VZW closely, should make you happy about this change; your stock and/or dividend should go up due to increased revenue. Being a stock owner and knowing the in and outs of the wireless industry though, you do know you can buy your phone through apple and attach it to your account, cutting VZW out of the sale. It's normal for most companies making a bulk purchase to receive a discount; I know several who did.

I'm not really sure as a shareholder why you don't view this in a positive light. I sold my Verizon stock a while back (at an opportune time), but this should be great news for you.

----------



Let us know when you reach the other side. Maybe AT&T policies are more geared toward those who might want to scam the system. Good luck.

I am sure att will move towards a similar requirement as verizon. These two carriers seem to copy each other a lot and it's been that way for at least the last 5-7 years.

(First Verizon requiring data on all smartphones. Than ATT requiring data on all smartphones (before ATT didn't have that requirement back in 2009 I believe give or take).

Than att eliminating unlimited data and verizon following att a few months later.

Yes. As a Verizon shareholder (I got in when it was in the 30s but keep the stock for its dividends as well). Sure it's good news.

But I like to play fair and balance analysis. And show both sides. Verizon bottom line is trying to force most people over to mobile sharing. Those seem to be more lucrative and they can muddle their quarterly reports by saying "revenue per account" is growing much easier with mobile sharing than with the older legacy plans.

 

[I7guy]

I don't think att allows you to sign up for legacy plans anymore. Correct me if i am wrong. So moving to att won't solve the problem.

They are all moving towards mobile sharing plans. And you don't save anything using a flip phone on a mobile sharing plan if you do the subsidy model (att will charge u $25/extra per line per month if under a subsidy model).

----------



I am sure att will move towards a similar requirement as verizon. These two carriers seem to copy each other a lot and it's been that way for at least the last 5-7 years.

(First Verizon requiring data on all smartphones. Than ATT requiring data on all smartphones (before ATT didn't have that requirement back in 2009 I believe give or take).

Than att eliminating unlimited data and verizon following att a few months later.

Yes. As a Verizon shareholder (I got in when it was in the 30s but keep the stock for its dividends as well). Sure it's good news.

But I like to play fair and balance analysis. And show both sides. Verizon bottom line is trying to force most people over to mobile sharing. Those seem to be more lucrative and they can muddle their quarterly reports by saying "revenue per account" is growing much easier with mobile sharing than with the older legacy plans.

I haven't given up my old legacy plan yet. Yes, the carriers seem to copy another. (If only tmo had better coverage where I go in this big ol' country....)

 

[Applejuiced]

Not quite true about the car. The car gets paid off in case of loss and YOU are responsible for the unpaid balance when financing;; which is the reason most startes require a minimum amount of insurance.

With a phone, your insurance will cover a replacement. If you buy the phone outright, there is no issue; you just can't expect the carrier to subsidize a phone and then not expect a return for doing so. VZW always alloed you to bring your own verizon device and open a line without a contract.

I frankly am not bothered by this policy change, even though you think "I am drinking cool aid and supporting them". I've never tried to rip off my carrier. If people think this policy is so draconion, there are alternatives.

Your car insurance example has nothing to do with a cellphone period.
If your phone gets damaged,lost or stolen or you switch phones you will continue to pay for an iphone data plan for a very long time while using an old flip phone. Does that make sense to you?

 

[Newtons Apple]

Just another money making manuever by Verizon.

If they are forcing people who buy subsidized phones to carry data for 2 years.

Than people who pay full price (or eBay/Craigslist) for their smartphones should have right to opt out of data plans altogether and have data block.

What's fair is fair? Right?

Tmobile USA used to force data plans on subsidized smartphones. But they let you opt out of data requirements if you brought your own phone full price.

And let's stop this BS about "it's a smartphone and you will lose the experience of smartphones if you don't have data crap".

If you are around wifi 80-90% of the day. You don't really need cellular data.

Like you said what is fair is fair Right ?

Can't blame Verizon, not even a little bit.

 

[Daniel L]

Would have to close my extra dumb phone line down if AT&T followed suit.

 

[I7guy]

Your car insurance example has nothing to do with a cellphone period.
If your phone gets damaged,lost or stolen or you switch phones you will continue to pay for an iphone data plan for a very long time while using an old flip phone. Does that make sense to you?

Does it make sense to YOU, if you get an $800 retail phone for $199 from Verizon; thereby saving $600 you are on the hook for a 2 year contract period. It is not Verizon's responsibility of what you do with the phone or how it's handled or whether it's lost or stolen. YOU are responsible for that phone and line.

In the case of a car whether leased or financed YOU are responsible for the outstanding balance. For example: that the car was eaten by a sinkhole and you say it's not my fault about this, is in no way acceptable to the lien holder. You owe the outstanding balance to the lien holder; which is usually accomplished via some form of gap insurance and comprehensive.

In the case of a lost of stolen phone, having insurance like Asurion helps mitigate the cost. But you are on the hook for the duration of the contract; which is why it's called a contract.

Hope I was clearer than in the previous post.

 

[Applejuiced]

Its up to me to decide when and if I want to change devices and plans at any time I want. The contract I signed with my carrier states that I'm locked to them for 2 years of wireless service not 2 years of iphone data plan genius.
And no I will not put insurance on my phone and pay a monthly premium on top of that.
Keep up with your nonsense logic though, you sound like a verizon salesman

Does it make sense to YOU, if you get an $800 retail phone for $199 from Verizon; thereby saving $600 you are on the hook for a 2 year contract period. It is not Verizon's responsibility of what you do with the phone or how it's handled or whether it's lost or stolen. YOU are responsible for that phone and line.

In the case of a car whether leased or financed YOU are responsible for the outstanding balance. For example: that the car was eaten by a sinkhole and you say it's not my fault about this, is in no way acceptable to the lien holder. You owe the outstanding balance to the lien holder; which is usually accomplished via some form of gap insurance and comprehensive.

In the case of a lost of stolen phone, having insurance like Asurion helps mitigate the cost. But you are on the hook for the duration of the contract; which is why it's called a contract.

Hope I was clearer than in the previous post.

 

[Looon]

Just another money making manuever by Verizon.

If they are forcing people who buy subsidized phones to carry data for 2 years.

Than people who pay full price (or eBay/Craigslist) for their smartphones should have right to opt out of data plans altogether and have data block.

What's fair is fair? Right?

Tmobile USA used to force data plans on subsidized smartphones. But they let you opt out of data requirements if you brought your own phone full price.

And let's stop this BS about "it's a smartphone and you will lose the experience of smartphones if you don't have data crap".

If you are around wifi 80-90% of the day. You don't really need cellular data.

Wow you mean a business is trying to make money? How evil of them

 

[I7guy]

Its up to me to decide when and if I want to change devices and plans at any time I want. The contract I signed with my carrier states that I'm locked to them for 2 years of wireless service not 2 years of iphone data plan genius.
And no I will not put insurance on my phone and pay a monthly premium on top of that.
Keep up with your nonsense logic though, you sound like a verizon salesman

What is "iphone data plan genuis" or maybe "ex-iphone data plan genius"? Someone who can no longer play fast and free with Verizons money?

The TOS is changed starting 8/24; you buy a phone on subsidy and you are locked in for two years. So don't buy insurance; no skin off my back.

Hey whether or not I'm a verizon salesman as you say: "keep up with your nonsense logic" and good luck with the new terms of service.

I guess I wasn't clear enough in my post, because you still managed to post nonsense that has nothing to do with anything, except calling yourself an "iphone data plan genius".

 

[Applejuiced]

Not even going to bother responding to your childish posts any more since you're avoiding the point and attacking my wording instead.
Enjoy kissing up to verizon for whatever reason you do. While they're charging their customers more, giving them less, removing any customer choices and options and many more anticompetitive practices that go against government rules and regulations.
But there's some like you that sit there and make excuses for them and follow them like a cult
I'll never give them a penny of my money and the way they're treating their customers it will come back to them sooner or later.
Goodnight.

 

[kdarling]

Wow, more anti-consumer practices by verizon. I'm not suprised at all with what they keep coming up to line up their pockets.

So if someone gets a smartphone and then decides to switch back to regular phone or the smartphone gets lost/stolen they're stuck paying a smartphone data plan for 2 years while using a dumbphone.
That's ridiculous.
Most greedy and worst carrier ever...

What's ridiculous is the idea that someone should get a $650 smartphone for $200 upfront and then escape repaying the balance.

So okay. How about this?

A fair alternative is that the moment you drop the data plan, you either have to pay off the rest of the phone via an ETF, or must continue to pay an extra ~$10 a month just to pay back for the smartphone (but with no data plan).

 

[firefighterk]

plan

does a legacy plan mean plans with unlimited data?

 

[kdarling]

does a legacy plan mean plans with unlimited data?

It would include those of us with unlimited data plans, yes.

Which means I should go ahead and get a new smartphone before the new rule goes into effect

Like others, I was surprised (and pleased) that this loophole lasted as long as it did... but nobody should be at all surprised or shocked that it's finally ending.

 

[I7guy]

Not even going to bother responding to your childish posts any more since you're avoiding the point and attacking my wording instead.
Enjoy kissing up to verizon for whatever reason you do. While they're charging their customers more, giving them less, removing any customer choices and options and many more anticompetitive practices that go against government rules and regulations.
But there's some like you that sit there and make excuses for them and follow them like a cult
I'll never give them a penny of my money and the way they're treating their customers it will come back to them sooner or later.
Goodnight.

Pot kettle thing? So you are not a VZW customer? You're just angry they changed their TOS?

 

[Applejuiced]

What's ridiculous is the idea that someone should get a $650 smartphone for $200 upfront and then escape repaying the balance.

So okay. How about this?

A fair alternative is that the moment you drop the data plan, you either have to pay off the rest of the phone via an ETF, or must continue to pay an extra ~$10 a month just to pay back for the smartphone (but with no data plan).

Where does it say that you have to somehow pay back the phone subsidy by having a data plan? Or for decades where there wasn't any data plans or smartphones but cellphones still cost $500-600 off contract. And that's not even to consider that really a $650 device to us does not cost $650 to a carrier that sells millions of them each year and has a contract with Apple.
Like they only make money on data? Not on monthly voice plans or outrageous texting packages or plans in general?
Sorry, I don't feel bad for them at all.
Not after posting millions of profits every quarter. Poor them.
I will never tie myself up to such terms, and hope not many will either.
I think the un carrier, unsubsidized model that Tmobile is standing for will take off even more in the US and all these games that the 2 big US carriers play for years will eventually fall apart.

----------

Pot kettle thing? So you are not a VZW customer? You're just angry they changed their TOS?

Just posting my opinion, that's all.
Its crazy what they come up with year after year to nickel and dime their customers.

 

[firefighterk]

data

i have used this loop hole the past couple of years now. my question is i have 3 iphones with the unlimted data on them if i upgrade phone 1 line lets say and put a new data plan lets say 2 gb and then move the new iphone phone to phone line 2 does phone line 2 loose there unlimited data?

 

[I7guy]

i have used this loop hole the past couple of years now. my question is i have 3 iphones with the unlimted data on them if i upgrade phone 1 line lets say and put a new data plan lets say 2 gb and then move the new iphone phone to phone line 2 does phone line 2 loose there unlimited data?

I'm gonna guess phone line 2 will keep unlimited data, but you are stuck paying data charges on phone line 1 for two years. And your going to need a data plan on phone line 2. Pretty much kills the update and switch lines loophole.

 

[firefighterk]

I'm gonna guess phone line 2 will keep unlimited data, but you are stuck paying data charges on phone line 1 for two years. And your going to need a data plan on phone line 2. Pretty much kills the update and switch lines loophole.

the reason i ask is line 1 only uses 1 gb a month while line 2 (mine) use 12gb if i upgrade line 1 to the std 2gb a month plan i can keep my unlimited and get the new phone

 

[kdarling]

Where does it say that you have to somehow pay back the phone subsidy by having a data plan? Or for decades where there wasn't any data plans or smartphones but cellphones still cost $500-600 off contract.

I don't know about decades, but yes a lot of us used to use smartphones over WiFi. As I've noted before, Verizon didn't even start requiring a data plan until after they saw how customers were okay with it because of the iPhone on AT&T.

And that's not even to consider that really a $650 device to us does not cost $650 to a carrier that sells millions of them each year and has a contract with Apple.

Actually, it almost does. That's why carriers don't like subsidizing the iPhone. They have to pay near retail for each one.

Like they only make money on data? Not on monthly voice plans or outrageous texting packages or plans in general?

I don't think you understand the scenario.

A lot of us who are in this particular situation, have extra phone lines that only cost $10 a month. In my case, my wife and a young child had flip phones.

So what happens is that I could get a subsidized updated phone every two years from both of their lines.

The $10 per line that I was paying would pay back the phones, and leave Verizon nothing for the service itself.

Its crazy what they come up with year after year to nickel and dime their customers.

This was quite the opposite. They were letting us customers quarter and dollar the carrier.

 

[jnappleseed]

Long live the best buy loophole

What's the Best Buy loophole?