Very disappointing

[shinobi-81]

Read henrylkr's post above mine, and it should snap into focus for you.

I have read it. Just because the software industry arbitrarily decided to use the word "pirate" about those who duplicate copyrighted material, it doesn't mean that "pirates" (in this context) are thieves. I assume this is the kind of pirates were discussing, and not the ones at sea. Don't try to twist the semantics here.


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And how do you think manufacturers and engineers would fare if everyone could clone their buddy's car, drive it around for a while, and come pay for one when and if they feel like it?

As long as the person who cloned the actually paid for it after a short while, I think many of the manufacturers would be OK with it. I know I would, and I'd certainly not call it stealing. They would probably be pissed at those who cloned without ever paying, but then again, so would I.

 

[Nanook]

Correct - I'm in Atlanta, and we call it "soda". My dad's family in Pittsburgh, PA (go Steelers) call it "pop" almost without exception. All depends on where you live...

Map: http://www.popvssoda.com/

Some in MA tend to call it a "tonic," or "dope' in TN or "phosphate" in the North, which is what "pop" is an abbreviation of.

And I am surprised and more than a little mortified the percentage is that high. While I am not above pirating Microsoft or Adobe products, I find it distasteful to do it to individuals or mom & "pop" developers.

 

[EngageWithRage]

To be fair, the prices on some of the apps in Cydia are way to high...my stance on pirating is a neutral one, but i do purchase apps that I find are useful to me whether it be in Cydia or the App Store. I could personally care less if someone pirates an app, what people do is their prerogative and is not my place to pass judgement.

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This thread is hilarious and disappointing at the same time.
You take something without paying for it...but only for a couple of days.
Then plan to abandon it on the cyber-highway.

And that makes it all OK. Sad !

Those doing this ...
Apply this same scenario to someone taking something you value (oh, but they are only taking it for a day or two)

"Apply this same scenario to someone taking something you value (oh, but they are only taking it for a day or two)"

I believe this is called borrowing lol

 

[ZCherub]

As long as the person who cloned the actually paid for it after a short while, I think many of the manufacturers would be OK with it. I know I would, and I'd certainly not call it stealing.

^ How to tell when someone is not a businessman, judge, or lawyer.

Call it what you will, but in any other circumstance in which your actions were visible to the developers or public, you could & would be prosecuted.

Your logic is essentially that you can't be caught so it's not wrong. Pitiable...

 

[shinobi-81]

^ How to tell when someone is not a businessman, judge, or lawyer.

Call it what you will, but in any other circumstance in which your actions were visible to the developers or public, you could & would be prosecuted.

Your logic is essentially that you can't be caught so it's not wrong. Pitiable...

My logic is that as far as the developers get paid for actual use, as opposed to testing within a reasonable timeframe, it's not wrong, caught or not. But there goes my limit too. All use without paying the developers (with the aforementioned exception) is wrong, caught or not.

The above is from a moral point of view. The legal matters concerning prosecution depend on local law, and the participants in this discussion are from several different countries. In other words, I'm not interested in discussing what would happen if someone did this in Nigeria, in Alabama, in Orange county or in Pittsburg. Although there's always a chance that local law (or national/federal law) in all these places conforms to what is morally right, it's naive to presume it does.

By the way, you seem quite hasty to get to insulting conclusions, so I dare to raise a question as to who is more "pitiable".

 

[Che Castro]

He should call the guys over at intelliscreenx ,that thing is hard to crack

 

[ZCherub]

My logic is that as far as the developers get paid for actual use, as opposed to testing within a reasonable timeframe, it's not wrong, caught or not. But there goes my limit too. All use without paying the developers is wrong, caught or not.

The above is from a moral point of view. The legal matters concerning prosecution depend on local law, and the participants in this discussion are from several different countries. In other words, I'm not interested in discussing what would happen if someone did this in Nigeria, in Alabama, in Orange county or in Pittsburg. Although there's always a chance that local law (or national/federal law) in all these places conforms to what is morally right, it's naive to presume it does.

By the way, you seem quite hasty to get to insulting conclusions, so I dare to raise a question as to who is more "pitiable".

Again, the dev set a price for their produvct. If you don't pay it as soon as you start to use that product, you are stealing. It's not a moral issue - I'm pretty sure stealing is illegal almost everywhere. And even if it's not, the usage of the product is governed where the transaction origniates, i.e., on a server in the dev's country of origin - where stealing is illegal.

I'm sorry if that is an "insulting conclusion" - I must confess, I have an aversion to thieves.

 

[shinobi-81]

Again, the dev set a price for their produvct. If you don't pay it as soon as you start to use that product, you are stealing. It's not a moral issue - I'm pretty sure stealing is illegal almost everywhere. And even if it's not, the usage of the product is governed where the transaction origniates, i.e., on a server in the dev's country of origin - where stealing is illegal.

I'm sorry if that is an "insulting conclusion" - I must confess, I have an aversion to thieves.

Stealing is illegal everywhere, but like I have told you before, an EULA-violation does not necessarily constitute an act of stealing.

And again, circular logic is useless for all other purposes than "proving" that blatant lies are true ("it's stealing because it's stealing because those who do it are thieves because what they do is stealing").

 

[ZCherub]

EULA-violation does not necessarily constitute an act of stealing.

Alright - that makes some semblance of sense. I will agree that some of that is not as clearly defined in a legal sense as it should be, and in some areas, may not be technically illegal. Well put.

That said, the developer sets a price, and users decide to take it without paying. End users are not proficient enough with programming to make these tweaks etc. themselves, and the developers are losing incentive to work on them for zero compensation. Legality and morality aside, in what way is this good for the jailbreak scene?

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that many apps are overpriced, even at $0.99, and some developers need to make very minor apps/tweaks available for free. A trial period is also a good idea.

On the other hand, the developers that make great apps like SBSettings, Lockinfo, etc. should be able to ask the modest price that they do for developing such great and widely used apps without getting screwed over by pirates.

 

[socco]

That app is overpriced. I pirated it first and later paid for it, but only because I had the extra money laying around.

 

[ZCherub]

That app is overpriced. I pirated it first and later paid for it, but only because I had the extra money laying around.

That was generous of you to pay for something you took and all. What a swell guy...

 

[shinobi-81]

That app is overpriced. I pirated it first and later paid for it, but only because I had the extra money laying around.

Had you not had the money when you knew you intended to keep using the app, then I certainly hope you would still have deleted the app right away.

 

[balamw]

I was only a kid (about 10) when pirating came into existence

This made me laugh, because I suspect that you aren't that old.

From 1976. Bill Gates' Open Letter to Hobbyists.

DRM and methods for removing DRM for software for personal computers have been around since shortly after that. There was LOTS of piracy around in the Apple II days with sneakernet distribution.

B

 

[terraphantm]

So because you disagree with the way the developers sell their product, it's okay to steal it for a few days? Idiocy.

The proper way to display your displeasure is to boycott the "greedy devs" and deprive them of whatever income they would make - not to steal the intellectual property.

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And how do you think manufacturers and engineers would fare if everyone could clone their buddy's car, drive it around for a while, and come pay for one when and if they feel like it?

Apps are a product, and they have a price attached to them that the makers of said product apply. To take them without paying the set price is stealing. There is no justification.

The fact that you may pay for it later, or that it's only for a few days, or that you disagree with the developers not offering a trial period, or that everyone is doing it is irrelivent. If you take something without paying for it, at that exact moment, you are a thief.

I was just responding to the fallacy in the logic of that frequently repeated argument. Piracy isn't "good", but it is not analogous to theft. And honestly, the effect of being able to copy a car would have on the auto industry is probably about the same as the effect the used market has. In either case, the engineers (and everyone else involved) don't make a cent. This is especially true for video game sales.

I also didn't say I pirate stuff. All I said is I choose not to buy anything because of the limitations (as in, I choose to just use free apps).

 

[brockd]

I bought springtomize 1 then months later I was told if I wanted it with ios5 I would have to rebuy it. I didn't.

 

[HickDead]

I bought springtomize 1 then months later I was told if I wanted it with ios5 I would have to rebuy it. I didn't.

Good for you. Developer's who play these BS games need to be put in their place. The only way to do so is giving them a big "FU" when they try to pull crap like this.

No wonder Springtomize's developer is the one crying about "pirating" the loudest. What a tool.

 

[terraphantm]

I bought springtomize 1 then months later I was told if I wanted it with ios5 I would have to rebuy it. I didn't.

This is one thing I really hate about the cydia store (and another reason why I try to just manage on free apps) - it seems like every app makes you buy it again whenever there's a new iOS release.

 

[wassabi987]

Walk into a convenience store and take 5 or 6 candy bars without paying. If you like any of them, come back and give the clerk a couple of buck to show what a good guy you are. After all, you'll "save tons of money", so it must not be stealing. See how that works for you...

Apps are not in an inventory with a finite number, software and candy bars are not comparable lol

 

[HickDead]

Apps are not in an inventory with a finite number, software and candy bars are not comparable lol

Exactly. Beyond absurd comparison. Apparently some folks will go to desperate measures in order to make a point for their pathetic cause.

And what's up with the "Moral Police?" I love how some of these dudes act like they've never done anything "unethical" in their perfect little lives. Please.

Get off your high horses. There are worse things out there than "pirating" some stupid JB apps. Let's keep things in perspective here. Nobody committed an actual "crime" for Buddha's sake.

 

[bandofbrothers]

When I first jailbroke I started to search out tweaks via u tube and followed instructions on inputting repo's without knowing what this meant. And off I went downloading pirated and paid tweaks until I came across forum chatter on this subject.

As discussed before a trial period in apps would be great as this gives the end user chance to test it out before purchasing the full licence.

I've now reformed and pay for my tweaks but if I did come across a paid tweak that interested me but was 100% posative it would greater my user experience I may be tempted to get the cracked version to try it and then delete it and pay for it if I wanted to continue.

As developers don't patent their work their is no recourse for them to take action which is a real shame ref the work put into these tweaks !

 

[Bl0ckHe1d]

What can they do? How do they stop it?

If the devs are as clever as they are made out to be - perhaps a nice piece of coding within the app itself that can differentiate between a "pirated" version and a "paid for" version using a simple "if" command.

IF it is a "pirated" version then the coding will execute a command to render the iDevice completely useless, forcing the user to perform a complete restore via iTunes!

Sods law!

 

[ZCherub]

Exactly. Beyond absurd comparison. Apparently some folks will go to desperate measures in order to make a point for their pathetic cause.

And what's up with the "Moral Police?" I love how some of these dudes act like they've never done anything "unethical" in their perfect little lives. Please.

Get off your high horses. There are worse things out there than "pirating" some stupid JB apps. Let's keep things in perspective here. Nobody committed an actual "crime" for Buddha's sake.

Great logic there, champ. "I've done worse before, and there are worse things in the world - so yeah, let's do it!".

Nobody's on a "high horse" - I'm certainly not assuming to be a better person that you - we just disagree about what the right thing to do is in this case.

Some on this forum are averse to things that resemble stealing. Sorry if that hit a nerve with you...

 

[Gix1k]

What's this app do?

 

[3bs]

What's this app do?

Let's you customise A LOT of things. Icon size, number per row, hide labels, more icons in dock and create folder in dock, hide status bar icons, always show camera button in lock screen, disable mobile substrate add ons, hide
Spotlight and much more.

 

[EngageWithRage]

I personally think that the Devs should take donations same as the teh people that make it possible for them to even have a market for their apps ( JB Dev Teams). Some of these apps are way overpriced considering the amount of people that have a jailbroken iPhone (Million+ and counting), so if some people have the option to either overpay or get it free, guess which one they will choose? These prices would make sense if the JB community was small like it used to be. I for one would NOT pay 3 bucks for Springtomize and I am obviously not the only one. If some of the Devs would charge a reasonable price I am more than sure people would be more inclined to pay the cost. I mean...if everyone paid the prices set by some of these Devs these guys would be millionaires overnight, meanwhile the people that make it possible make nothing..