Very disappointing

[ZCherub]

I personally think that the Devs should take donations same as the teh people that make it possible for them to even have a market for their apps ( JB Dev Teams). Some of these apps are way overpriced considering the amount of people that have a jailbroken iPhone (Million+ and counting), so if some people have the option to either overpay or get it free, guess which one they will choose? These prices would make sense if the JB community was small like it used to be. I for one would NOT pay 3 bucks for Springtomize and I am obviously not the only one. If some of the Devs would charge a reasonable price I am more than sure people would be more inclined to pay the cost. I mean...if everyone paid the prices set by some of these Devs these guys would be millionaires overnight, meanwhile the people that make it possible make nothing..

That I agree with. Some of these minor tweaks are indeed way overpriced. A donation system would be much more preferable (even though, with pirating, it almost already is a donation system since you can get it without paying if you want).

The problem is that it is not currently a donation system. No matter how unfair the price is, it shouldn't mean you can take it without paying for it.

If you want to send a message to the Devs that are over-pricing their apps, simply don't download it at all, and create an awareness of the ridiculous prices by posting about it in forums, blogs, etc. Essentially, boycott them.

But don't steal from them - that will only encourage them to develop ways to prevent it, not to reconsider their pricing. It only reenforces that there is a market for their apps, and they can likely still charge higher prices if they prevent the craked app downloading.

As a side note - While a donation system would be good, the mindset of most of these pirates/thieves does not foster that system. You seem to be interested in what is fair, but most pirates are not. How many pirates out there have actually even thought of attempting to donate to Hackulous, arguably the most "valuable" repo out there money-wise? That's what I thought...

 

[EngageWithRage]

That I agree with. Some of these minor tweaks are indeed way overpriced. A donation system would be much more preferable (even though, with pirating, it almost already is a donation system since you can get it without paying if you want).

The problem is that it is not currently a donation system. No matter how unfair the price is, it shouldn't mean you can take it without paying for it.

If you want to send a message to the Devs that are over-pricing their apps, simply don't download it at all, and create an awareness of the ridiculous prices by posting about it in forums, blogs, etc. Essentially, boycott them.

But don't steal from them - that will only encourage them to develop ways to prevent it, not to reconsider their pricing. It only reenforces that there is a market for their apps, and they can likely still charge higher prices if they prevent the craked app downloading.

As a side note - While a donation system would be good, the mindset of most of these pirates/thieves does not foster that system. You seem to be interested in what is fair, but most pirates are not. How many pirates out there have actually even thought of attempting to donate to Hackulous, arguably the most "valuable" repo out there money-wise? That's what I thought...

I hear what your saying, in the end you can't control the actions of anyone. People will do what they want, ad calling someone a pirate or a thief over something trivial as downloading a free app seems a bit harsh. I don't know you personally, but I would find it very hard to believe that you have never downloaded anything for free that had a pricetag on it (music, movie, MS product, Adobe, Antivirus programs etc). If you say you haven't..then I would have to call BS lol

 

[BumpyFlatline]

Wirelessly posted

The argument shouldn't be "I never pirate software vs It's my right to steal first and buy later".

Look, I've downloaded music illegally in the past, or movies, or text books for school. But the reason I'm so anti-pirating of jailbreak software is because the whole JB community is moving in a different direction than in the past. It's taking longer and longer for jailbreaks to get released, and more and more devs are bringing to light the rate of piracy inside the jailbreak community. As a jailbreaker, you should WANT to support these people monetarily to give them the motivation to continue doing what they do. Just about everyone who jailbreaks prefers their JB phones over stock. But if everyone is taking, taking, taking and never giving, the whole "economic model" of the jailbreak scene will slowly collapse. Already there are fewer and fewer hackers who work on jailbreaks. Soon there will be fewer and fewer devs who create software for all the jailbroken devices. We are already feeling this effect. Also, how often do you see "new" tweaks that are released but are ultimately a spin off (and sometimes blatant copies) of already existing tweaks?

What I'm saying is, the level of creativity is slowly declining. In the first few years it seemed like every new tweak was this radical, awesome but most importantly, useful idea. But now it seems like most tweaks are just a copy of something similar with some extra features or more efficient code or used in a different area of the iOS. Don't get me wrong. I think those tweaks are great. Competition is never a bad thing. But the end users should be the ones encouraging this competition and creative growth by supporting the software they like with a .99¢ payment to keep the scene growing.

 

[ZCherub]

I hear what your saying, in the end you can't control the actions of anyone. People will do what they want, ad calling someone a pirate or a thief over something trivial as downloading a free app seems a bit harsh. I don't know you personally, but I would find it very hard to believe that you have never downloaded anything for free that had a pricetag on it (music, movie, MS product, Adobe, Antivirus programs etc). If you say you haven't..then I would have to call BS lol

Many of the people in this very thread label themselves "pirates" - not just my words.

Yes - In the past, I downloaded ROMs for my SNES emulator on PC (stopped once I realized the implications). I've also burned a copy of a CD for friends. That's honestly the closest I've come.

The real problem here is that the jailbreak community is much more fragile that major companies. Not that taking something from ANYONE without paying is okay, but if we do short-sighted things like pirate apps now, we can effectively kill the enthusiasm of devs to make JBs/tweaks and kill the software and community entirely going forward. Then where will we be?

 

[BumpyFlatline]

Wirelessly posted

I hear what your saying, in the end you can't control the actions of anyone. People will do what they want, ad calling someone a pirate or a thief over something trivial as downloading a free app seems a bit harsh. I don't know you personally, but I would find it very hard to believe that you have never downloaded anything for free that had a pricetag on it (music, movie, MS product, Adobe, Antivirus programs etc). If you say you haven't..then I would have to call BS lol

Many of the people in this very thread label themselves "pirates" - not just my words.

Yes - In the past, I downloaded ROMs for my SNES emulator on PC (stopped once I realized the implications). I've also burned a copy of a CD for friends. That's honestly the closest I've come.

The real problem here is that the jailbreak community is much more fragile that major companies. Not that taking something from ANYONE without paying is okay, but if we do short-sighted things like pirate apps now, we can effectively kill the enthusiasm of devs to make JBs/tweaks and kill the software and community entirely going forward. Then where will we be?

Well put. I tried to say that in my last post but yours was much more concise. That's EXACTLY why I'm against pirating stuff from cydia.

 

[3bs]

Many of the people in this very thread label themselves "pirates" - not just my words.

Yes - In the past, I downloaded ROMs for my SNES emulator on PC (stopped once I realized the implications). I've also burned a copy of a CD for friends. That's honestly the closest I've come.

The real problem here is that the jailbreak community is much more fragile that major companies. Not that taking something from ANYONE without paying is okay, but if we do short-sighted things like pirate apps now, we can effectively kill the enthusiasm of devs to make JBs/tweaks and kill the software and community entirely going forward. Then where will we be?

Wirelessly posted



Well put. I tried to say that in my last post but yours was much more concise. That's EXACTLY why I'm against pirating stuff from cydia.

+1. How I see it too.

 

[EngageWithRage]

Many of the people in this very thread label themselves "pirates" - not just my words.

Yes - In the past, I downloaded ROMs for my SNES emulator on PC (stopped once I realized the implications). I've also burned a copy of a CD for friends. That's honestly the closest I've come.

The real problem here is that the jailbreak community is much more fragile that major companies. Not that taking something from ANYONE without paying is okay, but if we do short-sighted things like pirate apps now, we can effectively kill the enthusiasm of devs to make JBs/tweaks and kill the software and community entirely going forward. Then where will we be?

I agree that "pirating" apps is not the best thing to do, especially with a not so small jailbreak community. The responsibility lies with the devs to ensure that their apps are fairly priced thus removing the need to even seek out a hacked version of their app. It is not up to the user to point something out to the a Dev that created something like (iRealSMS3.0,IconHarvester, INTELLISCREENX) should NOT be between 4-10 dollars. You can't call someone a thief because they choose a free version of something, when that someone would gladly pay for any of those apps if they were 1.00 or 2.00 bucks. and saying it is ok to steal from "big business" is hypocritical if you ask me. OR maybe we should tar and feather the people that crack the apps, because they are bad people as well! LOL

Bottom line, once something turns into a cash cow, people will try to find a way around spending that cash. Jailbreaking is no longer a small time thing and is no longer a small community, as long as there is money to be made the amount of people willing to use their creativity to get a piece of the pie will not go down. There is ALWAYS someone else willing to what someone else won't for a cheaper price, tis the way of the world.

I am not advocating "pirating" or stealing, simply stating fact

 

[ZCherub]

...and saying it is ok to steal from "big business" is hypocritical if you ask me. OR maybe we should tar and feather the people that crack the apps, because they are bad people as well! LOL

...Didn't say that - didn't even come close to saying that. Just pointed out that the impact on a community like the JB scene would be much larger than on a company like Sony. IMO, both are equally wrong.

I disagree - it IS the consumers responsibility (in part) to let the devs know what the market will bear, because they ARE the market.

Devs don't do market analysis/market research surveys like large corporations do, so they test the waters to see what they can get away with charging. If you don't like what they charge, don't download the app. Again, send a message by "boycotting" their product.

Pirating just shows them that there IS a market for it, and some people who don't pirate (or don't know how) will pay for it. It can also have the converse effect of driving the price UP so that the devs can make up for the money lost on those that pirate the app.

i.e. - when you get a loan, part of your rate (the money you pay) includes some amount built in to offset the money that the bank will lose on bad loans that charge off. In other words, 10 good loans will pay for the loss on 1 bad one - so build the cost of the one bad one into the price of the 10 good ones. Solid consumers always carry the weight of the deadbeats.

In a similar sense, we could (and maybe already are) seeing devs use the price of paid apps offset the funds lost by apps that are pirated. That's not how you "stick it to the man" where I'm from...

 

[swiftbmx]

Here's the reality. Majority of people who steal will always steal. Check out the x-sellize forums and you'll see that no one there really has any plans to ever pay for anything. I was looking at my little cousin's jailbroken ipod touch the other day and he had easily 30 tweaks installed that he never paid for. I tryed to explain to him why it's good that he pay for them but he just didn't understand.

My opinion is that we need a bucket of apps that fall under a subscription service. As a dev you have the option to be part of the service and the buyer pays a fixed monthly fee. If you ever cancel your monthly fee service, you also stop receiving updates and if you ever uninstall the app, you also lose it. This way, the more your app is downloaded, the more of the fixed fee you will get from the buyer. It'd pretty much be how any music subscription service works right now. Just an idea to atleast get some devs a little more interested.

 

[Gix1k]

Let's you customise A LOT of things. Icon size, number per row, hide labels, more icons in dock and create folder in dock, hide status bar icons, always show camera button in lock screen, disable mobile substrate add ons, hide
Spotlight and much more.

Interesting. I'll have to get this. Thanks!

 

[3bs]

Interesting. I'll have to get this. Thanks!

You're welcome. Now the question is will you be one of the 8% or the 92%

 

[Applejuiced]

My opinion is that we need a bucket of apps that fall under a subscription service. As a dev you have the option to be part of the service and the buyer pays a fixed monthly fee. If you ever cancel your monthly fee service, you also stop receiving updates and if you ever uninstall the app, you also lose it. This way, the more your app is downloaded, the more of the fixed fee you will get from the buyer. It'd pretty much be how any music subscription service works right now. Just an idea to atleast get some devs a little more interested.

Apps that charge a monthly fee huh?
Great idea
You got people that dont want to pay at all and some that do pull the trigger for $.99 cents here and there. I purchased over 40+ apps from the appstore, you think I'd want to make 50 app payments every month towards them? Especially in this economy.

 

[JZTech101]

True, but with reason

Yes, People should be paying for the Apps, but most of the 92% can't. I can tell you firsthand that the majority of the 92% are Teenagers/Kids. Now how many of them do you think will be able to even have a Credit/Debit Card?

No Offense, but most adults don't jailbreak for stability reasons. They need it for work. It took a lot of convincing for my own Dad to Jailbreak.

 

[Gix1k]

what's a pop?

A soder!

 

[ZCherub]

Yes, People should be paying for the Apps, but most of the 92% can't. I can tell you firsthand that the majority of the 92% are Teenagers/Kids. Now how many of them do you think will be able to even have a Credit/Debit Card?

No Offense, but most adults don't jailbreak for stability reasons. They need it for work. It took a lot of convincing for my own Dad to Jailbreak.

These same kids can somehow afford $250+ video game consoles and $60-a-piece video games. The poor broke little darlings... How do you think they got the iPhone in the first place? The parents are funding other expensive habbits - why not legal app purchases?

 

[JZTech101]

These same kids can somehow afford $250+ video game consoles and $60-a-piece video games. The poor broke little darlings... How do you think they got the iPhone in the first place? The parents are funding other expensive habbits - why not legal app purchases?

As Gifts I add. Hardware Gifts are common. But how many software gifts have been given out? For me, ZERO. But more importantly, why would the parents trust them with Debit/Credit Card information?

 

[HickDead]

You're welcome. Now the question is will you be one of the 8% or the 92%

Springtomize's developer is talking out of his rear end with the 92% nonsense. I highly doubt it's that high. Holy exaggeration Batman.

 

[ZCherub]

As Gifts I add. Hardware Gifts are common. But how many software gifts have been given out? For me, ZERO. But more importantly, why would the parents trust them with Debit/Credit Card information?

Um... Pretty sure those games ARE software. And how does a kid with an unjailbroken iPhone get Angry Birds & a ton of other games? Clearly, you're right - a kids ONLY option for any app is to pirate it! Good call, skippy!

 

[JZTech101]

Um... Pretty sure those games ARE software. And how does a kid with an unjailbroken iPhone get Angry Birds & a ton of other games? Clearly, you're right - a kids ONLY option for any app is to pirate it! Good call, skippy!

You buy the Game console games in a cartridge with is considered HARDWARE. And no, I am not saying it is right. I am saying they CAN'T from the CYDIA Store. The Official App Store should not be pirated as Parents can buy Gift cards which is "Hardware" because you can buy it at a physical store for the Kids who wish to buy the Apps.

 

[ZCherub]

You buy the Game console games in a cartridge with is considered HARDWARE. And no, I am not saying it is right. I am saying they CAN'T from the CYDIA Store. The Official App Store should not be pirated as Parents can buy Gift cards which is "Hardware" because you can buy it at a physical store for the Kids who wish to buy the Apps.

Wow - games aren't software. You learn something new every day... Lol!

I hear you, though - games that are packaged are more tangible, though. I would say that MOST kids don't acquire apps w/ a gift card though. Pirating isn't the only option...

 

[JZTech101]

Wow - games aren't software. You learn something new every day... Lol!

I hear you, though - games that are packaged are more tangible, though. I would say that MOST kids don't acquire apps w/ a gift card though. Pirating isn't the only option...

I agree. But the #1 Reason Kids/Teenagers do it is for convenience its

Kid: Mom! Could you buy this App for me?
Mom: Why do you need it?
Kid: Oh, its a really awesome game
Mom: So you can be distracted from homework/studying again? I think not!

or

Kid: Mom! Could you buy this Cydia App for me?
Mom: Why do you need it?
Kid: Oh, its does (Whatever....)
Mom: Oh, just like the all the other tweaks/themes you asked me for?
Kid: This is Different! I really need this.

Vs.

Download App from Other source, Use!

 

[LandonDonovan]

A lot of apps have fake ratings and reviews with real reviews interlaced among them. I've probably wasted about $20 after reading fake reviews for useless apps and didn't want to bother writing to Apple for my money back. All of the apps should be shareware with a 1-week trial. This would only help the decent apps and punish the apps filled with bugs.

Wirelessly posted



Ignorance. How often does someone purchase a $10 app?!?! Once a year, twice a year maybe? Almost every single app that exists (and definitely the good apps) have written reviews, video reviews and user reviews, especially expensive apps. On top of that, many apps that fall under the same category have cross comparison reviews. Do your research and be a smart buyer.

Stealing an app to use as a trial is stealing. That's all I'm saying. If you end up buying every single app that's for sale that you've test driven, then good for you. It's hard to believe that every person who says they test the app before buying it are truly buying it. And these new statistics are starting to show that the large majority of people in the camp that "try before you buy" aren't actually buying. They're just stealing. And to think, all this time we thought ion1c was the prick...turns out it might be 92% of the jailbreaking community after all.

Its probably time the devs start offering trial versions or some sort of refund policy. Not sure this would have any effect though if almost everyone is already pirating apps.

The jailbreaking environment is an interesting economic marketplace that lives in the shadow of the app store. Interesting stuff.

 

[johndallas999]

Walk into a convenience store and take 5 or 6 candy bars without paying. If you like any of them, come back and give the clerk a couple of buck to show what a good guy you are. After all, you'll "save tons of money", so it must not be stealing. See how that works for you...

Uh, yeah. That's the same thing as downloading cracked apps!

----------

I'm not sure why anyone cares if total strangers on a forum pirate or don't pirate apps unless they are losing money themselves somehow.

 

[miss.manson]

 

[ZCherub]

View attachment 339053

Funny - but nobody here is talking about Hollywood.