Visa Dropping Signature Requirement for Chip Cards and Apple Pay Starting in April

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. E3BK macrumors 68020

    E3BK

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Location:
    NYC
    #51
    I think perhaps this is the slow march towards that here in the US. First eliminate the signature because no one even checks anymore anyway. And then later as "added protection against fraud" require PINs like the rest of the world.
     
  2. dmylrea macrumors 68020

    dmylrea

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    #52
    That makes sense. No more storing of credit card numbers on systems.
     
  3. iGeek2014 macrumors 68000

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    === Nowheresville ===
    #53
    BIB: not sure about other countries but here in the U.K. Visa, MasterCard and I believe AmEx have started to process contactless transactions online when they’ve previously been authorised offline.

    Was in the news half way through last year whereby people were reporting these cards lost/stolen but said cards could still be used for contactless purchases (until the terminal asked for PIN entry).

    Can understand why people are wary but unless you’ve been negligent then the financial institutions cover any fraud losses anyway.
     
  4. laurim macrumors 68000

    laurim

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Minnesota USA
    #54
    I have that card actually. I’ll doublecheck what you said because it might be something new I don’t know about. AFAIK the PIN is only for getting a cash advance at an ATM. But I’ll check again
     
  5. iGeek2014 macrumors 68000

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    #55
    BIB: not sure about other countries but here in the U.K. Visa, MasterCard and I believe AmEx have started to process contactless transactions online when they’ve previously been authorised offline.

    Was in the news half way through last year whereby people were reporting these cards lost/stolen but said cards could still be used for contactless purchases (until the terminal asked for PIN entry).

    Can understand why people are wary but unless you’ve been negligent then the financial institutions cover any fraud losses anyway.
     
  6. tzm41 macrumors regular

    tzm41

    Joined:
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    Boston, USA
    #56
    When I use Apple Pay in the UK with my US credit card the POS machines never asked me for a PIN or a signature, just like how it works at 70% of the places I use Apple Pay in the States. I guess it's more a merchant requirement than a bank requirement then? I imagine Visa didn't put in this requirement, but is taking the lead to get rid of it.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 12, 2018 ---
    I think you need to have the chip card, though.
     
  7. laurim macrumors 68000

    laurim

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    Minnesota USA
    #57
    Depends on the amount of purchase and the amount that triggers a signature varies by the store. Sometimes it’s over $100, sometimes over $75. You never know until it happens.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 12, 2018 ---
    I have the chip card. Let me call BofA right now.
     
  8. tzm41 macrumors regular

    tzm41

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    #58
    Ah that makes sense, better than in some countries where you have a hard max limit for contactless payments.
     
  9. Sasparilla macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    #59
    Noticed that about my CostCo card as well and was wondering if it was broken somehow - sounds like it just isn't enabled.
     
  10. E3BK, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018

    E3BK macrumors 68020

    E3BK

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    #60
    Most US cards that have a PIN feature have it as a secondary check. If your priority is signature, it will still print out a slip if the terminal is manned. The card falls back to PIN only if it is an unmanned terminal. But that failed on me a few times when traveling through the EU even at unmanned terminals. Barclays has Chip-sig-PIN cards and it wasn't as seamless as I hoped. My UNFCU & First Tech Fed cards are PIN priority and work perfectly.

    You can check here which one your card is: http://www.spotterswiki.com/emv/index.php
     
  11. castlema macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2003
    #61
    I've had a few times where not only have I had to sign they have required photo ID as well when using Apply Pay.
     
  12. tzm41 macrumors regular

    tzm41

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    Boston, USA
    #62
    Was checking on the database you provided, and the CVM somehow confuses me. The priority is signature, no CVM, and then PIN for some cards? Wouldn't it fall onto no CVM and then stop there?
    --- Post Merged, Jan 12, 2018 ---
    Wow, would you mind sharing approximately how large your purchase was?
     
  13. 123 macrumors 6502

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    Mar 3, 2002
    #63
    PIN is usually required above €25 (varies by country). Also, cash withdrawal is not possible without PIN.
     
  14. statik13 macrumors regular

    statik13

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    #64
    Works pretty easily actually.

    Staff brings over the portable card machine, it shows you your total bill and prompts you on the screen for how much you want to tip. You can choose to tip by dollar or percentage and the machine does all the math and displays you your total charge.

    Great system as your credit card never even leaves your hand.

    As for happy waiters & waitresses? Most restaurants set default tip percentage amounts, so I imagine that goes a long way to higher tips.
     
  15. DipDog3 macrumors 65816

    DipDog3

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    Sep 20, 2002
    #65
    Signatures are so worthless.

    Never even bother signing my name, just swipe a line & of course no one cares.
     
  16. tzm41 macrumors regular

    tzm41

    Joined:
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    #66
    Yeah that's how they do it in many parts of Europe and China. Not sure why I rarely see portable POS machines in the States. The waitress taking away your credit card is indeed kind of risky. They could easily copy the magnetic strip. Indeed I've experienced credit fraud of this kind, when my card was mysteriously used at a Home Depot in Vermont when I was in NYC...
     
  17. HiVolt macrumors 6502

    HiVolt

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    #67
    In Canada? I have never had to sign anything for Chip & Pin Debit or Visa credit, and never had to sign for Apple Pay either.
     
  18. itsmilo macrumors 68000

    itsmilo

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    #68
    Welcome to the year before i was born america!

    I was shocked when i went to Miami and Orlando last fall that not a single store i have tried supported tapping to pay. Thats literally all i use. Even in Germany who loves cash!
     
  19. laurim macrumors 68000

    laurim

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    #69
    ok. Just got off the phone with BofA. At first she was like “yeah no problem you can pay anywhere” then I pushed harder (nicely) told her how I have been blocked at machines and asked her if she knew the difference between chip and pin and chip and signature. Also whether she had ever travelled in Europe. She hadn’t. So she looked in her reference and said “oh, the card IS chip and signature”. But there’s a new entry that says if a machine requires a PIN, we can use our cash advance PIN to complete the transaction. She said it had a newer date on it and it was something she didn’t know about so she thanked me for educating HER . So in summary, looks like B of A fixed my problem with buying tickets at a machine. Thank YOU for bringing it to my attention so I could look into it!
     
  20. nostresshere macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    #70
    Of course they do, and they will continue to do so after April.

    With just a bit of thinking, folks will know why....

    think...

    They need you to add the tip. - They really could care less about the signature.
     
  21. FelixDerKater Contributor

    FelixDerKater

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    Nirgendwo in Amerika
    #71
    Some retailers have been asking for a zip code after using Apple Pay.
     
  22. laurim macrumors 68000

    laurim

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    #72
    Sometimes I just scribble to protect my real signature. It’s a farce
     
  23. FasterQuieter macrumors 6502

    FasterQuieter

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    Feb 21, 2008
    #73
    My son will be upset. He likes to draw smiley faces in the signature field for me when I pay.
     
  24. DeepIn2U macrumors 601

    DeepIn2U

    Joined:
    May 30, 2002
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #74
    I guess in that situation the Pen truly is mightier than the sword ... and could lead to a pending bullet in the worse places to be an American. I cannot imagine just how unconfortable a situation like that can be.
     
  25. laurim, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018

    laurim macrumors 68000

    laurim

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
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    Minnesota USA
    #75
    That’s a customer research thing. Knowing where their customers are coming from, how far they travelled to shop, etc. so they know where to send ads in the mail to get the best bang for their buck,I bet
    --- Post Merged, Jan 12, 2018 ---
    It really sucks when you are trying to get on a subway in Barcelona and can’t buy a ticket because they only have machines that require PINs and you don’t have any cash. I had to leave and walk until I found a station with a manned counter. After that experience, I always made sure I had cash, a ride pass or pre-bought tickets. In Berlin, I ran out of coins and had to buy a donut first to get on a train, lol. I don’t have the guts to just jump on and take a chance I’m not getting caught. And that only works in stations without the entries that require a ticket to get to the train platform. Definitely can’t jump over the barrier like I saw young guys do in Stockholm!
     

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