VMware Fusion 10 Coming in October With macOS High Sierra and Touch Bar Support

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. BayouTiger macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Location:
    New Orleans
    #51
    I'm another one that has used Fusion from early on and has never once HAD to upgrade because of a new MacOS, though maybe for better support for a new Windows version. With the APFS change I am not going to take any chances. I will be upgrading most of my utility type apps this time around.

    I too used Parallels at first and have gone back to check them out periodically, but Fusion is so much less invasive on the Mac side. I also need to use a lot of goofy I/O devices via USB and even USB>Serial adapters and Fusion has always been much more reliable for that. Add that I could port machines between Fusion and Workstation and even ESX and it's a no brainer.
     
  2. hvfsl macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

    Joined:
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    Location:
    London, UK
    #52
    If you are really running t on an SD card, that would be why. They are not designed to be used like an SSD with constant read/writes (you could probably store things like documents/music/movies on it though). You might have just worn it out.
     
  3. DoctorTech macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    #53
    Thank you for your reply. I did not realize that. I knew it was immediately slower than running off my SSD but it was "acceptably" slower for quite a while before it really slowed down. I knew SDs had a finite number of read/write cycles but I never thought that using it in this way might wear it out so quickly. Looks like I may have to buy a bigger SSD and move it from my SD. Thank you.
     
  4. MRrainer macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Location:
    Zurich, Switzerland
    #54
    I run 7.1.3 - on El Capitan.
    Thinking about upgrading to HS, when it comes out.

    I run no Windows, so the various improvements they touted for every release since then haven't really enticed me to upgraded.
    If 7.1.3 doesn't run on HS, that might just be the reason to upgrade...
     
  5. CarlJ, Aug 22, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017

    CarlJ macrumors 68020

    CarlJ

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    #55
    I've never heard anyone call it an "emoticon bar". Emoticon and Emoji are not two different names for the same thing. Emoticons are smiley faces made out of sequences of text characters (mostly punctuation), which originated on Arpanet and Usenet (predecessors of the Internet) in the early 80's, while Emoji are little special-purpose graphical symbols of faces and such, that originated from Japanese cell phones in the late 90's (originally with incompatible implementations on each carrier). Use of Emoji has since expanded considerably and they have therefore (quite reasonably) been added to the official Unicode character set standard which has been repeatedly amended with still more Emoji (because people keep saying, "if we have Emoji for X and Y, surely we should also have Z" - I don't agree with this logic, but it appears to be a bell we can't unring).

    And every time the Unicode Consortium adds new Emoji to the Unicode standard, and Apple implements the latest Unicode standard (as it should - it is the standard for how to represent all text in a uniform way), and MacRumors posts about it, a certain contingent of MacRumors readers have a conniption, because the graphic artists at Apple who drew the graphics for the latest Emoji should clearly be building the next MacBook instead. These readers have built up a long hatred for Emoji, so, since the Touch Bar on the latest laptops can show Emoji, what better way to channel their rage than by dubbing it the "Emoji Bar".

    I have an entirely different reason to dislike the Touch Bar - as an old-school Unix programmer, I need an Escape key, because I use it thousands of times a day (mostly in Vim/MacVim). It has to work without looking, it has to work every time, and it's much better if it gives tactile feedback that: a) you're touching the key but you haven't pressed it yet; and, b) yep, you've pressed it now. The touch bar fails on both of these - there is no distinction between touching the virtual Escape key and using it (you can't rest your finger on it waiting for the right moment to press it), and there's no tactile feedback that you have indeed pressed it (i.e. pressing to the right of the "key" and getting either nothing, or whatever icon happens to appear there at the moment, feels exactly the same as "pressing" the Escape "key"). If they had a physical Escape key at the left end of the bar, TouchID at the right end, and their touch strip in between, I'd be fine with that, but a virtual Escape key is a mediocre substitute for a physical Escape key. (Non-programmers may not see this as a big deal - imagine if they eventually went to an entirely touch bar keyboard on the Mac - it would open up fabulous possibilities for gestures and key reassignment based on current context, and it would completely kill touch typing, you'd have to look at your hands while you type instead of at the screen.)
     
  6. Marx55 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    #56
    Great. VMware Fusion is the only one that works to control machines via USB from Windows on Mac.
     
  7. GoodWheaties macrumors 6502

    GoodWheaties

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2015
    Location:
    Colorado
    #57
    My guess is actually that the card has filled up from all the small writes from running an OS (not that the VM is actually filling the card, just data that the OS says is deleted but isn't yet really) and the card is now having to do garbage collection at the same time as writing and that is what is bringing things to a crawl. SD cards are just not as good at that as a real SSD. Formatting the card may return the speed temporarily.
     
  8. TheAppleFairy macrumors 68020

    TheAppleFairy

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
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    The Clinton Archipelago unfortunately
    #58

    I'd argue you aren't using your MBP to it's full potential then.
     
  9. mikeroySoft macrumors newbie

    mikeroySoft

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2016
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    #59
    Fusion Product Manager here... Yes, Fusion 10 has a virtual TPM device which is necessary for Credential Guard and Device Guard.
     
  10. PeterHolbrook macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    #60
    Someone asked about Snow Leopard, so I'll share my experience. Snow Leopard Server can be run successfully on VMware Fusion Pro 8.5.8. So can regular Snow Leopard if you know how to fool Fusion into believing it's the server version.

    As for APFS, I've converted my virtual disk of a High Sierra virtual machine (running on Fusion Pro 8.5.8) to APFS. No problems so far.
     
  11. mikeroySoft macrumors newbie

    mikeroySoft

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2016
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    #61
    Hi there,

    Fusion Product Manager here...
    Allow me to clear up some misconceptions in this post.

    We do have a virtual TPM device. It absolutely makes sense because it's a requirement for Microsoft VBS which we now support in a VM.

    The keys are stored in a secure location, encrypted, and inaccessible to the host. It's developed by the vSphere team, so it's designed with Enterprise security requirements in mind.

    'Guest Escape' is actually a very complicated thing. No one can 'just do it', you have to string many MANY different 0-day vulnerabilities together. The showcases at Pwn2Own and other competitions are cool but they could almost never be used in the real world. Especially since after they show off the hack they are obligated to tell us how they did it and we respond by patching in usually a couple of days.

    The Host OS can not leak the guest TPM key data. Again, vSphere uses this feature, there are military grade compliance requirements baked into the platform. Literally, we sell to 3-letter agencies quite a bit.

    So I think the notion that virtualization will 'never' be able to do is inaccurate, we're already doing it and we're doing it in a way that is secure enough for the most regulated of environments.
     
  12. Janichsan macrumors 65816

    Janichsan

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2006
    #62
    Actually, your information are out of date: VMware offers finalised DirectX 10 support for about two years, and experimentally even longer.* DX11 support was so far not possible due to the shortcomings of Apple's OpenGL version. It remains to be seen whether Metal can change that.

    (* But to be honest: they were rather late with that, as Parallels implemented DX10 support much earlier.)
     
  13. bob24 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    #63
    It will probably work hence with no support for High Sierra specific functionality.

    I've been using VMware and upgrading only every second version for years and it has worked well for me (they allow upgrade pricing when you are one version behind, but don't get two versions behind or you will have to pay the full price again).
     
  14. DoctorTech macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    #64
    Thank you. I may give that a try (back up the SD card to an external drive, reformat, then put the it back on the SD. I don't use Windows very much, there is just 1 program (Minitab) that is only available for Windows and I need to be able to run that program from time to time on my MBPr.
     
  15. bbodine macrumors member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    #65

    At VMworld last year they basically said those rumors were untrue and they were just refocussing some of their efforts to other areas. They also admitted they didn't have enough new features to warrant a new release and charge for it but did announce then that they would have a new version this year. Normally they hand out licenses to the attendees for that session even though it isn't released to the public yet. Hopefully they do again this year.
     
  16. MiamiC70, Aug 22, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017

    MiamiC70 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    #66
    I'm currently running Bootcamp on a mid 2011 i7 MacBook Air w/ 4GB ram and 256SSD. Do you guys think I can run this on that machine effectively? I barely use the Windows 10 Bootcamp at this point but I'm do need to have a Windows 10 machine around for work "just in case".
     
  17. JeffyTheQuik macrumors 68020

    JeffyTheQuik

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    Aug 27, 2014
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    Charleston, SC and Everett, WA
  18. Markoth macrumors 6502

    Markoth

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Location:
    Behind You
    #68
    If you've ever been a heavy user of virtualization, you'd find that VirtualBox has suffered from a number of stability issues over the years, some of them bringing down the entire system thanks to the VBox kernel extension, although normally just the VM crashes. I've experienced these issues routinely enough over the years, that I no longer use it. They obviously need to test their code better. Switching to VMWare was the best thing I ever did. Yes, it cost money, but it has NEVER crashed on me. It certainly hasn't ever brought the system down. It's a very stable piece of software, without a doubt.

    Plus, if you're a tech like me, VMWare is used quite heavily in the industry. Using VMWare Fusion gives me some of the same technologies used in their enterprise products, so it's good practice. :)
     
  19. dogslobber macrumors 68020

    dogslobber

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Location:
    Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
    #69
    Why does virtualization cost money? Parallels and Fusion just seem to be yearly upgrade subscriptions. What a racket.
     
  20. Nermal, Aug 22, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017

    Nermal Moderator

    Nermal

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2002
    Location:
    New Zealand
    #70
    That list includes about 85 entries for Linux, a handful for BSD, plus one each for ReactOS and Solaris. That's four. What about the other 96 OSes?
     
  21. BayouTiger macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Location:
    New Orleans
    #71
    Not even counting all the virtual appliances that run on VMware. Things like Kerio's software phone system, or their mail server. Yes they are based on Linux, but they are very streamlined for a single purpose.
     
  22. Erdbeertorte, Aug 22, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017

    Erdbeertorte macrumors demi-goddess

    Joined:
    May 20, 2015
    #72
    I switched to Fusion this April because I was annoyed of the yearly Parallels updates and now this... At least there was a discount code for Parallels switchers and I only payed 53.37 instead of 88.95€.

    Just saw they still offer it:

    http://store.vmware.com/sstore?Acti...EUR&id=ProductDetailsPage&productID=323414900

    But Parallels 11 is also still working fine on High Sierra and they offer at least two times a year a bundle for the upgrade price what includes at least two apps that are purchased alone more expensive each than a Parallels upgrade, like PDF Expert, Text Expander, 1Password etc. and you get the discounted upgrade price for the last two versions.

    I found last last year's bundles for Parallels 12:

    https://www.parallels.com/black-friday-bundle
    https://www.parallels.com/parallels-mac-holiday-bundle

    I got 1Password 6 and PDF Expert 2 and something else for the upgrade from 10 to 11 and both are more expensive each than the upgrade had been.


    Edit: Since I only use a VM every few months. I'll switch to Virtual Box or the other free one which name I always forget when the others stop working without an upgrade.
     
  23. mikeroySoft macrumors newbie

    mikeroySoft

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2016
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    #73
    Yep, v7 to v10 upgrades will be allowed
    --- Post Merged, Aug 22, 2017 ---
    If by 2001 you meant 2011, then yes this Mac is supported.

    The new hypervisor platform requires newer CPU instruction sets, so Mac's older than around 2009 probably won't work. We'll have an exhaustive list comping out to coincide with the general availability.
     
  24. kendallb macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    #74
    You just need a good backup and restore tool that supports bare metal recovery like Shadow Protect and their hardware independent restore. I have used that multiple times to move between parallels, VMware and boot camp.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 22, 2017 ---
    Same here. Graphics performance and disk I/O for software development are way faster in Parallels. I have had some odd keyboard issues with Parallels and tried to go back to VMware a few times most recently for v8.5 and it was terrible. Gave up after a few days. If they could fix that to make disk I/O faster and the graphics not super slow I would give it another try.
     
  25. WatchFromAfar, Aug 22, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017

    WatchFromAfar macrumors 6502a

    WatchFromAfar

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2017
    #75
    Linux is a kernel; there is no "Linux OS". A Linux distribution contains a Linux kernel, a software stack and, although not always, a desktop environment. They are not the same; try to install a .deb file on Red Hat system or an .RPM on a Debian based system.
    If you don't agree with this definition then macOS is just a BSD derivative as Darwin is a BSD kernel.
    Besides what do you think VMware guys were referring to?
     

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