Maybe this is why everyone believes it will still be the 10th. Dalrymple has an excellent track record predicting Apple events.
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Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread
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Maybe this is why everyone believes it will still be the 10th. Dalrymple has an excellent track record predicting Apple events.
I hope not. Going with this and Iris Pro in the 15 is a pretty underwhelming update. It will mean the 15 will see a decrease in graphical performance compared to the previous generation, and the performance difference between a 13 MBA and rMBP will be minimal.
Going with the 47W iris pro in the 13" means the speeds can go 2.0-2.4 while the 15 can get dedicated graphics and faster processors. It nicely differentiates the MBA (dual core, HD 5000), 13 rMBP (quad core, 5200) and 15rMBP (faster quad core, dedicated graphics).
We know the 13" can handle more than the 35W chips currently in it, and the reason for faster integrated graphics is to improve laptops such as the 13 not degrade performance of the 15. I think it would be crazy to pay 15 rMBP prices for an Iris Pro which, while good, is still integrated graphics.
you can fit a 45W on a 13" and blow a hole on the battery life =P
thats right, who cares about battery....what we want is....
New Idea
Newb alert here - having read this thread and the "just bought" thread, why wouldn't Apple consider the following:
Add a retina 13" to Air line with 5100 graphics;
Replace 13" Pro with 15" in nearly same case (kill big bezel) with HD 5200;
Bring back 17" in 15" chassis (again, kill bezel) with dGPU
Gets rid of overlap and makes this into two discrete lines with easily distinguished price points and features.
Newb alert here - having read this thread and the "just bought" thread, why wouldn't Apple consider the following:
Add a retina 13" to Air line with 5100 graphics;
Replace 13" Pro with 15" in nearly same case (kill big bezel) with HD 5200;
Bring back 17" in 15" chassis (again, kill bezel) with dGPU
Gets rid of overlap and makes this into two discrete lines with easily distinguished price points and features.
As I said before, Intel would release a new chip in the HQ mobile line (on Sep 1) and the time has come: i7-4960HQ. This most likely will be in the 15 inch Macbook Pro, perhaps in higher end (hopefully while very improbable in the lower end).
Link comparing i7-4960HQ vs i7-4950HQ:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processor-comparison/comparison-chart.html
The specs of i7-4960HQ are:
2.6 GHz and everything else is the same.
-S
Link comparing i7-4960HQ vs i7-4950HQ:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processor-comparison/comparison-chart.html
The specs of i7-4960HQ are:
2.6 GHz and everything else is the same.
-S
Following Intel's underwhelming CPU update, I'm increasingly beginning to feel like I'm "Waiting for Haswell MBP... To Drive Down Ivy Bridge MBP Prices!"
A 99% battery-centric upgrade does very little for me in terms of music production/Photoshop work... This might be first for me: being in a position to buy a new laptop and actively choosing a previous gen machine.
That said, I challenge anyone to have high expectations for the Haswell MBP after reading this major buzzkill of a thread.
Following Intel's underwhelming CPU update, I'm increasingly beginning to feel like I'm "Waiting for Haswell MBP... To Drive Down Ivy Bridge MBP Prices!"
A 99% battery-centric upgrade does very little for me in terms of music production/Photoshop work... This might be first for me: being in a position to buy a new laptop and actively choosing a previous gen machine.
That said, I challenge anyone to have high expectations for the Haswell MBP after reading this major buzzkill of a thread.
Challenge accepted!
Seriously though, I know where you're coming from. For a long time my MBP (2010 17") stayed at home or on a desk at work, and that's as far as it traveled. I bought it because I knew that was my usage case. It was almost always plugged in so battery life and portability were non-issues, I just wanted the maximum performance possible in an Apple laptop.
If I were upgrading for that same usage case today I'd be massively underwhelmed with the idea of the dGPU going away and power consumption CPU upgrades. Like I said earlier I don't think this is the year for the 15" and that's going to disappoint a lot of people.
My current usage case (grad school) has me spending the entire day in 1 hour chunks at different locations without much access to power outlets. I'm also carrying more than I want to even before the laptop. The ~7lbs 17" MBP is no longer reasonable for this situation, so it's being semi-retired to an external display, mouse and keyboard.
So now I'm looking for something that can both perform and be extremely portable, and the current (Ivy Bridge) 13" rMBP fits that need about 50%. By which I mean:
+Good CPU performance.
+Good weight and form factor, only 0.6lbs heavier than 13" Air and I honestly think I like the rMBP form factor better (especially the improved ventilation).
-Poor battery life for my usage.
-Poor iGPU performance. The HD 4000 drops frames in normal desktop operation, especially when dynamic content gets rolling in browsers. 3D is out of the question, even if we're not talking about gaming.
So based on my needs the Haswell 13" rMBP refresh sounds like exactly what I want. Double the GPU performance, maybe a 30% increase in battery life (made up numbers!). I've basically decided at this point that the Air, which I really do like, is going back so I can pick up a 13" rMBP when they announce the refresh.
Now, the 15"... yeah, different story. The 15" rMBP is what I'd buy if I wanted to replace the 17" MBP, but it wouldn't be the upcoming Haswell model. I don't think it would be the Ivy Bridge model either because that HD 4000 isn't enough for day to day operations. At the moment it seems like Broadwell will be the big deal for the 15" (40% faster GPU than HD 5200 without significant power impact). If those Geekbench results ended up being an error and the 15" has a 7XXm dGPU that might change things, but right now it seems unlikely.
I also think there's a case to be made for the Haswell 15" being right for some users (not really me or you though). If you never used the dGPU (intentionally) then the HD5200 is going to be a huge upgrade. No more dGPU turning on and eating battery, much better day to day graphical performance. If you don't mind the size over the 13" (say you have less to carry besides the laptop or you're just a larger person) then maybe Haswell can make the 15" more viable as a portable machine.
This is clearly Apple's direction at the moment for better or worse, and it's definitely the year of the 13" ultraportable.
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Since Haswell is so much more battery efficient, with better stepping, and better control of that stepping with coalesced processing in Mavericks it probably wouldn't affect the battery at all.
Remember, the processor only uses 47W *at full load*. Not all the time. If I'm running at max load then I might get worse battery life, then again it might complete the task faster and save me battery life. It's about *performance* per watt, not simply wattage.
Many posts, like ones about the 13" not being able to thermally handle a 47W chip, are made out of pure ignorance on this board. Not saying yours is, but for light use the battery life would likely be identical because both the 28W chip and the 47W chip would actually be running at the same wattage to get the job done, the quad would probably be running at less wattage since it gets more performance per watt. For heavy lifting you want it to be plugged in anyway, so with a 47W quad you get the best of both worlds.
A 47W quad and a 28W dual performing the same task will use similar amounts of power unless under a heavy load, in which case the quad will draw more power but also complete the task faster which may actually be more power efficient, this is called the "race to idle". If anything the 47W quad will use less power because of a higher performance per watt. This is the magic of having a variable clock speed depending on load, and is why Haswell has better battery life than Ivy Bridge - better clock variation and power management *not* lower TDP which is the MAXIMUM power the processor will potentially draw. People on here seem to think TDP is what a chip draws all the time, and therefore a 47W chip will always draw nearly twice the power of a 28W chip. This is wrong. Very, very wrong. I repeat, this is only what it will draw at load and even then it may win the "race to idle" and be more power efficient than a chip with a lower TDP.
The main issue the 47W TDP poses for the 13" is whether it can dissipate that heat at load. And since the 35W processors don't stress the cooling system at all according to Anandtech, it almost certainly can handle 47W. So since we can conclude with a decent amount of confidence that battery life and thermals aren't a problem to having a 47W in the 13" the only issue would be price.
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Great post, Walrus. I'm also coming from a 2010 17" mobile monster (which was fantastic with an SSD in it--until it was stolen), so I'm definitely after the MBP-as-desktop-replacement model, and barring a minor miracle it doesn't look like Haswell has much in store for me in that regard.
On the bright side: if I can pick up an early 2013 15" retina with 16GB at a significant discount, I'm sure it will be more than enough power to see me through another 2-3 years, at which point I can upgrade to a 'Roswell' MBP--which will likely come with a built-in anti-gravity device rendering it entirely weightless!
On the bright side: if I can pick up an early 2013 15" retina with 16GB at a significant discount, I'm sure it will be more than enough power to see me through another 2-3 years, at which point I can upgrade to a 'Roswell' MBP--which will likely come with a built-in anti-gravity device rendering it entirely weightless!
Following Intel's underwhelming CPU update, I'm increasingly beginning to feel like I'm "Waiting for Haswell MBP... To Drive Down Ivy Bridge MBP Prices!"
A 99% battery-centric upgrade does very little for me in terms of music production/Photoshop work... This might be first for me: being in a position to buy a new laptop and actively choosing a previous gen machine.
That said, I challenge anyone to have high expectations for the Haswell MBP after reading this major buzzkill of a thread.
Same boat here. I suspect the current 15" will fly off the shelves if the new one goes Iris Pro. I was looking into the 13" but if I can get a 16Gb with 650m 15" on the cheap then I'll snap that up.
Combining an underwhelming CPU performance update with worse graphics sounds pretty disappointing to me even if it does significantly increase battery life, but I run my laptop plugged in most of the time. I suspect most laptops spend the majority of their time plugged in too. I have an iPad if I want to browse the internet out of reach of a power socket for 10 hours, no need to waste money on a $2,000 MBP for that.
Exactly. While I do appreciate the advancements in portability that have come about in recent years, it would be nice if Apple would leave the focus on "incredible battery life" to the ultra-portable MacBook Air/13" MBP and give so-called power-users the option to choose more CPU/GPU power over battery life on the (significantly) more expensive 15" MBPs.
In my experience, there have been very few instances where I've found myself doing music work in areas with no power. Very few, as in: basically none. So I can't see myself paying a premium for battery life and slightly faster SSD/wifi if there isn't at least a dGPU to sweeten the deal somewhat...
Wonder what the chances are of them shipping a 32GB model? Availability of 16GB sodimms I think is irrelevant as they have custom soldered memory. a 32GB MBP Retina would rock, running decent sized VMs on a machine that fast...mmmm...
The 15" rMBP finds itself in an odd place from my perspective. It's technically light enough to be a portable for a certain set of users (4.5 lbs is still a lot less than my 17" MBP), but it has to do double duty as Apple's desktop replacement because there's nothing else above it.
The 13" is in a good position. It's too small for most people to think of it as the desktop replacement, but has a good amount of power for that size. The iGPU will be impressive here. This is the premium ultraportable, and that's a really solid product niche IMO.
Apple's obviously thinking they can push the 15" more towards the portable end of the spectrum, which leaves a certain percentage of users with no great option. I'm not sure if it's reasonable or not as I've never owned a 15" MBP, and holding one at the store doesn't give you much to go on. I'm definitely not planning to get one this year considering my needs for portability, and I wouldn't buy one as a desktop replacement either.
So either Apple is intending to phase out the concept of a desktop replacement entirely or they have something else in the works beyond the 15" rMBP for that situation. Neither would surprise me at the moment.
There obviously won't be a 13" Haswell MBP with 32GB of RAM, since there is not even a 13" Ivy Bridge rMBP with 16GB. The chances of a 15" Haswell MBP with 32GB of RAM seems very unlikely since the base configuration was only last year increased from 4GB to 8GB. I think Apple will start to offer a 32GB BTO option in a MBP starting with either Broadwell or Skylake.
Don't the dual core Haswells that are likely to be used in the 13" rMBP only support up to 16GB of RAM anyway?
The Haswell mobile quads do support 32GB of RAM but it would probably be an obscenely expensive BTO option and I agree, probably won't be available this year.
If you don't return the card, they'll deduct the unused value of the card from your refund.
I'm fed up waiting for Haswell. Why is Apple leaving it so late?
At least you bloody signed for Arsenal, try being a United fan and waiting for the Haswell rMBP.
At least you bloody signed for Arsenal, try being a United fan and waiting for the Haswell rMBP.
When Man U is jealous of Arsenal, things are not right. Hurry up, Apple. I need a new laptop. I've got money to spend, too.
You've got until the 10th September to announce Haswell rMBP. That's when the window will close and I'll be forced to buy a Dell.
Newb alert here - having read this thread and the "just bought" thread, why wouldn't Apple consider the following:
Add a retina 13" to Air line with 5100 graphics;
Replace 13" Pro with 15" in nearly same case (kill big bezel) with HD 5200;
Bring back 17" in 15" chassis (again, kill bezel) with dGPU
Gets rid of overlap and makes this into two discrete lines with easily distinguished price points and features.
Too "smart" for Apple, no seriously
They will milk us with the present design as much as possible, offering the smallest update they can somehow justify. We'll buy it anyways...Following Intel's underwhelming CPU update, I'm increasingly beginning to feel like I'm "Waiting for Haswell MBP... To Drive Down Ivy Bridge MBP Prices!"
A 99% battery-centric upgrade does very little for me in terms of music production/Photoshop work... This might be first for me: being in a position to buy a new laptop and actively choosing a previous gen machine.
That said, I challenge anyone to have high expectations for the Haswell MBP after reading this major buzzkill of a thread.
I've been thinking the same thing for the past few weeks.
It's the not knowing what the new specs are that has stopped me from pulling the trigger on a maxed out 15" retina.
I think Apple would clear out a lot of old (current) stock if they released the new specs for the 15" Retina....time will tell.
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