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Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

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ValSalva said:
I believe the academic discount system is done on the honor system. If you purchase in an Apple retail store I assume they will want to check your student ID but will not check to see if you've made any past purchases. And if you've returned your one notebook then you would still be within the rules in my opinion.
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That actully raises an interesting question - At the moment we are still technically (certainly we were up to August 31st) in the 2012-2013 Summer semester, In the UK at least the 1st semester starts on the 15 September (lets say 1 september for clarity)...

I brought a MacBook Air on Jul 26th - to me thats the previous academic year. So - when does apple consider an academic year, given I'm planing on getting a 15 rMBP when they announce (assuming I don't have a brain hemorage and get a Mac Pro) ... Technically I believe thats two purchases in two separate academic years .... ? Anyone know Apples dates of academia for sure ?:confused:
 
Stef4n said:
It won't happen anymore. Two/three years ago I would have said that it will happen but there are too many facts which tell us something else:

1. Intel is putting a lot of effort in iGPU and they are quite successful.
2. Slim and light sells better than dGPU
3. Battery life and heat controll can be better optimized with iGPU.
4. dGPU would decrease the margin for Apple. And even if they would raise prices to keep their margin then at least they lose a part of their revenue due to less buyers.
5. dGPU as an option contradicts with the slim design startegy

Any other opinions?
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1. Effort yes. Successful depends on your point of view. From an economic point of view, Intel sells a lot of iGPUs and reached a high market share. But from a performance point of view, Intel has not yet reached upper middle class performance (average 23% slower than last year 650m). Their drivers still suck and they plan to release new drivers only quarterly for the Iris series.
2. I posted a logic board comparison a few pages back. The dGPU+ VRAM is already a small piece of hardware. With an iGPU only they could build a smaller heatspreader. All in all there is not much room for improvement. And why should Apple redesign the rMBP after one year?
3. Heat control yes, there would be only one heat source. Battery life is still a big question mark without a side by side comparison. The screen is the biggest battery life eater and Apple uses quad not ULV processors. Iris 5200 pro chips have not a magically low power consumption. I would be really surprised if Apple would achieve the MB Air like battery life gains.
4.Intels product is overpriced compared to the Intel CPU+ dGPU combination. That is why most of the OEM producers decided not to release an Iris 5200 pro product. Apple is a special case, because they have great relations to Intel. Maybe they get it cheaper.
5. Without a total redesign it is only a problem of production lines. Apple likes to keep things simple. But they offered a dGPU as BTO in the past.

Apple could and most likely will offer an iGPU rMBP. But don't expect it to be really great in every way, because Iris 5200 pro is not a magical piece of hardware. For Apple it would be just a way to keep up (or even increase) margins and eliminate some dGPU related problems. That's it.

I still hope, that after this talk about the Mac Pro and that specs matter, Apple decides to offer a dGPU as BTO. Or even better release it with an AMD Crystal mobile card in october. If they choose not offer it, i will buy last years 15'' rMBP. I want a solid performance package to replace my old desktop and my mid 2009 13''.
 
Narcaz said:
But from a performance point of view, Intel has not yet reached upper middle class performance (average 23% slower than last year 650m). Their drivers still suck and they plan to release new drivers only quarterly for the Iris series.
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And only for one quarter. ;)
 
Stef4n said:
I know that I have to keep the gift card without getting refunded.
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You don't have to keep it if you don't use it -- I returned a machine a month ago and was refunded the gift card, too. If you use it or don't return it, it is deducted from your refund, but it is otherwise returnable.
 
Really hoping that's right, Stef4n.

Off to uni on the 22nd, trying to decide between laptops and the MBP on a refresh with an i7 Haswell and 8GB is my aim.

Whether or not cMBP even refreshes is another question.
 
I am eagerly anticipating a new MacBook Pro, but there's no way I am dropping $2000 on a laptop with just an integrated GPU. Not happening, especially one that is, at best, maybe as good as last year's discrete GPU in some applications.

Apple surely must know that people expect a premium laptop for premium prices, premium laptops still have discrete GPUs. That's all there is to it.
 
Come on drop that ****.

Possible but I think then we will see an earlier september rMBP refresh anyways as stef4n already mentioned like with the MBA 2012.

After the IFA probably all premium manufactors presented their flagships for 2013 already and I don't know if apple can hold on another 6 weeks. I mean depends on the availability of the windows notebooks but apple definitely is missing value here. The source of the rumor is also pretty vague imo.

Btw. what do you guys think how much below is the HD5100 compared to a Nvidia GT 730M? Has somebody a link to this comparison site from notebook check or something like that?
 
Cyrax said:
Apple surely must know that people expect a premium laptop for premium prices, premium laptops still have discrete GPUs.
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Yes, but those people probably number fewer than 100 worldwide. More than 99% (and possibly more than 99.9%) of MBP buyers do not know what a GPU is -- let alone the difference between an integrated GPU and a discrete GPU. Of those few who do know the difference, most understand that they each have advantages and disadvantages and make their purchasing decisions based on overall performance and overall value of the laptop.

Even in this thread, it seems that half those with a quasi-religious devotion to the discrete GPU think (or thought until they were corrected) that a dGPU indicated a "dedicated" GPU. Ignorance has always been the foundation of religious beliefs -- including the quasi-religious luddite belief that discrete circuits are better than integrated circuits.

I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of the posters in this thread who claim they wouldn't buy a MBP without a dGPU think that GPU is general processing unit.

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Pentad said:
True, but October is looking more and more likely with this rumor...
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For the release of Mavericks, yes, but it's clear from the state of the latest Preview Release that Mavericks will not be released in September. As far as a release date for Haswell MBPs, this latest rumor does not cast any light.
 
mcarling said:
Yes, but those people probably number fewer than 100 worldwide. More than 99% (and possibly more than 99.9%) of MBP buyers do not know what a GPU is -- let alone the difference between an integrated GPU and a discrete GPU. Of those few who do know the difference, most understand that they each have advantages and disadvantages and make their purchasing decisions based on overall performance and overall value of the laptop.

Even in this thread, it seems that half those with a quasi-religious devotion to the discrete GPU think (or thought until they were corrected) that a dGPU indicated a "dedicated" GPU. Ignorance has always been the foundation of religious beliefs -- including the quasi-religious luddite belief that discrete circuits are better than integrated circuits.

I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of the posters in this thread who claim they wouldn't buy a MBP without a dGPU think that GPU is general processing unit.
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I only want to remember you, we are not talking about 13' machines, we are talking about $2,199 for the LOWEST MacBook, i don't know if everybody knows what a dGPU is, but i can say more than 0.1%, i would be dared to say 30% AT LEAST of the people who buys a rMBP15 knows what a dGPU is.

People that don't know what a dGPU and buy a 15' machine usually dont want to buy 2000$ computer,
 
warplane95 said:
And what to you think if the next cMBP will have:
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It's moot. Probably one more cycle and they're gone anyway. I just don't see retina vs. non-retina basically being the only reason to justify two different models anymore once display supply channels become reliable. The cMBP's only exist now to placate the sticker shock of the high end offerings.

As iOS continues to cannibalize OSX it only makes sense to be more efficient with a product line bringing in only 15% of revenue (and dwindling).
 
mcarling said:
Yes, but those people probably number fewer than 100 worldwide.
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Maybe. I doubt it, considering that we are talking about a very expensive computer.

If performance on the Iris Pro was clearly better than the Nvidia GT650m in every way then it wouldn't be an issue. The problem is that it is not. It's better in some ways, worse than others. For $2000+ I would expect clear improvements across the board, not one step forward one step back.
 
Adeiko said:
i don't know if everybody knows what a dGPU is, but i can say more than 0.1%, i would be dared to say 30% AT LEAST of the people who buys a rMBP15 knows what a dGPU is.
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I just talked to a database programmer with a computer science degree and she didn't have any idea what a GPU is -- let alone a dGPU -- so your 30% of 15" MBP buyers number is a complete fantasy because I'm sure she knows more about computer hardware than 99% of 15" MBP buyers. Your estimate is about as likely as saying that 30% of people who buy light bulbs understand diffeomorphism invariance in quantum electrodynamics or 30% of people who pay for massage know the difference between the rectus femoris and the vastus medialis.

There is absolutely no possible way that 30% (or maybe even 3%) of 15" MBP buyers know the difference between RAM and SSD.

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Cyrax said:
I doubt it, considering that we are talking about a very expensive computer.
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High price does not make buyers experts in the internal workings of the products they buy. 100 years ago, people generally understood the internal workings of everything they bought (except animals). That is far from true today. Most people buy everything as a "black box" with no knowledge of internal workings.
 
mcarling said:
High price does not make buyers experts in the internal workings of the products they buy. 100 years ago, people generally understood the internal workings of everything they bought (except animals). That is far from true today. Most people buy everything as a "black box" with no knowledge of internal workings.
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Exactly. I'd say quite the opposite, especially with Apple products. They're very much marketed toward people who don't want to know. It's an Apple. It just works.
 
jafingi said:
Apple will NOT hold back a product if it's ready!

They have never ever done that before. In the past, they have updated product 1-2 months before a new OS version.

Not a sign of an October release.
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Can we please just accept that there won't be a release until October and then plan accordingly?

It's crazy to see that this sort of reasoning has survived since February despite all of the warning signs...
 
I know that Apple would release a Mac if it's ready.
However look at their stock, shipping is under 24 hours.

I really want them to release next week but that seems highly improbable
 
bill-p said:
Can we please just accept that there won't be a release until October and then plan accordingly?

It's crazy to see that this sort of reasoning has survived since February despite all of the warning signs...
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Agreed. There's ample proof in the past of Apple releasing hardware weeks before a new OS. The most recent example was last year when they released the retina MacBook Pro a little over a month before Mountain Lion.
 
ValSalva said:
Agreed. There's ample proof in the past of Apple releasing hardware weeks before a new OS. The most recent example was last year when they released the retina MacBook Pro a little over a month before Mountain Lion.
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Surely that is evidence to a September drop...
 
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