Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

[devilcm3]

MountainLion-Beta-Release to Apple employees -> Releases within a month? (same Mavericks-Beta-Release came this week)

First rMBP-Geekbenchresults -> Releases within a month? (same with haswell this week)

Also B2S should have already started.

So I think we don't need to wait until fall.

If apple really using the i5-4258U insteed of the same priced i5-4288U, choosing between i5 and i7 won't be easy

13" Retina geekbench is found two months before the actual launch... sooo ....


well, isn't that similar to the current lineup where i5 is the default specs and you add $$$ to upgrade to i7?

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I think you might be on to something there

IMO this has been Intel's plan all along but they didn't have the silicon to push their agenda that hard. They are inching closer and closer though.

i'd hate it if intel overtakes nvidia on the mainstream / low-end market.

i'm a big fan of nvidia, and lately they seemed to aim their crosshairs on the mobile (ARM) market, not much significant improvements lately in the laptop/desktop GPU.

 

[Lunfai]

13" Retina geekbench is found two months before the actual launch... sooo ....
the problem is that ... the 13 inch was launched without any major event or any sorts, while 15 rmbp was launched on WWDC ...

get the gist here?


well, isn't that similar to the current lineup where i5 is the default specs and you add $$$ to upgrade to i7?

No, because it was announced in October with iPad. It didn't get announced in September, so they weren't exactly ready to announce it then because either it wasn't like I said ready or they didn't want to add products into an iPhone event.

It was not a silent release.

 

[devilcm3]

No, because it was announced in October with iPad. It didn't get announced in September, so they weren't exactly ready to announce it then because either it wasn't like I said ready or they didn't want to add products into an iPhone event.

It was not a silent release.

oh...okay, thanks for confirming that

so it means we have to rely on the next keynote event, and hopefully they'll release the ... damn ... October, thats way too long

 

[Lunfai]

oh...okay, thanks for confirming that

so it means we have to rely on the next keynote event, and hopefully they'll release the ... damn ... October, thats way too long

Doesn't mean this year it can't have a silent refresh haha. That was because it was never released before, now we know there's a retina 13" MBP, they might just call it a day and do a silent refresh this year ;D I said earlier, that I predict mid-July to mid-August.

 

[vash420]

oh...okay, thanks for confirming that

so it means we have to rely on the next keynote event, and hopefully they'll release the ... damn ... October, thats way too long

Be strong!

As an added kicking I'm currently setting up my girlfriend's new MBA. I don't want one, but damn...

 

[jafingi]

I think we'll get an updated rMBP late July.

 

[PaulSpr]

From what I understand the non-Iris Pro CPU's are faster than the CPU's with Iris Pro. About a 300-400 MHz difference. That's not a great way to push people to iGPU's, especially with the price difference and dGPU that would buy (not considering the power trade-off).

 

[Vukmon]

It would be really hard to give over 2k for laptop with iGPU. I dont see that coming from Apple.

 

[Livewings]

From what I understand the non-Iris Pro CPU's are faster than the CPU's with Iris Pro. About a 300-400 MHz difference. That's not a great way to push people to iGPU's, especially with the price difference and dGPU that would buy (not considering the power trade-off).

Let me ask you people one more time.
What makes you think Apple would dump the dedicated GPU?
You want me to give you guys a dumbed-down chart so you people would understand what is going on here?

MacBook Air 2012 -> MacBook Air 2013
Core i5 3317U -> Core i5 4250U
HD 4000 -> HD 5000

MacBook Pro with Retina 13 2012 -> MacBook Pro with Retina 13 2013
Core i5 3230M -> Core i5 4258U
HD 4000 -> Iris 5100

What do we see here? A huge improvement in GPU performance right?
So do you guys really think Apple would downgrade the GPU to iGPU only when the whole MacBook line this year focuses on upgrading the GPU significantly?

The whole HQ vs MQ line debacle doesn't goddamn matter.
Apple will use the HQ line whether you like it or not.
Apple will have a dedicated GPU inside the 15" Retina.
Apple will NOT, I repeat, will NOTTTT dump the dedicated GPU.
Dumping the dedicated GPU will have a slight tiny minor decrease in CPU performance together with a decrease in GPU performance.
Do you really think Apple will release a worse rMBP than the previous generation?
Apple integrates the Iris 5200 so the dependency on the external GPU will be much lesser allowing Apple to claim a huge battery life increase. MOST TASKS can now be performed due to the powerful integrated GPU. BUT THE DEDICATED GPU IS STILL THERE if you happen to need the extra power which PROFFESSIONALS like me do. Doing this allow Apple to claim a huge battery life increase and also increase the performance of the rMBP 15 significantly.

Don't tell me about the CPU cost BS or that HD 4600 + GT 750M is cheaper cause the MBA 2013 cpu is $117 more than the previous generation.

Haswell alone thanks to the brilliant work by Intel will allow Apple to claim a superior battery life. The dedicated GPU will still be there.
Do you think it really makes sense that Apple has significantly better GPUs across the line except the rMBP 15?

I hope I get this message across you people.

 

[ohbrilliance]

I hope I get this message across you people.

And I hope you're wrong for being so sure of yourself.

At this point of time, unless you're Tim Cook, nobody knows which way it's going.

 

[devilcm3]

And I hope you're wrong for being so sure of yourself.

At this point of time, unless you're Tim Cook, nobody knows which way it's going.

You hope he's wrong? Well i hope he's right about the dGPU will still exist in the next refresh.

Intel currently have a strong footing on their IrisPro IGP and if this keeps going on i afraid within several years we can say goodbye to dGPU.

 

[Lunfai]

Let me ask you people one more time.
What makes you think Apple would dump the dedicated GPU?
You want me to give you guys a dumbed-down chart so you people would understand what is going on here?

MacBook Air 2012 -> MacBook Air 2013
Core i5 3317U -> Core i5 4250U
HD 4000 -> HD 5000

MacBook Pro with Retina 13 2012 -> MacBook Pro with Retina 13 2013
Core i5 3230M -> Core i5 4258U
HD 4000 -> Iris 5100

What do we see here? A huge improvement in GPU performance right?
So do you guys really think Apple would downgrade the GPU to iGPU only when the whole MacBook line this year focuses on upgrading the GPU significantly?

The whole HQ vs MQ line debacle doesn't goddamn matter.
Apple will use the HQ line whether you like it or not.
Apple will have a dedicated GPU inside the 15" Retina.
Apple will NOT, I repeat, will NOTTTT dump the dedicated GPU.
Dumping the dedicated GPU will have a slight tiny minor decrease in CPU performance together with a decrease in GPU performance.
Do you really think Apple will release a worse rMBP than the previous generation?
Apple integrates the Iris 5200 so the dependency on the external GPU will be much lesser allowing Apple to claim a huge battery life increase. MOST TASKS can now be performed due to the powerful integrated GPU. BUT THE DEDICATED GPU IS STILL THERE if you happen to need the extra power which PROFFESSIONALS like me do. Doing this allow Apple to claim a huge battery life increase and also increase the performance of the rMBP 15 significantly.

Don't tell me about the CPU cost BS or that HD 4600 + GT 750M is cheaper cause the MBA 2013 cpu is $117 more than the previous generation.

Haswell alone thanks to the brilliant work by Intel will allow Apple to claim a superior battery life. The dedicated GPU will still be there.
Do you think it really makes sense that Apple has significantly better GPUs across the line except the rMBP 15?

I hope I get this message across you people.

Yes; They will use 4702 or 4700 HQ/MQ (Doesn't really matter much) with a decrete graphics imo.

 

[Livewings]

You hope he's wrong? Well i hope he's right about the dGPU will still exist in the next refresh.

Intel currently have a strong footing on their IrisPro IGP and if this keeps going on i afraid within several years we can say goodbye to dGPU.

If Intel is able to keep of the pace of doubling the GPU performance every year, dGPU's will no longer make sense for any notebook other than pure gaming notebooks but it won't be this year.

 

[ohbrilliance]

You hope he's wrong? Well i hope he's right about the dGPU will still exist in the next refresh.

For my uses, I don't think I'll be worse off with just the 5200 and no dGPU. I'll happily trade graphics that won't benefit me for longer battery life and less heat.

I doubt it will happen, but it would be great to have a choice between 5200-only in the base 15" rMBP and integrated+dGPU in the mid/high-specced model.

In any case, exciting times ahead for the next refresh.

 

[Wuiffi]

There are two things wrong here:
Most are talking about, how Apple would never use an weaker chip than before, but we have been there. Twice
Did you already forget the 2011 to 2012 drop of AMD discrete GPU, or the switch in the 2011 MBP from the previous 320m to the weaker integrated chip?

The second thing is, that there is more to CPUs nowadays than just base clock. Anand Lal Shimpi in his review pointed out, that in some conditions the CPU performance of Iris Pro chips is as good or even better than the fastest desktop chip i7-4770k

HQ cpus dont offer lower cpu performance. specially when HSA enabled apps start using that cache.

That is the way that AMD and intel are developing their cpus.

its complicated to base performance on standard clocks anymore, as it ever was

I am not saying, that I would want Apple to go for iGPU only (I am hoping for a 760m) but just wanted to clarify some things here.

 

[Stetrain]

How am I wrong...? What the hell are you even trying to say?
Please tell me why would you want to spend tons of money for extra 200mbps you won't even use.

Where does 'tons of money' come from? The 2013 Air switched to PCIe SSDs, got a speed boost, and dropped in price for equivalent SSD size all at the same time. Where is the downside for the rMBP doing the same thing?

 

[sofianito]

I think the dGPU will likely have the same destiny as the cMBP... Those who need more GPU horse power will likely have to buy the new Mac Pro. I don't know how much it weights, but it looks like portable... You would just need to find out a 4k display to connect it to if you are lugging around...

 

[Vukmon]

Those who need more GPU horse power will likely have to buy the new Mac Pro. I don't know how much it weights, but it looks like portable...

Sorry, but this statement is silly in so many ways.

 

[sofianito]

Sorry, but this statement is silly in so many ways.

Lol. It was for entertaining the crowd to while away the time...

 

[PaulSpr]

I also think there will be a dGPU in the 15" model. But I would also like a big CPU performance improvement.

I haven't found anywhere what the speed difference is between the 2.7Ghz MQ and 2.4Ghz HQ chips. I would assume the MQ is faster since it's based on the same architecture and has higher clockspeeds. So if Apple would go for the HQ chips they won't have the best CPU performance they could put in their laptops, but battery life should be better since the dGPU wouldn't have to kick-in as much.

The MQ line is probably faster than the HQ line right?

 

[jophde]

My method to keep me from going insane was to treat my current machine - a late-2008 MBP - to a new 750GB HDD.

That machine is a an order of magnitude worse than even the original Macbook Pro Retina that you can get refurbished fro around $1500. Seriously, the SSD and Retina screen make a world of difference. If I were you I would at least put an SSD in your 2008.

You all realize that even if they do upgrade now there will be another, and much more important, upgrade to Thunderbolt 2 in fall or whenever the Mac Pro comes out?

 

[Vukmon]

Requesting just raw power & not software optimization sounds so "Windows-PC" to me.

So, can anyone answer on this totally noob question: Is there any chance that Apple brings even greater software optimization with Mavericks? What I am trying to say is, that iP5 with dual-core beats quad-core competition in terms of performance & fluid experience. From what I`ve heard they achieved that with great iOS optimization.

 

[devilcm3]

For my uses, I don't think I'll be worse off with just the 5200 and no dGPU. I'll happily trade graphics that won't benefit me for longer battery life and less heat.

I doubt it will happen, but it would be great to have a choice between 5200-only in the base 15" rMBP and integrated+dGPU in the mid/high-specced model.

In any case, exciting times ahead for the next refresh.

its unusual for Apple to give option to exclude dGPU, space is very precious inside the MBP.
to leave a slot for optional dGPU upgrade is very "un-Apple"

Requesting just raw power & not software optimization sounds so "Windows-PC" to me.

So, can anyone answer on this totally noob question: Is there any chance that Apple brings even greater software optimization with Mavericks? What I am trying to say is, that iP5 with dual-core beats quad-core competition in terms of performance & fluid experience. From what I`ve heard they achieved that with great iOS optimization.

in Mavericks, Apple gives more attention on deep system optimization.
you should see some improvements, minor if not major.

That machine is a an order of magnitude worse than even the original Macbook Pro Retina that you can get refurbished fro around $1500. Seriously, the SSD and Retina screen make a world of difference. If I were you I would at least put an SSD in your 2008.

You all realize that even if they do upgrade now there will be another, and much more important, upgrade to Thunderbolt 2 in fall or whenever the Mac Pro comes out?

Or they could exclude the TB2 just like they did on 2013 Mid-MBA.

 

[Livewings]

I just have this feeling, I hope I'm wrong, the refreshed rMBP's will only be released in the fall.

Only the start of B2S will tell us either in the upcoming weeks or in the fall.

 

[Vukmon]

I took little research to see Apple`s schedule from past. As you can see from quote below, June was only date possible after April for MBP update, next one is coming in October - nothing between! So, if you are dreaming about update in July, best thing is to wake up

1st gen of MacBook Pro - January 2006 (Updates: OCT 2006, FEB 2008)
2nd gen of MacBook Pro - October 2008 (Updates: JAN 2009, JUN 2009, APR 2010, FEB 2011, JUN 2012)
3rd gen of MacBook Pro - October 2012 (Updates: OCT 2012, FEB 2013)