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Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

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I am personally holding out for the dGPU specifically. I feel that the retina display could benefit from a card other than the 650m, it's not that powerful. Competitors have already made similar thin form factor laptops using the more powerful GTX 765m, with 2GB GDDR5 for a lower resolution screen than the retina display.

Razer is doing it right now, in a 14' with similar specs - Razer Blade

If they can do it, Apple can definitely pull it off. Otherwise I'd rather just go for an air if I had equal or less dGPU performance again.
 
denichidesigns said:
I am personally holding out for the dGPU specifically. I feel that the retina display could benefit from a card other than the 650m, it's not that powerful. Competitors have already made similar thin form factor laptops using the much more powerful GTX 765m with 2GB GDDR5 for lower specced screens than the retina display.

Razer is doing it right now, in a 14' with similar specs - Razer Blade

If they can do it, Apple can definitely pull it off. Otherwise I'd rather just go for an air if I had equal or less dGPU performance again.
Click to expand...

Apple doesn't work that way, specs comparison are for PC makers because they are competing on the same Windows platform.

the only comparison you can do is between mac models.
 
denichidesigns said:
I am personally holding out for the dGPU specifically. I feel that the retina display could benefit from a card other than the 650m, it's not that powerful. If they can do it, Apple can definitely pull it off. Otherwise I'd rather just go for an Air.
Click to expand...
First, take a look on this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1393606/

Second, new MacBook Air brought incredible performance & battery life in thin hardware. That will lead people who are not in Video/Graphic industry to doubt do they really need Pro. Are we going to see Pro more powerful & "pro" oriented than ever before - Apple will tell us this October :D
 
devilcm3 said:
Apple doesn't work that way, specs comparison are for PC makers because they are competing on the same Windows platform.

the only comparison you can do is between mac models.
Click to expand...

I think that's a pretty ignorant way of thinking. Unfortunately one would have to compare a Macbook to the competition. I also think my point was missed.

If you look at this Razer computer here - http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade

And the Retina Macbook Pro Here - http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/design-retina/

You will see they have near the same form factor, and aluminum body design. If the engineers at razer are able to fit a working video card with greater processing power than the 650m, with decent thermal throttling and battery life, why wouldn't Apple be able to do it better in their Macbook Retina.

This was also in response to the people thinking that Apple would drop the dGPU for the iGPU in the pro line. If apple were to drop the dGPU in the pro line, I would rather buy a Macbook Air strictly for the form factor, only becuase I would need a new pc to handle what I do for my business.

I am mainly looking to a rMBP upgrade not only for the CPU but a better dGPU than the rMBP now.
 
denichidesigns said:
I think that's a pretty ignorant way of thinking. Unfortunately one would have to compare a Macbook to the competition. I also think my point was missed.

If you look at this Razer computer here - http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade

And the Retina Macbook Pro Here - http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/design-retina/

You will see they have near the same form factor, and aluminum body design. If the engineers at razer are able to fit a working video card with greater processing power than the 650m, with decent thermal throttling and battery life, why wouldn't Apple be able to do it better in their Macbook Retina.

This was also in response to the people thinking that Apple would drop the dGPU for the iGPU in the pro line. If apple were to drop the dGPU in the pro line, I would rather buy a Macbook Air strictly for the form factor, only becuase I would need a new pc to handle what I do for my business.

I am mainly looking to a rMBP upgrade not only for the CPU but a better dGPU than the rMBP now.
Click to expand...

We haven't seen any benchmarks from Razer, so we still can't verify their claims about battery life.

but i do assume that most gamers do not care about extra heat on the bottom of the laptop because they game on desks with mouse, this give engineers extra room to push the envelope.
MBPs thermal designs also have to take into account that some users also use it on the lap hence there's a limitation here.

besides, razer laptops are aimed for gamers who are spec sensitive bunch of individuals.
heck care about the noise and heat generated from the machine, all that matters is the FPS.
razer could just simply told them there are downsides of cramming so much firepower into a slim 14" machine and those gamers would gladly accept that.

If Apple really care about the performance they would have done it since years ago, just look at previous models...most of them either use low end or midstream graphics card.
there was never an instance where they actually have a GTX on their macbook pro lineup.
 
devilcm3 said:
We haven't seen any benchmarks from Razer, so we still can't verify their claims about battery life.

but i do assume that most gamers do not care about extra heat on the bottom of the laptop because they game on desks with mouse, this give engineers extra room to push the envelope.
MBPs thermal designs also have to take into account that some users also use it on the lap hence there's a limitation here.

besides, razer laptops are aimed for gamers who are spec sensitive bunch of individuals.
heck care about the noise and heat generated from the machine, all that matters is the FPS.
razer could just simply told them there are downsides of cramming so much firepower into a slim 14" machine and those gamers would gladly accept that.

If Apple really care about the performance they would have done it since years ago, just look at previous models...most of them either use low end or midstream graphics card.
there was never an instance where they actually have a GTX on their macbook pro lineup.
Click to expand...
http://forum.notebookreview.com/razer/720129-new-razer-blade-razer-blade-pro.html

there you have some info and perceptions from users, unfortunately, the few users that have the machines havent posted much in terms of performance numbers and a proper review
 
This might be old news, I apologize if iris. But I just spoke with an apple rep on their customer service chat asking about back to school. He told me they do not know anything yet, but that the student price for the no retina macbook pros just dropped an extra $100 for a total student discount of $200. Possibly trying to quickly push stock?
 
Jlbt said:
This might be old news, I apologize if iris. But I just spoke with an apple rep on their customer service chat asking about back to school. He told me they do not know anything yet, but that the student price for the no retina macbook pros just dropped an extra $100 for a total student discount of $200. Possibly trying to quickly push stock?
Click to expand...

price drop since months ago, if you didn't notice that

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Mr MM said:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/razer/720129-new-razer-blade-razer-blade-pro.html

there you have some info and perceptions from users, unfortunately, the few users that have the machines havent posted much in terms of performance numbers and a proper review
Click to expand...

i'll look through it, sounds like there are heat issue in some of posts.

EDIT : saw your username
 
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My friend and I discussed few hours ago about new MBP and he just sent me photoshoped photo of r-MBP with enlarged air intakes for cooling system. What do you think guys, from past experience, does r-MBP needs even larger air intake to help cooling all (new, more powerful) components inside?

 
Vukmon said:
My friend and I discussed few hours ago about new MBP and he just sent me photoshoped photo of r-MBP with enlarged air intakes for cooling system. What do you think guys, from past experience, does r-MBP needs even larger air intake to help cooling all (new, more powerful) components inside?

[url=http://s15.postimg.org/ddch4zrev/enlarged_intake_r_MBP.jpg]Image[/url]
Click to expand...

Is that the same thickness as the current rMBP mode? I like the idea but I dont see how the air would flow out those vents unless more fans were added which would add some bulk...
 
Vukmon said:
My friend and I discussed few hours ago about new MBP and he just sent me photoshoped photo of r-MBP with enlarged air intakes for cooling system. What do you think guys, from past experience, does r-MBP needs even larger air intake to help cooling all (new, more powerful) components inside?

[url=http://s15.postimg.org/ddch4zrev/enlarged_intake_r_MBP.jpg]Image[/url]
Click to expand...

larger vents doesn't always means maximum cooling efficiency.
this is an image that explains the airflow of the MBP
bVr6I.jpg


following the laws of physics (whatever it is, i'm no sheldon cooper), high pressure air will always flow to low pressure area essentially "balancing out" the pressure.

now imagine the macbook pro with two large fans pushing lots of exhaust air out from the back, creating a low pressure area inside the macbook resulting in cool air rushing in from the sides of the vents towards the fans (high velocity) and the cycle repeats over and over again.
 
I hope higher res 13" rMBP

A nice surprise would be a higher resolution retina display for the 13" rMBP. Now as it stands you have 1280x800 screen real estate, but actually a 2560x1600 resolution display. 1440x900(2880x1800) like the 15" model would be super cool.



The airs will eventually get retina and the 13" model will have to get that such a high resolution also on a 13" display. So why not test it on the 13" rMBP with the haswell chips in the fall. :D
 
ghostlines said:
A nice surprise would be a higher resolution retina display for the 13" rMBP. Now as it stands you have 1280x800 screen real estate, but actually a 2560x1600 resolution display. 1440x900(2880x1800) like the 15" model would be super cool.



The airs will eventually get retina and the 13" model will have to get that such a high resolution also on a 13" display. So why not test it on the 13" rMBP with the haswell chips in the fall. :D
Click to expand...

I really wish Apple would make even higher native resolution displays too. But I think the expense and low yields at this time make it unfeasible. Hopefully in a year or three :D
 
devilcm3 said:
i'll look through it, sounds like there are heat issue in some of posts.

EDIT : saw your username
Click to expand...
Yeah there Im karamazovmm, there are so far no heat issues, but with this little info it aint discarded
Vukmon said:
My friend and I discussed few hours ago about new MBP and he just sent me photoshoped photo of r-MBP with enlarged air intakes for cooling system. What do you think guys, from past experience, does r-MBP needs even larger air intake to help cooling all (new, more powerful) components inside?

[url=http://s15.postimg.org/ddch4zrev/enlarged_intake_r_MBP.jpg]Image[/url]
Click to expand...

devilcm3 said:
larger vents doesn't always means maximum cooling efficiency.
this is an image that explains the airflow of the MBP
Image

following the laws of physics (whatever it is, i'm no sheldon cooper), high pressure air will always flow to low pressure area essentially "balancing out" the pressure.

now imagine the macbook pro with two large fans pushing lots of exhaust air out from the back, creating a low pressure area inside the macbook resulting in cool air rushing in from the sides of the vents towards the fans (high velocity) and the cycle repeats over and over again.
Click to expand...

cooling efficiency is determined by how much the power that is expelled is dissipated, the idea is to get that power that is transformed into heat as fast and efficiently as possible.

Simply put the rmbp 15 needs a better cooling system, along with a better PSU

if you stress both the cpu and gpu to the max, it will buckle down under pressure, actually if you stress only the cpu to the max on the higher end models, it already throttles.

A serious attempt to correct that is to have wider heatpipes, the flow of the air I dont think anyone outside apple measured that, but it should be enough. There are some premade calculations to help on that, regarding the thickness and how wide those things needs to be. The mech engineers that I talk to, say that that heatpipe is not rated for that much heat, its 10w off at least, it should be wider

Not to mention that the PSU doesnt provide enough power to the machine, that means that the battery takes over so that it can provide enough juice. in the end a new 120-150w psu is needed. I think 120w should be enough, but Im not an electrical engineer, so I may be off on that. For me the 65w should go to the air (and please revamp that thing, it breaks far too easily and often), 85w should go to the 13, and 120w-150w should go to the 15
 
Lately thinner bezels are getting pretty common, so I got one more idea! What do you guys think - exactly same size as current rMBP, but with bigger screen :rolleyes:

current rMBP vs new rMBP (click on thumbnail to enlarge)
 
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ghostlines said:
A nice surprise would be a higher resolution retina display for the 13" rMBP. Now as it stands you have 1280x800 screen real estate, but actually a 2560x1600 resolution display. 1440x900(2880x1800) like the 15" model would be super cool.



The airs will eventually get retina and the 13" model will have to get that such a high resolution also on a 13" display. So why not test it on the 13" rMBP with the haswell chips in the fall. :D
Click to expand...
I doubt the airs will get retina displays. It cuts in on the 13" Retina market.

The Airs will probably get Retina-level screens eventually, but they will be "Retina" by today's standard at best. By the time that happens, what is classified as a Retina display will be higher than what is now.
 
ghostlines said:
A nice surprise would be a higher resolution retina display for the 13" rMBP. Now as it stands you have 1280x800 screen real estate, but actually a 2560x1600 resolution display. 1440x900(2880x1800) like the 15" model would be super cool.



The airs will eventually get retina and the 13" model will have to get that such a high resolution also on a 13" display. So why not test it on the 13" rMBP with the haswell chips in the fall. :D
Click to expand...

I think the retina display on the 13" is fine as it is.

Personally, I'd rather go with a monster battery life like the 13" air :eek:

:(
 
Xcallibur said:
How long after the 2012 geekbench announcements were the 2012 MacBook Pro's released?
Click to expand...

The 2012 15" Pros released in June had Geekbench results mid May, about a month before the release. On the other hand, the 13" had results in July and August but wasn't released until October.

Also, the 15" came out with Lion and a free upgrade to ML, and was benchmarked with 10.7, so if this benchmark shows Mavericks it could mean no release until Fall when 10.9's due.
 
jz- said:
The 2012 15" Pros released in June had Geekbench results mid May, about a month before the release. On the other hand, the 13" had results in July and August but wasn't released until October.

Also, the 15" came out with Lion and a free upgrade to ML, and was benchmarked with 10.7, so if this benchmark shows Mavericks it could mean no release until Fall when 10.9's due.
Click to expand...

Maybe they will make some sort of announcement in September. If they are waiting this long to refresh the MacBook Pros, I wonder if they are doing a little bit more than just a refresh of CPUs and GPUs. :confused:
 
jafingi said:
But with Haswell, the integrated graphics are almost on par with 650M. So the UI responsiveness will be way better than with the old HD4000.

Haswell may not be much more better with number crushing and battery-life in real use. But the iGPU will make a lot difference in the UI when on iGPU.
Click to expand...

But the UI is fine, how can it be better? Mine works just fine. Sounds bogus to me.

----------
Mr MM said:
Yeah there Im karamazovmm, there are so far no heat issues, but with this little info it aint discarded




cooling efficiency is determined by how much the power that is expelled is dissipated, the idea is to get that power that is transformed into heat as fast and efficiently as possible.

Simply put the rmbp 15 needs a better cooling system, along with a better PSU

if you stress both the cpu and gpu to the max, it will buckle down under pressure, actually if you stress only the cpu to the max on the higher end models, it already throttles.

A serious attempt to correct that is to have wider heatpipes, the flow of the air I dont think anyone outside apple measured that, but it should be enough. There are some premade calculations to help on that, regarding the thickness and how wide those things needs to be. The mech engineers that I talk to, say that that heatpipe is not rated for that much heat, its 10w off at least, it should be wider

Not to mention that the PSU doesnt provide enough power to the machine, that means that the battery takes over so that it can provide enough juice. in the end a new 120-150w psu is needed. I think 120w should be enough, but Im not an electrical engineer, so I may be off on that. For me the 65w should go to the air (and please revamp that thing, it breaks far too easily and often), 85w should go to the 13, and 120w-150w should go to the 15
Click to expand...

Explain what you mean by pressure? I run 7GB data sets that churn out over 100GB of information over an 8hour period which runs 8 threads at 100% CPU the ENTIRE time. CPU temps don't go over 80C and the rMBP is fine, in fact it laps it up.
 
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