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Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

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Xcallibur said:
Your ignoring the many students with well off parents and just because an air is capable doesn't mean you're going to buy an air; with that outlook why buy a Mac at all?
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Parents don't buy MacBooks for their kids every year. Please remember these are $1000+ machines. Even if the parents make tons of money, they would know better than to spoil their kids.

And people buy an Air exactly because it is capable, and also more affordable than an rMBP.

And with this outlook, why buy a Mac at all? You're exactly right.

If I wasn't an iOS/Mac developer, which requires me to use a Mac, then I wouldn't buy a Mac at all. That's my first reason.

My second reason being that... I can't find any other 15" laptop on the market at any price point that's as thin as the 15" rMBP but has a quad-core processor, dedicated graphics, ultra-high resolution IPS screen, and optical audio output. Even now, there is nothing like the 15" rMBP on the market from any of Apple's competitors, so that speaks ample about their engineering prowess.

And I think that's exactly why Apple is in no hurry to refresh the rMBP. Competitors still haven't come up with anything that's remotely close to the 15" rMBP for the foreseeable future.
 
fejker said:
That's not an excuse for Apple. If you pay a couple of kidneys for a laptop it should function properly.
That's the reason I'm waiting with my purchase, because I want the laptop to be usable at least in 2D operations.
The 15" is just too big, not to mention too expensive for me.

I'm also contemplating about buying the new Air, but am a bit afraid it's CPU won't be powerful enough for processing RAW files from my Nikon D800 in Lightroom. If someone has any input on that, please let me know. The mid2010 13" MBP is dead-slow at processing them.
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13" MBP 2,5GHz scores 4926 on Geekbench. 13" i7 air scores 7276. Almost fifty percent faster.
 
bill-p said:
And people buy an Air exactly because it is capable, and also more affordable than an rMBP.
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Only $300 difference between MBA 2013 and curent 13" rMBP. Not a big deal... Kids prefer retina ;)

If I wasn't an iOS/Mac developer, which requires me to use a Mac, then I wouldn't buy a Mac at all. That's my first reason.
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It looks like the Chicken-Egg dilemma, but in your case I guess you bought first a Mac before becoming a developer ;)

My second reason being that... I can't find any other 15" laptop on the market at any price point that's as thin as the 15" rMBP but has a quad-core processor, dedicated graphics, ultra-high resolution IPS screen, and optical audio output. Even now, there is nothing like the 15" rMBP on the market from any of Apple's competitors, so that speaks ample about their engineering prowess.
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It sounds poetic and pure love :). Imagine the wonderful results you could have if you say something similar to your wife! :D

And I think that's exactly why Apple is in no hurry to refresh the rMBP. Competitors still haven't come up with anything that's remotely close to the 15" rMBP for the foreseeable future.
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Apple is a $$$ highly profitable company. They have to make money as much and as soon as they can. Tim Cook has to have a really good reason for delaying til fall a release which is supposed to be just a specs bump... If not, I won't be surprised to see him stepping down soon...
 
Nismo73 said:
ok...:(
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Sorry mate! I'm in the same boat as everyone else but I think I'm just going to purchase a Feb. 2013 15" rMBP. I believe Best Buy will price match the base model to $1999 via BHPhoto or Microcenter since there is one within 25 miles of me and then allow me to use the College savings of $100 on top of that bringing it to $1899 before tax. which is cheaper than Apple's student discount. I've got most of what I need from the App Store currently as I got the $100 gift card in 2011 when I bought my Air and buy stuff regularly. I'd rather lower the price and pay a bit less tax.
 
I waited for the iP4S, I waited for the late 2012 iMac, I'm waiting for the iPad5 and now I'm damn well waiting for the Haswell rMBP.

Am I on the wrong cycle or what? And it's not like I update every year. I was on a 3GS and 2008 iMac before updating. And now I'm on an iPad 2 and 2009 17" MBP.


Biitching and Moaning finished.
 
benjones said:
As I keep telling everyone the new rMBPs will be released once Intel release the rest of their Haswell lineup which is now scheduled for 1st September: http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/2013070301_New_Intel_mobile_CPUs_to_launch_in_September.html.

That is what Apple has been waiting for and I'm sure we will see the update soon after.
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I cannot agree more. BTS will be over at the beginning of September and Apple can do either an event or a silent update. Personally, I think we'll see them in October. This gives Apple new notebooks for Christmas and Intel time to release new chips.

I'm not thrilled about waiting until October but it is something to look forward too.

-P
 
benjones said:
As I keep telling everyone the new rMBPs will be released once Intel release the rest of their Haswell lineup which is now scheduled for 1st September: http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/2013070301_New_Intel_mobile_CPUs_to_launch_in_September.html.

That is what Apple is waiting for and I'm sure we will see the update soon after.
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That's pretty solid evidence, and I believe it. So the choice is simple for those of us waiting: suck it up and buy now, or continue waiting until September/October.
 
bill-p said:
....I can't find any other 15" laptop on the market at any price point that's as thin as the 15" rMBP but has a quad-core processor, dedicated graphics, ultra-high resolution IPS screen, and optical audio output. Even now, there is nothing like the 15" rMBP on the market from any of Apple's competitors, so that speaks ample about their engineering prowess.
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I kinda thought the razor blade was an awesome competitor http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade (less the screen). Not that I'd ever buy it, but it's the first laptop outside of apple I've ever paid attention to.
 
sofianito said:
Only $300 difference between MBA 2013 and curent 13" rMBP. Not a big deal... Kids prefer retina ;)
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Add tax and tell me again if it's not a big deal.

Also the difference is $500 for the base 11" MBA 2013 that can get the kid by just fine.

It looks like the Chicken-Egg dilemma, but in your case I guess you bought first a Mac before becoming a developer ;)
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Nope. Worked on a Mac at work. Then job demanded that I do research and also go to meetings with client. Thus MacBook.

It sounds poetic and pure love :). Imagine the wonderful results you could have if you say something similar to your wife! :D
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I'd say more than that to my wife.

And whatever the case, it's still true. The rMBP 15" is the only one of its kind on the market.

Apple is a $$$ highly profitable company. They have to make money as much and as soon as they can. Tim Cook has to have a really good reason for delaying til fall a release which is supposed to be just a specs bump... If not, I won't be surprised to see him stepping down soon...
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Because releasing a new rMBP line now would push the current line to refurb at lower pricing. And at lower pricing, current rMBPs with MUCH better specs than cMBPs would be much more desirable than cMBPs. Thus cMBPs stock stay stagnant and they lose money on that inventory.

If I was an investor, I'd vote Mr. Cook off for releasing a new line now from an economic standpoint.

DarkoDonnie said:
I kinda thought the razor blade was an awesome competitor http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade (less the screen). Not that I'd ever buy it, but it's the first laptop outside of apple I've ever paid attention to.
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It's awesome... until you look at the specs. To highlight a few things:

1) CPU: 2.2GHz quad-core w/ max turbo 3.2GHz, very unimpressive compared to what you get with the base rMBP 15". If you were to benchmark the two, I'm sure the rMBP 15" would be ahead despite its older generation processor.
2) RAM: 8GB DDR3L, which is about the same as what you'd get with a base rMBP 15"
3) Storage: 128GB SSD, really!? rMBP 15" starts at 256GB
4) 14" display at 1600 x 900, only LED backlit. Compare that to glass-fused 2880 x 1800 IPS panel on the rMBP 15". In fact, it's not even comparable to the 13" rMBP with its 2560 x 1600 IPS panel.
5) Battery only 70WHr. Even the 13" rMBP has 74WHr, and the 15" rMBP has a whopping 95WHr.
6) Weight is 4.1 lbs, which is just a few ounces short of the 15" rMBP at 4.46 lbs, so not that impressive.
7) Audio output does not include optical audio, unlike the rMBP 15".

Only thing it has that's better is the graphics card (GeForce 765M).

Price is just $200 shy of the base rMBP 15", but all things considered, you do get a much better screen, bigger battery, and other things. Not to mention the ability to have 16GB of RAM.

Compared to the rMBP 13", if you don't game, then the 14" Razor Blade is way overpriced.

So I don't think it's comparable to the rMBP line at all. Maybe if Razor had just included a better screen, but then I guess we both know that'd bump its price to close to the rMBP 15", and it'd still lack in other area (no 16GB RAM option, no optical audio output, smaller battery, etc...).
 
benjones said:
As I keep telling everyone the new rMBPs will be released once Intel release the rest of their Haswell lineup which is now scheduled for 1st September: http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/2013070301_New_Intel_mobile_CPUs_to_launch_in_September.html.

That is what Apple is waiting for and I'm sure we will see the update soon after.
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Now this makes sense. Looked at the release info and the CPU that stood out was the i7-4600U but could find nothing on the web. Anyone have anything on this one?
 
Uliman said:
Now this makes sense. Looked at the release info and the CPU that stood out was the i7-4600U but could find nothing on the web. Anyone have anything on this one?
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For the rMBP 15" wouldnt Apple shoot for the Core i7-4600M?

Looking at Intels website, these chips (from the article above) are not even listed as due to release in Q2/Q3

Selected Processors
(maximum 5) Processor Number # of Cores / # of Threads Clock Speed Cache Intel® Turbo Boost Technology ‡ Intel® Hyper-Threading Technology ‡
Select i7-4950HQ 4 / 8 2.40 GHz 6.0 MB 2.0
Select i7-4900MQ 4 / 8 2.80 GHz 8.0 MB 2.0
Select i7-4850HQ 4 / 8 2.30 GHz 6.0 MB 2.0
Select i7-4800MQ 4 / 8 2.70 GHz 6.0 MB 2.0
Select i7-4750HQ 4 / 8 2.00 GHz 6.0 MB 2.0
Select i7-4702MQ 4 / 8 2.20 GHz 6.0 MB 2.0
Select i7-4702HQ 4 / 8 2.20 GHz 6.0 MB 2.0
Selected i7-4700MQ 4 / 8 2.40 GHz 6.0 MB 2.0
Select i7-4700HQ 4 / 8 2.40 GHz 6.0 MB 2.0
Select i7-4650U 2 / 4 1.70 GHz 4.0 MB 2.0
Select i7-4558U 2 / 4 2.80 GHz 4.0 MB 2.0
Select i7-4550U 2 / 4 1.50 GHz 4.0 MB 2.0
Select i7-4500U 2 / 4 1.80 GHz 4.0 MB 2.0
 
bill-p said:
Yeah, it actually has to be for work for now.

Surfing the web actually doesn't show that much of a benefit for a huge number of websites because most websites are still built for regular screens. Occasionally you'll get a nice website that embeds high resolution assets, but those are pretty rare.

While the Air line can't compare to the Retina line in terms of screen quality, it has other things going for it. And if you look at it from a decent angle, you wouldn't really notice a difference unless you look at the screen very very closely. In fact, the Air may be better for those apps that haven't been updated for Retina resolutions yet.

And the Air line IS the "non-Pro" line.
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Man, have you ever used RMBP at all???
You don't need a specially designed website to use the Retina screen. Just look at the text on anything, the difference is huge, retina provides much clear texts that once you get used to it, can't even go back to normal screen. Is everyone doing a lot of professional work with ipad or iphone? Would you like to go back to non-retina ios product?

And you don't define macbook to different groups of people, it's not your job!!! Let apple worry about that.
You are a buyer, a user. You buy what you can afford and you use whatever you want. Who said that students don't need a fine screen? Students also do a lot of paper reading and writing on their laptop, the Retina screen would be such a great thing to have. The only thing matters is that whether you can afford it. I won't say that every student can afford it, but you can't say that none of them can either. none of these MacBooks are so unaffordable that draws a line between different groups.

Going to retina is the trend, soon all apple's product would be equipped. High resolution screen is not something special for work, because improvement of clearness matters to everyone
 
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jxie0755 said:
Man, have you ever used RMBP at all???
You don't need a specially designed website to use the Retina screen. Just look at the text on anything, the difference is huge, retina provides much clear texts that once you get used to it, can't even go back to normal screen. Is everyone doing a lot of professional work with ipad or iphone? Would you like to go back to non-retina ios product?

And you don't define macbook to different groups of people, it's not your job!!! Let apple worry about that.
You are a buyer, a user. You buy what you can afford and you use whatever you want. Who said that students don't need a fine screen? Students also do a lot of paper reading and writing on their laptop, the Retina screen would be such a great thing to have. The only thing matters is that if you can afford it. And none of these MacBooks are so unaffordable that draws a line between different groups.

Going to retina is the trend, soon all apple's product would be equipped. High resolution screen is not something special for work, because improvement of clearness matters to everyone
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I own a rMBP 15". I know.

Switch to 1680 x 1050 equivalent desk space on the rMBP 15" or a 1440 x 900 equivalent desk space on a rMBP 13", and then compare to a MBA 13" at "normal" viewing distance (keep your eyes more than 24" away from the screen) and there is really not that much difference. And no, I don't wear glasses. My eyesight is perfect when I went to the doctor last week.

The only reason why iOS products like the iPhone and iPad are more noticeable with Retina is because you view them much closer. But on a computer that you view from afar, it actually doesn't matter that much.

And I like my 15" rMBP actually not because I can view texts much clearer, but because I can have a 1920 x 1200 desk space for whatever task I need. I contemplated a 17" MBP for a while but decided against it due to weight.

I also tried 2560 x 1600 forced via SwitchResX and it looked tiny (since I always view things from more than 24" away). That's why 1920 x 1200 is the max I can accept. But if Apple pushes out a 17" MBP that can handle 2560 x 1600, you can bet that I'd be all over it.

I take it you have never had to type a multiple-page document. Being able to read back everything you have written on the previous paragraphs without having to scroll? Priceless. That's why some people still prefer big iMacs with big screens even though the rMBP clearly has a better screen.
 
bill-p said:
I own a rMBP 15". I know.

Switch to 1680 x 1050 equivalent desk space on the rMBP 15" or a 1440 x 900 equivalent desk space on a rMBP 13", and then compare to a MBA 13" at "normal" viewing distance (keep your eyes more than 24" away from the screen) and there is really not that much difference. And no, I don't wear glasses. My eyesight is perfect when I went to the doctor last week.

The only reason why iOS products like the iPhone and iPad are more noticeable with Retina is because you view them much closer. But on a computer that you view from afar, it actually doesn't matter that much.

And I like my 15" rMBP actually not because I can view texts much clearer, but because I can have a 1920 x 1200 desk space for whatever task I need. I contemplated a 17" MBP for a while but decided against it due to weight.

I also tried 2560 x 1600 forced via SwitchResX and it looked tiny (since I always view things from more than 24" away). That's why 1920 x 1200 is the max I can accept. But if Apple pushes out a 17" MBP that can handle 2560 x 1600, you can bet that I'd be all over it.

I take it you have never had to type a multiple-page document. Being able to read back everything you have written on the previous paragraphs without having to scroll? Priceless. That's why some people still prefer big iMacs with big screens even though the rMBP clearly has a better screen.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I can tell a huge difference with Retina on a Mac vs. iOS. But that's just me. And the difference, especially for text, is extremely noticeable.
 
PDFierro said:
Honestly, I can tell a huge difference with Retina on a Mac vs. iOS. But that's just me. And the differene, especially for text, is extremely noticeable.
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I won't deny that. Retina texts on the rMBP are definitely sharper than on iOS at the "Best For Retina" resolution. That's because on Mac you get sub-pixel rendering, whereas you don't have anything like that on iOS (yet?).

But the caveat is that at "Best For Retina" resolution, anything that's not Retina-ready is very noticeable. It jumps right out at you. A website that's not Retina-ready looks very obviously so. The sharper and clearer texts just exacerbate it.

And I still prefer the desk space offered rather than the clearer texts. At 1920 x 1200 equivalence, it's pretty hard to tell if an app is Retina-ready or not... or if texts on the Mac are sharper than on iOS without gluing my eyes really close to the screen. I don't have to worry about anything anymore at that point, and I can just concentrate on my work. I see more texts in XCode, I can open and see more windows simultaneously, and I can run simulators at 100% zoom and get pretty darn close to what it would be on an actual device. That's more what I need.
 
bill-p said:
I own a rMBP 15". I know.

Switch to 1680 x 1050 equivalent desk space on the rMBP 15" or a 1440 x 900 equivalent desk space on a rMBP 13", and then compare to a MBA 13" at "normal" viewing distance (keep your eyes more than 24" away from the screen) and there is really not that much difference. And no, I don't wear glasses. My eyesight is perfect when I went to the doctor last week.

The only reason why iOS products like the iPhone and iPad are more noticeable with Retina is because you view them much closer. But on a computer that you view from afar, it actually doesn't matter that much.

And I like my 15" rMBP actually not because I can view texts much clearer, but because I can have a 1920 x 1200 desk space for whatever task I need. I contemplated a 17" MBP for a while but decided against it due to weight.

I also tried 2560 x 1600 forced via SwitchResX and it looked tiny (since I always view things from more than 24" away). That's why 1920 x 1200 is the max I can accept. But if Apple pushes out a 17" MBP that can handle 2560 x 1600, you can bet that I'd be all over it.

I take it you have never had to type a multiple-page document. Being able to read back everything you have written on the previous paragraphs without having to scroll? Priceless. That's why some people still prefer big iMacs with big screens even though the rMBP clearly has a better screen.
Click to expand...


I don't think you understand how retina macbooks work. The resolution is fixed as 2560*1600/2880*1800 for 13in/15in. No matter how do you adjust the resolution, it is only adjusting the way of system UI scaling. the pixel size won't change. You should use the 15 rmbp as 1440*900, and the retina effect will be there. THe text, HD picture, HD movie that carries higher resolution would be showed in their own resolution.

And I have no idea how this "multiple-page document" thing come out. I didn't mention it at all. I didn't talk about big screen, iMac at all. Don't pull the topic away.
 
bill-p said:
I won't deny that. Retina texts on the rMBP are definitely sharper than on iOS at the "Best For Retina" resolution. That's because on Mac you get sub-pixel rendering, whereas you don't have anything like that on iOS (yet?).

But the caveat is that at "Best For Retina" resolution, anything that's not Retina-ready is very noticeable. It jumps right out at you. A website that's not Retina-ready looks very obviously so. The sharper and clearer texts just exacerbate it.

And I still prefer the desk space offered rather than the clearer texts. At 1920 x 1200 equivalence, it's pretty hard to tell if an app is Retina-ready or not... or if texts on the Mac are sharper than on iOS without gluing my eyes really close to the screen. I don't have to worry about anything anymore at that point, and I can just concentrate on my work. I see more texts in XCode, I can open and see more windows simultaneously, and I can run simulators at 100% zoom and get pretty darn close to what it would be on an actual device. That's more what I need.
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Well I agree with that. I do a ton of writing and I've seen how a non-Retina writing program looks on the rMBP. So me personally, I'd only want to run apps that are Retina ready.

However it sounds like you have a different workflow. I much prefer clearer text/Best for Retina over more usable screen space.
 
jxie0755 said:
I don't think you understand how retina macbooks work. The resolution is fixed as 2560*1600/2880*1800 for 13in/15in. No matter how do you adjust the resolution, it is only adjusting the way of system UI scaling. the pixel size won't change. You should use the 15 rmbp as 1440*900, and the retina effect will be there. THe text, HD picture, HD movie that carries higher resolution would be showed in their own resolution.

And I have no idea how this "multiple-page document" thing come out. I didn't mention it at all. I didn't talk about big screen, iMac at all. Don't pull the topic away.
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Again, I own a Retina MacBook. I have used this machine for 11 months now, for multiple things, so I think I know more about the screen than you do just by experience.

Adjusting the internal resolution also changes the size of the texts and everything else. Even if the pixel count is the same, smaller texts and elements are just less distinguishable.

And you were mentioning students needing to type documents and read texts, so I'm providing a use case. I have to type up technical documents pretty much every other day, and some of them are multiple pages long, with images in between. It is very useful that I get enough desk space to be able to go back and read all of the texts I just typed without having to turn off the images in between.

Also while reading a technical document, it is also much more useful that I can view smaller (but readable) texts because then I don't have to scroll or zoom as much anymore.

PDFierro said:
Well I agree with that. I do a ton of writing and I've seen how a non-Retina writing program looks on the rMBP. So me personally, I'd only want to run apps that are Retina ready.

However it sounds like you have a different workflow. I much prefer clearer text/Best for Retina over more usable screen space.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have to read texts from a different window while simultaneously writing texts (coding). And I write thousands of pages of texts (codes) a day, so being able to go back and read things without having to scroll is very useful.

If sharpness and clarity was the only factor, I would have downsized to the 13" rMBP instead since it offers the same sharpness and clarity while it is inherently more mobile. I don't need more processing power to write texts (codes).
 
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