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Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

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devilcm3 said:
So, lets go back to Mavericks launch.

Image

features that intrigues me is : GPU matrix multiplier


i'm not a CS expert, but....
what i found out from the GPU matrix multiplication is that it is exclusive to CUDA (NVIDIA), though i'm not sure if Intel graphics does incorporate that too.

I don't think apple would incorporate a technology in Mavericks only to support their older models? :rolleyes:
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It almost seems like they just threw in a bunch of phrases that they thought would look cool; last time I checked, Activity Monitor didn't boost performance or power.

Even if it is a NVIDIA feature though, any new iMacs will probably still have dedicated graphics chips.
 
jz- said:
It almost seems like they just threw in a bunch of phrases that they thought would look cool; last time I checked, Activity Monitor didn't boost performance or power.

Even if it is a NVIDIA feature though, any new iMacs will probably still have dedicated graphics chips.
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as far as i remembered, new MacPros are using ATI FireGLs, macminis are using iGPU.

would they do it solely for the new iMac?
 
devilcm3 said:
So, lets go back to Mavericks launch.

Image

features that intrigues me is : GPU matrix multiplier


i'm not a CS expert, but....
what i found out from the GPU matrix multiplication is that it is exclusive to CUDA (NVIDIA), though i'm not sure if Intel graphics does incorporate that too.

I don't think apple would incorporate a technology in Mavericks only to support their older models? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

GPU matrix multiplication is a technique, or you may also call it a processing method/algorithm..

CUDA has it integrated, but that doesn't mean you can't implement it for other GPUs.

OpenCL can help achieve the same thing on other GPUs.
 
Haswell here I come

Looks like Ill be waiting. This early 2008 MBP is just getting me through the wait. So, it will be a major upgrade for me. My current benchmark test results was 3,512!!! Nuff said.:mad:
 
devilcm3 said:
its a pro machine, at least give it a performance equivalent to a midstream machine.
not a ****-ty low-end graphics performance on a machine with a high-end price tag.
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They will discover the need to backpedal to a Discrete Gpu as when Imac end was rumored..
then they were in a huge delay till January 2013...
i hope they heard the lesson.

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dazlicous said:
No if Apple don't include a dGPU in the Haswell rMBP I will just get a Ivy Bridge model. I ain't paying over £2000 for a laptop that has only iGPU.
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Me too.

Frankly i think this is Cook..he wants to raise profits putting less to have more...but Apple
is made to shine not to bore...

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zOlid said:
....... and I base this on absolutely nothing.
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and iMAC? 780 ?
 
I have a hard time believing they won't offer a dedicated/discrete GPU...we've got two benchmarks reported so far...there's likely another around the corner
 
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brandonx76 said:
IGZO not until 2014? That's gotta be speculative...

From the front page

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/10/apple-to-adopt-igzo-displays-for-future-ipads-and-macbooks/


and this:

"In tandem with advances in IGZO technologies, Apple has decided to expand the application of IGZO displays to the iPad and to introduce IGZO displays to the upcoming MacBook, slated for release in the first half of next year."


that doesn't bode well for a release this year...man...
Click to expand...

rMBP refresh in OCT, I guarantee it.

It would make no sense for Apple to wait for IGZO
 
brandonx76 said:
I have a hard time believing they won't offer a dedicated/discrete GPU...we've got two benchmarks reported so far...there's likely another around the corner
Click to expand...

The benchmark shown was for a top-end CPU.

If a model with a top-end CPU doesn't have dedicated graphics, you can bet that the lower priced models won't have dedicated graphics either.

And as stated, Intel's pricing makes it so that CPUs with the Iris Pro GPU would cost almost as much as a regular CPU with HD 4600 and a dedicated GPU. Apple may get a discount, but the pricing of the CPU with Iris Pro is still higher than that of a regular CPU. There is no incentive for Apple to take a rise in production cost at this point, unless they also want to raise prices all across the board, but that makes no sense. They want to be able to produce the rMBP 15" at lower cost so that they can drop its price and phase out the old MBP line.

And I bet that's exactly what will happen here.

And (last "and") for those who think Apple will have another model with dedicated graphics along with one that has Iris Pro... I'd say: no chance in hell. That'd mean they have to maintain two different production lines for two different motherboards that offer two different lines of CPUs altogether. Not to mention they'd have to have two different cooling systems and two different internal designs... and two different chassis as well. That's way too much hassle to serve a niche market.

So it's either Iris Pro only, or dedicated GPU with HD 4600/5000. The benchmark pretty much confirmed which route Apple took. Either that or they're experimenting with boards and still have no final design yet. It makes sense if their release window is around October/November.

My guess: they're experimenting with Haswell processors for the next Retina MacBooks. Once they have finalized the design, they'd go ahead and start production in August, and then we'll have an announcement in October.
 
So there's no chance it happens in July/August? Ugh, this purchase will be my 2nd laptop, and it's so nerve wracking about jumping in and then worrying if a new one is going to be released. I wonder how painful it is with iPhones xD

Ordering my Macbook Air today.
 
bill-p said:
My guess: they're experimenting with Haswell processors for the next Retina MacBooks. Once they have finalized the design, they'd go ahead and start production in August, and then we'll have an announcement in October.
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I guess they could be testing things one last time with final production chips, but I'm sure that Apple has had access to samples of the various Haswell configurations for months now. In fact they probably had a pretty decent amount of influence on which Iris parts Intel ended up producing.

They don't need to wait for the chips to start shipping in volume to experiment with designs.

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travod said:
So there's no chance it happens in July/August? Ugh, this purchase will be my 2nd laptop, and it's so nerve wracking about jumping in and then worrying if a new one is going to be released. I wonder how painful it is with iPhones xD

Ordering my Macbook Air today.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say "no chance". The fact that we've now seen benchmarks for both sizes of Haswell rMBP means we may be pretty close, but of course nobody knows for sure.
 
bill-p said:
The benchmark shown was for a top-end CPU.

If a model with a top-end CPU doesn't have dedicated graphics, you can bet that the lower priced models won't have dedicated graphics either.
Click to expand...

Not sure I follow this logic...today you can get a rMBP with Intel Integrated, and upgrade the CPU to the same spec the high end model comes with...seems to me there are a few other configurations yet to be benchmarked
 
Stetrain said:
I guess they could be testing things one last time with final production chips, but I'm sure that Apple has had access to samples of the various Haswell configurations for months now. In fact they probably had a pretty decent amount of influence on which Iris parts Intel ended up producing.

They don't need to wait for the chips to start shipping in volume to experiment with designs.
Click to expand...

You mean Engineering Samples, right?

Well, if they were Engineering Samples, it'd say "Engineering Sample" or something generic like that in the benchmark.

The benchmarked CPU clearly showed its grade and name, which means it is a mass produced or stable version. So that's indication that Apple actually waited until there is a stable chip to start testing.

brandonx76 said:
Not sure I follow this logic...today you can get a rMBP with Intel Integrated, and upgrade the CPU to the same spec the high end model comes with...seems to me there are a few other configurations yet to be benchmarked
Click to expand...

Current 15" rMBP always comes with a dedicated GPU that automatically kicks in (or completely replaces the integrated GPU) when the right task is performed (certain applications force the dGPU). No matter if you upgrade the CPU or not, the dedicated GPU is always there on the 15" version.

The benchmark shows no dedicated GPU, but the CPU is obviously made to be in a 15" rMBP, and it's a top-end CPU. Logic says the next 15" rMBP won't have a dedicated GPU.
 
travod said:
So there's no chance it happens in July/August? Ugh, this purchase will be my 2nd laptop, and it's so nerve wracking about jumping in and then worrying if a new one is going to be released. I wonder how painful it is with iPhones xD

Ordering my Macbook Air today.
Click to expand...

Nah, iPhone are easier to tell. It's almost certain that it's going to be announced and released in September, no early, no later. They're normally a year ahead, unless told otherwise. Also, phone retailers will have blackout dates or 'be prepared dates'. For example, it's the third week of September this year.

Can't source the last piece of information, so you'll just have to take it with a grain of salt.
 
nihilisticmonk said:
Be a shame if true. No discreet GPU no buy for me. Bet the price won't drop comparatively either if they do go that route.
Click to expand...

I think they can drop the price by $100 if they go that route.

Even though the CPU may not be cheaper than the CPU + GPU cost of last year, it requires less cooling, so Apple can cut down on cooling components.

And they can also cut other components that are needed for the dedicated GPU like video memory, connectors, etc...

So in the end, the whole thing would cost less for them, and I bet they can swallow a $100 price drop easier that way.

Though if they want to include an IGZO display, then cost goes up again, and there may not be a $100 price drop in that case.

But the IGZO display coupled with Haswell may give better battery life... for those who need that.
 
bill-p said:
You mean Engineering Samples, right?

Well, if they were Engineering Samples, it'd say "Engineering Sample" or something generic like that in the benchmark.

The benchmarked CPU clearly showed its grade and name, which means it is a mass produced or stable version. So that's indication that Apple actually waited until there is a stable chip to start testing.
Click to expand...
I assume that the machine they are testing is something like a prototype from the final production run. I believe that before you actually start mass production of 100,000s of machines, you run small volumes with the same configuration.

I'm sure Apple had their early Haswell samples and did perform extensive tests - internally of course. While the geekbench leak might not be planned, it certainly shows that the prototypes are now behind a lower level of security - maybe they gave some to employees for real life testing etc.


For those hoping for a discrete GPU, I think the biggest hope is that there is one but geekbench could for some reason not detect it. Apple has never offered many configuration options for their machines, and in the constrained design of the rMBP it would be a big deal to have both models with and without dGPU.
 
thundersteele said:
I assume that the machine they are testing is something like a prototype from the final production run. I believe that before you actually start mass production of 100,000s of machines, you run small volumes with the same configuration.

I'm sure Apple had their early Haswell samples and did perform extensive tests - internally of course. While the geekbench leak might not be planned, it certainly shows that the prototypes are now behind a lower level of security - maybe they gave some to employees for real life testing etc.

For those hoping for a discrete GPU, I think the biggest hope is that there is one but geekbench could for some reason not detect it. Apple has never offered many configuration options for their machines, and in the constrained design of the rMBP it would be a big deal to have both models with and without dGPU.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they had samples to design the board... but the performance of Engineering Samples is generally not consistent so they wouldn't be able to do any extensive benchmarks on it.

I bet they are benchmarking battery run time and other things now... so that they can get a feel for it.

As for Iris Pro + dGPU, I don't think that's going to happen. It makes no sense since it'd drive costs up for Apple significantly, and they would switch to the dedicated GPU for more intensive tasks anyway, so Iris Pro is little better than 4600/5000/5100 for the application.
 
bill-p said:
As for Iris Pro + dGPU, I don't think that's going to happen. It makes no sense since it'd drive costs up for Apple significantly, and they would switch to the dedicated GPU for more intensive tasks anyway, so Iris Pro is little better than 4600/5000/5100 for the application.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the fact that there is Iris Pro on the machine makes a dGPU very unlikely - it wouldn't make sense at all.
 
bill-p said:
As for Iris Pro + dGPU, I don't think that's going to happen. It makes no sense since it'd drive costs up for Apple significantly, and they would switch to the dedicated GPU for more intensive tasks anyway, so Iris Pro is little better than 4600/5000/5100 for the application.
Click to expand...

Well, you still get those 128 megs of l4 cache, and that is nothing to laugh at.
 
bill-p said:
You mean Engineering Samples, right?

Well, if they were Engineering Samples, it'd say "Engineering Sample" or something generic like that in the benchmark.

The benchmarked CPU clearly showed its grade and name, which means it is a mass produced or stable version. So that's indication that Apple actually waited until there is a stable chip to start testing.
Click to expand...

I think we're just interpreting "experimenting" and "testing" in different ways.

Apple did not look around a couple weeks ago and says "Looks like Intel has some new processors out, guess we'd better start experimenting with new Macbook Pro designs!".

At this stage they would be doing final testing and possibly minor tweaks in preparation for mass production and release.
 
brandonx76 said:
IGZO not until 2014? That's gotta be speculative...

From the front page

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/10/apple-to-adopt-igzo-displays-for-future-ipads-and-macbooks/


and this:

"In tandem with advances in IGZO technologies, Apple has decided to expand the application of IGZO displays to the iPad and to introduce IGZO displays to the upcoming MacBook, slated for release in the first half of next year."


that doesn't bode well for a release this year...man...
Click to expand...


I hope they are not going to make us wait until 2014 for an updated rMBP!! UGH!!:mad:
 
This could very easily just be 15 cMBP as I don't see them discontinuing this year because if they did they would need to drop the price of a the rMBP and I don't see them making their margins tighter. Then again who knows but for gaming or any other VRAM intense applications the dedicated graphics will always win.
 
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