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Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

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I know I might be in the minority, but I believe that the new Macbook Pros will be out by September (maybe sooner). Apple just lost more sales this quarter compared to last year which coupled with fear that a prolonged Macbook Pro drought will lead to cannibalization of sales of the cheaper Air will encourage a swift release. I honestly think the testing results that you are seeing are a product of Apple testing the new computers with Mavericks for a more robust experience when it launches in fall rather than a sign that they will be launching at the same time. If that's the case they will probably provide free upgrades to those that buy before Mavericks launches.
 
sofianito said:
So you don't need to run Mac OS X on your "windows" laptop, do you?
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I prefer Mac OS X for its design but Windows is equally functional. If Apple doesn't deliver, or delivers a $2k notebook without a dGPU, well then, I don't have much of a choice.
 
People seem to be forgetting that we still have no idea if that was the cMBP or the rMBP.

Apple won't ditch the dGPU in the rMBP. Why? Because they did all they could to put a good GPU in the rMBP when they released it because they know it has to be a powerful computer to drive all those pixels. They also clocked it higher so that the 650M in the rMBP was actually better than the 660M GTX.

All the signs point to the results actually being that of a cMBP. Furthermore, the model is AAPL45,1. Well if that was the rMBP, wouldn't the model number be AAPLJ45,2 or something similar? Just a thought that occurred to me earlier.

So Apple will indeed ditch the dGPU but only on the cMBP. No way are they ditching it on the rMBP. I mean think about it. It would be a pretty stupid move.

Here's another proof. If they ditch the dGPU on the cMBP, more people will buy the rMBP because of the fact that it would have the dGPU. So they can effectively phase out the cMBP in favor of the rMBP.
 
Ironsyde said:
So first we're potentially waiting until October for Thunderbolt 2 so Apple can power 4k displays, then apparently there's a high chance that at least one of the 15" rMBPs will not have a dGPU. This does not compute. Now I'm actually afraid we'll get a really crappy July release which removes dGPU in favor of Haswell + Iris Pro, while Thunderbolt 2, IGZO, improved graphics are all pushed to next year.

Can anyone recommend me a good Windows MBP equivalent? I like the Razer Blade but apparently its screen is terrible which is a deal-killer.
Click to expand...

So far, the rMBP is the laptop with the best screen available on the market. OK, there's Google Chromebook Pixel, but that's not a Windows PC, and kind of a handicapped laptop. There's also the Toshiba Kirabook, which is very expensive, and has a screen which is not as good as the one in the rMBP. And they both run on Ivy Bridge processors.

There are lots of promises of Haswell laptops with retina-like screens, but none of them has made to the market yet. Perhaps we have something more concrete in one month or so.
 
Watabou said:
People seem to be forgetting that we still have no idea if that was the cMBP or the rMBP.

Apple won't ditch the dGPU in the rMBP. Why? Because they did all they could to put a good GPU in the rMBP when they released it because they know it has to be a powerful computer to drive all those pixels. They also clocked it higher so that the 650M in the rMBP was actually better than the 660M GTX.

All the signs point to the results actually being that of a cMBP. Furthermore, the model is AAPL45,1. Well if that was the rMBP, wouldn't the model number be AAPLJ45,2 or something similar? Just a thought that occurred to me earlier.

So Apple will indeed ditch the dGPU but only on the cMBP. No way are they ditching it on the rMBP. I mean think about it. It would be a pretty stupid move.
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Well, if it was a cMBP, it would be AAPL45,8 since it was introduced in 2005.
 
True but this is the first time they used this AAPLJ naming scheme. The last cMBP update was "MacBookPro9,1" while the last retina update was "MacBookPro10,1"

So maybe the new retina will have AAPLJ46,1
 
Watabou said:
True but this is the first time they used this AAPLJ naming scheme. The last cMBP update was "MacBookPro9,1" while the last retina update was "MacBookPro10,1"

So maybe the new retina will have AAPLJ46,1
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Because this is a beta leak, not a GP release.
 
Mr. Mad Vibes said:
Looks like Ill be waiting. This early 2008 MBP is just getting me through the wait. So, it will be a major upgrade for me. My current benchmark test results was 3,512!!! Nuff said.:mad:
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hey, i have the 2008mbp too, mine is base model! Didn't even bother to run any benchmark cuz i know it won't be nice. I am waiting for this major upgrade for a while...target is 13 inch rmbp

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bill-p said:
You mean Engineering Samples, right?

Well, if they were Engineering Samples, it'd say "Engineering Sample" or something generic like that in the benchmark.

The benchmarked CPU clearly showed its grade and name, which means it is a mass produced or stable version. So that's indication that Apple actually waited until there is a stable chip to start testing.



Current 15" rMBP always comes with a dedicated GPU that automatically kicks in (or completely replaces the integrated GPU) when the right task is performed (certain applications force the dGPU). No matter if you upgrade the CPU or not, the dedicated GPU is always there on the 15" version.

The benchmark shows no dedicated GPU, but the CPU is obviously made to be in a 15" rMBP, and it's a top-end CPU. Logic says the next 15" rMBP won't have a dedicated GPU.
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I think the logic is very clear and correct. Exactly my thought as well. From all the information it appears that dGPU is not going to happen
 
neteng101 said:
There ain't no such thing as proper mac gaming if you ask me - a pretty cheap built PC will easily kick the 650M and make it look like a pathetic underpowered joke. I keep a PC desktop around just for gaming... cause you will NEVER get that sort of gaming graphics performance from a Mac, and even less so from MBs.

Never really understood why people are willing to compromise when it isn't that expensive to keep a dedicated gaming rig around.

The Iris Pro is all the rMBP needs... unless you intend on gaming... which you should really do on a PC desktop if you're serious about your gaming. I guess its nice to be able to do something in a pinch while on the road on your rMBP, but it will always be compromised, Iris Pro, or dGPU.
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Couldn't agree more. Why do people buy such an expensive laptop that runs a game unfriendly system for gaming??? A desktop PC with half of it's price will simply knock it out in gaming.

The thing is not designed for gaming at all, you can't just assume it's a gaming machine just because it is expensive.

You can't just buy a Ferrari, and complain: How the hell that i spend $300,000 on the car and it is still incapable of off-road racing?

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bill-p said:
The benchmark shown was for a top-end CPU.

If a model with a top-end CPU doesn't have dedicated graphics, you can bet that the lower priced models won't have dedicated graphics either.

And as stated, Intel's pricing makes it so that CPUs with the Iris Pro GPU would cost almost as much as a regular CPU with HD 4600 and a dedicated GPU. Apple may get a discount, but the pricing of the CPU with Iris Pro is still higher than that of a regular CPU. There is no incentive for Apple to take a rise in production cost at this point, unless they also want to raise prices all across the board, but that makes no sense. They want to be able to produce the rMBP 15" at lower cost so that they can drop its price and phase out the old MBP line.

And I bet that's exactly what will happen here.

And (last "and") for those who think Apple will have another model with dedicated graphics along with one that has Iris Pro... I'd say: no chance in hell. That'd mean they have to maintain two different production lines for two different motherboards that offer two different lines of CPUs altogether. Not to mention they'd have to have two different cooling systems and two different internal designs... and two different chassis as well. That's way too much hassle to serve a niche market.

So it's either Iris Pro only, or dedicated GPU with HD 4600/5000. The benchmark pretty much confirmed which route Apple took. Either that or they're experimenting with boards and still have no final design yet. It makes sense if their release window is around October/November.

My guess: they're experimenting with Haswell processors for the next Retina MacBooks. Once they have finalized the design, they'd go ahead and start production in August, and then we'll have an announcement in October.
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What's your opinion about the reason they did the geekbench in public?

I don't quite understand why they did it knowingly that people would find out about the result. They did it not just once but twice on different models. Shouldn't it be done secretly? Did they delibrately do it just to see how public react to this?
 
It there's no dGPU I won't buy it, I travel a lot and I don't own a property to house a desktop for gaming. That's why I want a laptop/macbook. Will probs get the current retina if this is confirmed. Also gaming is not the top priority using OS and photoshop/painter 12 are.
 
What if the GeekBench app did not detect the ATI dGPU in the prototype? :D

One year ago, by introducing the retina model, Apple planned not only to kill the cMBP, but they removed components such as the ethernet port and the superdrive, and restricted the users freedom by preventing upgradability. Despite these drastic changes, people voted yes with their money. Now, it seems Apple's next step is likely to remove the dGPU from the 15" model...

What are you going to do now? Clearing current IB 15" rMBP stock or buying upcoming Haswell model means you are approving their visions and decisions...

On the other hand, those who are waiting for the new 13" rMBP will likely not be deceived :)
 
jxie0755 said:
What's your opinion about the reason they did the geekbench in public?

I don't quite understand why they did it knowingly that people would find out about the result. They did it not just once but twice on different models. Shouldn't it be done secretly? Did they delibrately do it just to see how public react to this?
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Geekbench forces the benchmark results to be published to their website whether the user wants to or not. So Apple has no say in the matter.

But they need to use Geekbench because there is no other benchmarking tool on Mac OSX that provides such a huge database for comparison.

My take on this: there is no "to see public reaction" or "secret" here.

No secret: the specifications of these machines will be leaked sooner or later (when they start printing packaging materials) so Apple might as well just forget about keeping them under wraps. Especially since they'd come out in 2 months anyway.

Not to see public reaction: you're thinking Apple may backtrack because the public reacts to the lack of dGPU? Nope, no chance of that. If they are confident enough to publish the results to Geekbench, that means the specifications of the machine are already final.

----

And for those who think they may offer two models of the rMBP 15" at the same time (one with dGPU and one with Iris Pro), it makes no sense.

Apple would need 2 different manufacturing lines to make 2 different motherboards... with different components, and then there's also the fact that they have to use 2 different cooling systems, 2 different chassis (to accommodate the cooling system), and other things.

That's too much of a hassle just to serve a niche market. They aren't out to please everyone.
 
bill-p said:
Geekbench forces the benchmark results to be published to their website whether the user wants to or not. So Apple has no say in the matter.

But they need to use Geekbench because there is no other benchmarking tool on Mac OSX that provides such a huge database for comparison.

My take on this: there is no "to see public reaction" or "secret" here.
Click to expand...

As I said in other posts, I can run the GeekBench and get the results without publishing them to their website. It is easy to do so even for an average user. So I cannot believe it is not an intended leak.
 
sofianito said:
As I said in other posts, I can run the GeekBench and get the results without publishing them to their website. It is easy to do so even for an average user. So I cannot believe it is not an intended leak.
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You can do that. But Geekbench defaults to uploading the results to its database before showing, right?

Someone at Apple most likely downloaded the app quickly, clicked on "Run Benchmark" and just let it do its thing.
 
iKrivetko said:
...three times in a row.
Don't be ridiculous.
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It happens?

Imagine these machines sitting in a lab, and an assistant has been instructed to run a suite of benchmarks on all of the machines, what would he do? Carefully configure the benchmarks for each machine, or just download, click run and move on?
 
Let me explain how the flow works:
Basically, GeekBench run the benchmark and posts the result in XML format to their website. The server return two values that are used by GeekBench to open your default browser and point to the result page. To prevent it from publishing the result, you just trick it so that their website IP is resolved to your local host. You achieve this by adding the following line to your /etc/hosts file: 127.0.0.1 browser.primatelabs.com

Now, all you have to do is to download and run a HTTP proxy monitor such as Charles proxy or Apache TCP monitor, and setup your Ethernet or WiFi to use that proxy. You'll be able to see passing the benchmark result in XML format. Since GeekBench is posting the result to your localhost (thanks to the line above), it will simply fail and nothing will go out of your computer ;)

Easy, isn't it? And don't tell me Apple engineers are not aware of these tricks... By the way, I am looking for a job... :D

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bill-p said:
It happens?

Imagine these machines sitting in a lab, and an assistant has been instructed to run a suite of benchmarks on all of the machines, what would he do? Carefully configure the benchmarks for each machine, or just download, click run and move on?
Click to expand...

As I said in a previous post, a simple firewall rule in the prototype machine prevents from sending stuff to primatelabs...
 
Here's a theory I have. The new rMBP's ail be released alongside mavericks. If they only have the iris pro and no DGPU, they have to be. The current rMBP has enough issues with mountain lion and its nvidia 650m. I don't thing an iris pro rMBP would work well with mountain lion.

I think that Mavericks will have much updated and more efficient graphics drivers which will enable performance to be much better as a whole with the iris pro.

Just a theory.
 
Apple Marketing new Mac release guideline:

3 month before announcement: Send digitimes false information about a 15'' Air // IGZO display // 4k display

2 month before announcement: Send digitimes false information about the product being delayed

1 month before announcement: Let a single benchmark for each product line appear in geekbench

29 days before announcement: Read macrumors forum. Laugh a lot!

1 week before announcement: Leak a set of new product identifiers.

1 day before announcement: Blurry pictures of new machines arriving at resellers. Scatter some information about fake new features (touch screen, double screen, fingerprint sensor)

announcement: Just the same machine as last year, but with that new CPU that Intel sells now ;)
 
bill-p said:
And for those who think they may offer two models of the rMBP 15" at the same time (one with dGPU and one with Iris Pro), it makes no sense.
Click to expand...

How quickly people forget the past! - Apple has done it before. In Mid-2009 to Mid-2010 the MacBook Pro was offered in two SKU's

15" with only 9400m (Integrated in the chipset)
and
15" with both the 9400m and a dedicated 9600GT.

So please, it makes perfect sense they did it just 3 years ago!

For those wanting to look it up: MacBookPro5,4
 
Quu said:
How quickly people forget the past! - Apple has done it before. In Mid-2009 to Mid-2010 the MacBook Pro was offered in two SKU's

15" with only 9400m (Integrated in the chipset)
and
15" with both the 9400m and a dedicated 9600GT.

So please, it makes perfect sense they did it just 3 years ago!

For those wanting to look it up: MacBookPro5,4
Click to expand...

This is what I'm hoping for.

It doesn't make much sense to reduce GPU performance, especially when there is a need to drive such a high resolution. Its possible that Apple might offer the iGPU-only configuration of the rMBP as a substitute for the cMBP - as it may be discontinued this round of updates.
 
Quu said:
How quickly people forget the past! - Apple has done it before. In Mid-2009 to Mid-2010 the MacBook Pro was offered in two SKU's

15" with only 9400m (Integrated in the chipset)
and
15" with both the 9400m and a dedicated 9600GT.

So please, it makes perfect sense they did it just 3 years ago!

For those wanting to look it up: MacBookPro5,4
Click to expand...

Yes, it does make sense. And now integrated graphics only makes sense for maybe the first time with the 15" rMBP at least on of a subset of models. I do think there is a high likelihood we will have a choice.
 
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