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Waiting for Skylake MBP thread
- Thread starter adildacoolset
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I don't agree, for the plain and simple reason that the margins on MBP are huge (from the start), and they're huge because the components are ****** & lame (unless you max out the machine).
I mean, whether you talk about the RAM version and the RAM upgrade back in the day when you could change it yourself, the HDD when SSD were the norm already in high end products, extremely costly SSD upgrade for a basis that wasn't great in terms of capacity, USB3 which took ages, the DVD & DVD burner, which were *pure unalduterated ***** when the competition had faster and better drives (faster players, faster burners when Mac only had a crappy cd player; and then crappy, slow DVD combo when others had Blu-ray players and even burners!).
And it will be the same this time I'm pretty sure : no Kaby Lake (we've been there), no OLED screen (but a oled bar gimmick), no particularly impressive resolution for the screen ... I'm not even sure we'll have TB3 (I mean, that would suck given they will replace their screens at one point but hey, next iteration isn't it ? ).
No, the force of the MBP has always been the software, the hardware was always lame & overpriced, with a couple of exceptions : Retina (impressive jump in quality at the time), trackpad (not sure why the competition can't catch up but that's true).
Doing my prep work to order as soon as they drop.
Debating if I would get the dGPU version (if it exists...) or iGPU.
Can you disable the dGPU when you are on the battery? And is it easy to do? It seems the dGPU runs makes the computer run hotter, drains the battery quite a lot more and much louder fan noise even doing basic tasks compared to the Iris only version.
I would really appreciate a dGPU but if its in exchange of all that, it would make me reconsider since I would only very rarely need the dGPU power when on battery.
Debating if I would get the dGPU version (if it exists...) or iGPU.
Can you disable the dGPU when you are on the battery? And is it easy to do? It seems the dGPU runs makes the computer run hotter, drains the battery quite a lot more and much louder fan noise even doing basic tasks compared to the Iris only version.
I would really appreciate a dGPU but if its in exchange of all that, it would make me reconsider since I would only very rarely need the dGPU power when on battery.
I disagree. When the macs are at the start of their cycle. There components are not lame. And very arguably the best you can get. Thats why we buy them. That's why this thread is 1050 pages long.
I am not sure I follow what you are trying to say with the HDD / SSD upgrade.
I can not comment on apple back in the day of CD players, because I only followed their products since '07 or so.
Right, apple did not upgrade to blu-ray players because Apple believed they were a bad component choice for a computer... They were right. How many high-end laptops do you see today with blu-ray players.
Correct no kaby lake. They will use the most up-to-date skylake processors for this laptop class.
Right, they will probably not have an OLED screen, but they will have fantastic quality screens, and arguably they will most likely have the best quality laptop screens available on the market. When the rMBP launched it had the best laptop screen on the market. Currently, the rMB has one of the best quality displays on the market, and especially so at that form factor. When the new 2016 MBP launches it will most likely have one of the best, or the best laptop display on the market.
The myth that Mac / MacBook hardware is crappy, and people buy them only because of the software is totally frustrating.
Sure, some people may buy Macs just because it runs Mac OS. But there are also people who buy macs and run windows on them, because they need or prefer windows and the mac hardware is the best on the market.
If Apple do do an external dGPU, you can bet it will be packaged with the 27" display, and Apple being Apple will make it as difficult as possible for third party solutions to work natively with OS X unless Apple see`s financial benefit.
Q-6
I am think once Macs have TB3. eGPU support will just work, even if Apple does nothing to make them work.
someone correct me if I am wrong
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I think someone posted a few pages back, a thunderbolt 2 eGPU working fine on OS X already.
But Apple does support USB-C and Thunderbolt, so someone else can.
Nope, that one is bigger&better! GubbyMan explained it very well.
The Falcon 9 is still an amazing rocket, though.
I already knew it, but it's always amazing! I loved the Rosetta Mission and what were we capable to do!
No new rumors
I just checked the four pages
Where are the invites, Apple?! Or the rumors?! Or.. or... something, I don't know! Just give us the MBP already!
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Yeah the windows part is true and also if the screen is going to be upgraded i might have to think twice about jumping the ship but if the i/o is s*it and the specs are underwhelming i rather render my projects in 30 sec with a windows machine than wait 30 minutes with a underpowered mac
Haha yep. This thread gets a serious uptick when we're weeks away from an imminent probable maybe hopeful that an announcement is coming.
Nope. I insist, it's the OS. And it's also for many, the original investment in Mac in terms of software, music, the ecosystem you can't easily get out of.
If you think their hardware is the best at each of their iteration, I'm not even sure what to tell you. It's just not true, plain and simply. I have you examples but you ignore them all.
I invite you to compare CPU, SSD speed, RAM speed of macs vs, I don't know, about each and every high end laptop of every brand similarly priced ? That's one example of lame hardware.
- When SSD were already starting to be popular and not so expensive, Apple still released a machine with HDD.
That's a second example of lame hardware. And if memory serves well, that lasted 2 cycles (3?).
- When they introduce SSD, they weren't the fastest ones (that's ok) but they had such a low capacity compared to the competition ! Usually half of what the other high end laptop were offering, and STILL at a higher price. so you needed to upgrade and pay a fortune.
That's a third example of lame hardware
- Simply put, they had a cd player while other laptops had dvd players.
That's a fourth example of lame hardware
- Then they had DVD players when other had DVD burners
That's a fifth example of lame hardware
- Then they kept their ultra ******, ultra noisy, ultra slow (8x!) combo player, for many, many iterations.
Others had much faster drives, and even bluray players / and bluray burners !
That's a 6th example of lame hardware.
Do you see many firewire peripherals these days ? Do you see many DVD players ? Because a technology has changed doesn't mean it made no sense at the time.
The only reason Apple didn't go with Bluray is because this would reduce their margins on MB, and because they didn't want to pay royalties, and because they were trying to lock you in their itunes ecosystem.
Same story with HDMI, which took many cycles to finally appear in macs. Oh, a 7th example of lame hardware!
Which ... Will be lame hardware. For 2016 and 2017 until the next cycle. And thus gives us an 8th example of lame hardware.
We didn't talk about USB3. How many cycles without it while it was the norm in every other competitors ? 2 ? 3 ?
Definitely the 9th example of lame hardware.
uhh, in case you haven't seen the pattern so far, there are good chances that, in fact, it won't be the case.
I'd say it's a potential 10th example of lame hardware, as OLED screens are already out there, but I'll give it a pass, because OLED screens aren't the norm. It surely will be at the iteration after this one, and I bet Apple still won't have it.
It is not a myth, I hope the above demonstrated it clearly !
You also haven't answered the margins issue. If a company makes huge margins vs fabrication costs, like it's the case on MBP, it's either because the item is overpriced, or because it contains cheap, outdated components.
Both, in the case of MBP !
I would say the components of an iPad or iPhone are cheap and outdated. Overpriced yes, but it's not garbage.
I think you tend to forget the main driving forces : 1) Marketing 2) Being already invested in Mac.
Then comes the rest.
I'm sorry if I sound bitter. I guess I am. Every time it's the same issue.
Even with "revolutions" (and there weren't many), there was always problems :
- For the thin form factor : Overheating on MBP, very slow machine for MBA.
- For Retina, the first screen had a lot of problems, and the machines were slow (if not maxed out).
This thread is reminding me of the guy who is trying to walk to the edge of the universe in Minecraft. He was actually featured in The New Yorker in 2014. Looks like he's still at it...
Something poetic about just walking the earth with no end in sight.
Something poetic about just walking the earth with no end in sight.
Consider this. The satisfaction (or dissatisfaction) one experiences with a product is a "construct".... a collage. One may use a feature, like the trackpad", to account for the satisfaction one experiences and the desire to differentiate the product from competing alternatives. While one may point out a feature or two to justify the positive response to a product but it is almost impossible to decompose the user experience into hardware or software in most cases. There is this concept of "service dominant logic" that suggests that even tangible products are nothing more than services. So when you buy a "Mac" you are buying a lot more than the sum total of its components. You are buying an experience, a perception and an idea that a Mac is superior.
If you agree to this idea, then it easier to see that it is not possible to pronounce a Mac (or even a Windows machine) crap. Whether it is crap or not is a perception and it is most definitely subjective. Each individual "constructs" his or her individual experience and perceptions of using a product. Imagine, while doing that one's attitude, perceptions, learning and self, ends up partnering the product in generating the end user experience!
I apologise if it sounds like a lecture!
That I totally agree (and well-worded!) ! That's why I say it's objectively crap hardware with a couple exceptions.
Subjectively is another story. And I insist again, the OS (which is good, stable, free of virus, easy to work with as a developer) counts for a lot in this impression.
Also if someone suggests something with similar quality mouse + keyboard I'm in for it.
My wild guess is it will work, but it will be slow. Remember the Retina MBP, and the entry-levels MBP : it was slow as hell.
You are simply wrong. Most of your examples are incorrect. And I will show you.
It is not true. You are wrong. I cannot show you a good example right now, because they are all over due for updates.
I do however invite you to show me an example of a competing computer that has the same specifications and is similarly priced.
Take the 13.3" rMBP it launched in 2012, and all through 2012-2014 and maybe even 2015.
There were no competing notebooks available, that has as fast a of a CPU/GPU, as small of form factor, as good battery life, as good quality display, at a lower price. Please feel free to prove me wrong.
There was one laptop that was quite close, it one of the Asus zenbooks. And the zen book was for sure a very nice laptop with very good hardware and well designed. However, when matched with same ssd/ram etc with MacBook pro. The zenbook was about $200 more expensive.
And same is true for other macs. When they are atleast somewhat current.
If you walk into best buy right now half the laptops will have an HDD. and over half the desktops have HDDs still. Apple moved to SSD quicker than most pc manufacturers.
wrong.
They did not have lower capacity than other laptops at the same price, with all other specifications the same.
Sure. I can't verify that.
But those examples are over 10 years ago, highly irrelevant today.
Apple did not go with bluray players because it was not a technology they were interested in. I think most people on this forum will agree that we are happy we don't have to use bluray discs and blu-ray drives in our laptops today.
Wrong, how is using the most up-to-date processors available an example of lame hardware??
What ? Apple went to usb 3.0 as soon as the others did.
Just because OLEDs are a pattern. Doesn't mean apple can't make a excellent or better quality screen without using it this cycle.
You have not.
I am not denying apple has higher profit margins.You also haven't answered the margins issue. If a company makes huge margins vs fabrication costs, like it's the case on MBP, it's either because the item is overpriced, or because it contains cheap, outdated components.
Both, in the case of MBP !
It does, equally once Apple has a product, we can expect that change. Apple wants to fully control the users environment for the better or the worse, just a matter of time before Apple locks eGPU down. If no revenue stream for Apple they will react negatively, same as companies selling Hacintosh`s.
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