Don't know why everybody wants smaller bezels, the Dell XPS webcam is gimped because of the smaller bezel.till waiting, where are the leaks????!
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Waiting for Skylake MBP thread
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Wreckus
macrumors 65816
Honestly, I didn't use the webcam on my MacBook or my Imac at all and I wouldn't shed a tear or get angry if Dell just axed the webcam altogether. However, I just tried the webcam to see what its like while sitting back and its not too bad. Sure it feels weird a bit but it's not horrible in any sense.
With that being said, I can honestly say that I can't go back to any laptop with large bezels after using my new dell XPS 15.
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Not surprised but I think Apple is making a big mistake if put all their eggs in the iOS basket. A lot of people still uses and need OS X (MacOS) because they use programs that are not available in the Mac App store. Which is why they are focusing on iOS so much. They successfully locked down the iOS so all your apps needs to be through the iOS app store and they make a crapload of money because of that.
IMO, all Apple needs to do is put a crapload of money in promoting the Mac App store to every programmer and lower their % they receive from every app bought. Also, welcome free apps (open office, etc) and front the costs (If any) on hosting those free apps.
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I'm not exactly a Windows fan. For work I'm forced to use a Windows phone and I can't stand it. Love the menu, but so few apps and it keeps turning itself off.
That said - I think W10 (at least Signature Edition) is very decent. When it is configured the way I want I find it faster to move around in than El Capitan. Not sure if anyone can call it objectively awful (there might be specific things that your you personally means it doesn't work, but that doesn't make it awful).
For me personally only two significant weaknesses. Battery life is not very impressive and I still much prefer an Apple trackpad.
For the first time in many years Windows seems at least to be moving in the right direction.
That said - I think W10 (at least Signature Edition) is very decent. When it is configured the way I want I find it faster to move around in than El Capitan. Not sure if anyone can call it objectively awful (there might be specific things that your you personally means it doesn't work, but that doesn't make it awful).
For me personally only two significant weaknesses. Battery life is not very impressive and I still much prefer an Apple trackpad.
For the first time in many years Windows seems at least to be moving in the right direction.
ThisBougieLife
Suspended
Reasons why I won't use Windows 10:
-As people have said, the hybrid UI. The "split" nature of the OS. The "two control panels"--one accessible from "Settings" in the Start Menu and one accessible from the classic "Control Panel". One set of settings please, not two.
-For those of us who type foreign characters frequently, this could not be easier in OS X. It's as simple as holding down a certain key. On Windows, you need to memorize alt codes, and these only work if you have a numpad, so for most laptops, it's useless.
-Scaling. Windows 10 scaling is still sub-par compared to OS X. Many programs simply don't scale at all and will appear blurry on a scaled resolution. After using a retina display, I'm in a post-1080p era as far as I'm concerned.
-For those of us who have iOS devices, the integration with OS X makes everything easier (such as iMessage on OS X, as well as shared apps like Photos, and upcoming in Sierra, better iCloud integration).
Even less so because the 2015s don't have USB-C or Thunderbolt 3. So much potential there, I refuse to buy one without TB3 (and already have USB-C 10Gb devices on my desk using USB-C to USB-A converters.)
1. Agree. Also considering Control Panel is actually Microsoft own "app", they must have fixed this already.
2. You mean foreign characters like unicode smiles or like foreign language? Because I'm not a resident of a country with English as one and only language, and I do have two languages set up - primary English (since I'm an IT guy I need to type a lot in English), secondary - my national language. As far as I'm concerned there is no difference between Windows 10 (previously - 7) and OS X. There is one minor bug in OS X that makes you enter 1-2 letters in previous language if you change the language and start typing too fast but it happens infrequently and not that massive.
3. Well, of two - backwards compatibility and everything looking the same - you can only choose one. I doubt there is any big modern app (like Photoshop, AutoCAD or something) which does not scale in Windows 10. However, yes, there are a lot of old still working apps that don't. Not because Microsoft does not want them to but because Windows ecosystem is much less homogenous. And I can't say it's their problem, it's just different compromise - Windows has much more different apps than OS X, OS X has much more homogenous interface. On the other hand, Apple dreams about the amount of games Microsoft has for their Windows ecosystem. (And Steam for Linux is still very small compared to Windows.) Microsoft dreams about the amount of Games Apple has for their iOS ecosystem in return, but that's a different story. 🙂
4. For me it's vice versa. I hate everything bound to one eco-system as it makes you vendor lock in and also, from certain size of the owner, makes its owner to give preferences to its own devices. For this I like Windows (their trend is negative though, they want to be like Apple in this field) and Linux both politically and practically much more than Apple. I don't like it when in Safari Apple knows how to switch back from dGPU to iGPU and in Chrome/Firefox (AFAIK) they don't as this API is not exposed to them. I hate it when on iPhone all browsers have to use Apple's internal engine. I hated it even more when I stumbled upon a page that crashed Safari on my iPhone 6 - it crashed all other browsers as well because, well, internally they use the same thing on iPhones.
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ThisBougieLife
Suspended
Let me clarify a bit about the foreign characters: I'm not referring to switching between an English keyboard, and say, a French keyboard, but being able to type foreign characters while maintaining the English keyboard. For example, I frequently type Latin sentences for schoolwork (and will continue to do so in college since I'll be studying it). This requires the use of letters with macrons (e.g. ā). On a Mac, to type ā, all I need to do is hold down the <A> key and select ā. On Windows, you either need to enter in the alt code for ā, copy and paste it from the character map, or temporarily switch to a foreign keyboard layout that uses ā, like Latvian or Lithuanian. No such trouble with a Mac. It's not that I want to type entirely in a foreign keyboard, it's that I want to occasionally insert characters like ā or é by doing nothing other than pressing a couple keys on the keyboard, not having to enter in codes or switch keyboard layouts. OS X, iOS, and Android allow this. Windows doesn't. I wish they'd catch up in this regard.
Something else that annoys me about Windows: the ordering of numbers. I create a lot of classical playlists, including lists of symphonies and concerti and such. On Windows, the ordering is such that:
1. Symphony No. 1
2. Symphony No. 10
3. Symphony No. 2
In order to get it in the right order (in say, iTunes), I'd have to put zeroes in front of the 1 and 2. On Mac, it orders them correctly without having to do this. It would at least be nice to have the option to order them correctly without the need for extra zeroes (enter Haydn's symphonies, where 1 zero isn't enough).
So...obviously, I recognize that these issues are very specific to me and to my life, but that's exactly what I'm saying here: I prefer OS X, and this is why.
Something else that annoys me about Windows: the ordering of numbers. I create a lot of classical playlists, including lists of symphonies and concerti and such. On Windows, the ordering is such that:
1. Symphony No. 1
2. Symphony No. 10
3. Symphony No. 2
In order to get it in the right order (in say, iTunes), I'd have to put zeroes in front of the 1 and 2. On Mac, it orders them correctly without having to do this. It would at least be nice to have the option to order them correctly without the need for extra zeroes (enter Haydn's symphonies, where 1 zero isn't enough).
So...obviously, I recognize that these issues are very specific to me and to my life, but that's exactly what I'm saying here: I prefer OS X, and this is why.
frankgrimes
macrumors 6502a
1. So the solution would be for me to create a custom ISO of my current setup, burn it and then use my RW to plugin the CD and install it via BIOS right?
2, 3. If Apple does strip the legacy Bootcamp support...I'm screwed? Man that would suck because I think Apple has a huge opportunity here. If they still support bootcamp while MS is basically forcing Kabylake CPUs distributors to make it not work with Windows 7 ...Apple could win bnig if they still support it. My solution would be deleting the newest bootcamp version and install version 5.1
4. If Apple does that then the wait would be for nothing and I'm better of buying a full specced 13 inch right now right?
5. Luckly, I don't want a DGPU in my notebook...since I'm not going to do any 3D Max or 4k rendering stuff on it, I need it to get productivity stuff done. I think even Windows 10 has problems with the iGPU and eGPU see the Surfacebook troubles. If both Apple and MS can't fix this problem it might be more complicated than a lot of us believed it to be maybe thats the reason why we haven't seen the Surfacebook 2 nor the new MBP?
6. Can there be a middle ground let's say 175 % that still works and not breaking things or is that impossible?
7. That's not good at all if I'*m paying a premium price for a UHD resolution I want to utilize it.
8. That's the only thing I've really been aware of but it's not problem for me since I would just swap the HDD for an SDD if Apple doesn't include one from the get go. I know Windows 10 is much faster but I'm not worried about a few extra seconds.
Anyhow, thank you for the great contribution really appreciate that because I thought, I woul buy it - install bootcamp - insert CD - install Win 7 and be good to go. For me peronsally MacOS is too complicated I'm just not a fan of gestures and trackpad driven interaction, that's why I've paid almost 80 bucks for the Logitech Anywhere Mouse back then and this thing is still running g reat and no trackpad will ever replace the precision of it.
I know a lot of people like Win 10 and if it wasn't for all the false decisions from MS I would install it but MS has lost a lot of trust from me with their forced updates, advertisements and complete disrespect for privacy and consumer preferences.
justywusty
macrumors 6502
Unlikely. Most people buy a computer when they need one. They don't wait for the next best thing. If you are doing work and your Mac craps out on you, you really don't care if the current model has Skylake or an OLED bar.
From Apple's website on iPad Pro:
"
The power of a PC. And the power to go beyond it.
iPad Pro is powerful enough to easily take on tasks once reserved for PCs. And many you could never do on a PC. With just a touch, swipe or jot, you can write, email, surf, scan, render, design, redesign and do pretty much anything you need to."
From Apple's website on the 12-inch MacBook:
"
Our goal with MacBook was to do the impossible: engineer a full‑size experience into the lightest and most compact Mac notebook ever. That meant reimagining every element to make it not only lighter and thinner but also better. The result is more than just a new notebook. It’s the future of the notebook. And now, with sixth‑generation Intel processors, improved graphics performance, faster flash storage and up to 10 hours of battery life,* MacBook is even more capable."
And Apple's confused road sign during a presentation indicating that Microsoft is uncertain about what product it is making (oh the irony):
"
The power of a PC. And the power to go beyond it.
iPad Pro is powerful enough to easily take on tasks once reserved for PCs. And many you could never do on a PC. With just a touch, swipe or jot, you can write, email, surf, scan, render, design, redesign and do pretty much anything you need to."
From Apple's website on the 12-inch MacBook:
"
Our goal with MacBook was to do the impossible: engineer a full‑size experience into the lightest and most compact Mac notebook ever. That meant reimagining every element to make it not only lighter and thinner but also better. The result is more than just a new notebook. It’s the future of the notebook. And now, with sixth‑generation Intel processors, improved graphics performance, faster flash storage and up to 10 hours of battery life,* MacBook is even more capable."
And Apple's confused road sign during a presentation indicating that Microsoft is uncertain about what product it is making (oh the irony):
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1-3. Yes, custom ISO, you would need to inject NVMe and USB drivers (I don't even know if USB 3.1 drivers exist for Windows 7). As per my experience with rMBP 15" late-2013, you'd be able to boot from USB but Windows 7 installer just won't see keyboard, touchpad or any other device you plug in to USB 3.0 ports (I don't know how this works - being able to boot from the USB drive but any USB 3.0 device not working); when BootCamp blesses the next reboot, miraculously they all start working without the drivers. So if Apple removes Windows 7 support from BootCamp you will have to use custom ISO.
4. If Apple removes legacy BIOS mode support (Windows 7 support in BootCamp and legacy BIOS mode support by the hardware are different things), you will have to make Windows 7 USB and then Windows 7 itself to boot in EFI mode. There are attempts to do this and so far as far as I'm aware there is no easy or flawless way. You will have to use some hacking with non-Apple EFI bootloaders. And you will lose some functionality like no keyboard backlight or not being able to sleep.
4.1. I wasn't aware myself (since I haven't tried Windows 7 on my current rMBP yet): rMBPs 2015 already do not support Windows 7. https://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/20/new-macbook-pro-air-no-windows-7-bootcamp/ There are ways to install it but all of them are hack-y.
5. It's not that it has problems, Windows (both 7 and 10 I think) just won't see iGPU if you have dGPU. Apple just doesn't let them. 🙂 But with iGPU alone you'd be spared from this problem.
6. To be fair I'm not sure. I've only tried 150% and 200%. But I think there will be problems, I'll explain why: there are two options - 150% and custom font size. If you need to set up 175% you will have to use custom, the same as for 200%. And I don't see any chance it working any better. Although I might be wrong. I won't be able to check it for several weeks (I'm far from home atm) so you better check this online. I think it's not rMBP-dedicated problem, it's just the way Windows 7 works.
6.1. By the way this scaling does not work at all in some apps. The most famous basic example would be Microsoft Solitaire from Microsoft themselves. 😛
7. Yup, exactly my thoughts. Again, as for previous point, there might be ways to solve it. I searched a little and haven't found any but I still might be wrong.
8. Just so you know - Apple SSDs are proprietary and there are no premises that say this will change with the new rMBP. And it's this much proprietary that OWC (they specialize in selling non-Apple Macs equipment) was able to sell rMBP late-2013 compatible SSDs only in 2015. You will have at least 128GB PCI-E SSD since Apple no longer installs HDDs in rMBPs but if you need more than 128GB you will have to order custom configuration right away. You will not be able to just buy any M.2 PCI-E SSD from the market and install it.
P. S. You've used "insert CD" several times. You're aware MacBook Pros no longer have internal CD/DVD/Blu-Ray drive, right?
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iPad Pro is the reason iMacs will be discontinued!
MacBook Pros are spared! Notebooks have future!
4. If Apple removes legacy BIOS mode support (Windows 7 support in BootCamp and legacy BIOS mode support by the hardware are different things), you will have to make Windows 7 USB and then Windows 7 itself to boot in EFI mode. There are attempts to do this and so far as far as I'm aware there is no easy or flawless way. You will have to use some hacking with non-Apple EFI bootloaders. And you will lose some functionality like no keyboard backlight or not being able to sleep.
4.1. I wasn't aware myself (since I haven't tried Windows 7 on my current rMBP yet): rMBPs 2015 already do not support Windows 7. https://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/20/new-macbook-pro-air-no-windows-7-bootcamp/ There are ways to install it but all of them are hack-y.
5. It's not that it has problems, Windows (both 7 and 10 I think) just won't see iGPU if you have dGPU. Apple just doesn't let them. 🙂 But with iGPU alone you'd be spared from this problem.
6. To be fair I'm not sure. I've only tried 150% and 200%. But I think there will be problems, I'll explain why: there are two options - 150% and custom font size. If you need to set up 175% you will have to use custom, the same as for 200%. And I don't see any chance it working any better. Although I might be wrong. I won't be able to check it for several weeks (I'm far from home atm) so you better check this online. I think it's not rMBP-dedicated problem, it's just the way Windows 7 works.
6.1. By the way this scaling does not work at all in some apps. The most famous basic example would be Microsoft Solitaire from Microsoft themselves. 😛
7. Yup, exactly my thoughts. Again, as for previous point, there might be ways to solve it. I searched a little and haven't found any but I still might be wrong.
8. Just so you know - Apple SSDs are proprietary and there are no premises that say this will change with the new rMBP. And it's this much proprietary that OWC (they specialize in selling non-Apple Macs equipment) was able to sell rMBP late-2013 compatible SSDs only in 2015. You will have at least 128GB PCI-E SSD since Apple no longer installs HDDs in rMBPs but if you need more than 128GB you will have to order custom configuration right away. You will not be able to just buy any M.2 PCI-E SSD from the market and install it.
P. S. You've used "insert CD" several times. You're aware MacBook Pros no longer have internal CD/DVD/Blu-Ray drive, right?
[doublepost=1470600025][/doublepost]Hmmm... Breaking news guys. We're all spared!11
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iPad Pro is the reason iMacs will be discontinued!
MacBook Pros are spared! Notebooks have future!
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I assume that's why Apple just had a terrible quarter for the Mac that coincided with a very stale looking Mac lineup. Lots of people do buy a laptop as and when they need one, but there are also many–evidenced by this forum–who are willing to wait.
My Mac is 6 years old and it works, so I'm in the position of wanting a new and fast machine, but I don't need one. There are many people in the same position who are prepared to wait.
navaira
macrumors 601
Or people like me are thinking about switching FROM Windows (update issues and an attitude where Microsoft's software design philosophy assumes everyone has a fast, unlimited data connection for their home PCs are my personal reasons), but the combination of two generations old processor, unwillingness to lower prices, and a lack of future-oriented ports (USB-C) make it a smart move to wait.
I'm still getting by on my Windows desktop/laptop combo. If something were to break on me, I'd have some hard choices to make. Though I'm not upset by Apple's decision to keep old MBP prices high, I'm also not dumb enough to buy at those prices. Depending on what breaks, I'd probably think about repairs and keep waiting for an MBP with good price/performance. But if replacement were my only option... I don't know what I would do.
I just think those people are so infrequent that Apple just wrote them off in favor of releasing a redesigned MBP at the perfect time for sales. It just might turn out the "perfect time" is to release it next to a bad iPhone to distract from the iPhone 6.3 (iPhone 6FU?)'s awfulness.
No one cares about your "I use" or "I don't use" Windows ****, stop spamming this topic, thx.
porkchop9000
macrumors newbie
Why not. People have been waiting forever and people are curious how many are giving up and going used mbp, new MacBook, or going with the competition.
Also pageCount++
ShadovvMoon
macrumors 6502
I saw it mentioned that OS X had forced updates? Let me clarify the important differences...
OS X - Hey! An update is available. You should probably install this... Let us know when you're ready.
Windows 10 - An update is available. Installing update... Windows encountered an unexpected error
iOS - An update is available. Remind me later. An update is available. Remind me later. An update is available. Remind me later. An update is available. Remind me later. An update is available. Remind me later. An update is available. Remind me later. An update is available. Ugh fine.
OS X - Hey! An update is available. You should probably install this... Let us know when you're ready.
Windows 10 - An update is available. Installing update... Windows encountered an unexpected error
iOS - An update is available. Remind me later. An update is available. Remind me later. An update is available. Remind me later. An update is available. Remind me later. An update is available. Remind me later. An update is available. Remind me later. An update is available. Ugh fine.
ThisBougieLife
Suspended
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