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I was thinking earlier about the TDP of the Macbook pros, and largely, they seem to be around the 80W region for the 15"; approx 50W for the CPU and 35W for the GPU, I assume, plus some throttling for good measure. There was a really interesting article on arstechnica about cooling technologies last year. Given apples approach to thinner, non-user-serviceable machines, perhaps they could move beyond an air cooling solution? It's nothing I'm expecting, but if they created a thin mesh at the bottom of the case, they could have a uniform heat distribution and by using an intermediary liquid medium they could increase the thermal dissipation and avoid hotspots. This would allow either a higher TDP allowance, or as apple would do it, a thinner enclosure.

Just a bit of food for thought.

http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/20...puters-with-biological-brain-like-efficiency/
 
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how's the trackpad on the MSI laptops? That's pretty much the only reason i stick with apple at this point
God awful. Plastic, with vertical ridges. Two fingered scrolling barely works. It's the worst I've used.

Still love the frame rates on WoW, though. With a 970m and only a 1080p screen I'm hitting my 60 fps cap without hardly heating up the laptop...
 
God awful. Plastic, with vertical ridges. Two fingered scrolling barely works. It's the worst I've used.

Still love the frame rates on WoW, though. With a 970m and only a 1080p screen I'm hitting my 60 fps cap without hardly heating up the laptop...

What settings do you use medium or everything maxed out? Does that work in raids too?
 
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What settings do you use medium or everything maxed out? Does that work in raids too?
Completely maxed, every setting pegged. Haven't done raiding in years, sadly (I have a 3-year old and a 1-year old and can't spend even 45 minutes for a LFR without lots of destruction and crying), but there is no noticeable slowdown in 5-mans. It might even be a speed up due to limited view distance and a reduction in people compared to Stormwind...

The 40 man scenario to start Legion was fine, didn't notice a slowdown.

And I use a razer orochi Bluetooth mouse for gaming, so don't mind the horrifying trackpad...but it is really bad.
[doublepost=1471479540][/doublepost]
What settings do you use medium or everything maxed out? Does that work in raids too?
Oh, forgot to say, I only get about 45fps in Stormwind during busy times. Way better than any Mac I've ever used, sadly. I really prefer Macs but couldn't justify spending $2500 on a three year old processor and 2 year old dGPU for a machine I mostly wanted for my few minutes of recreational gaming time...
 
The cheapest Chinese manufacturer is perfectly capable of putting current intel CPU/GPUs in a computer. You don't need to completely redesign a chassis to do that at all.

I currently own a broken 2012 15" rMBP. If I want to replace it, after 4 years I'd get a CPU that was a single generation newer, instead of 4.

Apple is no longer a computer company. They now just make trinkets, trash, toys, and headphones.

Apple abandoned me, I didn't abandon them.
 
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The cheapest Chinese manufacturer is perfectly capable of putting current intel CPU/GPUs in a computer. You don't need to completely redesign a chassis to do that at all.

I currently own a broken 2012 15" rMBP. If I want to replace it, after 4 years I'd get a CPU that was a single generation newer, instead of 4.

Apple is no longer a computer company. They now just make trinkets, trash, toys, and headphones.

Apple abandoned me, I didn't abandon them.

Figured it was about time to post the same garbage again? Go get a cheap chinese knockoff computer if you want one so bad.
 
I wish I was arrogant enough to judge other people's opinions.

You keep spouting off about how Apple doesn't make computers (they do) and what they do make is garbage (it isn't), and how they should just shove the latest processors into their (garbage) computers to make them good again. It's nonsense, not an opinion.

A major refresh is imminent using chips that are just now becoming available, despite what everyone here seems to want, Apple doesn't just cram stuff in a box and ship it. Some Chinese knockoff PC manufacturer is not making better hardware than Apple because they have a slightly newer processor in it.

Here's a comment I just read on AI — let this sink in a bit:

"The common conception that Apple is behind on that (or on laptop upgrades in general) is less than half true, really. I do have one of the Dell XPS 15 laptops with USB-C/TB3 (mainly got it to give my MS System Center / MCSE lectures, since Apple did not sell anything portable capable of supporting 32 GBs of RAM). Yes, the machine has a 6th generation quad-core i7 and the newest in ports. But in real life they needed something like 8 months to make the UEFI and drivers work somewhat, almost the same amount of time to deliver the needed peripherals and adapters, it still does not drive 5k displays and driving two external UHD displays requires a $350 dock, some things do still work randomly today (like wake from sleep in general and waking up external displays in particular). And... in real life use this 6th gen CPU does not feel much faster than my 2012 retina MBP while lasting about half as long on a full charge... Add to that Windows 10s still more than glaring power management, hibernation, font rendering and high DPI scaling issues... and I still would not prefer this piece of junk over my 4 year old MBP for any other task. Maybe Apple simply decided to not even go there until Intel has worked out the most glaring issues... which can't be said even today."

Apple tries its hardest to NOT ship garbage computers with the above issues. So, be patient and you'll be rewarded with a computer company shipping an amazingly great product which will actually work.
 
You keep spouting off about how Apple doesn't make computers (they do) and what they do make is garbage (it isn't), and how they should just shove the latest processors into their (garbage) computers to make them good again. It's nonsense, not an opinion.

I work with my computer. I spend money on a current premium computer so I can compete with other people in my industry.

The biggest issue is the Intel Graphics.

15" Macbook Pro available today.
Iris Pro Graphics 5200 -- 832 GFLOPS

Modern Intel Products.
Iris Pro Graphics 580 -- 1152 GLOPS.

Again, I fully understand and respect that you are fine with a computer just being a fashion statement, but I need to get some work done.
 
... The biggest issue is the Intel Graphics...

not only, also:

- touchscreen
- bezelless screen
- user replaceable ssd --> try a samsung sm960 nvme ssd in your XPS and you will see what speed is and how you can save time
- user replaceable memory
- lower temperatures aka less disturbing noise

yes the xps is not perfect but very, very good, it laks pen input and they have some quality problems, but at least the windows market is innovative and you get the work done, very fast with more comfort
 
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not only, also:

- touchscreen
- bezelless screen
- user replaceable ssd --> try a samsung sm960 nvme ssd in your XPS and you will see what speed is and how you can save time
- user replaceable memory
- lower temperatures aka less disturbing noise

yes the xps is not perfect but very, very good, it laks pen input and they have some quality problems, but at least the windows market is innovative and you get the work done, very fast with more comfort

I love OS X, I was an Apple fanboy. That's why I'm so angry that Apple abandoned me.

That being said, Windows 10 is usable and I'd say good enough. There comes a point where the OS isn't worth buying old junk hardware
 
I work with my computer. I spend money on a current premium computer so I can compete with other people in my industry.

The biggest issue is the Intel Graphics.

15" Macbook Pro available today.
Iris Pro Graphics 5200 -- 832 GFLOPS

Modern Intel Products.
Iris Pro Graphics 580 -- 1152 GLOPS.

Again, I fully understand and respect that you are fine with a computer just being a fashion statement, but I need to get some work done.

If you're truly working with stuff where 300 GFLOPS makes you "more competitive" in your industry you should just get something with a GTX 1080 and be at 8000+ GFLOPS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16834154279
 
If you're truly working with stuff where 300 GFLOPS makes you "more competitive" in your industry you should just get something with a GTX 1080 and be at 8000+ GFLOPS

Some people care about a fashion statement, others care about a 35% performance increase.

I fully understand that you don't care about nor need a fast computer, but others do.
 
stillhere.jpg


Good morning everyone! My insider source (my dog Gussie) predicts the new MBP will be released on October 26, on a birthday of this thread. You'll notice I didn't mention which year. HOHOHO *collapses on the floor in a puddle of tears*

@WRONG is going to ruin his liver by that time, and Intel announce Coffee Lake, after which I am almost certain Whisky Lake is coming.
 
You keep spouting off about how Apple doesn't make computers (they do)
Oh, ok. I agree with you, yes. Dell, HP, Lenovo, Xiaomi... who else... ah, yes... Apple. They all make computers. No difference between them nowadays except first 4 are up-to-date.
what they do make is garbage (it isn't)
Agree once again. Antiques are not necessarily garbage.
how they should just shove the latest processors into their (garbage) computers to make them good again. It's nonsense, not an opinion.
It's exactly an opinion and not nonsense. On the other hand what you say is not an opinion but targeted aggression and is actually nonsense.
using chips that are just now becoming available
********. They became available in Q1 (i. e. Apple had them to finish their development) and they started shipping since May. In October it would be half a year since then. Again, if there were no other manufacturers using them for like months you could very well say that shoving them inside indeed requires 6 months of work. But it does not, others (and I mean all of them which matter!) have already done it.
You could argue that Apple is waiting for Polaris? But 13" does not need them, they could have updated at least them since it's the thing they do regularly. Waiting to polish their new touch bar? It has nothing to do with Skylake unavailability, they had literally years to polish it. You see, there are just no more excuses. Apple is outdated, period, and has no excuses.
Some Chinese knockoff PC manufacturer is not making better hardware than Apple because they have a slightly newer processor in it.
Actually they do. They do maintainable, (cheap) repairable laptops of the same quality components Apple does. The difference is there are no apologists in every thread for them. Yet.
But in real life they needed something like 8 months to make the UEFI and drivers work somewhat
Apple does not update firmware and does not have problems with, particularly, Wi-Fi like every OS update they make. Got it.
almost the same amount of time to deliver the needed peripherals and adapters
LOL, just don't get me started. Apple was the one who introduced Thunderbolt widely and they still have nearly zero Thunderbolt peripherals.
it still does not drive 5k displays
Need more details. Short - it does. Maybe he got wrong display or laptop without dGPU (indeed even if it has PCI-E 3.0 x4 TB3, iGPU just cannot drive 5K display - the same will be true for new rMBP 13").
driving two external UHD displays requires a $350 dock
There are cheaper docks.
And... in real life use this 6th gen CPU does not feel much faster than my 2012 retina MBP while lasting about half as long on a full charge...
Revelation. I hope he buys new rMBP and writes similar review.
Add to that Windows 10s still more than glaring power management, hibernation, font rendering and high DPI scaling issues...
Well, OS X just does not work on any non-Apple computer without hacks at all. 10 points to Griffi... Microsoft!
I still would not prefer this piece of junk over my 4 year old MBP for any other task. Maybe Apple simply decided to not even go there until Intel has worked out the most glaring issues... which can't be said even today.
Even though all his points are ******** he still mentions Apple is outdated. You should have disagreed with him like you do with us! :)
Apple tries its hardest to NOT ship garbage computers with the above issues. So, be patient and you'll be rewarded with a computer company shipping an amazingly great product which will actually work.
Yay. Instead we have replacement programs* for like every 15" rMBP released in last 5 years. :p Good QC. Way to go, Apple.

* Just don't start a thing about Apple having replacement programs and other manufacturers not making Apple customer service better. No, Apple quite often starts replacement programs long after mass problems arise and suspiciously a month or two before class action lawsuit is finalized. They are made to, not want to. And to be fair other manufacturers have replacement programs as well. But having a much more wide range of laptops the probability of year hearing about it is lower because only small part of their range is affected contrary to Apple where if something happens it's like 1/5 of all their laptop models.
 
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I work with my computer. I spend money on a current premium computer so I can compete with other people in my industry.

The biggest issue is the Intel Graphics.

15" Macbook Pro available today.
Iris Pro Graphics 5200 -- 832 GFLOPS

Modern Intel Products.
Iris Pro Graphics 580 -- 1152 GLOPS.

Again, I fully understand and respect that you are fine with a computer just being a fashion statement, but I need to get some work done.
Yeah, and please tell us where u found the PC with the amazing IPG 580, that u got when Apple abandoned you! PLS tell us!
[doublepost=1471509807][/doublepost]Im so tired of the rants in this thread, if u hate Apple so much then GTFO. And PLS show me other brands shipping 45W i7 GT4e chips. (yeah exept intel)
No the chips have not been available for 6months.
 
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Completely maxed, every setting pegged. Haven't done raiding in years, sadly (I have a 3-year old and a 1-year old and can't spend even 45 minutes for a LFR without lots of destruction and crying), but there is no noticeable slowdown in 5-mans. It might even be a speed up due to limited view distance and a reduction in people compared to Stormwind...

The 40 man scenario to start Legion was fine, didn't notice a slowdown.

And I use a razer orochi Bluetooth mouse for gaming, so don't mind the horrifying trackpad...but it is really bad.
[doublepost=1471479540][/doublepost]
Oh, forgot to say, I only get about 45fps in Stormwind during busy times. Way better than any Mac I've ever used, sadly. I really prefer Macs but couldn't justify spending $2500 on a three year old processor and 2 year old dGPU for a machine I mostly wanted for my few minutes of recreational gaming time...

Thank you, well I did quit WoW with the release of the second expansion, didn't have the time nor drive to play anymore but I can remember there was the possibility of some large raids, altough my prefered one was Karazhan. But being able to play on a laptop with maxed out settings and getting around 45 fps during busy times is nice. Nowadays the only gameI have installed is Minecraft with the HD mod.

Personally I need my new laptop to be more mobile than my old 2011 Vaio Notebook which is 17,4 inch and the battery to last me the full day for work/college..I don't know but I don't think office stuff, light Photoshop work and watching netflix needs a powerful GPU.

The sad thing is, Dell doesn't have their Notebooks ready to test somewhere so it's hard to compare it to the MBP for myself and since HP and their beyond everything customers service are a no go for me, it will come down to Dell and Apple because I doubt the Surfacebook 2 will be ready anytime soon.
 
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Yeah, and please tell us where u found the PC with the amazing IPG 580, that u got when Apple abandoned you! PLS tell us!
[doublepost=1471509807][/doublepost]Im so tired of the rants in this thread, if u hate Apple so much then GTFO. And PLS show me other brands shipping 45W i7 GT4e chips. (yeah exept intel)
No the chips have not been available for 6months.
LOL. Lenovo, HP, Dell (yes, all major manufacturers with bigger market share than Apple) are shipping Skylake Iris Pro laptops since June. And you'd know this if you were a member of this thread for long enough as it has been mentioned several times already.
You hate Apple more than us actually. When you hate the company you don't give it rational critics like we do.
[doublepost=1471512413][/doublepost]
The trolling industry?

Without the trolls and the rants this thread will never reach 1000 pages (especially with all those traitors jumping onto the "Waiting for Kaby Lake" thread) so it's important we all try to get along.
Stop whining about the truth being unsuitable for ya. :)
 
I think as much as I was looking forward to buying this laptop at refresh, I might just be tempted to get a GTX 1060 laptop instead (not the current MSI lineup, maybe an XPS refresh version or when Gigabyte Aero 14 is refreshed with it). That graphics card seems to be such a beast (50-70% faster than 970m, better than a Desktop 980) so although I was not really looking to game on a laptop and hence never even considered a dGPU windows laptop, this level of performance might take me back to laptop gaming...

Scary to think how powerful the GTX 1070/1080 will be in the laptops if a 1060 provides this much performance.
 
I think as much as I was looking forward to buying this laptop at refresh, I might just be tempted to get a GTX 1060 laptop instead (not the current MSI lineup, maybe an XPS refresh version or when Gigabyte Aero 14 is refreshed with it). That graphics card seems to be such a beast (50-70% faster than 970m, better than a Desktop 980) so although I was not really looking to game on a laptop and hence never even considered a dGPU windows laptop, this level of performance might take me back to laptop gaming...

Scary to think how powerful the GTX 1070/1080 will be in the laptops if a 1060 provides this much performance.

Nvidia claims it's around 90 % of the performance of their desktop cards which is a very bold claim and if they fit this into a laptop than wow.
 
Nvidia claims it's around 90 % of the performance of their desktop cards which is a very bold claim and if they fit this into a laptop than wow.
They always measure peak performance. Nobody knows about the thermal profile of the laptop, meaning when it will start throttling.
I prefer stable low-power performance over misbehaving GPU's, at least on my Laptops.
It's really annoying when badly written applications drain your battery.
 
I love OS X, I was an Apple fanboy. Windows 10 is usable and I'd say good enough. There comes a point where the OS isn't worth buying old junk hardware

This is EXACTLY where I sit at the moment: I very much prefer OSX to Windows 10, but I find Apple hardware... lacking :( A few weeks back I had the chance to play around for a day with the Surface Book and it's MAGNIFICIENT! FAR better than any laptop Apple is marketing at the moment.

And I feel the same about the iPhone. Have you guys seen the new Samsung S7/Note7 units?! They're amazing! Unfortunately, I also prefer iOS to Android :(
 
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