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Waiting for Skylake MBP thread
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knassar
macrumors 6502
erich.j.k
macrumors regular
Time for my first post 🙂
I've been actively reading the forums on macrumors and enjoy the various topics regarding the MBPs everyone seems to be waiting for (just like me).
What has happened to the MBP in the last two and a half years is a BIG management error - and not just one.
The MBP should have been updated with a Browadwell chipset early 2015.
It should have been updated with Skylake mid 2016 (asap).
It ought to be updated with Kaby Lake by mid 2017 - and yes, I know this won't happen if Intel won't produce the appropriate chipsets (which they allegedly won't).
I'm still running my early 2011 MPB (non retina). I have added RAM (8GB) and replaced the terribly slow HDD with a SSD. So I wasn't really desperate until the battery died early last year and I looked at Apples lineup - no choices there: pay *full* price for outdated hardware? No.
So I waited and waited. Since there was nochting on the horizon I bought a replacement battery. Not a good choice.
I've never had any luck with the replacement batteries. In the previous MBP (late 2006) I bought an original Apple battery that only lasted about two years before it practically "blew up" (some may remember those batteries
that would grow and grow).
[offtopic]
The current replacement battery (original Apple bought from a reseller) doesn't seem to work correctly either. When it's down to seven percent the MBP just shuts off without warning (doesn't hibernate). SMC/PRAM reset won't cure this. At least I have a couple of hours to get work done before it shuts down.
[/offtopic]
It's a good computer and has been all these years. Now I'd like to replace it. I would have replaced it last year had there been an acceptable deal. I might then even have considered buying the next "model" once it's out and given the previously bought one to my wife who is also in need of a "newer" machine. But alas - not happening now.
Make a long story short: I'm not willing to pay high end prices for low end or old hardware. But I would have paid "Apple prices" for somewhat current hardware. I might even have paid for two machines, but now I won't.
Owning a small company that uses Apple hardware to produce Software for iOS / mac OS I don't have much of an option. But even as a company I'm not prepared to throw money at Apple.
Looking back at the last two years Apples management has made very bad and very wrong decisions - maybe based on what hardware suppliers (like Intel) were promising was in "their pipeline". But once those promises were failing
Apple's management should have come up with a solution quickly. Instead they have been sitting and waiting and waiting and waiting.
I don't know what they are going to come up with and when. I know that Apple has missed two deals (on my side) and I'm sure there are a lot of others that would have bought a MBP had it been somewhat "current" hardware wise.
I might have even considered updating more notebooks we use in the company but the 2012 and 2013 models are still ok and there's nothing *worth* replacing them with anyway.
I fear the same management will make the same wrong decisions again - meaning they could just wait til 2017 to finally
stop selling those ridiculously old machines at ridiculously high prices.
I'm sure companies like Lenovo, Dell, and so on are glad that Apple's management has made the mistakes it has. Otherwise Apple's notebook sales would have been much better and those of the others even worse.
Just my 2 cents.
I've been actively reading the forums on macrumors and enjoy the various topics regarding the MBPs everyone seems to be waiting for (just like me).
What has happened to the MBP in the last two and a half years is a BIG management error - and not just one.
The MBP should have been updated with a Browadwell chipset early 2015.
It should have been updated with Skylake mid 2016 (asap).
It ought to be updated with Kaby Lake by mid 2017 - and yes, I know this won't happen if Intel won't produce the appropriate chipsets (which they allegedly won't).
I'm still running my early 2011 MPB (non retina). I have added RAM (8GB) and replaced the terribly slow HDD with a SSD. So I wasn't really desperate until the battery died early last year and I looked at Apples lineup - no choices there: pay *full* price for outdated hardware? No.
So I waited and waited. Since there was nochting on the horizon I bought a replacement battery. Not a good choice.
I've never had any luck with the replacement batteries. In the previous MBP (late 2006) I bought an original Apple battery that only lasted about two years before it practically "blew up" (some may remember those batteries
that would grow and grow).
[offtopic]
The current replacement battery (original Apple bought from a reseller) doesn't seem to work correctly either. When it's down to seven percent the MBP just shuts off without warning (doesn't hibernate). SMC/PRAM reset won't cure this. At least I have a couple of hours to get work done before it shuts down.
[/offtopic]
It's a good computer and has been all these years. Now I'd like to replace it. I would have replaced it last year had there been an acceptable deal. I might then even have considered buying the next "model" once it's out and given the previously bought one to my wife who is also in need of a "newer" machine. But alas - not happening now.
Make a long story short: I'm not willing to pay high end prices for low end or old hardware. But I would have paid "Apple prices" for somewhat current hardware. I might even have paid for two machines, but now I won't.
Owning a small company that uses Apple hardware to produce Software for iOS / mac OS I don't have much of an option. But even as a company I'm not prepared to throw money at Apple.
Looking back at the last two years Apples management has made very bad and very wrong decisions - maybe based on what hardware suppliers (like Intel) were promising was in "their pipeline". But once those promises were failing
Apple's management should have come up with a solution quickly. Instead they have been sitting and waiting and waiting and waiting.
I don't know what they are going to come up with and when. I know that Apple has missed two deals (on my side) and I'm sure there are a lot of others that would have bought a MBP had it been somewhat "current" hardware wise.
I might have even considered updating more notebooks we use in the company but the 2012 and 2013 models are still ok and there's nothing *worth* replacing them with anyway.
I fear the same management will make the same wrong decisions again - meaning they could just wait til 2017 to finally
stop selling those ridiculously old machines at ridiculously high prices.
I'm sure companies like Lenovo, Dell, and so on are glad that Apple's management has made the mistakes it has. Otherwise Apple's notebook sales would have been much better and those of the others even worse.
Just my 2 cents.
well, when the SB2, XPS13 and MBP13 have all been released i'll come back and and kindly ask someone to explain the differences in processing speed to me 🙂
knassar
macrumors 6502
Actually you did touch upon an interesting point: the main differentiator between the MBP-bound Skylakes and the XPS13-bound KabyLakes will be GPU, namely Iris Pro graphics versus HD graphics.
If you don't care about graphics performance, you may well find the XPS13 more than satisfactory for your needs 🙂 (although it'll still be a 15W chip vs a - presumably, no one knows - 28W chip in the MBP).
Janichsan
macrumors 68040
And yet, they are making $5 billion revenue even in a weak quarter…
imom
macrumors 6502
Here we go again...
- Macs don't need to sell in the same volume. The margins are much higher per unit.
- iPhone sales are dropping and losing market share
- Mac's share of PC market is actually growing, and there is still huge room for growth in this segment
- Apple still stands to make billions, if not tens of billions, from Mac sales in the near future. Even for a company like Apple, that is not small change.
rezwits
macrumors 6502a
You know this whole when they release crap, is really up in the air because we live in serious dystopian times, where you have companies, like Facebook, who have enough market capital to afford paying 10,000 employees, $100,000 a year, for 40 years straight and never even go out of business.
And if don't think that is sick, take a look at the company we are waiting on: Apple. They don't have do lift one f)(|<!ng finger, for like 100 years, and instead of being like Facebook they actually make Billions per Year. So Apple is going to do wHaTeVeR little sweet happy good time production they are going to do with these macs.
And here is the kicker, they're going to take their sweet time, and make a nice little Jony Ive narrated video of the manufacturing of the product. They love this crap.
But the main point is, these companies are so large they're not going out of business anymore. Truly dystopian times.
You'll take your Windows 10 and your updates and you'll like it, and you will all upgrade to Windows 10. OR
The Mac guys you'll have to wait on your precious hardware that you crave, that you know will t least run macOS.
They don't care anymore, we are past the web boom, and the app boom. It's the Corp Doom Era...
I mean think about this, they are going to give us a MASS PRODUCT ITEM. Item's they deem are ok for consumers to purchase and get general use from. There are no more days where "we", the public, are going to have LATEST AND GREATEST TECH. THEY are going to play with the gear first and then ship later.
It's over now days, we get the lame chips when it comes to HEAVY LIFTING, and SERIOUS PROCESSING, and they're gonna charge us too, all the companies will.
Think about this we should have Mac Pros with 2 CPUs 8 cores each for 16 cores with 16 virtual (32 total) for $3000. SERIOUSLY.
But we are not, we are all getting priced out! Because manufacturing should have gotten cheaper and easier etc.
Because see most of us, we all payed our DAMN DUES to Motorola, Intel, and even Apple, but with 30 years worth of CPUs and machines we are getting nothing.
So why are machines STILL so damn expensive. CONTROL. It's like right when the power of the CPUs and Multiple Core machines, started kicking in they were like WHOOA WHOOA WHOA WHOA WHOA. Ok that's enough giving them the goods we gotta just make these systems STANDARD and AVERAGE, and keep the price around the same.
I mean really come on guys there's a big difference between a computer NOW and 7 years ago, and 7 years ago to 15 years ago was insane! But the last 3 years it's not that big a deal we're getting 5% 10% 15% increases better to better.
The only place we have closest space for is in Video Cards. We get to wait and HOPE we get a better video chip, because they are the only thing that is increasing in speed substantially, that we can/could benefit from directly. But look at the PC side now days?!?! It's ridiculous over there too!
Back in the day (5 years ago) it's like PC cards (Video Cards) for PCs were $100. Mac cards were like $350 $500...
Now they are going so far as to have PC Videos Cards for $500! Now that may make me sound crazy, and not to mention Video cards for $1,000 but PC Video Cards used to be $40, or $110 for like top of the line or 6 months old.
But they're like oh no we cornered the market and for some reason guys will pay $600 for NVIDIA, and then 6 months later pull the NVIDIA, sell it for $300 on eBay and then drop $700 again and put the newer card in and repeat.
I look at that as crazy, we're NOT GETTING SPEED INCREASES, that warrant:
WAITING FOR THE NEXT VIDEO CARD
or
WAITING FOR THE NEXT CPU increased MAC.
This waiting is INSANE. Get something and just do something.
But that's the Dystopian Nightmare.
The companies LOVE people WAITING DOING NOTHING, browsing the internet, chatting socializing, bitching making rumors, waiting, and then MAD DASH SCRAMBLE PURCHASE, and then what?
I want the NEXT NEW THING or NEW ONE!
Now I know most of you on here aren't going to be that bad as to want a newer mac right after, because I know you guys have some serious work and things you want to do with our MACS, and we are all going to dig in and work/hibernate for the next 3 years until the next one.
But damn it's like those two old fashioned saying, that go:
They gotcha by the balls!
and
That's how they get ya...
We're all locked in. Does it suck? It's a Dystopian Nightmare...
And if don't think that is sick, take a look at the company we are waiting on: Apple. They don't have do lift one f)(|<!ng finger, for like 100 years, and instead of being like Facebook they actually make Billions per Year. So Apple is going to do wHaTeVeR little sweet happy good time production they are going to do with these macs.
And here is the kicker, they're going to take their sweet time, and make a nice little Jony Ive narrated video of the manufacturing of the product. They love this crap.
But the main point is, these companies are so large they're not going out of business anymore. Truly dystopian times.
You'll take your Windows 10 and your updates and you'll like it, and you will all upgrade to Windows 10. OR
The Mac guys you'll have to wait on your precious hardware that you crave, that you know will t least run macOS.
They don't care anymore, we are past the web boom, and the app boom. It's the Corp Doom Era...
I mean think about this, they are going to give us a MASS PRODUCT ITEM. Item's they deem are ok for consumers to purchase and get general use from. There are no more days where "we", the public, are going to have LATEST AND GREATEST TECH. THEY are going to play with the gear first and then ship later.
It's over now days, we get the lame chips when it comes to HEAVY LIFTING, and SERIOUS PROCESSING, and they're gonna charge us too, all the companies will.
Think about this we should have Mac Pros with 2 CPUs 8 cores each for 16 cores with 16 virtual (32 total) for $3000. SERIOUSLY.
But we are not, we are all getting priced out! Because manufacturing should have gotten cheaper and easier etc.
Because see most of us, we all payed our DAMN DUES to Motorola, Intel, and even Apple, but with 30 years worth of CPUs and machines we are getting nothing.
So why are machines STILL so damn expensive. CONTROL. It's like right when the power of the CPUs and Multiple Core machines, started kicking in they were like WHOOA WHOOA WHOA WHOA WHOA. Ok that's enough giving them the goods we gotta just make these systems STANDARD and AVERAGE, and keep the price around the same.
I mean really come on guys there's a big difference between a computer NOW and 7 years ago, and 7 years ago to 15 years ago was insane! But the last 3 years it's not that big a deal we're getting 5% 10% 15% increases better to better.
The only place we have closest space for is in Video Cards. We get to wait and HOPE we get a better video chip, because they are the only thing that is increasing in speed substantially, that we can/could benefit from directly. But look at the PC side now days?!?! It's ridiculous over there too!
Back in the day (5 years ago) it's like PC cards (Video Cards) for PCs were $100. Mac cards were like $350 $500...
Now they are going so far as to have PC Videos Cards for $500! Now that may make me sound crazy, and not to mention Video cards for $1,000 but PC Video Cards used to be $40, or $110 for like top of the line or 6 months old.
But they're like oh no we cornered the market and for some reason guys will pay $600 for NVIDIA, and then 6 months later pull the NVIDIA, sell it for $300 on eBay and then drop $700 again and put the newer card in and repeat.
I look at that as crazy, we're NOT GETTING SPEED INCREASES, that warrant:
WAITING FOR THE NEXT VIDEO CARD
or
WAITING FOR THE NEXT CPU increased MAC.
This waiting is INSANE. Get something and just do something.
But that's the Dystopian Nightmare.
The companies LOVE people WAITING DOING NOTHING, browsing the internet, chatting socializing, bitching making rumors, waiting, and then MAD DASH SCRAMBLE PURCHASE, and then what?
I want the NEXT NEW THING or NEW ONE!
Now I know most of you on here aren't going to be that bad as to want a newer mac right after, because I know you guys have some serious work and things you want to do with our MACS, and we are all going to dig in and work/hibernate for the next 3 years until the next one.
But damn it's like those two old fashioned saying, that go:
They gotcha by the balls!
and
That's how they get ya...
We're all locked in. Does it suck? It's a Dystopian Nightmare...
You just described where I'm at exactly.
I also have a 2011 MBP non-retina.
I also have upgraded the RAM to 8 GB.
I also have replaced the HDD with a SSD.
I also tried a replacement battery.
I also had it shutting down without saving my work at just under 10% charge with the new battery.
I also was not willing to pay for the current overpriced lineup when I went looking to buy a new MBP just under a year ago.
Are we twins? It's almost scary how you described even the RAM upgrade to exactly what I upgraded to.
If Apple put even half as much effort to their Mac line as they do with their iPhone line, we'd truly have magical computers by now!
ihatetoregister
Suspended
I just realized that the funny thing is phones get hardware upgrades all the time while in all honesty we don't really need them - don't know about you, but I stopped being amazed 3/4 years ago after high DPI screens).
On the other hand, Macs, which are work machines ( if you're a hipster using a Mac "just because", frankly you're a tool ) , are always underpowered and overpriced. The upgrade road these last years has been particularly disastrous.
Funny that I'm stuck with them, exactly like my colleagues warned me back in the days.
On the other hand, Macs, which are work machines ( if you're a hipster using a Mac "just because", frankly you're a tool ) , are always underpowered and overpriced. The upgrade road these last years has been particularly disastrous.
Funny that I'm stuck with them, exactly like my colleagues warned me back in the days.
knassar
macrumors 6502
Judging by the money people are throwing at Apple for the iPhone... it would be downright stupid of them not to invest more into the iPhone (as sad as it makes me to say it)
You can actually buy the Kaby Lake XPS 13" with 16 GB RAM and 1TB PCIe SSD. If you want compare .. it should be compared to the Macbook Pro 13" but the XPS is far more ... thunderbolt 3, touch screen, HDMI 2.0 over thunderbolt 3 (4k 60Hz -- connected to UHD TV's), Displayport 1.2 over thunderbolt 3 ..
erich.j.k
macrumors regular
The RAM upgrade was stupidity on my side though. I had checked on Apple's support pages, where it said the MBP only supports 8GB. In the meantime I read somewhere else it accepts 16GB - not going to invest any more...
EDIT: Forgot to mention that this is something I'll miss in the next MBP - no upgrades possible :-( Which makes me wonder if the "new" MBP will also last five years.
dav1dd
macrumors regular
Wow - this thread is now up to 24600 odd posts. I remember when it started - when I got my 15" MBPr back in late 2013. This is a Haswell machine and Apple has never moved on from Haswell on the 15". That blows my mind.
How f'ing useless is Apple?
How f'ing useless is Apple?
dumastudetto
macrumors 603
Dalrymple all but confirmed the new MacBook Pros are coming in October on the latest Talk Show podcast with Gruber. The only doubt was whether Apple would host an event, or just invite the media in for private briefings that could then be used to publicise the new products by way of news coverage on the day they update the online store.
knassar
macrumors 6502
Did you even read my post? I phrased it specifically so that you couldn't respond with this nonsense. Here, let me highlight the relevant part for you:
I'm well aware of the shortcomings of the current MBP, thanks. And you can keep your touch screen.
dumastudetto
macrumors 603
I just run a Geekbench 4 on a Skylake Dell XPS 9550 in our office against a Late 2013 MacBook Pro. Both have 16GB RAM. The Dell has a Core i7 6700HQ and the MacBook Pro has a Core i7 4850HQ.
There's very little difference in CPU performance according to Geekbench. Single-core scores about 160 points higher on the Dell. Multi-core Score was about 460 points lower than the Mac. Maybe some of this is the Windows 10 performance penalty? Otherwise the improvements over a Late 2013 MacBook Pro and a 2016 Dell look absolutely tiny.
Graphics performance is anywhere between 2x and 3x better in the Dell depending on whether you're measuring the Iris Pro (Mac), GT 750M (Mac) or HD graphics 530 (Dell), GTX 960M (Dell).
So if you're doing graphics intensive stuff there's a lot of room for improvement. But for everyone else just waiting on Skylake, I don't think the CPU is going to be a huge step up in terms of performance over what we have now.
There's very little difference in CPU performance according to Geekbench. Single-core scores about 160 points higher on the Dell. Multi-core Score was about 460 points lower than the Mac. Maybe some of this is the Windows 10 performance penalty? Otherwise the improvements over a Late 2013 MacBook Pro and a 2016 Dell look absolutely tiny.
Graphics performance is anywhere between 2x and 3x better in the Dell depending on whether you're measuring the Iris Pro (Mac), GT 750M (Mac) or HD graphics 530 (Dell), GTX 960M (Dell).
So if you're doing graphics intensive stuff there's a lot of room for improvement. But for everyone else just waiting on Skylake, I don't think the CPU is going to be a huge step up in terms of performance over what we have now.
I have a feeling we're going to get an invite this week. And I could be completely wrong.
I'm more expecting an invite 2/3 weeks from now. Apple doesn't want to take the attention away from the new iPhone i think.
meboy
macrumors 6502
XPS 13 with Kaby Lake is already available in Japan and Germany too I believe.
I'm Very interested in the Surfacebook 2.
Can't stand 16:9 on a small screen notebook. It's trackpad is pretty nice too. I bet it could be made even better with some software tweaks.
Gets really expensive fast though if you start upping ram and storage.
Maybe Samsung will do another 16:10 OLED that isn't a core m this time.
A Notebook 10 which uses nvme ssd and higher res screen would be very nice too and could be on the way any time now.
dtsisdead
macrumors regular
Been a long while between posts (and checking back here) for me... now that the iPhone event is over, and we are but 2 days out from the release of Sierra, I feel like there should be something new if Apple are going to release new MacBook Pros this year... Yet nothing is coming up. Diddly. Squat. This does not fill me with hope. The pessimist inside me is saying that it may be 2017 before there are any updates...
infinitejest
macrumors 6502a
The iPhone 7 won't sell...wait, what? You obviously must have missed basically everything MacRumors has written about the iPhone 7 during the last few days.
meboy
macrumors 6502
Like three generations old design, removing useful ports for no good reason and barely even catching up to the competition?
Seems about the same to me.
[doublepost=1474287156][/doublepost]
It's actually almost entirely due to a stock problem. Shortages of the dual camera.
Investors are going to get a nasty surprise. Especially with Apple not giving launch numbers. (Which they said themselves was due to stock issues. But everyone ignored that...)
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