What's the % of their customer base that would benefit from this feature? How will you go and explain to the average joe that he needs Kaby Lake and to buy a whole new laptop to play 4K content? Hmmmm.
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Waiting for the 2017 MBP (Kaby Lake / Cannonlake / Coffee Lake??)
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What's the % of their customer base that would benefit from this feature? How will you go and explain to the average joe that he needs Kaby Lake and to buy a whole new laptop to play 4K content? Hmmmm.
wouldn't 4k content on a laptop be kind of a waste, i.e., tiny display, also would it be kind of a monster to download a 4k movie?
It doesn't stop Apple from spec-bumping current Macbooks in March. They've done it before.
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Well, you don't download from Netflix, you stream
Netflix uses HEVC compression, I think a typical 90 min movies is about 5GB.
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A whole bunch of average joes bought new 4K TVs, so why not laptops?
It doesn't stop Apple from spec-bumping current Macbooks in March. They've done it before.
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Well, you don't download from Netflix, you stream
Netflix uses HEVC compression, I think a typical 90 min movies is about 5GB.
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A whole bunch of average joes bought new 4K TVs, so why not laptops?
Average joe doesn't buy a $3000 laptop.
Well, you don't download from Netflix, you stream
Well, downloading and streaming are actually the same thing, just with different looking user-interface.
Perhaps you may have noticed the little buffering line in the youtube player? Yeah that's just your computer downloading the file. It gets deleted later. They don't show it in Netflix, but rest asssured, your computer is indeed downloading the file.
Yes, I know. But as I said, it's no more than 5GB in file size per movie. With today's broadband speeds, that's peanuts.
Characteristics of the TV market and the Laptop market are very different. Buyers are different and so are their motivations. Companies recognise this and that is why 4K TVs and 4K laptops are sold "differently".
They should get hammered by the environmental lobby for that - expecting people to replace perfectly capable laptops due to an artificial restriction.
What's worse, all Netflix 4K content is available on torrent sites, their DRM tech is dead on arrival.
I had one of the new MBPs on order, but cancelled today. Just realized if I'm spending THAT much money on something I really don't need, then I better be excited about it, and I wasn't excited about this.
Bleh.
Bleh.
Me exactly. I have a BTO 15-inch on pick-up order, and it's still processing. Very tempting to cancel my order. My current 13-inch mid-2012 MBP is working just fine except the battery (66% health with 700+ cycles) but I barely take it out of the house anymore.
Spending nearly $3000 on a machine I may never get the most out of is haunting me actually. Not to mention this will not be my daily device cuz I need to carry my 15-inch 5lb work computer with me anyway.
I think my other option is to wait for the refresh early next year and get a 13-inch. Hopefully they will resolve the battery problem by then and the price will drop like they did in 2013 with rMBP. And I can even buy an iMac with the rest of the money.
That's just laziness on their part and they'll probably be addressing it. Discrete GPUs are fully capable of decoding 10 bit HEVC.
Early next year is probably WWDC. And an update then is by no means a certainty.
I just can't see new MBPs happening until 3Q 2017 (at the earliest) just because many people want a refresh doesn't mean it will happen. I'm not saying it can't or won't happen but the way Apple is moving where they release products less often I would guess there will be no laptops at WWDC or around then unless Apple releases a Kaby Lake Retina MacBook. 2017 will likely see new iMac and iPads before we see another iteration of MacBook Pro. Remember Apple is hugely reliant on Intel for planning their releases until Apple decides to produce their own chips (might happen in the medium term).
I just ordered a 2015 rMBP as really it is the machine I want. I decided Dongle life and concern about battery duration were two factors which will make me wait until USB-C is ubiquitous and Apple can get all day (10+ hours) on its new MBP as I'm not paying their hugely increased prices for 5-7 hour battery life with less useful ports. I'll let early adopters fight the battle for me.
Apple has moved away from announcing hardware at their developer's conference the past few years, couple that with the recent roll out of the MBPs, I doubt they'll want to replace this model 7 months after shipping them
I agree with the above posts; Q3 2017 is the most likely time for a first revision.
Not sure they won't use WWDC for future hardware updates though; it would have been a good opportunity to announce the touchbar, since it requires developer support. However I think it just wasn't ready this time around.
Not sure they won't use WWDC for future hardware updates though; it would have been a good opportunity to announce the touchbar, since it requires developer support. However I think it just wasn't ready this time around.
Sorry to say it, but Apple aren't interested in the pro customer any more. They make far more money from basic consumers who buy their for-the-masses products in droves. Don't expect to see Apple pushing any boundaries to satisfy our small slice of the customer base, ever again.
Nope, that I think is quite evident. The consumer market offers more profitability.
We used to live in a world where we had the consumer model (MacBook) and the prosumer model (Pro).
That has all changed.. frankly limiting this machine to 16GB is just such an insane oversight....
I don't care who you are, if I spend 3k+ on a machine I certainly want to use it for the next 4-5 years...
16GB for pro users just isn't going to cut it then... frankly in some instances as a dev. I'm already close to pushing it now.
Its not an oversight, they're marketing the MBP towards consumers and the clear majority of them don't need more then 16GB. The consumer demographic is a lot bigger then the what was historically Apple's core customer base, the creative professional, and they're building a machine based on that larger group. Initial reports seem to indicate apple is selling these very well.
There's the technical reasons why they didn't go beyond 16gb, i.e., lack of low powered ram/chipsets would have adversely affected battery life. While there may have been work arounds, why add that in, when their focus is on the consumer?
Finally my mini rant about "Pros" We've been hearing this quite a lot but really what is it? People throw this word around left and right without really defining it. I consider myself a prof because I use my computer for work, but clearly some people won't because I don't work in the creative job sector.
People say the MBP is no longer a pro machine because it lacks some feature and that's just not true. It may not be a good fit for a given usage, but that doesn't mean its not good for all professionals, i.e., people who work and use a laptop
Sure - so, let me elaborate.
A very very large sector of creative professionals from a visual standpoint and video editing standpoint work with MacOS. The Mac Pro is all but dead with no indication of it coming back. It's been years. The MacbookPro is the next viable option.
If you work with high fidelity images or 4K video files and you're running a pretty standard multi-tasking workflow in a professional environment you're probably using a good amount of system RAM. Let's say 10-12GB possibly. Cool - but in 2-3 years, it won't be so cool, it'll be an issue. For some users, it already is.
For me specifically, I'm a software engineer. A large community of software engineers work on MacOS, we prefer a Unix based OS and Mac is traditionally a viable solid option.
Removing the function keys on the 15" (or, not even letting it be an option, like it is for the 13", which, is a dual core and certainly not viable) and moreover running a limit of 16gb without user upgradability (this wasn't always the case) severely limits the lifespan for developers. No big deal, right? Except.. many of the awesome tools you use today, and probably many of the programs you use are developed by people like me.
Apple has traditionally been a beacon for this community.
As far as technical reason for limiting ram and running DDR3? That's not totally true. Yes - it would have impacted the performance of the battery, but we have windows machines (specifially, XPS15) that does support 32 and frankly the battery life change is negligible.
A Pro laptop is meant for power use. If your professional setting is Office Suite (with the exception of heavy excel use with intricate macros) you are a professional who uses a laptop - you don't quite need a pro-grade laptop.
It is ABSOLUTELY an oversight because - by marketing the 'Pro' laptop at standard consumers (previously, years ago, just the macbook line would have done this) they've completely nudged out the creative and engineering professionals who are (especially corporate-wise) some of their larger customers.
Frankly, those people don't have a tangible option on MacOS now. That's pretty unfortunate. I think you're misinformed or ignorant if you really believe what you typed out.
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TL;DR
Pro Laptops are meant to offer tools for advanced computing professionals - that's always been their draw. The average US working Professional needs a basic computer for basic office tasks and email. They are not (previously) a candidate for a $4,000 dollar laptop.
Creative and technical professionals who require heavy spec machines have been left out in the cold because frankly, this machine is not offering any heavy specs.
If apple upgrades the next interation to include up to 32GB RAM.. I'm sure my company will continue to provide us with Macs. If not, like most companies, we'll end up with weaker build quality, and bloatware on a Lenovo machine.. but hey, at least it'll be able to provide the specs for us.
What does that mean for apple users? Less dev support, less solid applications, and more support for windows/android.
GG apple... GG
Its not an oversight though. Apple made a strategic decision to design a laptop that meets the needs of their largest customer demographic. Given the reported high pre-orders, it seems they astutely read the demand. An oversight is something that was missed in designing the computer and that's absolutely not the case. Schiller already stated they made the decision because of the current state of the technology and its impact on battery life.
16 years ago, Apple's largest customer base was the creative professional to be sure, but that's not the case in 2016. Apple is selling these to the consumer. Just because it has the word "pro" in the title means nothing, its a pure marketing construct. They needed to differentiate between the old white MacBook and their typical more powerful laptop.
I will also go out on a limb and state that not every creative professional or developer requires 32GB of ram, so that means even more people can and will buy the current machine.
One one level, I'm not disagreeing with your complaints, because I need those f-keys so I understand that the current MBP is not a good fit for your needs. No argument but I think its a stretch to say that its not a professional machine because I'm pretty sure there are people using it for work.
Just because the machine sells well doesn't mean the specifications of that machine aren't an oversight. Because you're not in the industry I understand your ignorance, but, from an Apple Ecosystem standpoint, this will have long term effects if they continue to put the community that pushes the applications and software on their platform to the side.
Let me put it this way. There are a few facts we know for certain.
1. Apple is declining from a net profitability standpoint. This is fact.
2. The #1 key differentiating factor between iOS and Android for Mobile is the software. Apps are generally better on iOS.
3. If less developers are working on Unix based machines (and, specifically MacOS) we will begin to slowly see a downward trend in #2.
4. Apple could have sold even MORE machines if they created an option that supported the community that drives the number one factor for iOS success.
5. As clearly defined by their attention to their PCs, their main business driver is NOT the sale of these machines. They stand the benefit the most by getting the machines into the hands of the people who drive the applications and software on their surrounding platforms.
6. Mark my words - the next revision will include 32GB RAM option and I can assure you it won't see a bump in battery life - In fact, I bet it sees a slight decrease (in review benchmarks - marketing will twist it to work).
Why? Because they know they made a mistake.
Apple needs to drive profitability and maintain it's singular edge. From a phone perspective.. they no longer have aesthetics and hardware on their side.. it's strictly a software game now differentiating between these two platforms.
If google continues to push their software AND continues to create increasingly better hardware, it's going to hurt apples cash cow.
For me, the 'Pro' tag is an indication of the power the user needs from the laptop, be it processor, memory requirements, data speeds etc. Essentially, requirements a 'consumer focused' staple run of the mill laptop will not handle. Maybe 'high end user' should be substituted with 'pro'. But in reference to the use of 'Pro' on this forum and on a MacBook Pro tread, I think peoples use of the tag is more justified then it would be on a Dell forum.
Apple not only differentiate their higher end computers with 'Pro' but also market these machines by introducing 'Professionals' in their field to demo its capabilities. All of whom (I think) require a good chunk of power. Hence the assumption of 'Pro' needs.
A professional journalist/ blogger/ writer, business man using excel etc can of course use a MacBook Pro and of course call themselves a professional if they make money from it (or what ever you think constitutes being a professional) But could they do the same work on an Air/ MacBook or any pc equivalent?
A Pro for me is simply someone who has higher requirements from these machines. Not someone who is any more or less of a Professional.
On the same note, I'm peeved at being tagged as needing a 'gaming laptop' as a VFX professional.
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