Dude, they're called facts. If you just make stuff up people will call you out on it.
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Waiting for the 2017 MBP (Kaby Lake / Cannonlake / Coffee Lake??)
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Dude, they're called facts. If you just make stuff up people will call you out on it.
Chiming in here after awhile, this time after reading the bitc…, er, griping about costs over time. I don't profess to know every little detail about Apple's cost determinations. I do cost out future expenditures for my clients, a little more than 25 years of this forecasting under my belt. A few nits to pick…
Inflation has pretty much nothing to do with forecasting prices or resolving past prices. That linked-to BLS database describes urban buyers, not including fuel costs (and food, which isn't relevant here). I use BLS data every day. That urban database provides no real relationship specific to the computer/electronics industry, doesn't reflect tariffs or the price of fuel, Apple's cost for floating bonds to buyout shareholders, the cost of building dozens of Apple Stores and hiring thousands of employees around the world (plus future benefits), creating and maintaining infrastructure (the "gimme, gimme now" factor as I tend to put it to my clients), paying off patent trolls (the iPhone didn't exist in 2006…) - this is just off the top of my head…
Apple used to charge for OS X updates, and yet another one was pushed out at no cost just today. Yet another "gimme" bit we now take for granted…
I run a SMB, with business that crosses international lines, but a 50-employee company, that's all. But, "facts" about finances/costs mean nothing relative to the final price to the client/consumer, really… The cited database doesn't address costs from overseas operations or expected legal costs of doing business or failed relationships. I'd just offer that using a cost relationship index doesn't really address what happens in our real world…
Inflation has pretty much nothing to do with forecasting prices or resolving past prices. That linked-to BLS database describes urban buyers, not including fuel costs (and food, which isn't relevant here). I use BLS data every day. That urban database provides no real relationship specific to the computer/electronics industry, doesn't reflect tariffs or the price of fuel, Apple's cost for floating bonds to buyout shareholders, the cost of building dozens of Apple Stores and hiring thousands of employees around the world (plus future benefits), creating and maintaining infrastructure (the "gimme, gimme now" factor as I tend to put it to my clients), paying off patent trolls (the iPhone didn't exist in 2006…) - this is just off the top of my head…
Apple used to charge for OS X updates, and yet another one was pushed out at no cost just today. Yet another "gimme" bit we now take for granted…
I run a SMB, with business that crosses international lines, but a 50-employee company, that's all. But, "facts" about finances/costs mean nothing relative to the final price to the client/consumer, really… The cited database doesn't address costs from overseas operations or expected legal costs of doing business or failed relationships. I'd just offer that using a cost relationship index doesn't really address what happens in our real world…
Love my MBPs...but I loved my old Dell laptops, too (I know, sacrilege). My old Dell laptops had components I could mod...still got a circa 2001 laptop that runs Windows 7 (lol). I don't think it has anything to do with more or less imagination to enjoy one or the other.
Yes, true, but the argument is whether consumers paid more for MBPs in 2006 or 2016, so most of that is completely irrelevant in a consumer's mind. One of the major arguments with inflation is fuel costs, but the price of oil is significantly less right now than in 2006. I don't think anyone could argue 2006 MBPs were "much more expensive than the models we have today" with the top of the line model being $3,949 today.
I'll agree with your fairly simplistic point of view, being a consumer. The business owner side of me doesn't agree with that "dumbed-down" perspective (and that's not a slant, nor am I trying to angle in anything here as I feel it's a far more complicated situation that I can back up in my industry), and oil costs are indeed a factor - Apple flies product here from Asia, and the price of jet fuel doesn't follow the same trends as the Brent Crude market price - the cost of insurance, salaries for the pilots/crews, and maintenance of those planes has gone up, and I read my bills of lading. Never mind the destruction of one of the largest flash chip manufacturers last year contributing to the higher price of memory and most of the makers moving over to DDR4 for smartphones…
Hey, you've got your points and I've got mine. I deal with the "it should be cheaper" thing every time a client walks in with an invoice - I'm prepared for that argument from the contractors I manage too. I expect future variants of these products to go down in time as the industry insiders have been posing recently, and I'm waiting a few months or so. Cheers.
Haha, slant taken. You're clearly too well-informed and brilliant to understand the simple-minded peasant consumers.
You'd be a perfect fit at Apple
Hmmm. Like I wrote, I own and run a business. You don't have to deal with the many, many hands in the till. I wrote that I am not slanting my perspective, bummed that you're taking it that way. I'm not well-informed or brilliant - I have 53 mouths to feed every week. If you take offense to that, so be it. I respected your position, not so much now. No "haha" about it, you just don't get it IMHO. I'll be ignoring you from here on…Haha, slant taken. You're clearly too well-informed and brilliant to understand the simple-minded peasant consumers.
You'd be a perfect fit at Apple
We need more options!
Given the differences in CPU gens are minimal in terms of speed, I'm not too bothered by that. But if I am going to make the big investment, I would like 32GB of RAM, and that can only happen with the next processor generation. Further, I think the second generation of any major design change tends to sort out many of the bugs and grievances of the premier model, and I'm a little hesitant of AMD cards (not because they are bad, but because my own recent experience with one was bad.)
Given the differences in CPU gens are minimal in terms of speed, I'm not too bothered by that. But if I am going to make the big investment, I would like 32GB of RAM, and that can only happen with the next processor generation. Further, I think the second generation of any major design change tends to sort out many of the bugs and grievances of the premier model, and I'm a little hesitant of AMD cards (not because they are bad, but because my own recent experience with one was bad.)
That depends how long the plumber takes to unclog Tim's pipeline...
I believe it's:
rMB April 2017
rMBP apparently end of 2017
Mac Mini and Pro: approximately never
iMac: as soon as Jony manages to make it thinner
Hi guys, I'm back because macOS Sierra blew out my 2011/17 dGPU (finally I guess). It couldn't take anymore, still works but it's awkward. But now I got my 2015/15 that I bought about 4 months ago and that thing is CRUSHING.
I am hoping to get a rMBP 2017/15 but I don't see any iGPU only models other than the rMBP 2016/13 inch... I can't do 13 inch...
I know I know I went all crazy about how the dGPU switching was going to be an issue in the other "Waiting for SkyLake rMBP thread" and got blasted for it, but a... yeah, so anyway.
Anybody got any thoughts on if they will be able to make a "capable" iGPU only 15 inch model by the end of the year?
That's what I am really looking for. Not wanting to get all into the dGPU MALARKEY, if you know what I mean.
But man yeah a good iGPU only 2017/15 w/TouchBar would be pretty great!
Laters...
I am hoping to get a rMBP 2017/15 but I don't see any iGPU only models other than the rMBP 2016/13 inch... I can't do 13 inch...
I know I know I went all crazy about how the dGPU switching was going to be an issue in the other "Waiting for SkyLake rMBP thread" and got blasted for it, but a... yeah, so anyway.
Anybody got any thoughts on if they will be able to make a "capable" iGPU only 15 inch model by the end of the year?
That's what I am really looking for. Not wanting to get all into the dGPU MALARKEY, if you know what I mean.
But man yeah a good iGPU only 2017/15 w/TouchBar would be pretty great!
Laters...
Apple still offers the 2015 rMBP 15" with iGPU only. I have the 2.5 GHz model which I will not update to Sierra. I will stay as long as possible with El Capitan and everything works very well for me. I use Office 2016, Matlab, Lightroom 6 and some X-Code. For work I use Windows 10 bootcamp under a Parallels VM with Office 2016, Matlab and Visual Studio.
The best thing is this: I can still use my old mag-save power supplies the I have distributed everywhere where I use the Notebook. I can connect the beamers at work directly to the HDMI port. I can read my camera's SD card directly in the Notebook. I can connect my 4k display at home directly to the mini display port. I can use all my external storage directly with the USB 3.0 ports.
If Apple doesn't change their strategy, my next Notebook will be a Windows only version. I have tested the Windows only version with an ASUS Zenbook 15" last year. Currently I still prefer the Macbook with OS X where I can swipe Windows away with 3 fingers when it wants to do updates etc.
You've been following the Waiting for Skylake thread so you probably know this already. Kaby Lake H chips will not have a GT4e option so you shouldn't expect a good iGPU in 2017 for the 15" models.
I personally don't see any issues with GPU switching as I've had the 15" Skylake for a while now without any problems and the new dGPU have a TDP of 35W which is significantly less than the older models so the MBP stays (relatively) cool and quite even when gaming. The dGPU stays off during normal tasks.
Right, figured I'd throw my tuppence in and I'll get this one we all know far to well out of the way first. Oh my god they're expensive Though if you shop around you can find them with savings of 10% or more, so long as you're not wanting to make any upgrades.
That out of the way, so is everything else getting that way and it's not just inflation or exchange rates. When it comes to the MacBook, it's also the years of designing and developing a new machine, with new technologies and new software to tie it all together. Paying hundreds, nay thousands, of people's salaries, component suppliers, controlling a supply chain (including shipping and delivering all over the world) and so on. None of which comes cheap. I myself went through the initial, jeesus they've gone too far this time, it's expensive even for a Mac stage. But I know better than that, I've run enough businesses now to know how the costs pile up and I'd have nightmares if I had to deal with that on a scale like Apple's
So now that I've contemplated it, considered my options, looked at and tried the competition. I'm not so shocked anymore. We're getting what is arguably the best MacBook ever created and there's a decent amount there for our money.
Yeah, I know, but there's no SD slot/HDMI/USB-A, we need adapters and new cables and this and that and the next thing. So what, no big deal they aren't expensive or really all that inconvenient. This is a forward looking system, designed to last us for the next 4/5/6 years during which time most of those old things will have probably died out and been replaced. USB-C is the ideal future connection and it won't be long before the rest of the industry catches up and all of our new accessories are fitted with USB-C/Thunderbolt 3.
I myself have precisely zero USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 pieces of hardware, aside from a charger and accompanying cable for my iPad Pro. I do have lots of USB-A devices, I use HDMI and Thunderbolt 2 and lots of SD cards. Do I care? Nope, maybe I'm in the minority but I'll take a little bit of minor inconvenience for the sake of getting by for a little while until more modern replacements come along, and they're almost here now. I mean, we complain when Apple don't change enough and we complain if they change too much? We can't have it both ways can we, I'll take the future. Remember when we were all stunned that they had the gall to remove the DVD drive? Does anyone still care about that?
Now that I've weighed my options, and this is just my own personal perspective of course, I've come to realise that the new MacBook Pro is actually a pretty stunning piece of hardware. I've even been simulating the Touch Bar on my iPad, hooked up to my iMac to see if I was right in thinking it's a useless stop-gap gimmick.
I was wrong, I'm actually finding it to be something that's worth its inclusion. I think if developers take it under their wings it could have a really bright future.
The MacBook is a beautifully designed and crafted (as usual) piece of tech. It's plenty powerful enough for *my* needs. Of course it also includes the typical benefits of being an Apple customer. Namely industry leading customer support and value added features such as free OS updates, various useful bundled apps and the seamless operation with the rest of my Apple devices. To name just a couple of things.
Sure I'd have liked more memory, I'm used to having more. That's not to say though that I can't cope perfectly easily with the 16GB the MacBook has.
So when all's said and done, I'm past the initial shock factor and come next week I'll be throwing several grand in Apple's direction for a maxed out (save for the 2TB SSD I'm not that crazy) 15 inch slab of shiny new toy.
Until Apple decides to take the MacBook in a whole new direction, this is the best we're getting for now and that's fine with me. It's the best mobile Mac they've ever made and that's enough to keep me happy for a couple of years.
Ahhhhhhh, that's better, I've not had a good old ramble on for days now. All better, I can go back to work now/looking at pictures of my next new toy
Oh my god they're expensive Though if you shop around you can find them with savings of 10% or more, so long as you're not wanting to make any upgrades. That out of the way, so is everything else getting that way and it's not just inflation or exchange rates. When it comes to the MacBook, it's also the years of designing and developing a new machine, with new technologies and new software to tie it all together. Paying hundreds, nay thousands, of people's salaries, component suppliers, controlling a supply chain (including shipping and delivering all over the world) and so on. None of which comes cheap. I myself went through the initial, jeesus they've gone too far this time, it's expensive even for a Mac stage. But I know better than that, I've run enough businesses now to know how the costs pile up and I'd have nightmares if I had to deal with that on a scale like Apple's
So now that I've contemplated it, considered my options, looked at and tried the competition. I'm not so shocked anymore. We're getting what is arguably the best MacBook ever created and there's a decent amount there for our money.
Yeah, I know, but there's no SD slot/HDMI/USB-A, we need adapters and new cables and this and that and the next thing. So what, no big deal they aren't expensive or really all that inconvenient. This is a forward looking system, designed to last us for the next 4/5/6 years during which time most of those old things will have probably died out and been replaced. USB-C is the ideal future connection and it won't be long before the rest of the industry catches up and all of our new accessories are fitted with USB-C/Thunderbolt 3.
I myself have precisely zero USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 pieces of hardware, aside from a charger and accompanying cable for my iPad Pro. I do have lots of USB-A devices, I use HDMI and Thunderbolt 2 and lots of SD cards. Do I care? Nope, maybe I'm in the minority but I'll take a little bit of minor inconvenience for the sake of getting by for a little while until more modern replacements come along, and they're almost here now. I mean, we complain when Apple don't change enough and we complain if they change too much? We can't have it both ways can we, I'll take the future. Remember when we were all stunned that they had the gall to remove the DVD drive? Does anyone still care about that?
Now that I've weighed my options, and this is just my own personal perspective of course, I've come to realise that the new MacBook Pro is actually a pretty stunning piece of hardware. I've even been simulating the Touch Bar on my iPad, hooked up to my iMac to see if I was right in thinking it's a useless stop-gap gimmick.
I was wrong, I'm actually finding it to be something that's worth its inclusion. I think if developers take it under their wings it could have a really bright future.
The MacBook is a beautifully designed and crafted (as usual) piece of tech. It's plenty powerful enough for *my* needs. Of course it also includes the typical benefits of being an Apple customer. Namely industry leading customer support and value added features such as free OS updates, various useful bundled apps and the seamless operation with the rest of my Apple devices. To name just a couple of things.
Sure I'd have liked more memory, I'm used to having more. That's not to say though that I can't cope perfectly easily with the 16GB the MacBook has.
So when all's said and done, I'm past the initial shock factor and come next week I'll be throwing several grand in Apple's direction for a maxed out (save for the 2TB SSD I'm not that crazy
) 15 inch slab of shiny new toy.Until Apple decides to take the MacBook in a whole new direction, this is the best we're getting for now and that's fine with me. It's the best mobile Mac they've ever made and that's enough to keep me happy for a couple of years.
Ahhhhhhh, that's better, I've not had a good old ramble on for days now. All better, I can go back to work now/looking at pictures of my next new toy
I'm using Sierra on my early 2011 17" 8 GB with no dGPU issues, though I haven't done much to challenge it. How much RAM do you have? Of course, the dGPU may be failing just due to age. (If it runs hot, open the back up and blow the lint and dust out.)
Yeah, I think I am just going to buy a 2nd 2015/15/256/16/iGPUonly, because I use the SD card reader every day for my sunglasses, with 2 hour 720p security video coming in @ 16 GB (I know I can get a dongle), but this is the MAIN PART, I want them to last 10 years, so I will change out the SSD blade inside, and get plenty of life with like 512 GB. I am not all into this 3 year laptop life get a new one, I re-purpose, and tuck them in places around the house, HAHA! Like if I get a 2nd one, it will replace the 17" in the projector room...unless they get a really sick rMBP 2017/15.
Honestly I am debating a somewhat interface reconciliation decision. It goes like this (it's kinda funny):
If Apple releases a Mac Pro 2017 (with Type-C, which of course they would do), then I am going to bump my interfaces to Type-C, and also get the MacBook Pro 2017, with Type-C external bus powered 256GB backup drives.
If they DON'T announce a Mac Pro 2017, then I am going to get a 2013 Mac Pro, and a 2nd 2015/15 rMBP and stick with Thunderbolt-2 and get two external bus powered 256GB TB2 drives.
So it's kinda all hinging on (new) Mac Pro 2017 coming out or not...(SUCKS!)
It's entirely possible I'm getting the wrong end of the stick, I've not slept in a really long time.
But if your issue is that Apple don't offer what are going to become outdated ports (USB-A) HDMI or a 15" with just an iGPU. Then I honestly don't think Apple needs to change their strategy. Though I am definitely with you on the SD slot, no reason they couldn't have included that but for me personally it's not a big deal. I use more than SD so I inevitably end up using a hub anyway.
They can't and shouldn't need to support legacy (or soon to be legacy) interfaces. Should they still have a VGA port on the laptop because someone somewhere still uses it? No, of course not. Apple have released a product that's designed not just for today, but more importantly one that's still going to be relevant and quite up-to-date a couple of years down the line.
I'm in the same boat, everything I own and use (excluding routers and such of course) is incompatible with the new MacBook out of the box. So I'll have to purchase myself a few adapters. No biggie, the USB-A to USB-C cables are really inexpensive. I'll just buy a few and attached them to the devices that need them, problem solved.
As for the SD, well I've even got a couple of workarounds for that. One of my cameras has WiFi built in, the one that doesn't has an SD card with WiFi built in and I've got a Kingston MobileLite Wireless, should I want to use it. Which has both USB and SD slots. It's one of the few such devices that has Wireless ac, so it's pretty fast. I use it for my iOS devices so I generally have it with me, so no reason not to use it with the MacBook.
I'm glad Apple have built a laptop that's going to be fully compatible with the next big change in interfaces which is already starting to happen.
Sure it's a little annoying and inconvenient and maybe they should have included at least one adapter in the box. But really a couple of inexpensive purchases solves all of the interface problems. So it's not as convenient as having them built into the device, it's hardly such an inconvenience that we can't cope with it, is it? Well it's not for me anyway.
I generally have a bag with me when I take my laptops out and about, so there's plenty of storage for 1 adapter that adds USB-A and HDMI and one tiny little box that adds USB-A and SD. When I'm at home and at my desk the MacBook will be hooked up to a monitor or a hub with one cable that gives me access to all of my external drives and devices.
I genuinely just don't see the big drama with the new MacBook. Well, obviously, or I wouldn't be throwing several grand at one and damn I'm looking forward to it arriving.
Man I can waffle on something rotten when I'm sleep deprived
As a Skylake owner, I will hold out for Coffeelake to upgrade. The difference between Skylake and Kaby Lake is negligible.
The 15-inch Kaby Lake will almost certainly have the HD 630 (Kaby Lake version of HD 530).
Also - the 15-inch will only come with a dGPU for several years thanks to Intel. For the next several years, all 15 inch models will have a slow integrated graphics card (non-Iris) that will be complimented with a dGPU (like the Radeon Pro 450/455/460).
See this: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/22/intel-mobile-roadmap-coffee-lake/
The 15-inch Kaby Lake will almost certainly have the HD 630 (Kaby Lake version of HD 530).
Also - the 15-inch will only come with a dGPU for several years thanks to Intel. For the next several years, all 15 inch models will have a slow integrated graphics card (non-Iris) that will be complimented with a dGPU (like the Radeon Pro 450/455/460).
See this: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/22/intel-mobile-roadmap-coffee-lake/
*waiting for kaby lake + cheaper MBPs crew checking in*
The guys responsible for the macbook battery debacle have been fired, and an improved battery design should be ready for next release, so I am more than fine with waiting.
I've been away from Macs ever since my white iBook g3 couldn't run OSX. Around June, 2001, maybe? I was so much looking forward to the October announcement that I could barely sleep. Woke up early to see what happened, had my credit card out, then laughed once I configured the MBP for in my cart. And then it turned out they had soldered SSDs... ahahaha GTFO.
But, put kaby lake in there and drop the price 500 bucks, and I will hop back on the Mac train. Tired of ******/ugly/cheap notebooks that are always a compromise with something.
The guys responsible for the macbook battery debacle have been fired, and an improved battery design should be ready for next release, so I am more than fine with waiting.
I've been away from Macs ever since my white iBook g3 couldn't run OSX. Around June, 2001, maybe? I was so much looking forward to the October announcement that I could barely sleep. Woke up early to see what happened, had my credit card out, then laughed once I configured the MBP for in my cart. And then it turned out they had soldered SSDs... ahahaha GTFO.
But, put kaby lake in there and drop the price 500 bucks, and I will hop back on the Mac train. Tired of ******/ugly/cheap notebooks that are always a compromise with something.
Jony (the person in charge of design) and Tim (the person who decided to release the computer despite battery problems) are gone?!?!
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