Waiting for the 2017 MBP (Kaby Lake / Cannonlake / Coffee Lake??)

[Val-kyrie]

If I understand this correctly (not an expert at all) the bottleneck is that there is no integrated pro gpu available in Kaby lake. However the available igpu (gt2 or gt3e) is already faster than the dedicated one in my current mbp. So pairing a Kaby lake cpu with a dGPU makes sense to keep the market share. Selling another year outdated hardware is not going to convince a lot of people to upgrade unless their mbp is dying or more than 4 years old. The hit on battery life shouldn't be too bad.

The only 4+2 (quad core hyper thread) CPUs with iGPUs listed for a Kaby Lake release include the meager GT2 (Intel HD). Using these iGPUs which tap the system's RAM as opposed to GT3e or GT4e which include a separate 128MB or 256MB of eDRAM would be a noticeable step backward both in performance and in battery life.

While I would rather Intel provide Apple with a 4+2 GT4e (or even GT3e) option for Kaby Lake, this is not even an option in Intel's roadmap. Consequently, the Skylake CPUs are not considered to be "outdated" by Intel or PC manufacturers. Skylake is actually listed alongside Kaby Lake according to Intel's own release schedule. In fact, the only Skylake CPUs lingering into the Kaby Lake release is this 4+2 GT4e chipset.

What is happening is that Intel has staggered its release schedule, releasing the most complex chipsets (4+2 GT4e / GT3e) last and thus creating overlap with the simplest chipsets (2+2 GT2) of the newest generation. Intel's rollout follows a pattern:

2+2 GT2
2+2 GT3e and 4+2 GT2
4+2 GT3e or GT4e alongside next gen 2+2 GT2


The problem with this staggered release will not be overall performance or even CPU performance, but rather feature parity with regards to I/O and gfx chip capabilities.

It is possible that due to difficulties with the new process node, Intel will be unable to manufacture the 4+2 GT3e/GT4e at 10nm for Kaby Lake. I believe this is the reason Intel has slated Coffee Lake into its roadmap--to allow for a 4+2 GT3e/GT4e with the features introduced by Kaby Lake but with a mature process (14nm).

 

[andiwm2003]

The only 4+2 (quad core hyper thread) CPUs with iGPUs listed for a Kaby Lake release include the meager GT2 (Intel HD). Using these iGPUs which tap the system's RAM as opposed to GT3e or GT4e which include a separate 128MB or 256MB of eDRAM would be a noticeable step backward both in performance and in battery life.

While I would rather Intel provide Apple with a 4+2 GT4e (or even GT3e) option for Kaby Lake, this is not even an option in Intel's roadmap. Consequently, the Skylake CPUs are not considered to be "outdated" by Intel or PC manufacturers. Skylake is actually listed alongside Kaby Lake according to Intel's own release schedule. In fact, the only Skylake CPUs lingering into the Kaby Lake release is this 4+2 GT4e chipset.

What is happening is that Intel has staggered its release schedule, releasing the most complex chipsets (4+2 GT4e / GT3e) last and thus creating overlap with the simplest chipsets (2+2 GT2) of the newest generation. Intel's rollout follows a pattern:

2+2 GT2
2+2 GT3e and 4+2 GT2
4+2 GT3e or GT4e alongside next gen 2+2 GT2


The problem with this staggered release will not be overall performance or even CPU performance, but rather feature parity with regards to I/O and gfx chip capabilities.

It is possible that due to difficulties with the new process node, Intel will be unable to manufacture the 4+2 GT3e/GT4e at 10nm for Kaby Lake. I believe this is the reason Intel has slated Coffee Lake into its roadmap--to allow for a 4+2 GT3e/GT4e with the features introduced by Kaby Lake but with a mature process (14nm).

Thanks that explains a lot.
Since my 2010 mbp is about to die because of the gpu soldering issue and my 2008 mbp just died a few days ago I will have to buy whatever comes out next.
Seems like it will be sky lake with a dGPU and then I might expect a shorter useful lifespan because of the I/O and gfx chip being outdated.

But I hope I get 4 to 5 years out of it.

 

[Val-kyrie]

Thanks that explains a lot.
Since my 2010 mbp is about to die because of the gpu soldering issue and my 2008 mbp just died a few days ago I will have to buy whatever comes out next.
Seems like it will be sky lake with a dGPU and then I might expect a shorter useful lifespan because of the I/O and gfx chip being outdated.

But I hope I get 4 to 5 years out of it.

I wouldn't worry too much about the I/O. The new design will likely be all USB-3.1 type-C. The only hitch is that Apple will have to use a separate controller for TB3 because it won't be incorporated directly into the chipset. However, that should not affect the end user experience.

With the next gen dGPUs from AMD, you should be set for gfx. The big advantage with Kaby Lake is the native support for video encode/decode which may be required for some (4K) video streaming services.

 

[trueredsoxfan58]

Kaby Lake is the first platform that will be completely 4K ready, HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0, HEVC 10bit +HDR + Rec 2020. Skylake wasnt quite there in 4K compliance, and my 2013 i7 8gb 512gb MBA is still very fast, Im waiting it out until kaby lake (or even cannonlake if they skip kaby and just do skylake)

 

[Val-kyrie]

Kaby Lake is the first platform that will be completely 4K ready, HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0, HEVC 10bit +HDR + Rec 2020. Skylake wasnt quite there in 4K compliance, and my 2013 i7 8gb 512gb MBA is still very fast, Im waiting it out until kaby lake (or even cannonlake if they skip kaby and just do skylake)

There was a report that Kaby Lake may not incorporate HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 natively.

 

[trueredsoxfan58]

There was a report that Kaby Lake may not incorporate HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 natively.

Source on that? I remember many slides from intel stating the opposite. It would really be ridiculous if they left that out as the standards have been out for a while now. I wouldnt buy a mac without them as I want to be completely ready for 4K

 

[Val-kyrie]

Source on that? I remember many slides from intel stating the opposite. It would really be ridiculous if they left that out as the standards have been out for a while now. I wouldnt buy a mac without them as I want to be completely ready for 4K

Anandtech's report on Kaby Lake states,

"One of the disappointing aspects from Skylake that has still not been addressed in Kaby Lake-U/Y is the absence of a native HDMI 2.0 port with HDCP 2.2 support. Intel has been advocating the addition of an LSPCon (Level Shifter - Protocol Converter) in the DP 1.2 path. This approach has been used in multiple motherboards and even SFF PCs like the Intel Skull Canyon NUC (NUC6i7KYK) and the ASRock Beebox-S series. Hopefully, future iterations of Kaby Lake (such as the desktop and high-performance mobile parts coming in January) address this issue to simplify BOM cost for system vendors."

 

[prakhar17]

Hopefully, future iterations of Kaby Lake (such as the desktop and high-performance mobile parts coming in January) address this issue to simplify BOM cost for system vendors."

Hopefully!

 

[CaliKW]

Hello everyone,

Im coming over from waiting for skylake hell. Im guessing they may just skip skylake (yes I know KL does not have a G4e part)... and do all mackbooks with kabylake and dGPU?...

Anyhow, nice to meet you all. I hope we are not together for 2+ years

 

[Dydegu]

Can someone explain to me the different between native support and support via a controller? I know (I think) the fundamental difference of requiring an additional controller/chip vs. having everything integrated into the CPU. If you can still get the support you need, why does it matter whether it's native or via a controller?

 

[CaliKW]

While Im not an circuit engineer - I'd say the main advantage to integrated / systems on a chip is the power usage. Kaby Lake TB3 controller on die will likely use less / much less power than separate chip. Another benefit is physical space requirements in the laptop - more room for battery, cooling. Less connections/components also means lower failure rate (think like going from .002% for two chip solution to .001% failure rate).

 

[rezwits]

Just checking in, I have been over in the SkyLake lobby. Man that was a blast this week. Now do you guys seriously think this will turn the SkyLake into a never ending thread? i.e. They will skip SkyLake rMBP? and go directly to Kaby? because if they do goto SkyLake, then they'll probably skip Kaby. But here is the insane logic. I can't see them skipping Kaby! But I can't see them releasing a SkyLake rMBP and then in under one year, going to a Kaby rMBP?! So it's either SkyLake then CanonLake, but man I can't see them skipping Kaby... and going SkyLake then Kaby in two years from now? Either that or Sky, Kaby, Canon, year after year, which I can't see. hmm interesting...

SOMETHINGS gotta give.

Either skip Sky
or skip Kaby (can't see)
goto every year releases (can't see)
or skip Canon? hmm

 

[rezwits]

besides the theoretical bus speed, most of the usb drives i've come across were f slow af.
i admit, i haven't tested any of the supposedly faster ones, but i wouldn't even remotely compare them to ssds, or even think of useing them for anything but file transfer.
i hope you got a good deal out of it, but given the price, you must be honest with yourself that it can't do miracles... let us know!

edit: it looks neat though as an always attached thing, quite like any logitech wireless mouse usb thingy

Looks like I got a 5.0 GT USB Drive from the reports in my profiler. I tried it out along with other MacBook Pro (related) topics. But I would be surprised to see some better Retina MacBook Results, or if and when the 2016 rMBP comes out with Type-C.

Chart

 

[Val-kyrie]

Just checking in, I have been over in the SkyLake lobby. Man that was a blast this week. Now do you guys seriously think this will turn the SkyLake into a never ending thread? i.e. They will skip SkyLake rMBP? and go directly to Kaby? because if they do goto SkyLake, then they'll probably skip Kaby. But here is the insane logic. I can't see them skipping Kaby! But I can't see them releasing a SkyLake rMBP and then in under one year, going to a Kaby rMBP?! So it's either SkyLake then CanonLake, but man I can't see them skipping Kaby... and going SkyLake then Kaby in two years from now? Either that or Sky, Kaby, Canon, year after year, which I can't see. hmm interesting...

SOMETHINGS gotta give.

Either skip Sky
or skip Kaby (can't see)
goto every year releases (can't see)
or skip Canon? hmm

Please read my comment at the top of page 9 in this thread. There will be no Kaby Lake 13" or 15" rMBP this year. The processors simply are not available yet.

 

[rezwits]

oh I thought this was the 2018 waiting list, I am trying to figure out if there will EVER be a Kaby Lake Mac.

I don't mind WAITING, as long as things get done RIGHT...

 

[Val-kyrie]

oh I thought this was the 2018 waiting list, I am trying to figure out if there will EVER be a Kaby Lake Mac.

I don't mind WAITING, as long as things get done RIGHT...

Unfortunately, there may not be a Kaby Lake 15" MBP Intel has already acknowledge that its 10nm yields are poor and consequently its Kaby Lake roadmap lacks the (complex) chipset required by Apple. The only hope is that Intel's newly announced 14nm Coffee Lake platform will offer a quad-core CPU with the GT3e/GT4e gfx chip, but too little is known about it at this time to comment. We will know more when Apple releases its Skylake redesign in October.

[Edit: If it is true that there will be no Kaby Lake 4+2 GT3e/GT4e chipsets, you may have to wait until 2018 for the release of Coffee Lake, which is the Kaby Lake revision. So sadly you are in the right thread.]

 

[rezwits]

Oh I see what happened here, guys wanted to get smart and think that Kaby Lake was going to be in the "New Retina MacBook Pro 2016" when it had absolutely no chance. Then as soon as the SkyLake thread is dead, because of no more waiting, we need to start a Waiting for Canon/Coffee Lake 201x Thread, asap.

This way we can get going on 2000 pages. We're gonna need a head start early if we're going to get there, 50,000 posts? Wow, that's like 55 posts a day for 2.5 years...(that's 25 posts a day for SkyLake, kinda wow)

k, back to SkyLake...

 

[TSteyn]

Dell released the Inspiron 5000 and 7000 13" and 15" notebooks with 7th generation Kaby Lake CPU.

Both sell for around $1,000

 

[unagimiyagi]

So you're saying that when the brand spanking new macbook pros get released next month, we're going to be celebrating outdated hardware upon release?
That is, Kaby lake has been released, yet Apple will be releasing skylake macbook pros for a laptop that it is advertising as its best and latest and greatest when in fact, cpu wise, it's been surpassed by a $1000 laptop already before it's even been released?

 

[x-evil-x]

So you're saying that when the brand spanking new macbook pros get released next month, we're going to be celebrating outdated hardware upon release?
That is, Kaby lake has been released, yet Apple will be releasing skylake macbook pros for a laptop that it is advertising as its best and latest and greatest when in fact, cpu wise, it's been surpassed by a $1000 laptop already before it's even been released?

oii. I'm done with this thread until release. no point in freaking out over something WE DO NOT KNOW YET..
just wait.

 

[Basic75]

That is, Kaby lake has been released

Only a few dual-core Kaby Lakes have been released, nothing suitable for an MBP yet.
[doublepost=1473673381][/doublepost]

Dell released the Inspiron 5000 and 7000 13" and 15" notebooks with 7th generation Kaby Lake CPU.

Both sell for around $1,000

And both only have a dual-core processor because Intel hasn't released any quad-core Kaby Lake yet.

 

[JaiyoInc]

The e key on my 2012 MacBook Pro is almost worn off. I hope I get new e key for Christmas.

 

[2457248]

The e key on my 2012 MacBook Pro is almost worn off. I hope I get new e key for Christmas.

why do you type so many e's?

 

[RoboWarriorSr]

Looks like Kaby Lake will likely not be released for the 15" rMBP if this report is of any indication

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Another-detailed-CPU-roadmap-leak-2017-2018.173996.0.html

Iris Pro will not be available for Quad Core 47 watt CPUs, only GT2 Intel graphics so looks like Apple will stick with Skylake or integrate AMD GPU's in all models. Don't see Apple ditching Intel graphics after heavily utilizing in all their previous models.

 

[myscrnnm]

why do you type so many e's?

'E' is the most frequently used letter in the English language, so why wouldn't he/she type a lot of 'e's?