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Waiting for the 2017 MBP (Kaby Lake / Cannonlake / Coffee Lake??)
- Thread starter buster84
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Looks like apple might just skip skylake (hopefully since it's already so late) if they don't then this thread will have a very long wait!
https://www.macrumors.com/2016/07/21/intel-begins-shipping-kaby-lake-processors/
Since Kaby Lake is now shipping maybe this is what apple was waiting for which could explain the delay. I hope this is true and they arn't going to disappoint us with skylake and actually deliver us the most up to date this yearthe macbook pro lineup really needs this.
You might want to get ready for a long wait
. I have been reading up on Intel's CPU road maps and I would like to share:I plan to sit out Apple's rMBP redesign with my 2013 MBA, so I was reading about the Kaby Lake roadmap and discovered that the release dates for all Kaby Lake CPUs have been revealed except for the quad-core CPUs with Iris Pro.
It has also been reported that Intel has a yet unannounced Coffee Lake 14nm optimization of Kaby Lake slated to be released in 2018 alongside the 10nm Cannon Lake CPU because of the anticipated difficulty of the shrink to 10nm. It seems Coffee Lake will offer up to 6 cores and Iris Pro whereas Cannon Lake will offer only up to 2 cores and Iris (no Iris Pro).
In short, it seems that Intel is releasing the CPUs with Iris Pro used for Apple's 15" rMBP at the end of its release schedule for that product line, if at all.
The implications are unpleasant: unless Apple changes CPUs (e.g., to a Xeon CPU) and foregoes Iris Pro gfx, the 15" rMBP will likely continue to lag the entire Mac line in CPU technology (instruction sets, node size, etc) since it will be the last to be updated. We will wait and watch (and cry) as the MB and even the 13" rMBP are updated with the latest CPUs while the 15" "stagnates."
Based on Intel's road map, I think we will see the following:
2016
Kaby Lake-------MB-------------------[14nm]
Sky Lake--------13" and 15" rMBP---[14nm]
2017
Cannon Lake----MB (Fall)------------[10nm]
Kaby Lake-------13" rMBP (Spring)--[14nm]
SkyLake---------15" rMBP------------[14nm]
2018
Ice Lake (?)-----MB (Fall)------------[10nm]
Cannon Lake----13" rMBP------------[10nm]
Coffee Lake-----15" rMBP------------[14nm]
For me, the most important aspects of Apple's lineup are the I/O and the gfx technologies. I am really hoping for TB3 and I will not buy a rMBP until they support HDCP 2.2.
Think Different-ly
[Thanks to curmudgeonette who corrected my error--Kaby Lake is indeed made on a 14nm node, not the 10nm as I originally stated.]
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I miss Serban
@WRONG thread to miss Serban...
You should go to the Serban appreciation thread, formerly known as waiting for skylake MBP
Some say he's still trying to log into MR to this day.I miss Serban
Apple prior track record with dGPUs and MBPs have left me questioning whether I'd be willing to roll the dice. My 2012 has been rock solid and since the 2012 models and upward, we've not had any reports, so hopefully they fixed what caused the 2011 models to fail. For my needs I don't think I need one either so a iGPU is the way to go for me.
I used to think that way, but after all of the past issues with internal dGPUs, I am becoming more in favor of an eGPU solution.
I'll nit-pick this a little: we won't see Kaby Lake in ANY Apple laptop this year since the MacBook was updated with Skylake in April. So Kaby Lake next spring (for the MacBook) and probably Cannon Lake in 2018. I would also think all the Pros get Skylake with the impending redesign (Fall 2016), and Kabylake Fall 2017 (i.e., no Skylake for 2017).
Can someone help me understand why Macrumors writes "More powerful mobile Kaby Lake chips with Iris graphics and desktop chips such as those appropriate for the MacBook Pro and iMac are expected to begin debuting in January" (https://www.macrumors.com/2016/08/30/intel-kaby-lake-mobile/)?
The Kaby lake models announced today are only suitable for the MBA and Retina MacBook. The higher watt versions for the iMac and MBP come out in January.
And the Retina MacBook won't be updated this fall unless they are replacing the MacBook Air.
I meant that I had got the impression from the Skylake thread and this one that it would be more like June. Is there any actual evidence for the release dates for those chips?
Do the new AMD dGPUs that might come in the new MBP also give hardware 4k decoding? If you work with video and do get a dGPU (if available), does that mean waiting for Kaby would only be an incremental performance gain?
It's using the Kaby Lake processor suitable for the rMB. If Apple is really skipping Skylake then there will be no MBP this year unless Apple somehow got it early.
Yes, when Intel released the low-end Kaby Lake they said desktop/high end laptop chips are coming in January.
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Please note the rumor says "more powerful chips ... are expected." People are assuming Intel will release a Laby Lake CPU-GPU suitable for the 15" rMBP. Please see last comment.
Unfortunately, no.
The biggest problem which no one on MR is acknowledging is that there is no mention of the GT4e (quad-core with Iris Pro gfx) which Apple uses for its 15" rMBPs on Intel's Kaby Lake release schedule.
Let me say it again, Intel's road map for Kaby Lake is now public and the GT4e GPUs used in the rMBP are absent. Apple may have to wait for Coffee Lake (2018) to get an update suitable for the 15" rMBP.
IIRC the GT4e was also absent from the Broadwell lineup. This is the reason there was no Broadwell update for the 15" rMBP and the reason it is still sporting the Haswell CPU. Get ready for another 18-24 month update cycle for the 15" rMBP.
What about if they do have dGPU 15" models? Would they use the same GT4e chip or is there a quad-core with a less powerful iGPU that they would partner with a dGPU?
According to Intel's leaked road map for Kaby Lake, there is no quad-core with GT4e, GT3e or GT3 gfx (Iris Pro with or without eDRAM or Iris). IMO it is unlikely Apple will upgrade the rMBPs to a quad-core with dGPU only if for no other reason than it would reduce the rMBP battery life.
One possibility is the introduction of a rMBP with a Zen CPU/iGPU and Vega dGPU if it can improve performance over Intel's Skylake platform, but that would be the only possibility of which I am aware and I don't know if that is even feasible. Moreover, no one knows much about the performance of either of AMD's chips yet.
Well, for all we know Apple had Intel make a chip just for them, ala first gen MBA.
It looks like whatever Apple does, it's going to be weird. If they release MBAs + 13" with Kaby Lake and the rest with Skylake, the 15" will seem old. If they just upgrade to Skylake and skip Kaby lake, then everything will seem old. Maybe it wouldn't matter as only nerds like us would notice...
Well, I had been debating where to jump into this mess Intel has created and found that it is worse than I had thought. Anandtech's review of the U/Y version of Kaby Lake is out and it's graphics capabilities are a mixed bag. IMO, this is the most important aspect of Kaby Lake.
Intel has delivered "full hardware acceleration for encode and decode of 4K HEVC Main10 profile videos ... rated at 4Kp60 up to 120 Mbps" so that "even the 4.5W TDP Y-series processors can handle real-time HEVC 4Kp30 encode." It can also "handle 8b/10b HEVC and VP9 decode and 10b HEVC / 8b VP9 encode" but not 10b VP9 encode.
Interestingly a Kaby Lake based PC will be required by Netflix and Sony's ULTRA services to stream 4K video. It seems Intel has added an unspecified DRM addition.
To my chagrin, Kaby Lake-U/Y is still missing a native HDMI 2.0 port with HDCP 2.2 support. Very disappointing.
Yes, this is concerning!
In the Broadwell generation, the top of the line graphics were called GT3e. According to the Wikipedia chart, there are a number of models with the 128MB eDRAM: Two desktop, three "embedded", four mobile, and five Xeons. The 21.5" retina iMac gives a choice of two of the "embedded" models.
You are correct. Apple could have chosen to update to Broadwell quad cores in the 15" rMBP but did not.
I believe Intel is keeping the GT3e with 128MB of eDRAM and adding a GT4e with 256MB of eDRAM for Skylake. Both are Iris Pro. (I forgot about Intel's number scheme addition.) Hence the alarm that leaks have not shown any Iris Pro or Iris gfx with any quad core Kaby Lake CPU. However, Iris GPUs (GT2) are shown with dual core CPUs.
I think it's just waiting for any MBP at this point.
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