Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[turbineseaplane]

If Apple offered a 32 GB model, it would be worse quality (mediocre battery life).

They offer the MacBook Air, and it is worse quality (mediocre screen).

Your first point is impossible to know, as we don't know what that offering might be.
They might simply design around more power needed and have a different form factor, etc

The 2nd point doesn't even make sense to me honestly.

The MBA is absolutely not "low quality".

You simply don't like a certain component of it (the screen), but there's no technical reason the MBA couldn't have a Retina screen. They are holding that back to try to drive customers up market to the rMB and MBP's, not because of a quality issue or lack of capability.

 

[EugW]

Your first point is impossible to know, as we don't know what that offering might be.
They might simply design around more power needed and have a different form factor, etc

The 2nd point doesn't even make sense to me honestly.

The MBA is absolutely not "low quality".

You simply don't like a certain component of it (the screen), but there's no technical reason the MBA couldn't have a Retina screen. They are holding that back to try to drive customers up market to the rMB and MBP's, not because of a quality issue or lack of capability.

If it gets a retina screen then it’s not an Air. And the 13” Pro already weighs the same as the Air, with a vastly superior screen.

The Air should be deleted from Apple’s offerings.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If it gets a retina screen the it’s not an Air. And the 13” Pro already weighs the same as the Air, with a vastly superior screen.

You keep moving goalposts all over the place.
You said the Air was "low quality" as a product (it's not).

When you were talking about Dell and being low quality you weren't talking about specs like the screen, but literally the quality of the products (fit/finish/reliabilty/build quality), were you not?

That's a totally different discussion vs specific specs of a given model.

Aside from that, nothing about "non-retina" = "the Air" by necessity.

It was just a device birthed in the pre-retina era, but one could certainly be upgraded to retina and still called the Air (if Apple wanted)

 

[impulse462]

If it gets a retina screen the it’s not an Air. And the 13” Pro already weighs the same as the Air, with a vastly superior screen.

weight isn't the only thing that makes an air though. the tapered design arguably made it a true "Air".

In any case the 13 nonTB "Pro" is an abomination and should be killed. apple (historically) prides itself on quality products. the 12" macbook with its no fan design and this 13" nonTB thing should be combined into the new macbook air imo.
[doublepost=1522009891][/doublepost]

You keep moving goalposts all over the place.
You said the Air was "low quality" as a product (it's not).

When you were talking about Dell and being low quality you weren't talking about specs like the screen, but literally the quality of the products (fit/finish/reliabilty/build quality), were you not?

That's a totally different discussion vs specific specs of a given model.

Aside from that, nothing about "non-retina" = "the Air" by necessity.

It was just a device birthed in the pre-retina era, but one could certainly be upgraded to retina and still called the Air (if Apple wanted)

agree. if anything the air should be more capable for a retina display than the 12" macbook

 

[turbineseaplane]

In any case the 13 nonTB "Pro"

Thank you. Totally agree.
We have that in the house and it's a total f'in *dog* of a machine.

One of the worst Macs I've ever used honestly..

 

[EugW]

weight isn't the only thing that makes an air though. the tapered design arguably made it a true "Air".

In any case the 13 nonTB "Pro" is an abomination and should be killed. apple (historically) prides itself on quality products. the 12" macbook with its no fan design and this 13" nonTB thing should be combined into the new macbook air imo.
[doublepost=1522009891][/doublepost]
agree. if anything the air should be more capable for a retina display than the 12" macbook

The 13” Pro non-TB was designed to replace the 13” Air. Way better machine too.

In fact, it’s my favourite amongst the Pro line. The Touch Bar is a gimmick. However, I own the 12” MacBook. Suits me better as my primary machine is a dual 27” screen iMac.

 

[impulse462]

The 13” Pro non-TB was designed to replace the 13” Air. Way better machine too.

it was designed to attract a customer who would normally purchase a macbook air. the tapered design is its whole shtick. remember when steve pulled it out of an office envelope?

 

[Falhófnir]

agree. if anything the air should be more capable for a retina display than the 12" macbook

Yup, I understand the HD 615 graphics still falls short of the HD 6000 in the air 3 years/ 2 generations on!

 

[meme1255]

The 13” Pro non-TB was designed to replace the 13” Air. Way better machine too.

Way better. Well. It depends.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The 13” Pro non-TB was designed to replace the 13” Air. Way better machine too.

uhh - no it's not - I have one.
The screen is better but that's mostly where the "better" ends in my opinion.

 

[impulse462]

In fact, it’s my favourite amongst the Pro line. The Touch Bar is a gimmick.

i have several applications which use it (with more support on the way). its not only my opinion too. i have a few coworkers who use the touchbar who originally thought it was a gimmick but really like it now

 

[turbineseaplane]

The Touch Bar is a gimmick.

I tend to agree with you on this..
YMMV for all w/ the TB

 

[EugW]

i have several applications which use it (with more support on the way). its not only my opinion too. i have a few coworkers who use the touchbar who originally thought it was a gimmick but really like it now

The people I know who actually like it are Final Cut users so I’ll give you that. Unfortunately, support for it is pretty poor outside of a few specific applications.

 

[windows12]

Thank you. Totally agree.
We have that in the house and it's a total f'in *dog* of a machine.

One of the worst Macs I've ever used honestly..

Why is it so bad?

 

[impulse462]

The people I know who actually like it are Final Cut users so I’ll give you that.

Heh, i use final cut, but my coworkers don't. mostly autocad. I use maya and when that brings touchbar support it should be super cool mainly for the ability to customize it. maya already has loads of keyboard shortcuts which i like but sometimes i cant remember every single one

 

[turbineseaplane]

.

 

[EugW]

It's a dog - the power drains too fast - it has weird issues waking from sleep and dealing with the external monitor my wife uses (just a normal 1920x1200 monitor - no fancy high Rez or anything) - it beachballs a lot - her space bar keeps getting stuck (she's a neat freak - it's not a food/dirt thing)..

I could go on and on and on with complaints about it..

I've been using Macs forever and just never had one around me that's so flaky and chintzy and just not high quality feeling in its operation and usage over the long term.

Sounds like a lemon. If the space bar is getting stuck then you need it serviced.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Sounds like a lemon. If the space bar is getting stuck then you need it serviced.

It's not a lemon - just a normal 2016 MacBook Pro

 

[meme1255]

I see these major issues with current 2016/2017 MBPs (resolvable by Apple, LPDRR4 support needs to be added by Intel):
1) The reliability of the butterfly keyboard.
(Hopefully will be improved)
2) The lack of terraced batteries, which leads to poor battery life (as the capacity was cut down significantly).
(Hopefully will be improved)
3) Price, mainly in the EU (the price increase has been intensified by poor exchange rates). The TouchBar might be a nice companion, although I do not think that it is worth 400 €.
(If Apple has gotten that greedy that the prices will not be adjusted, I will be really disappointed. The NAND & RAM prices have gone up-hill, but the exchange rate EUR/USD has improved by 20 %!)
4) Lack of the SD slot. It COULD be present, I do not agree with the explanation given at WWDC ("Some photographers use CF cards, so we have removed SD so that they do not feel worse than SD users").
(I do not see that changed.)

+ USB-C to Lightning or USB-A to Lightning cable option should be given when you order a new iDevice.
(I just do not get this).

 

[EugW]

It's not a lemon - just a normal 2016 MacBook Pro

I have none of these issues on a 2017 MacBook. If I did, I’d get it serviced.

 

[meme1255]

It's not a lemon - just a normal 2016 MacBook Pro

I have to buy whatever Apple releases as I start to be unable to do most of the tasks on my current Air (I have expected to replace it in 2016 (!) ). It is impossible to run VMs and almost impossible to work in Xcode or any other resource-demanding IDE. At least I am able to run MATLAB in order to do tasks given in school, but that's it. It's inconvenient even to run IntelliJ to do school Java assignments. "Fortunately" I do not have time to do part-time iOS development this semester, otherwise I would be mad (I already was been during summer). I am used to constrained ports "thanks" to the 11" Air, but I do not understand why the SD slot has been removed from MBPs (the only real reason in my opinion is that is was used as a way to get additional storage by many users).
[doublepost=1522012730][/doublepost]

I have none of these issues on a 2017 MacBook. If I did, I’d get it serviced.

MacBook != MBP. The keyboards are different, hence the different experiences.

 

[EugW]

MacBook != MBP. The keyboards are different, hence the different experiences.

The MacBook 2017 has a 2nd gen butterfly keyboard, which debuted as the 2016 MacBook Pro's keyboard. They may be somewhat different, but they are based on the same mechanism, which is why I mentioned my 2017 MacBook.

Like I said, if it was behaving as that one did, I would get it serviced. I also happen to know other MacBook Pro users who don't have that problem.

It's quite possible that the sticking happens more than it should, but that doesn't mean it's functioning normally for that model.
[doublepost=1522013819][/doublepost]

You keep moving goalposts all over the place.
You said the Air was "low quality" as a product (it's not).

When you were talking about Dell and being low quality you weren't talking about specs like the screen, but literally the quality of the products (fit/finish/reliabilty/build quality), were you not?

That's a totally different discussion vs specific specs of a given model.

Aside from that, nothing about "non-retina" = "the Air" by necessity.

It was just a device birthed in the pre-retina era, but one could certainly be upgraded to retina and still called the Air (if Apple wanted)

I said the Air has a mediocre screen, which makes it a low... OK... mediocre... quality product. And I also said if you put a Retina screen in it, it's no longer an Air. And they already have a 13" model that fits the bill, which is the non-TB MBP. The non-TB MBP actually has a smaller footprint than the Air too, and is the same weight.

For the Dells, I was talking about the fact that they have way too many SKUs that just confuse the shopping process, and make the whole experience frustrating. You pick a machine that may have the features and design you want, only to discover you can't buy it with an SSD.

The Air isn't quite as bad, but the CPUs are 2 years old, meaning the new codec (HEVC) Apple is building its ecosystem around isn't supported in hardware, and you can't spec one with a Retina screen. It also has no USB-C support.

I think the writing is on the wall. Perhaps we shall see on Tuesday, but either way I suspect Apple will kill off the Air sooner rather than later. Maybe Apple will come up with an entirely new 13" product on Tuesday, but maybe not.

 

[c0ppo]

IMHO, lineup should be something like this:

12" MB
14" MBP
16" MBP

In 16" they should offer way more then they used to. So don't stick just with usual stuff and try to be the best 'all rounder', but try to offer a true workstation. No matter what the cost is.

14" should be there in the form factor of todays 13" MBP. That way 13" lovers would still benefit from small form factor, and yet get a bigger screen. 16" should offer more ram, more ports, better cpu/gpu, etc.

12" is for those who really seek portability.

That is one easy to understand, and easy to maintain product line.
As of now, we have outdated Macbook Air, then ultra portable Macbook, then 2 variants of 13" MBP of which one should be a replacement for Macbook air, and of course - 15" MBP.

Similar things are happening in iPad lineup, and as of late, in iPhone lineup as well. They had a perfect lineup, but when Tim took over, he ruined it. Now every year that passes, Apple is being more and more Apple of the 90's.

 

[meme1255]

The MacBook 2017 has a 2nd gen butterfly keyboard, which debuted as the 2016 MacBook Pro's keyboard. They may be somewhat different, but they are based on the same mechanism, which is why I mentioned my 2017 MacBook.

Like I said, if it was behaving as that one did, I would get it serviced. I also happen to know other MacBook Pro users who don't have that problem.

It's quite possible that the sticking happens more than it should, but that doesn't mean it's functioning normally for that model.
[doublepost=1522013819][/doublepost]

They cannot be the same as the key travel is different. It might be very similar, but they are not the same.
The Air "issue" can be resolved easily: Decrease price of the MBA 2016/2017. The nTB MB.

 

[jagooch]

13" is the sweet spot for me. I've had 14" and 15" laptop screens before, and I returned them due to the screen size being to large for my wants ( portability).