Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[Falhófnir]

IMHO, lineup should be something like this:

12" MB
14" MBP
16" MBP

In 16" they should offer way more then they used to. So don't stick just with usual stuff and try to be the best 'all rounder', but try to offer a true workstation. No matter what the cost is.

14" should be there in the form factor of todays 13" MBP. That way 13" lovers would still benefit from small form factor, and yet get a bigger screen. 16" should offer more ram, more ports, better cpu/gpu, etc.

12" is for those who really seek portability.

That is one easy to understand, and easy to maintain product line.
As of now, we have outdated Macbook Air, then ultra portable Macbook, then 2 variants of 13" MBP of which one should be a replacement for Macbook air, and of course - 15" MBP.

Similar things are happening in iPad lineup, and as of late, in iPhone lineup as well. They had a perfect lineup, but when Tim took over, he ruined it. Now every year that passes, Apple is being more and more Apple of the 90's.

I’d prefer something along the lines of:

12” MacBook
Core Y 4.5W chips
Portability focused
From $999

13” MacBook
Core U 28W chips
Balanced focus
From $1,199

15” MacBook
Core U 28W chips
Balanced focus
From $1,399

15” MacBook Pro
Core H 45W chips
Dedicated GPU - like current models
Power focus
From $2,399

17” MacBook Pro
Core HK (overcolckable) chips
Dedicated GPU - more powerful
Most power focused
From $2,999

 

[BiscottiGelato]

I feel like the short distance is related - a small travel means less rebound force means it takes less crap in the mechanism to produce enough friction to cause the keycap to stick. Also a smaller travel means tighter tolerances are required to make sure the key actuates properly - tighter tolerances also mean the mechanism would be more prone to becoming stuck from debris getting into it. Obviously this is just speculation, but it makes logical sense to me.

But less failure rate on the rMB with an even thinner keyboard? What you feel and speculate has nothing to do with root cause.

Apple needs to get their act together, come clean, fix this and warranty the existing keyboards. No need to do witch hunts against 'thinness'.

 

[Falhófnir]

But less failure rate on the rMB with an even thinner keyboard? What you feel and speculate has nothing to do with root cause.

Apple needs to get their act together, come clean, fix this and warranty the existing keyboards. No need to do witch hunts against 'thinness'.

Considering it’s all based on speculation and anecdote I’m not sure you can pull a statistically significant difference about the MacBooks failure rate vs the Pros? Others have speculated heat is involved (people generally use the rMB for less intensive tasks so less heat generated even though it is also passively cooled).

As for witch hunts about thinness, well it is a terrible keyboard of you do a high volume of typing. And that’s not based on speculation unfortunately the closest we will seemingly come to a fix is moving to a touch screen with haptic feedback - which might fix sticking keys but wouldn’t improve typing experience

 

[gadgetfreaky]

I’d prefer something along the lines of:



17” MacBook Pro
Core HK (overcolckable) chips
Dedicated GPU - more powerful
Most power focused
From $2,999

17 inch would make me so happy. apple likes smaller but they could probably fit it into the current 15.4 footprint just by shrinking bezels.

4 pound 17 inch in current 15.4 body would be a dream machine and they'd def be able to charge 2999 for it.

 

[richinaus]

IMHO, lineup should be something like this:

12" MB
14" MBP
16" MBP

In 16" they should offer way more then they used to. So don't stick just with usual stuff and try to be the best 'all rounder', but try to offer a true workstation. No matter what the cost is.

14" should be there in the form factor of todays 13" MBP. That way 13" lovers would still benefit from small form factor, and yet get a bigger screen. 16" should offer more ram, more ports, better cpu/gpu, etc.

12" is for those who really seek portability.

That is one easy to understand, and easy to maintain product line.
As of now, we have outdated Macbook Air, then ultra portable Macbook, then 2 variants of 13" MBP of which one should be a replacement for Macbook air, and of course - 15" MBP.

Similar things are happening in iPad lineup, and as of late, in iPhone lineup as well. They had a perfect lineup, but when Tim took over, he ruined it. Now every year that passes, Apple is being more and more Apple of the 90's.

Yes the air should be gone, and I dont understand why it is around.
Your lineup sounds good to me [reduce bezels to increase screen size] although I dont agree with making the 16" a workstation. The current machines are a perfect balance of speed and size.

Get a desktop + a laptop if you need speed and portability. There are some that want a portable workstation, but I think you will find this is a large minority [I am actually included in this but saw the reality].
I came to the realisation of what and how Apple operate and it is very clever.
They expect you to use the right tool for the job and also expect you to have multiple devices to achieve this job, rather than something like a surface device.

I agree with this approach and now embrace it fully. They have designed the ecosystem to really allow fluid working across all devices and make it a joy to work.

However, the above comes at a cost. I see this cost as the price you pay to use apple products appropriately. It is a lot more than the going windows, but at the same time I believe you get a much better experience.

For me an iMac pro, MacBook Pro, iPad Pro and iPhone X are the right tools for me to truly operate as I need to. Yes it costs $$ but is all earning me money in my business, and I want to enjoy working fluidly. Windows hardware still does not provide this as well.

So forget about a workstation MacBook Pro. Will never happen. It is not the Apple way - either embrace it or go windows. Took me a while to do so........

 

[unobtainium]

I see these major issues with current 2016/2017 MBPs (resolvable by Apple, LPDRR4 support needs to be added by Intel):
1) The reliability of the butterfly keyboard.
(Hopefully will be improved)
2) The lack of terraced batteries, which leads to poor battery life (as the capacity was cut down significantly).
(Hopefully will be improved)
3) Price, mainly in the EU (the price increase has been intensified by poor exchange rates). The TouchBar might be a nice companion, although I do not think that it is worth 400 €.
(If Apple has gotten that greedy that the prices will not be adjusted, I will be really disappointed. The NAND & RAM prices have gone up-hill, but the exchange rate EUR/USD has improved by 20 %!)
4) Lack of the SD slot. It COULD be present, I do not agree with the explanation given at WWDC ("Some photographers use CF cards, so we have removed SD so that they do not feel worse than SD users").
(I do not see that changed.)

+ USB-C to Lightning or USB-A to Lightning cable option should be given when you order a new iDevice.
(I just do not get this).

I would add: Trackpads are too freaking big and keep getting accidentally triggered if you have tap-to-click enabled. Especially on the 15”, which I was just trying out the other day.
[doublepost=1522035745][/doublepost]

Personally, I think they should shrink the Mac laptop product line.


No full Cannon Lake product line appropriate for the MacBook Pro for 2018 Q2. Furthermore, many believe there will NEVER be a full Cannon Lake product line appropriate for the MacBook Pro, and that Intel will jump straight from Coffee Lake to Ice Lake for most SKUs. Ice Lake won't appear in Macs until 2019.

Ice Lake is the new name for what they used to call Skymont, right? Intel has become very confusing.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Especially on the 15”, which I was just trying out the other day.

Boy no kidding - They didn't need to keep scaling up the trackpad size with the 15".
No trackpad needs to be bigger than what's offered on the 13" - and honestly I could use even slightly smaller than that.

What I really miss on the newer trackpads is how they killed the space between the space bar and the top of the trackpad. That's a great place to allow your fingers to rest and thumb to be in preparation for hitting space bar over and over but without any risk of grazing the pad and moving the cursor/changing focus.

 

[EugW]

Ice Lake is the new name for what they used to call Skymont, right? Intel has become very confusing.

No. I believe Skymont became Cannon Lake. Ice Lake comes after Cannon Lake. However, people are saying that much of Cannon Lake has been cancelled.

 

[TheralSadurns]

If Apple offered a 32 GB model, it would be worse quality (mediocre battery life).

They offer the MacBook Air, and it is worse quality (mediocre screen).

Now that argument makes no sense. To me... I can make the EXACT same argument the other way round.

"If Apple offered a 16GB LPDDR3 model, it would be worse quality (RAM like in 2011)."

 

[impulse462]

Now that argument makes no sense. To me... I can make the EXACT same argument the other way round.

"If Apple offered a 16GB LPDDR3 model, it would be worse quality (RAM like in 2011)."

this is really a simple issue. ddr4 would require redesigning the board AND it is too costly on battery life. intel chips that support lpddr4 come out next year so theyre obviously just waiting the year out.

for people who TRULY NEED 32gb (e.g. people who run VMs all day) either they'd buy an imac, get another product, or wait it out. it seems apple has calculated that losing whatever money/marketshare by waiting this year (if they do) is worth it.

 

[ugru]

this is really a simple issue. ddr4 would require redesigning the board AND it is too costly on battery life.

Only if you are dumb enough to redesign your machine to be uselessly thin, therefore slashing 25% of your battery capacity, like Apple did on the 2016 MBP.

If the rMBP stayed as thick as the previous generation (which NOBODY thought was too thick), with the same battery, the use of DDR4 (even 32GB) coupled with the more energy efficent internals would have had a negligible impact on battery life (from 10hrs to 8 hrs tops, perfectly acceptable)...

Again, IMHO it was a solution to a non existent problem....

 

[meme1255]

Only if you are dumb enough to redesign your machine to be uselessly thin, therefore slashing 25% of your battery capacity, like Apple did on the 2016 MBP.

If the rMBP stayed as thick as the previous generation (which NOBODY thought was too thick), with the same battery, the use of DDR4 (even 32GB) coupled with the more energy efficent internals would have had a negligible impact on battery life (from 10hrs to 8 hrs tops, perfectly acceptable)...

Again, IMHO it was a solution to a non existent problem....

The issue with battery life is caused by the usage of standard batteries instead of the terraced ones.

 

[ugru]

The issue with battery life is caused by the usage of standard batteries instead of the terraced ones.

Terraced, round, prismatic, pear-shaped...The shape of the battery is irrelevant. The capacity is the important thing, if you go from 99.5whrs to 75Whrs because you want to say: "See, we made it thinner!!!1!!", then IMHO you are dumb.

 

[midouglas]

The fact many US outlets are starting to offer the 2016 512gb model at $1,899.00 is frustrating. That's £1,337, or with 20% VAT, £1605. When will offers like this appear in Europe?

 

[c0ppo]

Get a desktop + a laptop if you need speed and portability. There are some that want a portable workstation, but I think you will find this is a large minority [I am actually included in this but saw the reality].

I already own a desktop (iMP) + laptop (rMB + Lenovo p51).
And I do agree, only minority needs a workstation laptop.

They expect you to use the right tool for the job and also expect you to have multiple devices to achieve this job, rather than something like a surface device.

Well, the problem is that they don't have the right tool in some cases. Like in mobile workstations. I can't take my iMP with me, and MBP isn't even close to being a workstation laptop. So they forced me to go with Lenovo p51

For me an iMac pro, MacBook Pro, iPad Pro and iPhone X are the right tools for me to truly operate as I need to. Yes it costs $$ but is all earning me money in my business, and I want to enjoy working fluidly. Windows hardware still does not provide this as well.

I wouldn't agree with the hardware part. Almost all hardware companies offer way better hardware when compared to Apple lineup. Windows is the problem (well, for some of us at least), not the hardware.

So forget about a workstation MacBook Pro. Will never happen. It is not the Apple way - either embrace it or go windows. Took me a while to do so........

I agree. Apple won't do it, and I'm more then aware of that. But one can rant, right?
And with 16", I didn't mean it had to be a workstation. Offer it just like todays 15" MBP, but with options to upgrade it to being a workstation. That way you will make peace with professional users who need the power, while retaining battery life and everything else for most of the people who really don't need all that power.

But then again, this won't ever happen. Apple doesn't really care about pro users, and I can't say that I blame them. Their first priority is profit of course, and mobile workstations are expensive, but it's a niche market. Apple is aiming mostly at casual consumers, and I can't see that changing any time soon

 

[The Mercurian]

If you buy the argument that the keyboard failure rate on the rMB is lower, then no, travel and reliability have little correlation. Reliability is correlated to reliability, that's all.

First time I've heard that arugment. And as the owner of an rMB with a slightly failing keyboard I'm forced to disagree

 

[meme1255]

Terraced, round, prismatic, pear-shaped...The shape of the battery is irrelevant. The capacity is the important thing, if you go from 99.5whrs to 75Whrs because you want to say: "See, we made it thinner!!!1!!", then IMHO you are dumb.

It IS relevant. The terraced batteries allow to have higher capacity in the same volume.

 

[ugru]

It IS relevant. The terraced batteries allow to have higher capacity in the same volume.

THE center of the problem here is the will to make a laptop thinner and thinner. If Apple (and others following the fashon) did not reduce the volume of the rMBP they would not have had the need to try tricks like the terraced battery to keep a decent battery life.

And BTW, that news was a single source unconfirmed piece of info, and IMHO it was fake news, since they are using terraced battery in rMB since 2015, I cannot see how they can not in the rMBP.

 

[meme1255]

THE center of the problem here is the will to make a laptop thinner and thinner. If Apple (and others following the fashon) did not reduce the volume of the rMBP they would not have had the need to try tricks like the terraced battery to keep a decent battery life.

And BTW, that news was a single source unconfirmed piece of info, and IMHO it was fake news, since they are using terraced battery in rMB since 2015, I cannot see how they can not in the rMBP.

I can think of several reasons why it is not in MacBook Pro - for instance:

Significantly more thermally coinstrained design together with much higher capacity required.

 

[Ma2k5]

If they don't have a fixed keyboard for 2018, it will be another year of no-go.

Also, I hope there are huge changes for macOS because despite the issues of W10, I find macOS to be pretty lacking nowadays.

 

[Dave245]

If they don't have a fixed keyboard for 2018, it will be another year of no-go.

It depends what you mean by fixed! if your hoping that they remove the butterfly keyboard and put in the old one then i think you will be having a very long wait, if you mean will they improve on it then that might happen, i don't own one but i have seen people's posts saying that the 2017 keyboard is better than the 2016 one.

Altho this "fixed" term sounds like it's broken and that may not be the case, for example how many people have had issues with the keyboard (something we are unlikely to know unfortunately) vs those that don't have any issues. The problem that i've learned over the years, is that you will always see more posts on these kind of forums from people that are unhappy and have had issues than those that are happy and have had no issues.

 

[Ma2k5]

It depends what you mean by fixed! if your hoping that they remove the butterfly keyboard and put in the old one then i think you will be having a very long wait, if you mean will they improve on it then that might happen, i don't own one but i have seen people's posts saying that the 2017 keyboard is better than the 2016 one.

Altho this "fixed" term sounds like it's broken and that may not be the case, for example how many people have had issues with the keyboard (something we are unlikely to know unfortunately) vs those that don't have any issues. The problem that i've learned over the years, is that you will always see more posts on these kind of forums from people that are unhappy and have had issues than those that are happy and have had no issues.

Let’s put it this way, how many people complained about 2014 keyboard/trackpad? I don’t remember even one (I’m sure there may have well been issues but it would be down to QA and not a design issue).

A 2017/18 rMBP with 2014 keyboard/trackpad would be bliss. If you’re wondering why I’m bringing in the trackpad, well it’s too big imo.

As for fix, I don’t expect them to revert back to old keys - but they need to redesign it so it doesn’t not inherit the current issues that plague it. It’s a ticking time bomb. Already not impressed by the soldered SSD.

Saying that, maybe we have come to the point where expecting a laptop to go 5 (potentially even 3) years is just not feasible the way laptop manufacturers are going in general.

 

[BenTrovato]

I thought the new trackpad as ridiculously big.. then you start using it and wonder why wasn't it always this big? Makes sense especially with gestures.

 

[Dave245]

Let’s put it this way, how many people complained about 2014 keyboard/trackpad? I don’t remember even one (I’m sure there may have well been issues but it would be down to QA and not a design issue).

A 2017/18 rMBP with 2014 keyboard/trackpad would be bliss. If you’re wondering why I’m bringing in the trackpad, well it’s too big imo.

As for fix, I don’t expect them to revert back to old keys - but they need to redesign it so it doesn’t not inherit the current issues that plague it. It’s a ticking time bomb. Already not impressed by the soldered SSD.

Saying that, maybe we have come to the point where expecting a laptop to go 5 (potentially even 3) years is just not feasible the way laptop manufacturers are going in general.

I don't know how many issues there have been with the keyboard (Apple probably have the feedback and data) but like i said you will always see people complaining on forums about things, that's not to say there haven't been issues but are they isolated issues? meaning is it a widespread problem for the majority of buyers? i can't speak from experience as i don't own one of the newer MacBook Pro's (i'm still using my 2011 MacBook Pro) until i upgrade.

The trackpad size is more down to personal preference, not everybody is going to like it. I guess we will have to see what Apple do, if they release a major redesign of the keyboard then we know there are issues! As for soldered on SSD's and any other parts i personally don't mind as i buy what i need at the time but again that is personal preference.

 

[socialwill]

I have been following this thread for a while now, mainly just to get an idea of when we might see the 2018 MBP. That said, I have two observations:

1) The keyboard on the current generation of Pros is the biggest issue. Some people like it, lots of people have technical issues, and some just hate it. IF Apple was just to make some changes to the keyboard on the Pro line of Laptops it would go along ways for lots of people.

2) In terms of when the next MBP will come out, no-one really knows Personally my biggest indicator that we will not see anything right away is that there is nothing chip wise that has been announced that would cover the 13" and 15" laptops from an upgrade perspective. Yes, they could just do some spec bumps on the current chip lines, but with nothing major yet from Intel it makes me think we are either a June or fall 2018 launch.

Anyway, just my .002