Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[Hitrate]

So what do you recommend?

It's £270 for the 2.7 i7 over the 2.3 i5 and for the RAM, well I'm quite surprised they're still offering 8GB tbh so that'll always be 16GB for me.

In my opinion, there's only one question on what to max and that's the processor. If the i7 really isn't worth the extra £270 then I'll stick with the base model. I should have said I'm going for 1TB not 2TB. There's no way I'm spending another £800 when I have storage at home.

So, I guess the questions are:

1. Is it really worth going to the i7 from the i5
2. What are the relative options against the Blackmagic eGPU, for £600 what better options are there, considering I'd also use it as my hub for all accessories?

Thanks

1 has so far already been answered, no it’s not “really worth it” look at the Geekbench 4 benchmarks mate. But if u for the cash and are fine with 1tb maybe why not it’ll still hold up better resale wise so you’re not loosing “much” but are you gaining “really much” from going i7 now with the 4 cores ? No

 

[The Mercurian]

I was hoping for around 25k and 5500 on SC, but okay those are doable...

You were expecting 25k seriously ? My threadripper 12 core desktop does 25k. 22k is VERY impressive in a hex core laptop

 

[Hitrate]

You were expecting 25k seriously ? My threadripper 12 core desktop does 25k. 22k is VERY impressive in a hex core laptop

No just a wild wishing guess after I saw the 13” bench and before I saw the 15” bench 22.2k is good

 

[CodeJoy]

I’d love to see how well the 13” iGPU performs, at least the lack of dGPU means one less point of potential failure, and if it runs 4K and stuff without fans kicking I’d be even more tempted for the 13” as I don’t see myself investing in an external dGPU

I saw a benchmark on that this morning. If you're talking games then maybe you get 60% of the performance of the dGPU in the 15". Just as an order of magnitude. Some games may work on lowest settings. For driving a 4k display when you're just moving around windows and stuff, that should be absolutely no problem at all. If I'm reading Intel's specs right then you should be able to drive 3(!) 4k displays with the 13" at 60Hz, but the built-in display may count as one.

 

[AdamA9]

1 has so far already been answered, no it’s not “really worth it” look at the Geekbench 4 benchmarks mate. But if u for the cash and are fine with 1tb maybe why not it’ll still hold up better resale wise so you’re not loosing “much” but are you gaining “really much” from going i7 now with the 4 cores ? No

Yeah I was typing as that other one was answered.

It's a business laptop, so the price isn't really too much of an issue. I keep mine for ~5 years at a time so I want it to last the test of time. My current 2013 is a 1TB as well and I have about 75% used up.

 

[CodeJoy]

So what do you recommend?

It's £270 for the 2.7 i7 over the 2.3 i5 and for the RAM, well I'm quite surprised they're still offering 8GB tbh so that'll always be 16GB for me.

In my opinion, there's only one question on what to max and that's the processor. If the i7 really isn't worth the extra £270 then I'll stick with the base model. I should have said I'm going for 1TB not 2TB. There's no way I'm spending another £800 when I have storage at home.

So, I guess the questions are:

1. Is it really worth going to the i7 from the i5
2. What are the relative options against the Blackmagic eGPU, for £600 what better options are there, considering I'd also use it as my hub for all accessories?

Thanks

I really don't think the i7 upgrade is worth it unless you're getting it for bragging rights or something. For eGPU, not really my field, but the Blackmagic one seems fair considering that it already includes the graphics card. Vega would have been better, but that doesn't appear to be an option from Apple. Not sure if it's supported with any eGPU. But just roughly speaking, with the 580 you'll play any game in 1080p on max settings, and probably most games in 1440p if you're ok with tuning down the settings a bit. Vega would handle 1440p on max and probably 4k with medium settings. Under Windows that is. For compute, I think Vega is more than 2x a 580. Don't know if it's worth the bother though, Blackmagic seems quite good.
[doublepost=1531575456][/doublepost]

No just a wild wishing guess after I saw the 13” bench and before I saw the 15” bench 22.2k is good

Well, you called the increased memory speed. You may soon gain the title of Official Guesser of the Forums.

 

[cool11]

If I learned something from this update, it is that Apple can still surprise us.

Positively: they heard us, it would not be any 'pro' machine anymore, without 32gb ram offer. So, even with a slight effect on battery (which is bigger I think-so it seems ok the whole balance), they choose to make the step.

Negatively: as I read in appleinsider site yesterday, they possibly not changed the keyboard the way they should do it. Minor changes, and not in the core of the problem.

I guess many of us will migrate to the new 'waiting for the 2019 mbp' topic.

 

[jessydmd]

Yeah but which i7 - the 2.2Ghz or the 2.6Ghz ?

The article is about the 13" inch, so there's only a base 2.3Ghz i5 and the upgraded 2.5Ghz i7.

 

[CodeJoy]

If I learned something from this update, it is that Apple can still surprise us.

Positively: they heard us, it would not be any 'pro' machine anymore, without 32gb ram offer. So, even with a slight effect on battery (which is bigger I think-so it seems ok the whole balance), they choose to make the step.

Negatively: as I read in appleinsider site yesterday, they possibly not changed the keyboard the way they should do it. Minor changes, and not in the core of the problem.

I guess many of us will migrate to the new 'waiting for the 2019 mbp' topic.

It's a good update, certainly better than I was expecting. And they did change the keyboard. There's now a skin around the key mechanism. I quite doubt that it's there for sound proofing!! Whether it indeed fixes the issue remains to be seen, but they have changed it for sure.

 

[AdamA9]

I really don't think the i7 upgrade is worth it unless you're getting it for bragging rights or something. For eGPU, not really my field, but the Blackmagic one seems fair considering that it already includes the graphics card. Vega would have been better, but that doesn't appear to be an option from Apple. Not sure if it's supported with any eGPU. But just roughly speaking, with the 580 you'll play any game in 1080p on max settings, and probably most games in 1440p if you're ok with tuning down the settings a bit. Vega would handle 1440p on max and probably 4k with medium settings. Under Windows that is. For compute, I think Vega is more than 2x a 580. Don't know if it's worth the bother though, Blackmagic seems quite good.
[doublepost=1531575456][/doublepost]
Well, you called the increased memory speed. You may soon gain the title of Official Guesser of the Forums.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Just placed my order

 

[Ma2k5]

Thank you. Appreciate it. Just placed my order

For an eGPU option, you can go for the Razer Core X for a cheap alternative and have flexibility with your GPU. This might be the better option, especially as down the line you are able to service/change the GPU, while the BlackMagic is propriety and you won’t be able to change or remove the GPU. This of course means you can get a Vega64 now.

If you require it to also be a docking station (Razer Core X doesn’t have the I/O), there are others on the market such as Razer Core v2, but are pricier. It still might be worth it due to the GPU flexibility imo.

If you really want to get the BlackMagic, maybe wait for them to implement the Vega options?

 

[CodeJoy]

You were expecting 25k seriously ? My threadripper 12 core desktop does 25k. 22k is VERY impressive in a hex core laptop

I've done some testing with geekbench between Windows and macOS on the exact same hardware. The benchmark scores are not comparable between them, neither for CPU nor for graphics/compute.

 

[TheralSadurns]

What computer users who understand the OS's they use dislike, is people who clearly don't understand the OS, needing to blame the provider for their own inadequacies...

Q-6

haha damn... I had to read this sentence like... um... 5 times before I got it. And I agree with you.

You forgot ONE other thing though.

People that say macOS sucks while Windows is great... but at the same time have only REALLY rudamentary knowledge of Windows themselves. So you go there... use their computer for just 1 minute... and they are like "woah woah... what are you doing there!!!" Because they are... in general... completely and utterly clueless. And you wonder why they think their computer or OS is great... if they literally don't do anything with them!

 

[Ma2k5]

haha damn... I had to read this sentence like... um... 5 times before I got it. And I agree with you.

You forgot ONE other thing though.

People that say macOS sucks while Windows is great... but at the same time have only REALLY rudamentary knowledge of Windows themselves. So you go there... use their computer for just 1 minute... and they are like "woah woah... what are you doing there!!!" Because they are... in general... completely and utterly clueless. And you wonder why they think their computer or OS is great... if they literally don't do anything with them!

Similarly, there are people who practically do nothing on macOS, who think its great .

 

[The Mercurian]

I've done some testing with geekbench between Windows and macOS on the exact same hardware. The benchmark scores are not comparable between them, neither for CPU nor for graphics/compute.

Interesting. Did Windows or Mac score higher - or its not that predictable ?

 

[CodeJoy]

Similarly, there are people who practically do nothing on macOS, who think its great .

There are people who do nothing and think it's great, no OS involved at all ;-)
[doublepost=1531577001][/doublepost]

Interesting. Did Windows or Mac score higher - or its not that predictable ?

Mac scoring ~20% higher for CPU, Windows scoring ~20% higher for GPU. I don't know why this happens. Seems too much to be OS overhead. And I haven't tested it enough to know if it's predictable over a wide range of hardware.

 

[AdamA9]

For an eGPU option, you can go for the Razer Core X for a cheap alternative and have flexibility with your GPU. This might be the better option, especially as down the line you are able to service/change the GPU, while the BlackMagic is propriety and you won’t be able to change or remove the GPU. This of course means you can get a Vega64 now.

If you require it to also be a docking station (Razer Core X doesn’t have the I/O), there are others on the market such as Razer Core v2, but are pricier. It still might be worth it due to the GPU flexibility imo.

If you really want to get the BlackMagic, maybe wait for them to implement the Vega options?

I just checked out the Core v2, and it's still over £100 cheaper than the Blackmagic.

Edit: that's just the cost of the case. Okay, Blackmagic might be the option for now...

 

[EugW]

Mac scoring ~20% higher for CPU, Windows scoring ~20% higher for GPU. I don't know why this happens. Seems too much to be OS overhead. And I haven't tested it enough to know if it's predictable over a wide range of hardware.

What machine are you talking about? Some Apple laptops use TDP up, which would explain higher CPU scores. Furthermore, Apple doesn't have the same GPU SKUs as Windows machines, with Apple's SKUs often using effectively a TDP down slightly lower clocked version.

However, when I tested my iMac Core i7-7700K in Geekbench 4, my scores were identical to Windows machines. The scores that were a bit faster were on Linux.

 

[Minxy]

I have been trying to decide whether to get the MBP 13" with 16GB ram and 512GB SSD or the base 15" model. The 13" has a much more compact form factor and is roughly £500 less but I don't know if it will be good enough for editing 4K without driving me mad by being too slow.

But I think i'm almost decided. I can get the 13" and then if my needs increase I can buy the BlackMagic for roughly the same price as the 15" price difference. We'll see!

Will the 13" be powerful enough to work on an ultra wide monitor?

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

I really don't think the i7 upgrade is worth it unless you're getting it for bragging rights or something. For eGPU, not really my field, but the Blackmagic one seems fair considering that it already includes the graphics card. Vega would have been better, but that doesn't appear to be an option from Apple. Not sure if it's supported with any eGPU. But just roughly speaking, with the 580 you'll play any game in 1080p on max settings, and probably most games in 1440p if you're ok with tuning down the settings a bit. Vega would handle 1440p on max and probably 4k with medium settings. Under Windows that is. For compute, I think Vega is more than 2x a 580. Don't know if it's worth the bother though, Blackmagic seems quite good.
[doublepost=1531575456][/doublepost]
Well, you called the increased memory speed. You may soon gain the title of Official Guesser of the Forums.

Regarding the eGPU, don't bother with the overpriced Blackmagic. Those considering an eGPU, get yourself the Razer Core X wherein you can select and then in the future upgrade your GPU. Made specifically for the Razer laptops but works well too with Macs.

 

[wallysb01]

No just a wild wishing guess after I saw the 13” bench and before I saw the 15” bench 22.2k is good

Some machines are definitely hitting the 5.5k/25k range: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/9006491

In fact, the median of what's up right now: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?dir=desc&q=i9-8950HK+mac&sort=multicore_score, is 5450K single, 22100K multi. Somehow this single core score is a bit below the norm.

I'm wondering if there is some throttling going on for people that might be trying benchmark after benchmark or if its silicon lottery.

 

[Minxy]

Regarding the eGPU, don't bother with the overpriced Blackmagic. Those considering an eGPU, get yourself the Razer Core X wherein you can select and then in the future upgrade your GPU. Made specifically for the Razer laptops but works well too with Macs.

Thanks for the advice. If that has an Nvidia card is there full compatibility with Mac OS and will Final Cut be able to use it? I also read that only the BlackMagic eGPU uses the Thunderbolt connection but others use HDMI, why does this matter?

 

[CodeJoy]

What machine are you talking about? Some Apple laptops use TDP up, which would explain higher CPU scores. Furthermore, Apple doesn't have the same GPU SKUs as Windows machines, with Apple's SKUs often using effectively a TDP down slightly lower clocked version.

However, when I tested my iMac Core i7-7700K in Geekbench 4, my scores were identical to Windows machines. The scores that were a bit faster were on Linux.

Well, I just tested it on my current box (overclocked 8700K). GB4 under macOS ~30K, reboot and run GB4 under Windows ~25K (no other apps running on either). I know I've seen differences in the past on other machines too, but I forget the details.

I haven't tested this enough to know if it's always like this, I just know it shows to be careful when evaluating benchmark results. The benchmarks above indicated that the 6-core i9 would be almost as fast as a TR 1920X for multithreaded workloads, and I think we all know that that's not the case.
[doublepost=1531594246][/doublepost]

I have been trying to decide whether to get the MBP 13" with 16GB ram and 512GB SSD or the base 15" model. The 13" has a much more compact form factor and is roughly £500 less but I don't know if it will be good enough for editing 4K without driving me mad by being too slow.

But I think i'm almost decided. I can get the 13" and then if my needs increase I can buy the BlackMagic for roughly the same price as the 15" price difference. We'll see!

Will the 13" be powerful enough to work on an ultra wide monitor?

Yes, the 13" will be powerful enough.
[doublepost=1531594430][/doublepost]

Thanks for the advice. If that has an Nvidia card is there full compatibility with Mac OS and will Final Cut be able to use it? I also read that only the BlackMagic eGPU uses the Thunderbolt connection but others use HDMI, why does this matter?

I don't think FCPX can benefit from Nvidia cards. They are also not officially supported, but it's possible that you can get them to work anyway. Thunderbolt connection matters if you have a TB3 monitor or peripherals.
[doublepost=1531594750][/doublepost]

Regarding the eGPU, don't bother with the overpriced Blackmagic. Those considering an eGPU, get yourself the Razer Core X wherein you can select and then in the future upgrade your GPU. Made specifically for the Razer laptops but works well too with Macs.

Razer core ~$500, 580 ~$250 => $750 in total, Blackmagic including 580 ~$700. How is it overpriced? Also remember Razer Core and other enclosures are not always available in all countries.

 

[Ma2k5]

@CodeJoy

Individually you are correct the BlackMagic comes out cheaper. Saying that, the BlackMagic is propiety and non-upgradable, so maybe it would have been more palatable at a price of ~$500-$600 (seeing as GPU retail is $250 so for them a lot cheaper?).

There are also alternatives to Razer Core, some more expensive and also cheaper.

BlackMagics appeal is it’s all in one plug and be play solution I guess. One would have hoped as a result it could have been cheaper.

 

[CodeJoy]

@CodeJoy

Individually you are correct the BlackMagic comes out cheaper. Saying that, the BlackMagic is propiety and non-upgradable, so maybe it would have been more palatable at a price of ~$500-$600 (seeing as GPU retail is $250 so for them a lot cheaper?).

There are also alternatives to Razer Core, some more expensive and also cheaper.

BlackMagics appeal is it’s all in one plug and be play solution I guess. One would have hoped as a result it could have been cheaper.

Well, for you and me maybe. I think the appeal of the Blackmagic box (for many) is that it's super simple and a fully packaged solution. No need to hunt for a compatible RX 580, no need to wait for parts from potentially different vendors and different delivery times, nothing to install when the parts arrive, with the Blackmagic you just plug it in and go. I can see the appeal of that, and it seems like a fair price (by Apple standards even more so). It's not what I would personally choose, but I wouldn't get an eGPU to begin with. It can still be a reasonable choice for someone else.