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Waiting for the 2018 MBP

The Mercurian said:
Well, I think you are dismissing the issue to easily. Apple are charging top dollar for upgrades. And I would not expect the average user to know enough to be wary about throttling. Certainly, if the i9 is performing lower than the i7 under sustained load I find it kind of outrageous that they want hundreds of dollars for the upgrade.
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Well, I don't intend to dismiss the issues really. Both are real problems and both need to be addressed by Apple. However, my old risk manager habits kicked in here I guess. I view risk as frequency of events and the impact of events. In this case the frequency is potentially low to medium, and the impact is probably low to medium. That makes it a low to medium severity issue in my mind. Super simplified of course, but I can't really do much more detail here. But in the context of things, overheating power supplies, swelling or exploding batteries, antennagate, GPU-gate etc, they would all be higher severity issues in my mind.
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Queen6 said:
Same mind, and don't think it's unreasonable to have the advertised performance. Crux of the matter is the notebooks are simply too thin to allow the new hex core CPU's, to fully strech their legs, which for some ruins the biggest update to the MBP since 2012.

If we're lucky Apple will issue a firmware update to address the fans. Potentially the power limits, equally as the hex core CPU's boost higher the power demand can be more than double...
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If they had released the new MBPs with a new fan profile already implemented, then we would probably not even be having this discussion. That's of course what they should have done, and I think everyone except possibly Apple agrees with that. I can't understand or defend a mistake like that, but I also realise that if I'm going to overreact to every dumb thing that happens in the world I'm going to go insane. Or even every dumb thing that Apple does...
 
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CodeJoy said:
Well, I don't intend to dismiss the issues really. Both are real problems and both need to be addressed by Apple. However, my old risk manager habits kicked in here I guess. I view risk as frequency of events and the impact of events. In this case the frequency is potentially low to medium, and the impact is probably low to medium. That makes it a low to medium severity issue in my mind. Super simplified of course, but I can't really do much more detail here. But in the context of things, overheating power supplies, swelling or exploding batteries, antennagate, GPU-gate etc, they would all be higher severity issues in my mind.
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If they had released the new MBPs with a new fan profile already implemented, then we would probably not even be having this discussion. That's of course what they should have done, and I think everyone except possibly Apple agrees with that. I can't understand or defend a mistake like that, but I also realise that if I'm going to overreact to every dumb thing that happens in the world I'm going to go insane. Or even every dumb thing that Apple does...
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My W10 primary has performance & fan profiles: Silent minimises fan noise and reduces CPU performance, under low loads the fans will even shutdown completely. Balanced speaks for itself, with CPU & GPU allowed full power, and Overboost mildly over clocking the GPU, fans can now spool upto the max 6K

In many respects it would make sense for the MBP to have say economy & performance profiles. As running hot and quiet looks to kill performance and not all require that performance 24/7 or care for additional fan noise.

Q-6
 
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Queen6 said:
My W10 primary has performance & fan profiles: Silent minimises fan noise and reduces CPU performance, under low loads the fans will even shutdown completely. Balanced speaks for itself, with CPU & GPU allowed full power, and Overboost mildly over clocking the GPU, fans can now spool upto the max 6K

In many respects it would make sense for the MBP to have say economy & performance profiles. As running hot and quiet looks to kill performance and not all require that performance 24/7 or care for additional fan noise.
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Ideally, it should actually learn from how you use the laptop and adjust the fan profile(s) accordingly without any need to set profiles. For a company with fairly significant machine learning resources, this doesn't seem like such a difficult thing to achieve. Not sure this will happen though. We may have to start building our own computers if we want to get things done right ;-)
 
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maflynn said:
Seriously, and why not use external drives.

For instance, this youtuber who's an uber apple fan did an unboxing of her 2018 MBP with 4TB. She then went on how she uses large capacity external drives because she works on her iMac and MBP. So all of her projects are on the external drive. Why in the world did she buy the 4TB if she works on external drives - maybe I misunderstood her, but that made no sense to me
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Please, don’t take anything Justine says as legit. Justine is just an fanatic who has no value for anything she buys. She buys about 15 computers a year. She is contradicting herself because in other videos she said she barely uses her MacBook for editing and if she does she will export it back to her iMac,and then in another video she shows off her new surface studio. She doesn’t even review them, she just opens them and buys the next thing. I can’t believe some people think she is a reviewer.
 
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maflynn said:
There's a 13" i5 thread that seems to indicate you may not have dodged a bullet. I can't say for sure, since I'm paying more attention to the 15" laptop since that's what I ordered.
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Sorry, what I meant was that I was going to max out the 15 for the i9 and I'm glad I didn't. This 13 seems fine for me though, it's nice and nippy and I love this keyboard. Only been using it for about half an hour and already going back to my 2013 is weird to me now.
 
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My 15-inch was scheduled by Apple to arrive between July 24-26, but it looks like it’s changed for tomorrow!! I’m so excited.. but I’m getting paranoid because it’s been under “shipment information received” for 10 hours and it’s still in Holland. It’s with DHL. It was my biggest nightmare. Apple has a pattern of shipping the headphones, pencils, and all sort of gadgets with TNT which is so fast and up to date, but their macs and iPads always gets delivered through DHL. They NEVER update their track n trace.
 
If the keyboard problem was on a Dell, it wouldn't have been as big of a problem since Dell makes several models. Apple, however only sells one model and there's a good chance that there will be some flaw they overlooked.
 
linkgx1 said:
If the keyboard problem was on a Dell, it wouldn't have been as big of a problem since Dell makes several models. Apple, however only sells one model and there's a good chance that there will be some flaw they overlooked.
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I have to disagree, because people buy a model that meets the need and if the XPS 15" had a bad keyboard design, it would have been a very big thing for Dell, because people are not willing to buy an Inspiron 15" or Lattitude.
 
TinaBelcher said:
Justine is just an fanatic
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Oh I know, but I still enjoy the mac videos. She's surprisingly positive on the MS Surface products. I recall Steve Jobs getting a restraining order on her, she's kind of extreme in that way.
 
I finally broke and got a new maxed out 13” MBP (only 1TB SSD though). My 2012 just can’t do video editing anymore. I was trying to wait for an iMac since I have an iPad Pro but I couldn’t go any longer. I realize now though that my iPad can work as a mobile dual monitor and at home monitors are surprisingly cheap now!
 
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ShawnBoucke said:
I finally broke and got a new maxed out 13” MBP (only 1TB SSD though). My 2012 just can’t do video editing anymore. I was trying to wait for an iMac since I have an iPad Pro but I couldn’t go any longer. I realize now though that my iPad can work as a mobile dual monitor and at home monitors are surprisingly cheap now!
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I have the same spec. It's a lovely machine. Enjoy!
 
maflynn said:
"only" a 1 TB drive - yowza, that's a big honkin drive. I think many of us could use a 1TB but the $$ apple charges pushes out of affordability

Congrats on your new baby :)
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Thank you. I do video editing and don't like keeping things external. I got used to a larger drive and was fearful a SSD would make things too complicated. I've avoided them until now as the price is finally a bit more affordable.
 
I'm just curious of two things:

1. What if Apple went back with a thicker chassis…2012 or 2014? Would it still suffer the same throttling issues of the i9 demostrated in the YouTube video? Would it help if they added a CPU fan on top of it?

2. I wonder why Apple didn't upgrade the 13" non-touch with 32GB RAM, added 2 more thunderbolt ports, or quad-core i7 yet?


Sidenote: I've heard shoving your maxed out i9 MBP15 in the freezer, but I never thought it would come down to that. Someone actually shoved their MBP15 in an industrial-grade freezer and it went much faster.
 
TRDGT4Writer said:
I'm just curious of two things:

1. What if Apple went back with a thicker chassis…2012 or 2014? Would it still suffer the same throttling issues of the i9 demostrated in the YouTube video? Would it help if they added a CPU fan on top of it?

2. I wonder why Apple didn't upgrade the 13" non-touch with 32GB RAM, added 2 more thunderbolt ports, or quad-core i7 yet?


Sidenote: I've heard shoving your maxed out i9 MBP15 in the freezer, but I never thought it would come down to that. Someone actually shoved their MBP15 in an industrial-grade freezer and it went much faster.
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Considering how thick gaming machines that really let the i9 shine are I doubt going back to the 2012-2015 chassis would make a jot of difference. Indeed Apple were able to make the 2016- machines with better cooling despite being smaller. The 2008-2012 style - arguably yes there’s room in there similar to a modern gaming PC, but the trade off is obvious, it’s much thicker and heavier and therefore less portable. That’s not to say Apple shouldn’t make such a machine, just to note it goes against their design ethos.

I can see the ntb machine being quietly discontinued when they unveil the supposed MacBook Air replacement (13” MacBook?) maybe that’s why there was no update - it wasn’t worth it for a product on sale for just a couple more months?
 
maflynn said:
Because Apple wants you to buy the more expensive model pure and simple
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It’s probably simpler than that. Since Intel hasn’t yet released the 8th generation of the 15W CPUs the 13” nTB uses, Apple can’t release an update.

But even when the CPUs are available, Apple may not update the 13” nTB. Many think it’ll be discontinued altogether in favor of some different model coming later this year.
 
maflynn said:
No, I think its specifically that apple wants the consumer to further embrace the Touch Bar.
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I wonder how that's going. Currently using a 2018 MacBook Pro, 13 inch. My wife's first reaction upon seeing it (the Touch Bar): what's that thing. I don't like it. Where are the keys?

She's an apple fan through and through, but she also just wants technology to work and get out of her way. I don't mind the touchbar, occasionally it's useful and touchid is really nice. Still, it introduces another layer of interaction between you and the computer and I don't think most classic Mac users are really into that.
 
PickUrPoison said:
So the reason Apple hasn’t upgraded the nTB to CPUs that don’t exist is because they’re pushing the touch bar?
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There are plenty of CPU options, there's no reason why apple is forced to use the 15w variant. They're specifically made it slower last generation and they've yet to upgrade it this generation for the simple reason of pushing people to the higher priced models.
 
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maflynn said:
There are plenty of CPU options, there's no reason why apple is forced to use the 15w variant. They're specifically made it slower last generation and they've yet to upgrade it this generation for the simple reason of pushing people to the higher priced models.
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I’m not sure what your point is. Like all computer makers, Apple offers better performance at higher price points. Those who don’t need the higher performance don’t buy it. But if you want it, you’re going to have to pay for it.

Base model MBP prices:

$1,299 nTB
13” 15W CPU, iGPU
8GB/128GB
Two TB3 ports

$1,799 TB
13” 28W CPU, iGPU
8GB/256GB
Four TB3 ports

$2,399 TB
15” 45W hexa-core, Radeon GPU
16GB/256GB
Four TB3


If your point is Apple should be giving the performance of the $1,799 machine for $1,299, this is just another “Macs are overpriced” complaint. I’ve heard that for 25 years and it’s nothing new. I’m sure some want the $2,399 hexa-core for $1,799.

Plenty of users—the vast majority in fact, as evidenced by the Mac average selling price being $1,435—are buying lower-priced models. They simply haven’t been pushed into higher-priced models, merely because they’re available.
 
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PickUrPoison said:
I’m not sure what your point is. Like all computer makers, Apple offers better performance at higher price points. Those who don’t need the higher performance don’t buy it. But if you want it, you’re going to have to pay for it.

Base model MBP prices:

$1,299 nTB
13” 15W CPU, iGPU
Two TB3 ports

$1,799 TB
13” 28W CPU, iGPU
Four TB3 ports

$2,399 TB
15” 45W hexa-core, Radeon GPU
Four TB3


If your point is Apple should be giving the performance of the $1,799 machine for $1,299, this is just another “Macs are overpriced” complaint. I’ve heard that for 25 years and it’s nothing new. I’m sure some want the $2,399 hexa-core for $1,799.

Plenty of users—the vast majority in fact, as evidenced by the Mac average selling price being $1,435—are buying lower-priced models. They simply haven’t been pushed into higher-priced models, merely because they’re available.
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I don’t think that’s what he was saying at all. I’m not certain about the specific upgrades to the chips used in the ntb, but there’s options Apple could have used, none of which would necessarily have cost them more to implement. There’s definitely 15W chips with UHD graphics available (8350U) pushing only 4m pixels on screen that should still offer adequate performance. Considering they offered the previous gen (2015) MacBook Pro at $1,299 with a 28W CPU I don’t see why this one should be different anyway, the touch bar certainly didn’t cost them $500 per machine to implement :rolleyes:
 
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