Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[The Reasonable One]

USB-C may be the future (maybe? perhaps? Remember that's what they said about Firewire too, not that long ago -- "Most awesome thing in the world!!"), but I work in the present, not the future. And the present needs are few to no USB-C, but lots of other connections. Declarations proclaiming the "obsolescence" of things are attempts at a fait accompli for someone else's benefit, not really yours (or mine). *I* will decide when something is "obsolete," not someone else -- and that is what computing is supposed to be about: providing you the tools to do what you want *how you want to do it*.
Apple (Computers) used to understand that. Not any more apparently. Ultimately that will come back to bite them hard.

Just a quick point: you say that only you decide when things are obsolete, right? Mr. Smirking was just saying that for his world, USB-C is becoming obsolete. Based on your earlier statement, it wouldn't be right to say that his reality is false. And I might add, that for the vast majority of people out there with a different job than yours are in Smirking's reality. The point is, not everyone is in your reality. Not everyone has the job you have. Your job relies on venues that can't update their hardware as fast as a consumer, that's completely understandable, but you have to realize that not everyone has to plug into someone else's equipment. That's not how most jobs work. You usually work with your own or your company's equipment and have the ability update said equipment at a better pace. The world will change, that's for sure. But your industry just might change later. Due to that, your right. For your industry, USB-A will not be obsolete for some time. But you have to acknowledge that reality in terms of computing needs is largely subjective.
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Definitely, My 2012 rMBP is still doing well, after my up and coming trip, I'll be scheduling some time with Apple to replace its battery. That way I can squeeze a little more life out of the old girl. In your case I would expect it to last beyond 2019

Just curious @maflynn , how much battery life are you getting out of your 2012 15"? I've got one too and am curious if mine is doing better than most or worse. I get about 4-5 hours web browsing and way less with the CLion IDE open.


Also, if any of you coders have a good IDE or text editor I can try (for C++/C) please let me know. I'm trying everything to see what I like (New CS major). I'm open to anything, even paid (I'll try to find student edition). Thanks

 

[TheralSadurns]

Also, if any of you coders have a good IDE or text editor I can try (for C++/C) please let me know. I'm trying everything to see what I like (New CS major). I'm open to anything, even paid (I'll try to find student edition). Thanks

I generally use BBEdit and Visual Studio Code.
BBEDIT is free unless you want advanced features. Visual Studio Code is free.

Other people also use Sublime Text, but I never really warmed up to it...YMMV tho.

 

[The Reasonable One]

I generally use BBEdit and Visual Studio Code.
BBEDIT is free unless you want advanced features. Visual Studio Code is free.

Other people also use Sublime Text, but I never really warmed up to it...YMMV tho.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've never heard of BBEDIT, but now that Visual Studio is coming to Mac I'll probably give it a try. CLion has been pretty nice so far, but I haven't been using most of its advanced features. I'm just a fan of its auto formatting (indenting stuff in my use), and its ease of use. Sublime was too much of a pain, especially when I tried to add plugins or whatever they call them. That fiasco broke it to the point where nothing would compile. But again, that's probably user error more than anything.

 

[TheralSadurns]

Thanks for the suggestions. I've never heard of BBEDIT, but now that Visual Studio is coming to Mac I'll probably give it a try. CLion has been pretty nice so far, but I haven't been using most of its advanced features. I'm just a fan of its auto formatting (indenting stuff in my use), and its ease of use. Sublime was too much of a pain, especially when I tried to add plugins or whatever they call them. That fiasco broke it to the point where nothing would compile. But again, that's probably user error more than anything.

Just to be clear: I'm not (just) talking about the full Visual Studio which is only out for a couple of weeks!

A year or so ago... Microsoft released a stand alone text and code editor (not a whole suite) called "Visual Studio Code". It's pretty light weight but still powerful. I mean... go ahead and get the whole Visual Studio Suite

But if all you crave is a nice editor... it's Visual Studio Code.

 

[The Reasonable One]

Just to be clear: I'm not (just) talking about the full Visual Studio which is only out for a couple of weeks!

A year or so ago... Microsoft released a stand alone text and code editor (not a whole suite) called "Visual Studio Code". It's pretty light weight but still powerful. I mean... go ahead and get the whole Visual Studio Suite

But if all you crave is a nice editor... it's Visual Studio Code.

Thanks, I'm going for the suite because I'm working in collaboration with some people on a game and the suite seems (I think) to be the best way to get the team stuff. As stupid as it sounds, I'm treating this as a way to see how real developers work on code in collaboration with each other even at great distance (we all live too far from each other to collaborate in person). Now just gotta learn Git

EDIT: Plus it seems like the suite is newbie friendly. Most text editors I've seen are too pro oriented and lack that ease of use that I need right now.

 

[Tanax]

Personally, with TB3 and the announced support for external GPUs I don't think further graphical power is required. What would be nice in a 2018 MBP though is support for quad-core CPUs in the 13". Would make for a very nice powerhouse in a neat package!

Faster internal screen would be nice but not a show-stopper for me.

Haptic feedback on TouchBar would be nice as well as 1080p webcam.

DDR4 memory of course.

Better battery life would be welcomed as always!

 

[The Reasonable One]

Personally, with TB3 and the announced support for external GPUs I don't think further graphical power is required. What would be nice in a 2018 MBP though is support for quad-core CPUs in the 13". Would make for a very nice powerhouse in a neat package!

Faster internal screen would be nice but not a show-stopper for me.

Haptic feedback on TouchBar would be nice as well as 1080p webcam.

DDR4 memory of course.

Better battery life would be welcomed as always!

The issue people in video editing and stuff like that have with less powerful GPU's is that they want a powerful mobile computer. An eGPU is not mobile at all unless transporting by car. It isn't super easy to transport them in a backpack.

But for my uses, I'd agree on the not needing a better GPU thing. I'd like it to be able to game, but I've got a desktop for that so no need.

 

[smirking]

Mr. Smirking was just saying that for his world, USB-C is becoming obsolete.

I think you meant USB-A. That's the traditional rectangular headed USB port. Well, it's not that I think USB-A type of devices are becoming obsolete and they won't even if USB-C completely takes over because it only takes a simple $5 to convert any USB-A plug into a USB-C plug. They're compatible and play so nicely together that it's not really correct to say that USB-C is replacing USB-A. If anything, USB-C is guaranteeing the lifespan of all older USB based devices because it's a reasonable bet that all all of those devices will continue to work without hassle for the foreseeable future... but you just might have to do it through an adapter hub or a simple $5 adapter.

 

[maflynn]

I get about 4-5 hours web browsing and way less with the CLion IDE open.

I'm down to the 4 hour range, maybe I can squeeze 5 hours but its more likely to last 3 - 4

 

[The Reasonable One]

I think you meant USB-A. That's the traditional rectangular headed USB port. Well, it's not that I think USB-A type of devices are becoming obsolete and they won't even if USB-C completely takes over because it only takes a simple $5 to convert any USB-A plug into a USB-C plug. They're compatible and play so nicely together that it's not really correct to say that USB-C is replacing USB-A. If anything, USB-C is guaranteeing the lifespan of all older USB based devices because it's a reasonable bet that all all of those devices will continue to work without hassle for the foreseeable future... but you just might have to do it through an adapter hub or a simple $5 adapter.

Yah I did lol. My bad. I know what they look like, I'm tech savvy, but alas typos are a *****. The point I was trying to make is that USB-C adequately replaces every connector we commonly use through dongles, except the person I was quoting and other people in his field because they rely on equipment that is not their own.
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I'm down to the 4 hour range, maybe I can squeeze 5 hours but its more likely to last 3 - 4

I just realized why I'm getting so much battery life. When my heat sink failed Apple replaced a bunch of my components (upgrading my RAM to 16 GB as well) and I think that included the battery, but I'm not sure. I was having some pretty freaky ghosting where leaving a white window like a website open would stay on screen for 10 minutes after I moved the window. Took 3 months to get them to fix it and I got a better computer as a result, so not complaining.

 

[maflynn]

Took 3 months to get them to fix it and I got a better computer as a result, so not complaining.

Understood. I'm thinking of spending the 200 - 300 dollars for a new battery and that might buy me a couple of more years.

 

[Tanax]

The issue people in video editing and stuff like that have with less powerful GPU's is that they want a powerful mobile computer. An eGPU is not mobile at all unless transporting by car. It isn't super easy to transport them in a backpack.

But for my uses, I'd agree on the not needing a better GPU thing. I'd like it to be able to game, but I've got a desktop for that so no need.

Totally get your point. I was mainly talking about the 13" model
Better iGPU will of course be "included" in almost every refresh due to Intel's improvements with every generation.

For the 15" is a different story, it has dGPU so it should be fine for portable video editing. But I think every video editing professional is well aware of that it can never replace a stationary workstation like the iMac/Mac Pro or the upcoming iMac Pro

A mobile computer is always just that, a mobile computer. It will never be as good as a desktop.

 

[smirking]

The point I was trying to make is that USB-C adequately replaces every connector we commonly use through dongles, except the person I was quoting and other people in his field because they rely on equipment that is not their own.

I often have to rely on other people's equipment as well. I work freelance so I visit people's offices all the time and I typically carry numerous adapters with me... and I've always had to carry numerous adapters with me. Nothing really changed except for the head on the adapters that I have to use and perhaps that's why the only port that I'm really upset about losing is the SD Card. It was the only port I had that needed no augmentation for me to get my job done.

 

[Jethro!]

Honestly I understand your pain, but the reality is that most Professional fields (obviously not the one your in) deal with people using their own hardware. Most Pro's in most fields don't have to worry about the hardware of the venue, so with the exception of the ethernet adapter when used with router and SD card slot, you can just attach an adapter to the end of your cable and be fine (not you personally but most users). Even the ethernet adapter is most likely sitting at a desk waiting for the user to dock their mac and plug it in and is most likely going to be attached to their ethernet cable. The only thing I'll miss, and I'm not a pro photographer by any means, is the SD card slot and the fact that the sheer number of ports is reduced so I'll occasionally need a hub. I also haven't used an optical drive since 2011. All the stuff that used to be on CD's is now digital and my car accepts audio through USB from my phone.

Just so we're clear though, I completely understand that for your field those ports make your life easier, but in most people's use cases, I don't think the dongle situation is all that bad. I could be wrong though. I just feel like most people use their hardware at a desk, so there shouldn't be that much of a problem. And the things they can move from the desk like drives can add a dongle on the end and be fine. It's a pain in the ass to get started, but once you've dongled up it should be no problem.

I'm fine if Apple wants to make their "thinnest/lightest/featheriest/unconnectedness" computer and put it on front page of their website. Ok Apple, brag about your "innovation". But they should also make a "Super Mac" that keeps all the standard connectivity, but upgrades the graphics, display, memory and processors to the latest. I also want to be able to pop in a Blu-Ray BDXL disc so I can archive and easily transfer massive session files. I don't care if it's the "smallest/wispiest Mac ever", because it doesn't matter. Apple would sell a ton of these. Probably enough to cut into their fashion statement MB "Pros" which would be embarrassing to the Apple ego. Which is what it seems to be what Apple culture is really afriad about -- people rejecting doing it the "Apple way" in favor of their own way. Oh, the humanity!
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Just a quick point: you say that only you decide when things are obsolete, right? Mr. Smirking was just saying that for his world, USB-C is becoming obsolete. Based on your earlier statement, it wouldn't be right to say that his reality is false. And I might add, that for the vast majority of people out there with a different job than yours are in Smirking's reality. The point is, not everyone is in your reality. Not everyone has the job you have. Your job relies on venues that can't update their hardware as fast as a consumer, that's completely understandable, but you have to realize that not everyone has to plug into someone else's equipment. That's not how most jobs work. You usually work with your own or your company's equipment and have the ability update said equipment at a better pace. The world will change, that's for sure. But your industry just might change later. Due to that, your right. For your industry, USB-A will not be obsolete for some time. But you have to acknowledge that reality in terms of computing needs is largely subjective.

Of course there are different needs and some people want to live on the bleeding edge for the sake of living on the bleeding edge, and think that everything else is "antique" (which indicates to me that they're a "victim of marketing," but that's another story…) For them, fine let them get the latest, shiniest toy Apple says you need today (though tomorrow is a different story). However, for others who have practical needs and who see no need to jump just because Apple says so, there should be a real "pro" line of computers. Thing is, Apple used to understand this. Now they don't, or worse, understand but don't care. They could be heroes by following this dual track, but so far they're not. If they don't fix it FAST they're gonna lose their long time pro base for good (I'm not the only one saying this); that will leave them with the iToy market, which they dominate now, but is a very fickle crowd. When Apple iToys lose their luster they'll ditch them in a heartbeat. So who will be left then?

 

[maflynn]

I just purchased an iPad Pro, which basically pushed my laptop purchase decision to 2018. At this stage, I don't see any reason to buy the 2017 model. I think if if the keyboard had less negativity surrounding it, I may have been more willing to spend the money. As it stands, I'm giving Apple more time to improve the durability and/or quality of the keyboard.

 

[Jethro!]

I just purchased an iPad Pro, which basically pushed my laptop purchase decision to 2018. At this stage, I don't see any reason to buy the 2017 model. I think if if the keyboard had less negativity surrounding it, I may have been more willing to spend the money. As it stands, I'm giving Apple more time to improve the durability and/or quality of the keyboard.

Are you talking about the "butterfly" keyboard? If so, I agree. Tried it and found the experience bad. They had a great feel before, but apparently they changed it in pursuit of even more "thinness". Another strike against the new MB "Pro".

 

[Azl]

I'm fine if Apple wants to make their "thinnest/lightest/featheriest/unconnectedness" computer and put it on front page of their website. Ok Apple, brag about your "innovation". But they should also make a "Super Mac" that keeps all the standard connectivity, but upgrades the graphics, display, memory and processors to the latest. I also want to be able to pop in a Blu-Ray BDXL disc so I can archive and easily transfer massive session files. I don't care if it's the "smallest/wispiest Mac ever", because it doesn't matter. Apple would sell a ton of these. Probably enough to cut into their fashion statement MB "Pros" which would be embarrassing to the Apple ego. Which is what it seems to be what Apple culture is really afriad about -- people rejecting doing it the "Apple way" in favor of their own way. Oh, the humanity!
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Of course there are different needs and some people want to live on the bleeding edge for the sake of living on the bleeding edge, and think that everything else is "antique" (which indicates to me that they're a "victim of marketing," but that's another story…) For them, fine let them get the latest, shiniest toy Apple says you need today (though tomorrow is a different story). However, for others who have practical needs and who see no need to jump just because Apple says so, there should be a real "pro" line of computers. Thing is, Apple used to understand this. Now they don't, or worse, understand but don't care. They could be heroes by following this dual track, but so far they're not. If they don't fix it FAST they're gonna lose their long time pro base for good (I'm not the only one saying this); that will leave them with the iToy market, which they dominate now, but is a very fickle crowd. When Apple iToys lose their luster they'll ditch them in a heartbeat. So who will be left then?

What exactly is the problem with getting a few adapters/external bd drive?

I honestly don't get it.

No, not problem solved. Actual PROS need a variety of ports. e.g. Just a few weeks ago for a live performance using my 2010 MBP I used the 1) Mini Display port to project synchronized video onto a giant screen in HD -- plugged directly into the venue's video system. No adapter needed. 2) Firewire port into a NEW audio interface box to route multiple audio signals. No adapter needed. 3) Used the "standard" USB connections to move files around via USB thumb drives. No adapter needed. 4) Used the ethernet port to connect to and program a WiFi extender. No adapter needed. 5) Used the SD slot to import pics from an actual, real CAMERA. No adapter needed. 6) Used the CD/DVD drive to create a test mix disc to play on a boom box/in the car. No adapter needed.

You could actually do all that over one tb3 port - at once, and you get four.

 

[MuGeN PoWeR]

I just purchased an iPad Pro, which basically pushed my laptop purchase decision to 2018. At this stage, I don't see any reason to buy the 2017 model. I think if if the keyboard had less negativity surrounding it, I may have been more willing to spend the money. As it stands, I'm giving Apple more time to improve the durability and/or quality of the keyboard.

i am in the same boat and deciding whether i should return the iPad pro and get teh 2017 rMBP or not :/

 

[Jethro!]

What exactly is the problem with getting a few adapters/external bd drive?

I honestly don't get it.

It's the other way around. What's the problem with making a "Super Mac Pro" that has all the ports commonly in use, plus a couple of the brand new ones? It's not like Apple is hard up for money.

As for your question, which dongles should I get and how do you know? And what happens if I forget to bring them with me? And what if I have no desire to carry around a bunch of dongles that I previously didn't need? See, that's the thing… Apple is removing functionality (for "thinness" -- something pros don't really care about), selling folks a **** sandwich. And people are buying. (some people)

I honestly don't get it.

You could actually do all that over one tb3 port - at once, and you get four.

How? With dongle HELL? I already got something that WORKS better than its successor...

 

[The Mercurian]

Understood. I'm thinking of spending the 200 - 300 dollars for a new battery and that might buy me a couple of more years.

Had to spend €80 on new charging cable after mangling it under a chair recently

 

[CmdrLaForge]

In 2013 I payed 2450€ for my 13" with 1 TB SSD and 16 GB Ram. The same machine cost today 3100€.

 

[The Mercurian]

In 2013 I payed 2450€ for my 13" with 1 TB SSD and 16 GB Ram. The same machine cost today 3100€.

Yeah the price in € is gone bonkers.

 

[Azl]

In 2013 I payed 2450€ for my 13" with 1 TB SSD and 16 GB Ram. The same machine cost today 3100€.

Yes, thats the reason i got no 2016... Finally ordered a 2017 15" - but almost 4k€, hard to justify.

 

[danwells]

The only way we'd see a 32 GB RAM machine this fall is a new model (whether or not it uses the old PowerBook name - I've been hanging around Apple machines long enough that I STILL often call any portable Mac a PowerBook)... They aren't going to upgrade the MBP in June, then release a new configuration of the same machine in the fall, especially not with a feature that has been as widely wanted as a RAM upgrade - can you imagine the howls from people who bought the June machine and saw one with 32 GB of RAM available a few months later?

Two problems with a new model with 32 GB:
1.) Apple doesn't like to admit they were wrong - AT ALL! The logical new model to accept extra RAM would be a slightly larger, heavier pro-oriented machine with extra ports and perhaps a 4K (16"?) screen. Why put 32 GB only in something smaller than the existing MBP (a 14" or 15" MacBook with fewer ports and no discrete graphics makes some sense, but not as the ONLY portable with 32 GB). Unfortunately, that larger machine would be admitting that the slimming of the Touch Bar generation wasn't a great idea, and Apple rarely (not never - they admitted that the Trash Can Mac Pro doesn't make sense) admits that they were wrong.

2.) The iMac Pro. If Apple had a MacBook Really Pro to talk about, why not tease it at the same time as the iMac Pro? They could very easily have said "we have two new machines coming that might interest you"...

 

[The Mercurian]

Quoting myself from another thread:

"They should probably pay more mind to competitors prices.
Right now these are prices of similarly specced Dell vs MBP for me:

15" 2017 MBP Kabylake 2.8Ghz 16GB 512GB SSD = € 3,139
15" 2017 Dell XPS Kabylake 2.8Ghz 16GB 512GB SSD = € 1,799

So about €1,340 in the difference - the price of a higher spec MBA is € 1,379 or of the entry Dell 13" XPS is € 1,349.

So for the price of a MBP I could buy two Dells, or a Dell and a MBA. Or take a ten day holiday. Or buy a small car.

I cannot tell you what the MBP should cost - but I can tell you it should not have that much opportunity cost. One would be absolutely mad to pay that kind of premium."