Waiting for the 2019 MBP [Merged]

[fuchsdh]

I have a $1200 Apple gift card I've been building up for a new Mac for awhile. Nothing they released has really grabbed me. This MBP i thought might be it but so many issues. Maybe I'll use the gift card for my new phone/Apple Watch and buy a pc laptop and save the $$$

How do you have a $1200 gift card, if I might ask?

What are the chances of getting a ProMotion display on a MBP next year? Basically 120 Mhz - do we think that is in the cards?

I'd say it's more likely we see ProMotion across the Mac line if they went to Apple's own processors. I don't see Intel's iGPU being able to push 120 frames well. Whereas an iPad Pro is pushing more pixels and handling it pretty well. Intel's graphics capabilities are their weakest point, and that's before we get into their anemic chip performance as of late.

(I would say that the MBP's screens are due for either a denser display or high frame rates. Wider color gamut is great but they could use with more workspace too.)

 

[chrizzz09]

Did they? Where in the article does it say that? They mostly say that 10nm Icelake is scheduled for 2020 and that there are another two intermediate 14nm releases, one this year (Cascadelake) and another one next year (Cooperlake), but no new information about whether or not Cannonlake will be a thing in late 2019 or not. It even mentions early in the article that 10nm is delayed until 2019.

Don't get me wrong, it wouldn't surprise me at all if 10nm gets delayed until 2020, but this is not what the article says, unless I'm missing something. It just gives new insight into what will be before and after that.

Well, technically they already "released" Cannonlake, which is just one low power 15W dual-core processor, the Core-i3 8121U. Apparently, it is supposed to ship end of this year, but no one knows if thats true, because Intel kept quiet about it and only addressed that they have difficulties with the process.

And now they stoped talking about Cannonlake altogether and started talking about its successor Ice Lake in 2020. If they still aim for a 2019 release for their i5, i7, i9 Cannonlake CPUs they should have a clear roadmap by now, but they haven't. Intel already announcing their next generation of 10nm without first fully releasing their first just screams "we fu**ed up Cannonlake, but please wait for Ice Lake!".

I don't expect any 10nm Cannonlake CPUs from Intel next year suitable for the MBP.

 

[Queen6]

I agree with you generally, but Apple did the 2016 redesign thinking Intel's power consumption was going to improve year-over-year. That's not an unreasonable assumption, and it's definitely what Intel was telling them at the time. As always, Apple's strategy was for that redesign (admittedly a bad one) to last them four years. I don't think they could have anticipated having to accommodate 32GB of full speed RAM and two more cores with no change to the manufacturing process.

Apple's arrogance also comes into play and it's single focused strategy of being thinner for the sake of it. Leaving Apple with no place to retreat to with the 8th Gen CPU's increased thermals and power draw. Currently MBP is in stalemate as Apple wont budge and Intel struggling.

Most importantly had Apple stayed with a sensibly designed chassis with adequate thermal headroom and port selection, I seriously doubt vast majority of such threads would exist. Instead Apple has put everything into the ''Air" class of computing frustrating many of it's dwindling professional users, equally maybe there's now so few on the platform Apple has little to no regard for them in 2018.

Said for a long time now the MBP is simply a vehicle for diminishing returns...

Q-6

 

[Ma2k5]

https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/intel-whiskey-lake-amber-lake-3515645

These chips are due to be used (I am guessing) for the upcoming Air and MacBook, but I guess we will eventually have the equivilant CPU's ready for 2019 MacBook Pro's.

I do find the embedded Gigabit WiFi and optionally LTE on the chip itself very interesting - not having to rely on WiFi cards could be a great way to avoid a lot of issues that can occur (and have done so, both Window's and MacBook's alike) - two area's that come to mind is Bluetooth interference and sleep/hibernation issues. That is of course, assuming that they will replace WiFi cards. There is also some other niceties, including faster video rendering, embeddedDisplayPort 1.4 being embedded (won't make a difference to most, but does have it's use with some external monitor/e-GPU setups I think).

An excerpt from TomsHardware article:

Intel claims up to 1.8X better web browser performance and 12X faster Wi-Fi with the Gigabit connection. Other claims include twice the overall performance, up to 16 hours of battery life, and 10.5X faster video transcoding. As with all vendor provided specifications, take these numbers with a grain of salt.

So perhaps it could still be a worthwhile upgrade even if no Cannonlake!

 

[MrGunnyPT]

There's a big iGPU arch upgrade news coming this weekend.. Been talking with some Intel execs on Twitter, and he popped up out of no where to comment on it.

 

[Howard2k]

https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/intel-whiskey-lake-amber-lake-3515645

These chips are due to be used (I am guessing) for the upcoming Air and MacBook, but I guess we will eventually have the equivilant CPU's ready for 2019 MacBook Pro's.

I do find the embedded Gigabit WiFi and optionally LTE on the chip itself very interesting - not having to rely on WiFi cards could be a great way to avoid a lot of issues that can occur (and have done so, both Window's and MacBook's alike) - two area's that come to mind is Bluetooth interference and sleep/hibernation issues. That is of course, assuming that they will replace WiFi cards. There is also some other niceties, including faster video rendering, embeddedDisplayPort 1.4 being embedded (won't make a difference to most, but does have it's use with some external monitor/e-GPU setups I think).

An excerpt from TomsHardware article:



So perhaps it could still be a worthwhile upgrade even if no Cannonlake!

We already have gigabit wifi, except for the 13” nTB. Nice one Intel.

Edit: To be fair, it looks like it might be 802.11ac wave 2, which actually IS cool if correct.

 

[Ma2k5]

We already have gigabit wifi, except for the 13” nTB. Nice one Intel.

Edit: To be fair, it looks like it might be 802.11ac wave 2, which actually IS cool if correct.

Did previous gen chips have gigabit controller on the chip itself?

 

[Howard2k]

Did previous gen chips have gigabit controller on the chip itself?

No. But the transition from off chip ac wave 1 to on chip wave 1 would hardly be revolutionary. If anything, it would simply hold back the availability of faster wifi through off chip deployment. But if it is wave 2, then that’s worthwhile.

 

[clangers23]

Apple's arrogance also comes into play and it's single focused strategy of being thinner for the sake of it. Leaving Apple with no place to retreat to with the 8th Gen CPU's increased thermals and power draw. Currently MBP is in stalemate as Apple wont budge and Intel is struggling.

Most importantly had Apple stayed with a sensibly designed chassis with adequate thermal headroom and port selection, I seriously doubt vast majority of such threads would exist. Instead Apple has put everything into the ''Air" class of computing frustrating many of it's dwindling professional users, equally maybe there's now so few on the platform Apple has no regard in 2018. Said for a long time now the MBP is simple a vehicle for diminishing returns...

Q-6

I agree but in fairness thermal issues with the latest gen CPU's are affecting numerous notebook manufacturer's at the moment. They've treated Coffee Lake and Kaby Lake-R as a refresh rather than a completely new CPU requiring a redesign of their products.

I own several laptops with the latest gen CPU's and by far the worst offender is actually the thickest laptop I own, the ThinkPad T480. Lenovo have dropped in a quad core i7 into it but haven't upgraded the weedy single pipe cooling. A slight change in wind direction appears to trigger CPU throttling!

 

[Queen6]

I agree but in fairness thermal issues with the latest gen CPU's are affecting numerous notebook manufacturer's at the moment. They've treated Coffee Lake and Kaby Lake-R as a refresh rather than a completely new CPU requiring a redesign of their products.

I own several laptops with the latest gen CPU's and by far the worst offender is actually the thickest laptop I own, the ThinkPad T480. Lenovo have dropped in a quad core i7 into it but haven't upgraded the weedy single pipe cooling. A slight change in wind direction appears to trigger CPU throttling!

True, equally some OEM's did their homework...

Paying a premium, one expects the provider get it right as it clearly can be accomplished; low 70C under full load, zero thermal throttling. Apple had the option to do something, it appears to have done little to nothing, just dropped in the new 8th Gen CPU and leave it's customers to get on with it.

To me it's not acceptable at such price points, irrespective of the OEM, as long as people keep rewarding companies for this negative behaviour they will continue and push the boundaries of acceptance...

Q-6

 

[Glockworkorange]

Do all Macs have the T2 issue and speakers?

I don't.

 

[Yebubbleman]

I'm living on my June 2013 Air. It's been struggling recently and the battery is long past overdue for a replacement. Was hoping to get a MBP but I don't know if these ones are worth it.

I might spend a day seriously cleaning up everything on the drive and might look into a battery replacement to get another year out of it.

Yuck to no quad core non TB.

I believe, for a myriad of reasons, that the 2017 non-Touch Bar 13" "MacBook Pro Escape" will probably be the last of its kind:

1. As has been happening with much of the 8th Generation U-series Intel chips, you're seeing a move from two cores in the 2.4GHz to 2.7GHz range, as you had in the 7th Generation to four cores in the 1.6GHz range for 8th. The turbo-boost brings the dual-core speeds back up to that 2.4GHz to 2.7GHz range when you're dealing with things that only utilize two cores, but still, not much of an improvement overall unless you have multi-threaded apps, and even then, you're only getting 1.6GHz.

2. To Apple, the above will be hard to market as a direct successor product. Apple, after all, cares about its marketing first and foremost. "Hey look, it has a 1GHz slower running processor than the year before" won't fly and you know that's how it'd be perceived by those that don't know any better in marketing.

3. Even though Apple outright said that it was in 2016, they've done a bad job of convincing the public that the 13" MacBook Pro "Escape" is the true successor to the MacBook Air. It walks like that duck, it talks like that duck, it pretty much is that duck. But people are not convinced, hence there still being talk of a MacBook Air successor. I guess it needed a wedge shape and the "MacBook Air" branding?


That all being said, I'm pretty sure that an Apple product will utilize those new 8th Generation U-series Intel chips. I just don't think it'll be marketed as a "MacBook Pro". But, so long as it offers the right RAM and storage options, I don't see it mattering. The thing I'd be worried about is whether or not it carried a Touch Bar in tow. Because that would legitimately suck.

 

[Glockworkorange]

I hope I can get 32GB RAM and 4 TB3 ports in a 13" model with no TouchBar.

I believe that is the hope and dream of many. But I don’t think it’s going to happen in an Apple laptop.

 

[gaanee]

If slower CPU clock speed is accompanied by longer battery life without noticeable drop in performance that would be a good marketing point. For notebooks, battery life is equally important as the clock speed.

I believe, for a myriad of reasons, that the 2017 non-Touch Bar 13" "MacBook Pro Escape" will probably be the last of its kind:

1. As has been happening with much of the 8th Generation U-series Intel chips, you're seeing a move from two cores in the 2.4GHz to 2.7GHz range, as you had in the 7th Generation to four cores in the 1.6GHz range for 8th. The turbo-boost brings the dual-core speeds back up to that 2.4GHz to 2.7GHz range when you're dealing with things that only utilize two cores, but still, not much of an improvement overall unless you have multi-threaded apps, and even then, you're only getting 1.6GHz.

2. To Apple, the above will be hard to market as a direct successor product. Apple, after all, cares about its marketing first and foremost. "Hey look, it has a 1GHz slower running processor than the year before" won't fly and you know that's how it'd be perceived by those that don't know any better in marketing.

3. Even though Apple outright said that it was in 2016, they've done a bad job of convincing the public that the 13" MacBook Pro "Escape" is the true successor to the MacBook Air. It walks like that duck, it talks like that duck, it pretty much is that duck. But people are not convinced, hence there still being talk of a MacBook Air successor. I guess it needed a wedge shape and the "MacBook Air" branding?


That all being said, I'm pretty sure that an Apple product will utilize those new 8th Generation U-series Intel chips. I just don't think it'll be marketed as a "MacBook Pro". But, so long as it offers the right RAM and storage options, I don't see it mattering. The thing I'd be worried about is whether or not it carried a Touch Bar in tow. Because that would legitimately suck.

 

[Ma2k5]

If slower CPU clock speed is accompanied by longer battery life without noticeable drop in performance that would be a good marketing point. For notebooks, battery life is equally important as the clock speed.

For many burst tasks it won’t be noticeable at all. However a lot of benchmarks Apple works with (I would imagine) would be tasks which last more than just a few seconds, be minutes or maybe even an hour (rendering, compiling, filtering, I/O tests etc) and that is probably where it can become noticeable to the user, as things taking a few minutes longer than usual will be noticeable. They probably are trying to target certain improvements in those tasks over previous gen.

 

[DeepIn2U]

I agree but in fairness thermal issues with the latest gen CPU's are affecting numerous notebook manufacturer's at the moment. They've treated Coffee Lake and Kaby Lake-R as a refresh rather than a completely new CPU requiring a redesign of their products.

I own several laptops with the latest gen CPU's and by far the worst offender is actually the thickest laptop I own, the ThinkPad T480. Lenovo have dropped in a quad core i7 into it but haven't upgraded the weedy single pipe cooling. A slight change in wind direction appears to trigger CPU throttling!

Interesting tidbit!

I’ve worked with Lenovo’s for over 4yrs (T440/s to X1 Carbon 5th Gen); and I’m very surprised the T480s has heat issues. I’m very curious how it’s heat under normal or heavy use on a flat desk would compare to the 2018 13”/15” MBP, the X280, and the X1 Carbon 6th Gen.

To be fair, Apple’s latest update to the 13” 2018 MBP has significantly reduced heat over normal email, web browsing (tutorial 1080p course videos of 5-8hrs each). No I haven’t measured heat rates before or after but I can definitely feel the difference:

Touchbar area is no requiring conscious thought to Touching the medal.
I can use it on my lap without burning my legs while wearing shorts.

Over the next couple release either a redesign is required or metal on the bottom will need to be replaced with carbon or similar material (graphene) that dissipates heat MUCH faster and better over time of moderate to heavy use.

 

[WRONG]

So, the new MBP is going to have Whiskey-Lake CPU?
Count me in, guys!

(hello fellow skylake waiters! someone's still around?)

 

[maflynn]

So, the new MBP is going to have Whiskey-Lake CPU?

Isn't the new chips just the low power models? What's the next chipset that apple will use in the MBP and when will that be released?

 

[doitdada]

Isn't the new chips just the low power models? What's the next chipset that apple will use in the MBP and when will that be released?

8750 launched in Q2'18, so I believe it will be another year before we will see a refresh, especially with all the "issues" discussed on this forum and the problems with shrinking the die down to 10nm.

 

[Howard2k]

Isn't the new chips just the low power models? What's the next chipset that apple will use in the MBP and when will that be released?

Whiskey Lake is the next mobile release I think. Then it was to be Ice Lake? But now there is likely to be Cooper Lake and then Ice Lake?

EDIT: Actually it doesn't look like Cooper Lake will have a mobile variant, so I guess it's just Whiskey Lake and then Ice Lake at this point with nothing announced between the two?

 

[doitdada]

They will release a desktop CPU in the second half of 2019, then some time will pass and they will release a mobile version (9 months?). Coffee Lake for desktop was released October 5, 2017. I guess we'll be stuck with Coffee Lake architecture for a while, at least on the MacBook Pro lineup. Without increases in cores and decrease in die nanometer, the heat that we are facing on Coffee Lake CPUs make it irrelevant to wait for the next MacBook Pro. There may be a Coffee Lake refresh coming, but with the challenges of cooling the CPU, I think we will have to see more improvements in thermal design from Apple than actual innovation from Intel.

In other words, x86 is stalling, and will probably be stalled until 8K becomes the norm. Each time a machine has to push more pixels, the CPUs get upgrades and this is pretty much in line with the new Mac Pro and the rumored 8K display from Apple coming next year. The 8K TVs are becoming available for consumers this fall, and the power to drive them will be launched next year in the second half.

At the moment it is more about adding cores and bumping GHz than die shrink, which means most of the performance added will be unsuitable for laptops and smaller form factors outside of desktops. There hasn't been any IPC improvements or real changes to basic architecture in the Intel lineup since Haswell, so waiting is futile, at least for Intel to improve your Mac experience in the current year. Coffee Lake got cores and added cache, which is incremental and not a fundamental change to how performance is manufactured.

 

[gaanee]

Whiskey Lake has a TDP of 15W whereas MacBook Pro use 28W and 45W Coffee Lake chips. So Whiskey Lake could be suitable for MacBook Air update.
Until Intel brings 10nm chips and new architecture, most updates could be related to fine tuning, tweaking and hardware bug fixes (Spectre and Meltdown) and integrating wifi chip as in Whiskey Lake and possibly other components as well. Those would be worthwhile features if it helps in noticeable performance improvement, better battery life for notebooks.

 

[Jaekae]

Hopefully they'll remove gimmicky Emoji Bar with Touch ID in favor of Face ID next year...

the screens are to thin for that, and many people think the emojibar is alot better than keys that can only do one thing

 

[Falhófnir]

the screens are to thin for that

Certainly without eliminating the taper towards the edges - and (looking at the surface laptop as an example) that makes the design look quite unbalanced

 

[DeepIn2U]

Whatever we get around Christmas season or first quarter of 2019 for the MacBook Pro’s, seems a slight improvement in performance and battery life will occur, if not maintaining battery life to coincide with a 20-30% cpu and 40% integrated/external GPu performance. Power equals wattage used even still.

Personally I’d like to see less heat created by using smaller lithography in the cou for lower die size before just having better battery life, as it’s really good thus far. Besides we have another full year minimum for this design which I absolutely love!

Considering we may just see 10nm cpu’s (and 7nm in iPhones and comforting smartphones this quarter), I have to ask what’s beyond “nm” in terms of lithography?