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Waiting for the 2019 MBP [Merged]
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Nor will I accept the MacBook Noob with it's autofail keyboard, that may or may not play nicely with the T2 chip, goodbye, and good riddance, Apple at this point in time is little more than a joke...
Q-6
Sounds like someone is really butthurt. What company is offering those performant hardware+software solutions? Apple sure isn't, because they're not into providing data centers with compute power, neither is Dell or Lenovo. On the other hand, Amazon is, Google as well, Oracle and Paperspace to name a few. But you can't buy those in the form of a desktop or notebook, you rent them, in the cloud.
I have no problem with the Apple hardware, it does what it's meant to do. Lightweight desktop work. Again, I'm not aware of a company that offers a single piece of hardware (notebook or desktop) that offers a few hundred or thousand or even more CPU cores for number crunching performance. Same for GPUs and let's face it, even if someone would put a 2080Ti into a mobile computer, it would still only be a toy and good to play games or do a quick prototype to deploy it to a huge cluster later for the actual computation. Times are changing, performance is in the cloud.
I have no problem with the Apple hardware, it does what it's meant to do. Lightweight desktop work. Again, I'm not aware of a company that offers a single piece of hardware (notebook or desktop) that offers a few hundred or thousand or even more CPU cores for number crunching performance. Same for GPUs and let's face it, even if someone would put a 2080Ti into a mobile computer, it would still only be a toy and good to play games or do a quick prototype to deploy it to a huge cluster later for the actual computation. Times are changing, performance is in the cloud.
I find it interesting how much opinions on this topic differ.
Personally, I think it has been a strong year for the Mac, one of the strongest in recent history – two long-awaited, exciting redesigns that both do most things right, the completely new iMac Pro that offers some invaluable choices for the professional market and is presumably a harbinger of things to come with the Mac Pro next year, and also a solid and actually quite significant upgrade of the MBP line, with some surprises that most people didn't expect such as 32GB of DDR4 RAM or the 4TB storage option or the recent addition of the Vega graphics or even the i9 spec option. The T2 chip is a bit of a controversial point because of the Kernel Panics that some people have, but other than that the chip also does many things right and has a bunch of meaningful even if only minor improvements, security- and otherwise, that might prove very valuable in the long-term. And Mojave also was one of the best and most feature-rich macOS-versions in recent years (and despite that had a much more stable and smooth release than High Sierra last year). Not to mention the upcoming Project Marzipan – if executed well, it could be one of the biggest software-additions for the Mac this decade and fundamentally shake up a rather stale app market.
Apple's quality control is a bit worrying in some places, and I definitely see why you and other people are willing to leave Apple behind because of it (I have concerns about it aswell). But other than these issues (which shouldn't be ignored, but also shouldn't be blown out of proportion) and the unnecessarily increasing prices, I think Apple is on the right track for the Mac. If we get hexa-core iMacs and Amberlake MacBooks in spring that are similarly good like this year's refreshes/redesigns, and the long-awaited new Mac Pro alongside new Apple displays sometime later next year, alongside the "usual" refreshes like the MBP when the 9th gen of Intel's chips are out, then Apple is IMO on a good path with the Mac. This year definitely proves that they haven't forgotten about the more professional parts of their customer base.
This would be a really, really, really nice upgrade for the Macbook Pro in 2019, considering iPads have had it since 2017. Now is the time for the MBP to get this IMO.
I'm really puzzled with this post. The iMac Pro that offers what invaluable choices ? How is that completely new , you mean the color? Long awaited by whom ? Why are we talking about the non existent Mac Pro from next year? Apple was last in line to introduce 32 GB Ram into their 15" laptops, everybody else has it already, same with i9. Unless you live in a country with friendly return policy, MBP is a lottery with very slim chances. Let's face reality, MBP keyboard is a disaster, three years later the usb-a is still heavily in use, Apple does not disclose sales numbers ... I think it was the worst year for Mac, with the release of MBA it is clear that Apple has completely turned from making the best computer for its users to making the most profit margin for its shareholders at the cost of quality control. This year definitely proves they have completely abandoned professional parts of their customer base, unless you mean the introduction of non-optional professional emoji bar instead of the escape key or the professionally priced 4TB non RAID ssd option ?
That's what I mean by how much opinions on this topic differ, because I'm conversely really puzzled by many of the points in your post.
Well for one, the iMac Pro offers Intel Xeon workstation-grade CPUs with 8-18 cores, ECC RAM up to 128GB, and Vega graphics, and so on and on, all in a desktop Mac and with macOS and all that comes with it. We previously did not have that, and for those pro users who need that kind of performance, this makes a huge difference. "But it's so expensive!" The iMac Pro is maybe the one product in Apple's current lineup where that argument doesn't apply; there are some comparisons out there where spec-wise comparable Windows PC configurations are put together and they are not only comparable in price but partially even more expensive than the iMac Pro with same specs.
"How is that completely new?" Seriously? You are aware of the spec sheet of for example the 2017 iMacs? I'd say getting 18 cores instead of 4 in a Mac is pretty invaluable for a great deal of professionals who require that sort of thing. If you don't consider these spec options in a Mac "invaluable choices", then you obviously don't need them. Neither do I; I openly admit to that. But for a great deal of people who work in photo/video/audio editing and a number of other professions, the iMac Pro is a very suitable machine. Just read/watch some reviews if that is so very puzzling to you; most reviews I've seen consider it a great machine for these purposes and a reassurance that Apple still cares for the professional part of the user base. If you don't know that you need an iMac Pro, then you don't need an iMac Pro. But for a lot of people who do their performance-intensive work on their Macs, getting one is a no-brainer.
Conversely I could equally ask you: which part of the user base is the iMac Pro for, otherwise? Except for people who have an excessive amount of money to spare, who would buy the iMac Pro without intending to use it for some kind of professional environment, without intending to do something with it that earns them money?
"Long awaited by whom?" Do I need to spell this out? By pretty much everyone who waited for a new Mac Pro since 2013. Or even since the last Mac Pro before that if they weren't satisfied with that one. I mean, not "everyone" in a literal sense if you want to be precise, but still a huge amount of people that wanted a new Mac Pro. The iMac Pro basically a new Mac Pro but attached to a screen and with the caveats that come with it. And some people can’t live with these caveats, sure, but that doesn’t mean we should ignore or discredit the huge amount of people who do. Even many people here on the MacRumors forums have been asking for more performance in a desktop Mac countless times than what the 5K iMac previously offered. It's not the answer to all prayers, but it's without a doubt a machine that a lot of professionals are satisfied with, many of them people that were originally waiting for a new Mac Pro. As you can easily convince yourself if you read a bit into some reviews, feel free to not just take my word for it - I’m just reiterating here what I’ve read many times. Even if it only fulfills the needs of, let's say, 70% of the people who have been asking for a new Mac Pro for years, how does this constitute a bad move and the "worst year for the Mac" by Apple in your eyes? Would you prefer if, as in some other years, they fulfilled pretty much 0% of these people's demands instead and didn't release anything that was primarily aimed at pro users, or answered requests that pro-users made? But yeah, clearly all of these other years where they didn't do that were better than the current one, clearly Apple doesn’t care for its professional user base if they release a machine that a lot of professionals are satisfied with.
Why are we talking about the non existent Mac Pro from next year? Uh... because it's coming next year? From all we currently know, at least. And, uh, because the site you are commenting on is quite literally called MacRumors? ;-) Not sure what else you want me to say here – I merely referenced an upcoming release that Apple has said is coming next year, and that, if this promise is kept, will very likely make a lot of people very happy. I said nothing more, nothing less. If it doesn't come then obviously that'll be disappointing. Again, in regards to "long awaited by whom": by pretty much everyone who wanted a new Mac Pro since 2013 and might or might not have been satisfied with the iMac Pro. If you don’t want to talk about Mac rumors on MacRumors, then you don’t need to talk about it, duh.
"This year definitely proves they have completely abandoned professional parts of their customer base" I don't know, the release of two essentially completely new products aimed mainly at professionals (iMac Pro and the new Mac mini) aswell as a fairly big improvement for the MBP line with many new spec options aimed at professionals suggests otherwise to me. Again I ask, if Apple completely abandoned the professional parts of their customer base, then who are these two new products primarily aimed at? Not at the part of the user base that uses their Macs to check E-Mails and browse the web, I'd say; unless you're rich you're not going to buy an iMac Pro just for that.
About 32GB RAM or i9 or faster SSDs with up to 4TB of storage in the MBPs... I mean, sure, it took them long enough, I'm not defending Apple here for waiting so long. But these are all things that are, once more, primarily aimed at – you guessed it – professional customers, and the inclusion of which in this year's product line is indicative of the fact that Apple still wants to reach this market. The average user, unless he's super-rich, won't spend that much on a processor upgrade that gives him maybe 10-20% additional performance, these are clearly things that people who make money with their machines are primarily going to be interested in, and for them, the prices, as high as they are, oftentimes won't be an issue since a faster machine that helps you get your paid work done faster can oftentimes pay for itself.
Would you have been more satisfied if Apple didn't introduce these options, for professionals, "because everyone else had it already"? These were all things that people, even on this very forum (take a look at the "Waiting for the 2018 MBP"-thread for example) were asking for, many many times, for a very long time, and for good reasons, yet when Apple finally does introduce them, mostly for the professional part of its userbase, then it's obviously proof that Apple doesn't care for or listen to its pro users anymore?
(And to be clear, previous to July 2018, 99% of people here on these forums weren't expecting the MBPs to even get 32GB of RAM because of the whole Intel dilemma, expectations were that bad and for good reason; because people weren't expecting Apple to finally introduce these professional-grade options when they could have done that in the two years prior to that if they wanted to, where they excused it with battery life reasons and the like. Yet this year, Apple subverted people's expectations and released these options that were demanded largely be the professional part of the user base, after all. We should criticize Apple for taking so long, sure, but we should also give them credit where credit is due and not crucify them for answering people's demands.)
The "emoji bar" was released in 2016, not 2018. No, I wasn't referencing it.
With the MacBook Air, I don't completely disagree, the high entry price there is more deterring than with the Mac mini since the Air is not primarily aimed at pro users "who can chug the price" but at the average user who wants the cheapest modern MacBook they can get. Plus, it has a few oddities that aren't that easy to overlook for its price, such as Bluetooth 4.2 or the terrible webcam. But it also does a lot of stuff right IMO. Either way, if your point is that Apple doesn't care about the pro-userbase anymore then I don't think the new MBA is that relevant anyway since it's not primarily aimed at pro users.
"I think it was the worst year for Mac". Ok. The worst year for the Mac is the year in which they not only release three completely redesigned Macs that are generally positively received in reviews but in which they actually do many of the things that the users have been asking Apple to do with the Mac for years. Got it. So, every one of the previous years where Apple wasn't doing much more than give Macs maybe 10% additional performance thanks to Intel's new chips was a better year than the one in which they released a spec option which literally quadruples the maximum multi-core performance you can get in a desktop Mac? Alrighty.
As I said, I can understand complains about the quality control (I share these complaints myself to some extend) and about the rising prices. But if adding two new much-needed professional-grade desktop Macs to the lineup and adding a lot of spec options to the existing lineup that almost only professionals would use, alongside a stable, bug-free and fairly feature-rich new macOS-release, constitutes the worst year in the Mac in its entire history, then I'm really not sure which direction you want Apple to take at all with the Mac. Maybe you have a very specific perception of what a professional user "has to look like" and what his needs are, and I understand that there are certain PC categories in which the Mac simply currently doesn't have anything to offer at the moment, and probably won't in the near future. But there are a huge variety of professions that require a Mac or PC, and for a large number of them, the current Mac lineup doesn't look that bad, especially if you compare this year's lineup to the one from 1-2 years ago.
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Who would buy it? Probably the people in this forum who demand “pro” specs, even though they don’t need it and then start whining because it’s too expensive. Let’s face it, if you’re a professional these machines make you money. They pay for themselves in a short amount of time. Even if a MBP would be 10k+ or an iMac 20k+, it would still be worth it for a professional. Now for the average end user that doesn’t need those specs in the first place and just wants it because it’s “hip”, that’s another story.
You make a lot of valid points, for me it's the reliability and being stuck with a bad unit thx to no return policy. As it does seem very much to me that getting a good MBP is becoming a lottery and I don't care for that with a $4K price tag attached.
Shouldn't have to take the reliability of something so basic as the keyboard into the purchasing decision. Aside questionable design (for me) the current keyboard can only seen as a failure given three generations it remains to be less reliable than previous models.
As for pricing Apple is just pushing it's margins, equally the nickel & diming certainly doesn't sit well, and the need to purchase multiple dongles just attain basic connectivity annoys.
Q-6
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Yep, this pretty much, and that‘s why I think that in professional environments, Apple‘s price hikes are the least problem of their lineup (if a problem at all). If someone buys, say, 400€ extra to get that Vega graphics in his MBP, and this in return makes his workflows complete faster and nets him, say, 100€ more per month in income, then the extra purchase will have paid for itself in 4 months time, and everything he earns from it past that point is additional profit. These 400€ more upfront are a business expense that increase their income.
And this argument can be made for a lot of these additional purchases. If these spec upgrades like the i9 or Vega or 4TB storage or the higher-end configurations of an iMac Pro continuously make you more money in your profession, then buying them is a no-brainier. If they don‘t, then obviously don‘t buy them for your business or profession. It‘s why I find it really bizarre that the year where Apple finally starts offering all these higher-end spec options that were non-existent in the Mac lineup befor is considered the worst year of the Mac ever and „proof that Apple has completely abandoned the pro market“ by some people here. There are a large amount of people out there who today for who buying an iMac Pro, Mac mini or MBP for their business or profession is a good choice and for who there weren‘t any suitable Macs a year or two prior.
Hey, dont like it, dont buy it. No one cares about your opinion when your only bitching and moaning. Why are you even here? There are plenty of windows forums that you will fit in nicely. I am very pleased with apple and have never had a bad experience with them. They have tools that i use to make my life better and with that, i dont really care about the price.
Really not for you to say. He’s perfectly entitled to give his opinion, good or bad... that Apple have created machines that generate a lot of negative commentary is on them. Maybe they’ll use the feedback to make better decisions in future products
I have no confidence that Apple will make an ideal laptop for my needs ever again because it would necessitate backtracking on a number of design choices, which they almost never do.
I will at some point probably have to begrudgingly buy a MBP, but I won’t be very excited about it and I’m holding off for now.
Buying a new Mac used to be one of the most exciting things, now I’d feel disappointed and slightly ripped off.
I will at some point probably have to begrudgingly buy a MBP, but I won’t be very excited about it and I’m holding off for now.
Buying a new Mac used to be one of the most exciting things, now I’d feel disappointed and slightly ripped off.
I saw the same here in Brisbane, barely a few Macs on one table, running no pro apps and hardly approached when looking them over. I had to jump into a new MBP but can say I am loving it, It did cost a lot, but I am still excited like I used to be, actually I think I like this computer the most of any I have bought. I couldn't wait to see what next year brings, for me so far no kernel issues hooked up to external, mostly running clamshell at the moment and temps are staying pretty good.
Exactly or we can just all hold hands and be grateful for what Tim & Co offer
I've never seen so many drop the platform as it no longer serves purpose, what a disappointment - Apple & Pro only equals a higher price little else, that's why so many are dropping Apple as serious provider, as it's simply not one...Q-6
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Apple wont as it's focus lies elsewhere, sure Apple will have a "couple" of standouts to appease the tech press, the rest consumer garbage, until something radical happens, maybe more emojis
Q-6
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I actually think that's fair enough and Tim Cook is perfectly entitled to take that view too.
In other news Apple have just issued their first profits warning since 2002.
As far as I am concerned with Apple at present, the MBP 2018 with Vega is a solid computer for the price, in comparison to others. The GPU was the issue previously but now appears to be resolved [except for flicker issues, which is a different matter].
The iMacpro is simply the best computer I have ever owned [includes using all sorts of HP & Dell workstations over the last 20 years]. Those who don't understand the value are not its customers. It is an immense pleasure to turn it on every day and use - is immensely fluid in all operations, screen is great, and I barely ever hear the fans. It is an amazing piece of technology.
However I have agreed with Q-6 in the past that Apple is really a consumer organisation these days, and there are no true traditional 'workstations'. The current MBP still blasts the fans due to restrictions on its size [and always will] and those who want a modular computer are still waiting. It certainly does seem the pros are still ignored, but I will say this.
I cannot find a computer out there I still want more than the MBP 15" as a laptop, and there are no desktops that I want more than an iMac pro for my business. HP Zbook Studio looks good but really that is the only alternative I could actually buy, everything else is either ugly or under specced [MS SB2 comes close but no TB3 for egpu].
It is ok to complain about Apple and their direction and I get it totally. But really I would love someone on here to list all the valid alternatives and explain exactly why they are so much better [price, design, specs, store availability, service, apps supplied etc]. I would if I had time and the inclination to do so.
The iMacpro is simply the best computer I have ever owned [includes using all sorts of HP & Dell workstations over the last 20 years]. Those who don't understand the value are not its customers. It is an immense pleasure to turn it on every day and use - is immensely fluid in all operations, screen is great, and I barely ever hear the fans. It is an amazing piece of technology.
However I have agreed with Q-6 in the past that Apple is really a consumer organisation these days, and there are no true traditional 'workstations'. The current MBP still blasts the fans due to restrictions on its size [and always will] and those who want a modular computer are still waiting. It certainly does seem the pros are still ignored, but I will say this.
I cannot find a computer out there I still want more than the MBP 15" as a laptop, and there are no desktops that I want more than an iMac pro for my business. HP Zbook Studio looks good but really that is the only alternative I could actually buy, everything else is either ugly or under specced [MS SB2 comes close but no TB3 for egpu].
It is ok to complain about Apple and their direction and I get it totally. But really I would love someone on here to list all the valid alternatives and explain exactly why they are so much better [price, design, specs, store availability, service, apps supplied etc]. I would if I had time and the inclination to do so.
I am gonna lower my 2019 MBP Requirements before dropping $3,000
#1. 10th Gen Intel 8 Core CPU with Spectre and Meltdown fully solved in silicone.
#2. 10nm CPU and 10nm GPU
#3. 120Hz ProMotion Display HDR Wide Color Gamut
#4. HDMI 2.1 compliant display out
#5. FaceID
#6. New Butterfly Keyboard (not just rubber bands under they keys)
#7. Quad Thunderbolt 3 full speed all 4 ports.
#8. DDR4 3000 RAM or faster.
These are all non negotiable deal breakers. And I will not Pre-Order, I will wait for written reviews.
#1. 10th Gen Intel 8 Core CPU with Spectre and Meltdown fully solved in silicone.
#2. 10nm CPU and 10nm GPU
#3. 120Hz ProMotion Display HDR Wide Color Gamut
#4. HDMI 2.1 compliant display out
#5. FaceID
#6. New Butterfly Keyboard (not just rubber bands under they keys)
#7. Quad Thunderbolt 3 full speed all 4 ports.
#8. DDR4 3000 RAM or faster.
These are all non negotiable deal breakers. And I will not Pre-Order, I will wait for written reviews.
Well you won’t be getting a MacBook then for the foreseeable future, that much is certain, you could have made that your 2021 wish list and you still won’t get it.
I should clarify definitely not expecting an HDMI port. But Display Out via USB-C must be updated to be in compliance. That digital handshake needs to happen.
I don’t see anything in my list besides the 120Hz Promotion display that isn’t part of natural tech evolution for late 2019.
While all or most of that on your list might come eventually, I wouldn‘t get my hopes up for this year.
I can‘t see Face ID or a 120Hz display or a completely redesigned keyboard (other than a butterfly v4 with maybe some more reliability) come out before the next big redesign in presumably 2020. HDMI 2.1, as Aquamite pointed out, is probably out of question aswell. And in regards to #1 you either miscounted or I‘m not sure why you‘re skipping one generation, because unless Intel breaks their yearly cycle I don‘t think the mobile 10th gen will be due before Spring 2020, and whether or not it‘ll be 10nm and with Spectre and Meltdown fixed is completely out of Apple‘s hands.
BTW the current Vega chips in the MBPs are already 7nm. So at least half of your point #2 is already here.
And waiting for some reviews is generally advisable, particularly with products in that price range.
No, they are still 14nm.
https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/radeon-pro-vega-20-pro-vega-16
I hope 2019 MBP refresh will get the 7nm Vega.
Oh, I see. You’re right.
Didn‘t a lot of people here on these forums claim just a few months ago that the new mobile Vega chips would be 7nm? The first in the market except for the A12, and all that? What happened to that?
After Apple announcement of Radeon Pro Vega 16 & 20 for MBP 15, AMD released 7nm Vega 20 GPU for desktop. People just confused with mobile and desktop cards.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/New-A...e-up-with-7nm-Vega-GPU-released.361126.0.html