Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Web Browsing Performance on Android 2.2 Hampered by Flash Compatibility

Hal Itosis said:
Then you as a consumer should know what to do about it. [i.e., moaning and whining in a forum won't achieve much, other than make readers who already don't care feel even less empathetic. ;) ] The battle going on all around us at the moment is historic. Lacking the "choice" to have Flash suck down the performance of our mobile devices (during this transition period) is a small price to pay. If you don't like where Apple is taking the ball then go home. Buy something else and be happy... no one's stopping you. Hanging out at a Mac-oriented website calling people "fanboys" is just... so sad.
Click to expand...

What is really sad it's when people are ready to sacrifice (aka "paying little price") in order to advance the fight of one particular company which is in it solely for the money. Steve Jobs may change his mind about Flash in two days. He is not sacrificing anything here but you do. Why? You can have it both ways - have the best phone now (the one with the Flash), enjoy Internet as it currently exists and then [if] something else pans out - be a smart consumer and buy what works best. Irrational people scary me.
 
thetexan said:
At least Android gave users the option.
Click to expand...

The option of what exactly? To bog your phone down? To hog resources? That so-called beta ran like crap.

If you read his statement, Steve Jobs' point is that it's not really an option because of Adobe's mishandling of Flash and their apparent indifference to getting Flash to run decently on a mobile device--and as this "beta" makes clear, he's right. Apple appears to put far more emphasis on user experience than most companies which, along with this video, makes their reasons for avoiding Flash pretty clear. It's not about taking choices away from people but keeping the crap out of our way.

Look at the sales figures for iPhone and iPad. Plenty of people don't give a crap about the ability to choose Flash. That's the geek-o-sphere speaking. Most people just want a device that runs well without having to dig through menus and tweak settings and uninstall things or run constant updates to fix problems or manage their apps constantly because Flash is hogging resources.

So all this rhetoric about options and choice and freedom rings sort of hollow as long as there really isn't a decent option for Flash on mobile devices. Maybe if Adobe actually gets this thing out the door in the next decade, that argument might hold some water.
 
Well of course Flash takes longer to load! There's more data!

It's like comparing a browser that doesn't load JPEGs with Safari. Of course the first browser will leave Safari in the dust, because it's downloading less data! That doesn't mean you don't want JPEG images in your web pages!

Kudos to Google and Android for getting Flash to work. Giving the option to load it on demand is perfect.

Looking difficult to justify an iPhone purchase now. I watch Flash video on Comedy Central (Colbert and Stewart) and all the networks, every day. But we'll see what WWDC brings. Maybe there is some killer feature on the new iPhone that will sway me.
 
Hal Itosis said:
Yeah, so? Was there supposed to be some wisdom hiding in your words? What... if you were the CEO of Apple you'd be falling all over yourself to support Flash? That's nice.
Click to expand...

So you seem to struggle to distinguish between "Actively Blocking Flash with a rampant tirade so as to not lose control/money on the App Store" vs. "Remaining Neutral / Inclusive" vs. "Falling all over oneself to support Flash" ?

See if this helps - #3 is viable only for Adobe CEO. #2 is What every other moderately sensible company's CEO would do and #1 is what Apple CEO is doing and sadly a group of people are endorsing that under the disguise of "User Experience" and I can't help but call the BS out.

That's all there is to take away. Now we can go back to the regular User Experience Theater.
 
kenypowa said:
It's only the #1 downloaded app in the marketplace. Surely people don't want flash. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Here's how I see it. Maybe not everyone wants Flash. Maybe there are a few websites in that person's bookmarks or visits daily that is either an entire flash drivin webpage or uses the plugin alongside normal HTML. In that case, it isn't a matter of weather someone wants it but that person needs in order to view a page. Otherwise, he coulda been fine without it.

Of course, status like that only say so much. We still don't know why their downloading it. Just because something is #1 doesn't make it good (like Twilight, for example).
 
Zc456 said:
Here's how I see it. Maybe not everyone wants Flash. Maybe there are a few websites in that person's bookmarks or visits daily that is either an entire flash drivin webpage or uses the plugin alongside normal HTML. In that case, it isn't a matter of weather someone wants it but that person needs in order to view a page. Otherwise, he coulda been fine without it.

Of course, status like that only say so much. We still don't know why their downloading it.
Click to expand...

Crazy logic. If someone wants to view a Flash-based website, then they want Flash. Pretty clear and simple.

They want the whole web - not just the Apple-approved parts of the web.
 
And in other news - your web browsing performance will be much better if you don't waste your time reading or responding to this dumb article.

I mean seriously, who'd have thought that if you don't load Flash content and don't execute it, that you'd have more CPU cycles and network bandwidth for the rest of your web browsing performance? Pure genius!
 
mrochester said:
Better to have the choice to view Flash if you want rather than no choice at all. Looks pretty good actually! And this version of Flash is beta, so hopefully it'll get better still. Google are doing a really great job with Android right now, there's a lot of impressive things coming from them just now.
Click to expand...

you act like there's no possibility of a future without being forced to choose between content and speed.
 
parapup said:
So you seem to struggle to distinguish between "Actively Blocking Flash with a rampant tirade so as to not lose control/money on the App Store"
Click to expand...

You are making an assumption that has no basis in fact. It would actually save Apple money to allow all the free games to be played on Flash instead of being delivered through the App store. Apple also indicated a strong aversion to flash long before the app store even existed.

vs. "Remaining Neutral / Inclusive" vs. "Falling all over oneself to support Flash" ?

See if this helps - #3 is viable only for Adobe CEO. #2 is What every other moderately sensible company's CEO would do and #1 is what Apple CEO is doing and sadly a group of people are endorsing that under the disguise of "User Experience" and I can't help but call the BS out.

That's all there is to take away. Now we can go back to the regular User Experience Theater.
Click to expand...

Adobe CEO and You apparently..#2 is good for a moderate CEO of company that does not care much for its customers. Apple understands their market a lot better than you do. I know you like to believe the 86 million people using iPhone OS devices are not as smart as you or have some how been duped.. That tells us pretty much all we need to know about you. Flash is the past. Apple maybe ahead of the curve, but they are clearly right. There is no reason to spend time or money pursuing something nearly no one in the world actually likes and everyone knows will be completely gone inside of 5 years.

It is unlikely that Adobe will deliver a stable high performance flash client to any mobile platform within the next 12 months. After that, the hardware may be at a point that it could support the mess that flash is, but no one will be left who cares.

The only way that Apple could implement flash without being directly responsible to the end users for its performance would be to allow browser plugins in the app store. This has several drawbacks for Apple. They have to create an iPhone plugin API. Their desire is to see a web based on standards and not proprietary plugins. (Don't even start the flash is an open standard BS, it is not, you know its not. If you really think it is, go read Adobe's licensing agreements for flash..)

Adobe has been promising to drop the licensing fees and Open source all the flash components since 2008, maybe if they would actually do that, it could become an Open standard. It would could then be integrated into the browsers and I imagine Apple would reconsider. In two years they have opened up 2 or 3 of the required APIs but they have not managed to deliver on their promises.

If you really want users to have real choice, than your beef is with Adobe. As long as they cling to the reigns of flash, it will remain on its slow march towards death.
 
lilo777 said:
What is really sad it's when people are ready to sacrifice (aka "paying little price") in order to advance the fight of one particular company which is in it solely for the money. Steve Jobs may change his mind about Flash in two days. He is not sacrificing anything here but you do. Why? You can have it both ways - have the best phone now (the one with the Flash), enjoy Internet as it currently exists and then [if] something else pans out - be a smart consumer and buy what works best. Irrational people scary me.
Click to expand...

parapup said:
So you seem to struggle to distinguish between "Actively Blocking Flash with a rampant tirade so as to not lose control/money on the App Store" vs. "Remaining Neutral / Inclusive" vs. "Falling all over oneself to support Flash" ?

See if this helps - #3 is viable only for Adobe CEO. #2 is What every other moderately sensible company's CEO would do and #1 is what Apple CEO is doing and sadly a group of people are endorsing that under the disguise of "User Experience" and I can't help but call the BS out.
Click to expand...

No BS... you (both) are simply thinking too 2-dimensionally. You still perceive the situation as "Apple versus Adobe".

BZZZT. WRONG. (you've ignored facts already provided, so you're not being honest here).

Flash has been a hemorrhoid haven for far too long — speed bumps on the information superhighway. PLUS... it's all under the control of a single entity. Not good. This is about the Internet as a whole. Sure, Apple has their own private little "walled garden"... but that's well within Apple's right, to do with its part of the webosphere as they see fit. Everyone's invited (if you follow the rules), but no one HAS to go there (or even pass through). It's totally optional.

Flash OTOH however is a pervasive component of the entire content delivery system (video/animation) for the whole megillah (or it was anyway, until these events started to unfold), and plenty of people —not just Macoholics —want to see it replaced... or *truly* standardized (ain't gonna happen).

Either you're being obtuse on these basic matters deliberately... or, perhaps you just can't help it.

So it goes.
 
wovel said:
You are making an assumption that has no basis in fact. It would actually save Apple money to allow all the free games to be played on Flash instead of being delivered through the App store. Apple also indicated a strong aversion to flash long before the app store even existed.



Adobe CEO and You apparently..#2 is good for a moderate CEO of company that does not care much for its customers. Apple understands their market a lot better than you do. I know you like to believe the 86 million people using iPhone OS devices are not as smart as you or have some how been duped.. That tells us pretty much all we need to know about you. Flash is the past. Apple maybe ahead of the curve, but they are clearly right. There is no reason to spend time or money pursuing something nearly no one in the world actually likes and everyone knows will be completely gone inside of 5 years.

It is unlikely that Adobe will deliver a stable high performance flash client to any mobile platform within the next 12 months. After that, the hardware may be at a point that it could support the mess that flash is, but no one will be left who cares.

The only way that Apple could implement flash without being directly responsible to the end users for its performance would be to allow browser plugins in the app store. This has several drawbacks for Apple. They have to create an iPhone plugin API. Their desire is to see a web based on standards and not proprietary plugins. (Don't even start the flash is an open standard BS, it is not, you know its not. If you really think it is, go read Adobe's licensing agreements for flash..)

Adobe has been promising to drop the licensing fees and Open source all the flash components since 2008, maybe if they would actually do that, it could become an Open standard. It would could then be integrated into the browsers and I imagine Apple would reconsider. In two years they have opened up 2 or 3 of the required APIs but they have not managed to deliver on their promises.

If you really want users to have real choice, than your beef is with Adobe. As long as they cling to the reigns of flash, it will remain on its slow march towards death.
Click to expand...

Amen to that.
 
wovel said:
Apple understands their market a lot better than you do. I know you like to believe the 86 million people using iPhone OS devices are not as smart as you or have some how been duped.. That tells us pretty much all we need to know about you.
Click to expand...

Blah Blah Blah. BS regurgitated is still BS. 95%+ users use Windows - that tells us pretty much all we need to know about Mac users, eh?

If that's the level you want to converse while withholding your inane beliefs about Apple's care about its users - let's stop you right there.
 
Hal Itosis said:
Flash OTOH however is a pervasive component of the entire content delivery system (video/animation) for the whole megillah (or it was anyway, until these events started to unfold), and plenty of people —not just Macoholics —want to see it replaced... or *truly* standardized (ain't gonna happen).
Click to expand...

So you are saying everyone should just follow along the cult's tirade because they think Flash is evil and absence of workable alternatives to do what people want to do has no place in the tirade against Flash? Ok then.
 
parapup said:
Well I did sell the iPhone long time ago - My N1 is doing just great. And I don't think people come here to solve their personal problem. It's a discussion forum - where people can express their views and that should not be limited to Fanbois - dissident is OK. So in other words if Jobs and followers did not make outrageous claims to further their Agenda and instead just said we want Apple to make everyone's money and Flash doesn't let us do that - I wouldn't have to express anything, I will just continue to enjoy Froyo uninterrupted :)
Click to expand...

What's wrong with a company "furthering their agenda" exactly? That's what Apple SHOULD be doing don't ya think? And outrageous claims? Jobs in his open letter made a lot of reasoned arguments about why Flash won't be on the iPhone OS, if you don't agree with his points, fine but stop trying to paint Apple as the bad guy, they're just doing what they think is best for their company. Maybe you come here to further your agenda, at least we know where Apple are coming from, what's your angle?
 
-=XX=-Nephilim said:
LOL man :D

I think MacRumors would rather shut down then report objectively on what's going on out there...

Never mind though - it's fun observing all this just like it's fun to sometimes switch on Fox News and LOL at their unbiased journalism :D
Click to expand...

I'm so glad we have shepherd like you to guide us ...
 
Lord Vader said:
I'm so glad we have shepherd like you to guide us ...
Click to expand...

And what is that suppose to mean!?!?!

It is OBVIOUS that this site has nothing to do with objective, unbiased, journalism...

If they are objective and unbiased then they would surely report such important news in very different way indeed...

Fact!

Now, talking about "shepherds" I rally am not born for such task, sorry mate... - I'll let Mr. Jobs fill that role for you guys :)
 
-=XX=-Nephilim said:
And what is that suppose to mean!?!?!

It is OBVIOUS that this site has nothing to do with objective, unbiased, journalism...

If they are objective and unbiased then they would surely report such important news in very different way indeed...

Fact!

Now, talking about "shepherds" I rally am not born for such task - I'll let Mr. Jobs fill that role for you guys :)
Click to expand...

Right ... Bunny, as you know, is not a troll, yet he's very upset now. By the way my "i don't like flash" goes back in time when it was Macromedia Flash and it was already showing signs. Long before I even had a Mac. I hate it on a desktop computer/Notebook, why should i want it on a mobile phone. Even if it runs (someday) very good my priority is battery. I have lived without Flash for years with no problems ( I had to use it though in my website for video of course . No more.)
 
Lord Vader said:
Right ... Bunny, as you know, is not a troll, yet he's very upset now. By the way my "i don't like flash" goes back in time when it was Macromedia Flash and it was already showing signs. Long before I even had a Mac. I hate it on a desktop computer/Notebook, why should i want it on a mobile phone. Even if it runs (someday) very good my priority is battery. I have lived without Flash for years with no problems ( I had to use it though in my website for video of course . No more.)
Click to expand...

So just because YOU don't like the Flash millions of iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad owners need to have no CHOICE of installing the plug in if they want to!?

No one is forcing you to install it man! And quite frankly no one gives a crap what you like or don't like... :)

Problem is, however, that I am being FORCED not to have an option to install Flash Player on my devices...

Freedom + Choice = Freedom of Choice

Lord Vader indeed :D
 
-=XX=-Nephilim said:
So just because YOU don't like the Flash millions of iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad owners need to have no CHOICE of installing the plug in if they want to!?

No one is forcing you to install it man! And quite frankly no one gives a crap what you like or don't like... :)

Problem is, however, that I am being FORCED not to have an option to install Flash Player on my devices...

Freedom + Choice = Freedom of Choice
Click to expand...

Apple doesn't need or want it and I tend to agree. The end of the world didn't come, dogs still hate cats. I think al is fine.

Lord Vader indeed :D
Click to expand...

That's all? Shame.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back