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A lot of people (who clearly weren't there today) supporting the profiteering. Frankly, I do have an issue with someone taking something to sell on for a profit when I myself am excited about actually /using/ the product. It's the same with concert tickets, game releases, whatever.

I couldn't care less about supply and demand, scalpers/touts/profiteers/scammers ultimately lead to let down fans. These just end up being untaxed profits fuelled by greed which benefit the few.

And you can bet Apple does care about this stuff - they are all about image, and this isn't a good look.

All this stuff aside though, the real issue here is stock level. If we had walked away with a phone today, we wouldn't be half as pissed off. IMO stock level is the real problem today.
 
Damn! I was in Japan at the launch and there were all these Asians who could hardly speak English buying the new iPhone. Was I the only non-scammer!?

Who cares if people are buying them to resell. I say let them buy them to resell so the fan boys who don't get one will pay me more for the one I am selling. To assume that all the non-Asians in line aren't "scamming" is where the racism comes in buddy.
 
Scalpers/Scammers. The solution?

At my local store (Glasgow, Scotland), there were around 200 people in line by 6am this morning. I waited patiently until the Apple store staff began handing out the cards.

During the several hours of queuing I endured, no less than 10 people asked me to buy a handset for them to use up my full quota of 2 (I only wanted one). I was offered money to do this, but wouldn't budge. In addition, I witnessed this happening throughout the line, with the vast majority of people there clearly looking to make a profit by purchasing additional handsets to resell at a premium.

These people sicken me. Entrepreneurial spirit, this is not.

In any case, would a (partial) solution to this be the following:

1. Announce a 'reservation date', where people must book/pay by registered card prior to the day of release, and be given a 'voucher' (not dissimilar to the one handed out to those today) which is then redeemed at the store on launch day?

2. No on the day cash sales are permitted, for whatever reason, until say 6 weeks after launch. After this initial period, cash purchases can be made. This also has the advantage of vastly speeding up the sale process during the launch phase.

2. Any customers purchasing on contract via Apple would also go through a similar process, doing all the 'paperwork' for the contract online, and simply queuing on launch day to essentially collect the handset.

One thing is for certain, I will never queue for a product again. With that in mind, if it is Apple's aim to have genuine customers creating a buzz about the store on launch day, I suggest that something needs to be done.

Thoughts?
 
I remember the same thing happening when I was working for Apple (with the iPhone 4). A few points:

1.They are not scammers, they are opportunists, looking to make some quick money due to the:

2. Incredibly high demand of Apple products. If people weren't so fixated on having everything now, and actually used their brains to weigh up the necessity of this, these opportunists would have no market.

3. Calling them "non-genuine" is judgemental and unnecessary. They are as genuine a customer as any other, paying with real money for a real product. What they choose to do with the phone they are buying is their choice entirely.

4. If you take a step back, and look at this "problem" on a whole, you will see that you are part of it. Crazed fans spending all night in the cold waiting for a phone is as ridiculous as people taking advantage of this market.

I'm going to disagree. Severely. It's really easy to dismiss this as "capitalism" and feel proud about how smart you are, but this is something entirely different.

For clarity: I just came back from the Apple Store in Nashua, NH empty handed. Wanted a t-mo silver, they ran out. This happens. It cost me a couple hours of my time to try to get one, and it didn't work out. On this point, I'm honestly not particularly angry.

However, what I witnessed this morning was dangerous. NH doesn't have a sales tax, so it's a place where A LOT of these people come to buy their apple products. There were at least 9 or 10 people walking around with backpacks, coordinating groups of dozens of kids who are in line for one of these sketchballs. There are threats made to these kids, both implicit and explicit, about how they need to do what they are told.

This morning it was all exacerbated by the mall or apple's decision to not allow line up before 6am. Predictably, this meant a complete madhouse of a rush at 6am, as hundreds of people literally started running to the apple store line entrance location outside. These profiteers could be seen literally yelling at people to "start ****ing running". As I am not a complete monster and have enough civility to not sprint to try to get a ****ing iPhone, I of course ended up toward the back. The kids who were there for these "opportunists", as some of you like to call them, were being questioned, berated, and generally not getting good vibes from their handlers for their inability to get more up to the front of the line. Line cutting was rampant, with people joining friends in pockets that already belonged to these groups. There's little any individual can do about it, since you'd be standing up to a grounp of 6-12 people who don't look like following the law is their first priority. People are openly talking to their other compatriots about how they cut the line, how they're planning to cut the line, and in general about how this entire buy and resell business works. It's always been this way, but it's getting much, much worse.

All of this is exacerbated by the fact that the "handlers" seem to have become friendly with the Apple Store employees. They universally approach the staff at the store, exchange pleasantries and a handshake, and are allowed to "patrol" the line, making sure the kids stay in line and buy the right models to maximize value. I found out about the white/silver selling out about 15 minutes before the Apple Store told us because these people are working the line so much that they know what is selling practically better than Apple does.

I don't have a problem with the general idea of people leveraging supply and demand to make a little profit. But it is reaching a bit of a mass scale tipping point, where it isn't possible for people who just want one device to show up and buy one, so to the OP's point, Apple is risking alienating people who will be there if and when things aren't as much of a bonanza for Apple in the long term. I am a happy repeat Apple customer. I generally appreciate the higher level of support and the (former) feeling that I, as a customer, actually justified being treated like a human being. Apple as a company is eroding that trust by being so implicit in their behavior. As an example, the kids in the today were openly talking about how they could sign any name they want, that the Apple Store doesn't care, and since they're using gift cards they can just get back in line and repeat. Again, this is all probably legal, but it doesn't change that it alienates me as a customer. Calling these people scammers is unfair, but calling them "fake" customers is not. If and when Apple's incredible run ends, these people will be the first to wait in line for the next big thing. They are not a part of Apple's "base" and will not display any brand loyalty whatsoever. Apple undoubtedly gets more sales because of them now, but if it starts to come at the expense of more likely to be brand loyal customers, then those sales may prove to be not worth it.

Finally, I want to come back to the issue of safety. It was an extremely toxic environment in line this morning. The types of people who are willing to do this for the little amount of money they make are not, shall we say, white collar individuals. Which is fine, but since they're not in line for themselves they really have very little to lose by attempting to cut, manipulate, or otherwise do unsavory things. They're much more confrontational and bold as a result. I grew up in a very tough area and am not particularly sensitive to these things, but I can honestly say I didn't feel safe this morning, especially during the mad dash to create a line at 6am. It had all the feelings of the stories you read about people being killed at Walmart on Black Friday, and I suspect this is not an experience Apple wants to endure.

I suspect the solution is a modified version of the one Apple tried to implement a few years back. Apple IDs and the computer systems in Apple stores have come a long way. With real names, it would be trivially easy to ensure that at least one individual = one phone style policies could be enforced. Forcing people to use credit cards would also cut down on the viability of this plan. The more that is done to increase the risk of losing large amounts of money on the part of these handlers, the less of this type of activity we will see. You likely can't and won't eliminate this, but reeling it in a bit would do a lot of good and IMO find a better balance between keeping your "real" customers happy and allowing the market to function. Right now, I think these buy and resell individuals are practically smothering the market.
 
A fool and their money is soon parted, I believe is the saying. The people paying these scalpers are the idiots. As long as they exist, can't stop this stuff.

If you cut supply (by the scalpers), you increase prices on ebay, and therefore then increase people interested in scalping. It's a cycle.
 
I'm going to disagree. Severely. It's really easy to dismiss this as "capitalism" and feel proud about how smart you are, but this is something entirely different.

I'm going to disagree.

What you witnessed sounds illegal, and dangerous.

What I witnessed were orderly queues.

I was referring to the unnecessary branding of these customers due to what they intend to do with their purchase, not dangerous behaviour (which I have never witnessed).

And yes, for the record, I'm very proud of how smart I am.
 
At my local store (Glasgow, Scotland), there were around 200 people in line by 6am this morning. I waited patiently until the Apple store staff began handing out the cards.

During the several hours of queuing I endured, no less than 10 people asked me to buy a handset for them to use up my full quota of 2 (I only wanted one). I was offered money to do this, but wouldn't budge. In addition, I witnessed this happening throughout the line, with the vast majority of people there clearly looking to make a profit by purchasing additional handsets to resell at a premium.

These people sicken me. Entrepreneurial spirit, this is not.

In any case, would a (partial) solution to this be the following:

1. Announce a 'reservation date', where people must book/pay by registered card prior to the day of release, and be given a 'voucher' (not dissimilar to the one handed out to those today) which is then redeemed at the store on launch day?

2. No on the day cash sales are permitted, for whatever reason, until say 6 weeks after launch. After this initial period, cash purchases can be made. This also has the advantage of vastly speeding up the sale process during the launch phase.

2. Any customers purchasing on contract via Apple would also go through a similar process, doing all the 'paperwork' for the contract online, and simply queuing on launch day to essentially collect the handset.

One thing is for certain, I will never queue for a product again. With that in mind, if it is Apple's aim to have genuine customers creating a buzz about the store on launch day, I suggest that something needs to be done.

Thoughts?
The last point is important. Apple want the image and buzz of enthusiastic apple fans, not hundreds of scalpers try to make a quick buck. The employees were clapping and high fiving people who clearly don't want to be there. The atmosphere today - sucked.
 
There is a similar group of 8 in front of me. What is driving me nuts is that there were originally 2, then all of the sudden 6 more show up and join their friends. WTF!

I would have raised hell if this had happened to me whilst in a queue. I hate queue jumpers of any kind - ranking them with shoppers who break the 5 items in a basket rule in supermarkets and turn up with a full trolley. The last person who did this to me faced my anger and was removed from the queue by management.
 
They are selling to overseas markets that don't have access to the iPhone for a while.

Free market. Profit. Capitalism.

It's not nice but neither is it great that Apple charges so much, and staggers the release to such an extent that people feel the need to do this.

Anyway I respect the Asian enterprise.
 
At my local store (Glasgow, Scotland), there were around 200 people in line by 6am this morning. I waited patiently until the Apple store staff began handing out the cards.

During the several hours of queuing I endured, no less than 10 people asked me to buy a handset for them to use up my full quota of 2 (I only wanted one). I was offered money to do this, but wouldn't budge. In addition, I witnessed this happening throughout the line, with the vast majority of people there clearly looking to make a profit by purchasing additional handsets to resell at a premium.

These people sicken me. Entrepreneurial spirit, this is not.

In any case, would a (partial) solution to this be the following:

1. Announce a 'reservation date', where people must book/pay by registered card prior to the day of release, and be given a 'voucher' (not dissimilar to the one handed out to those today) which is then redeemed at the store on launch day?

2. No on the day cash sales are permitted, for whatever reason, until say 6 weeks after launch. After this initial period, cash purchases can be made. This also has the advantage of vastly speeding up the sale process during the launch phase.

2. Any customers purchasing on contract via Apple would also go through a similar process, doing all the 'paperwork' for the contract online, and simply queuing on launch day to essentially collect the handset.

One thing is for certain, I will never queue for a product again. With that in mind, if it is Apple's aim to have genuine customers creating a buzz about the store on launch day, I suggest that something needs to be done.

Thoughts?

Your points seem good... there needs to be a balance between giving the phone to genuine people who want it yet till creating a bit of a buzz. I'm sure Apple will think of something.

I was in Glasgow too - arrived at 7.15 and by 7.45 had left the queue as it had sold out. I'm not sure if I would have got a 5S or not, had the scalpers not been there... but there's a better chance I would.

Surely this launch is a special case though - stock levels are never usually as low. I mean, they're crazy low today.

My solution: have high enough stock levels so at least those people who queue on launch day get one, but enough that they sell out after perhaps a day and create a bit of a "shortage" hype...
 
Stop Scalpers - Don't let foreigners buy on launch day

This is my experience at every iPhone launch day I've been at, be it in London or Edinburgh, at an o2 shop or an Apple store. Same every time.

It's just droves of guys, all together, sometimes with literal bags of cash (like coins, wtf?). They're all from the Indian sub-continent or China and it's patently obvious they aren't genuine customers.

If Apple didn't sell to anyone but natural born residents of the country or people that were actually citizens then 95% of the scalpers would disappear, at least in Europe.
Some may call this 'racist' or use other provocative language, but come on now, you've got to call a spade a spade when you see it.

Go on, tell me upwards of 60% of the UK population is asian and the lines of scalpers at the Apple stores on launch day are representative of the country as a whole.
 
There is a similar group of 8 in front of me. What is driving me nuts is that there were originally 2, then all of the sudden 6 more show up and join their friends. WTF!

There's no such thing as a family gathering in a line of this sort. Just let the Apple employee know who was there when you got there and the rest of them should be told to head to the back.
 
But how does the head scalper maintain order with their minions? What stops them from running with the cash or product?
 
There's no such thing as a family gathering in a line of this sort. Just let the Apple employee know who was there when you got there and the rest of them should be told to head to the back.

This is great in theory, but there were far too few Apple Store employees around, and again, you're surrounded by people who are at the store for some of the people who are doing this. I can't speak for Glasgow, but here in the USA some of these people are putting tens of thousands of dollars out there in a day, it at least felt like retribution of some sort from this group was plausible.
 
But how does the head scalper maintain order with their minions? What stops them from running with the cash or product?

A fair amount of threatening. One head scalper was walking around with a clipboard taking down names and addresses of the kids in line. I saw another make the kid give up a credit card of his own before giving him an Apple Gift card. It's also seemingly a referral system, where kid A refers friends B and C. If B and C skip out it creates a problem for kid A, who presumably becomes "liable" (in a truly non legal sense) for the other kids or helps find the kids.
 
Supply & demand. Absolutely nothing can be done to stop it.

You can minimize it's effect by offering preoders which is almost like creating supply out of thin air and getting people to wait in line even if you don't have the actual stock.
 
It's just a phone man and they have every right to be there as you do

Agreed. If they have the money to pay for it, they should get it.

If people are cutting in line or having people join them, then I don't think that should be allowed.
 
Hey I'm Asian and from the uk and I agree with most of the comments here. I'm a genuine apple fan and would of queued up if I could of purchased my phone today. But after seeing photos of queues and the ppl buying them it's obvious they are here to make a quick buck.

Not impressed at all but what can we do about it? They have every right to be at the queue but it does piss me off at the same time. The majority don't work have no responsibilities so they are happy to queue for many many hours.

I've ordered online and it will arrive when it arrives. Can't see apple complaining about all this buzz though.
 
This is great in theory, but there were far too few Apple Store employees around, and again, you're surrounded by people who are at the store for some of the people who are doing this. I can't speak for Glasgow, but here in the USA some of these people are putting tens of thousands of dollars out there in a day, it at least felt like retribution of some sort from this group was plausible.

The launch lines have the Apple employees going down the lines taking orders. So when they come down the line, make the case. Seems pretty simple to me. I've been in two launch lines and each of them had employees coming down taking orders and answering questions.
 
The launch lines have the Apple employees going down the lines taking orders. So when they come down the line, make the case. Seems pretty simple to me. I've been in two launch lines and each of them had employees coming down taking orders and answering questions.

And when his 7 "friends" say "No, he didn't." What will the Apple store employee do? Will the 8 people behind me, who were also buying in a group (and I'm not making either of these numbers up, these are exact) step up and say that they did so?

I suspect that the difference here is probably the volume of these bulk purchasers. Most of the frustrated people are seeing multiple dozens to over a hundred individuals in line for this purpose. Many of you aren't appreciating the scale of disparity between iphone scalpers numbers and people who wanted the phone. A buyer who intended to go home and use the phone was probably outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 at my store.

For further evidence, I could have easily gotten a space grey iPhone 5s today. The Verizon people were nearly at the back of the line, they couldn't give them away. The T-Mobile people had a bunch as well. These stores weren't selling them without a contract/upgrade, so nobody on the line would or could take their offer. The Verizon people did the entire line and had iPhones left, they probably still have some.
 
It gave me laughs when the iPad 3 supplies weren't constraint and they had a huge line of asians returning tons of iPads.
 
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