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http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Session.html

Thats a neat little product too. $50, better than Garageband, works with higher end interfaces and equipment.

Replacing the optical drive on my Sony Vaio required removing the keyboard (two screws), the top plate (another ten screws), a plate on top of the optical drive (three screws), and then the optical drive from a housing (four screws). In fact, I've never seen a PC laptop that lets you get the optical drive out in just one screw (most have you unscrew a plate to get at that one screw).

Well, you are talking about Sony. Sony is essentially Apple of the Windows world. Bad design, low quality components, much higher price tag than the rest.

Every laptop I've ever owned, including HP, is a one screw deal. Loosen the screw on the bottom, pull the drive out, push the new one in, tighten the screw.

On the Macbook, it's three phillips-head screws to get to the pull-tabs. On my Vaio, you'd have to do just as much disassembly as you would to get to the optical drive. (I had to do it more than once.)

You forgot the Torx screws I mentioned. To replace the HDD on the MacBook you have to get a coin to remove the battery, loosen the 3 Philips screws on the "RAM shield", remove that, pull the drive out by the tab, and then you need the odd-sized torx head to remove the screws that hold the metal casing on the HDD. Then after you've swapped the casing, you need to push the drive back in, use a non-magnetic card to slide the tab back in place, put the "RAM shield" back in place, tighten the screws a little, use same card to push the cushions down, fully tighten screws, replace battery using coin to tighten lock. On all of the HPs I've had: Remove battery by sliding lock, remove two screws on a plastic case, lift case, pull HDD out by tab, remove metal casing using standard small Philips screw driver.

My roommate had an Acer Ferrari on which you could replace one stick of RAM by lifting off the keyboard and unscrewing a plate. To replace the other stick of RAM you had to disassemble the machine to the point that you were able to remove the motherboard.

An Acer Ferrari doesn't represent the entire Acer line or the majority of PCs. Currently, the Ferrari line represents their "ultra-portable" line. Its a well known fact that ultra-portables don't follow general standards. The current Ferrari also DOES follow standards.

My Vaio had such a lock. Spring-loaded locks like that easily loosen in a backpack. I ended up having to tape my battery in place in order to use suspend-to-RAM. I'd rather have the rotating lock; I've never needed to change out batteries that often.

I've seen a couple other laptops where the batteries can fall out pretty easily, especially when using a larger high-capacity battery.

So, no, not all PC laptops have the rosy hardware design that you seem to have in mind.

Again, you're talking about Sony. The Apple of the PC world. Bad design, low quality components, overpriced.

All of the notebooks I've had needed a decent amount of force to push the locking switch over the few inches it needed to be to release the battery. Certainly not something that could be done by accident.
 
It is always quite interesting listening to the never ending debate of which is better Mac or PC. Which would you prefer, BMW or Kia? Both get you from point A to B. Have heat and air. Let you listen to your tunes. So why would anyone buy a BMW when they could own a Kia for so much less?

Some find that the additional features, creature comforts, ease of use items, etc. worth the difference and they can afford it. If you don't believe these things are worth the money, there are plenty of dealers who are glad to sell you a Kia. No need to hate on those who choose to make a different choice.

This is a link to Mac vs PC notebook comparison:
---> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-mac-leopard-windows-vista,1985.html

When you compare a Mac feature for feature with a comparable PC notebook from a mainstream manufacturer, the Mac is more expensive but not significantly. Mac or PC? BMW or Kia? Buy/drive what you like and can afford and let's stop the hate. All that really matters in the end is ... are you happy with the choice YOU made.

my$.02
 
It is always quite interesting listening to the never ending debate of which is better Mac or PC. Which would you prefer, BMW or Kia? Both get you from point A to B. Have heat and air. Let you listen to your tunes. So why would anyone buy a BMW when they could own a Kia for so much less?

Some find that the additional features, creature comforts, ease of use items, etc. worth the difference and they can afford it. If you don't believe these things are worth the money, there are plenty of dealers who are glad to sell you a Kia. No need to hate on those who choose to make a different choice.

This is a link to Mac vs PC notebook comparison:
---> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-mac-leopard-windows-vista,1985.html

When you compare a Mac feature for feature with a comparable PC notebook from a mainstream manufacturer, the Mac is more expensive but not significantly. Mac or PC? BMW or Kia? Buy/drive what you like and can afford and let's stop the hate. All that really matters in the end is ... are you happy with the choice YOU made.

my$.02

Good post.
Different users have different tastes.
Different users will find value in different things.
Different users are different users, of which all users should understand.

To the OP, go into the Apple store and try a Mac out, then try a HP running Vista from somewhere else (If your considering a new PC), see what you like best. Look at iLife, then look at whatever HP (for example) gives you. Keep in mind Apple are updating their notebooks soon so if you choose to go Mac wait until then.

For your purposes either platform would work fine. Linux would. I think the Mac offers a better user experience, it lets me get the work done with least problems, there will be those disagree, there is no right answer.
 
...

first off, this endless war is too funny -- if only jerry seinfeld was here to help the debate.

Secondly, I just explained this to my mom who bought a $500 laptop with a low-end processor (less than my 2006 macbook) with 3gb ram and 250gb hardrive (3x what i got speced in mine).

I said "The brain of your computer is slow, but it has very strong arms"

At this point, (to the best of my knowledge) the bottom of line mac offers a better processor than **MOST** PCs -- to get an equivalent processor, you need to buy a top-end PC laptop -- at which point (as a previous poster mentioned) - they are similarly priced. --- The difference -- the Mac for whatever reasons (cashgrab?) comes with wussy arms.

That said, by the time the memory becomes an issue, it will be super cheap to replace it -- I'm upgrading RAM 1.5 years after buying my computer - for a tiny fraction of what it cost then -- and it's only now that I notice a slowdown.

----

With regards to swapping out hardware and how many screws it takes -- no one cares! -- 99.9% of computer users will never open their machine even once. (I remember this from the days of internal 2400bps modems)

--

Surely this must be the definitive posting on the subject, and no more discussion will be needed. Surely.

[someone say ISWYDT]
 
first off, this endless war is too funny -- if only jerry seinfeld was here to help the debate.

Secondly, I just explained this to my mom who bought a $500 laptop with a low-end processor (less than my 2006 macbook) with 3gb ram and 250gb hardrive (3x what i got speced in mine).

I said "The brain of your computer is slow, but it has very strong arms"

At this point, (to the best of my knowledge) the bottom of line mac offers a better processor than **MOST** PCs -- to get an equivalent processor, you need to buy a top-end PC laptop -- at which point (as a previous poster mentioned) - they are similarly priced. --- The difference -- the Mac for whatever reasons (cashgrab?) comes with wussy arms.

That said, by the time the memory becomes an issue, it will be super cheap to replace it -- I'm upgrading RAM 1.5 years after buying my computer - for a tiny fraction of what it cost then -- and it's only now that I notice a slowdown.

----

With regards to swapping out hardware and how many screws it takes -- no one cares! -- 99.9% of computer users will never open their machine even once. (I remember this from the days of internal 2400bps modems)

--

Surely this must be the definitive posting on the subject, and no more discussion will be needed. Surely.

[someone say ISWYDT]
I guess you haven't met the Macbook users that would sacrifice a clock speed multiplier or two for a better GPU solution.
 
This is a link to Mac vs PC notebook comparison:
---> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ista,1985.html

The link to the article you posted has a lot of things wrong. A whole lot.

First I want to point out that Toms Hardware's credibility among hardware enthusiasts has essentially vanished. They went down hill big time in the late 90s and have been at rock bottom ever since. Nobody who knows hardware takes them seriously any more.

But as far as things they got wrong. Well, on the first page they try to say that the Dell XPS has shared memory? A GeForce 8700M GT with shared memory? The baseline XPS M1730 ships with a GeForce 8700M GT with 256MB of GDDR3 memory. For an extra $300 you get dual GPUs running in SLI. To get the XPS M1730 up to the same price as the 17" MacBook Pro you get dual GPUs, Blu-ray, dual HDDs running in RAID 0 400GB. Tom's Hardware mentions the fact that the XPS is 2" thick while the 15.4" MacBook Pro they compare it to is 1" thick. They fail to mention the fact that the MacBook Pro has a metal case and improper cooling, making the system a room heater. They also mention MagSafe being an advantage while not mentioning that its a literal fire hazard and prone to failure.

And why the XPS M1730? Why not a regular consumer notebook? Why do Apple fans always try to compare to the XPS? Because the XPS is more expensive? Stupid. Compare it to a real notebook. Go to HP. The dv7t, 64-bit Vista Home Premium (don't try to say you need ultimate), 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, glass screen, 3GB of RAM, 512MB GeForce 9600M GT, 320GB (2x160) HDD, blu-ray for $1729.99. Similar specs in 15.4" w/blu-ray for $1,452. Get rid of the glass screen and blu-ray on the 15.4" and its $1200.

On the second page they try to build a desktop PC to compare to the Mac Pro. Why are they using a $429 motherboard and $1100 Xeon processors? The Xeon processor is a "workstation" processor that is primarily geared towards SERVER work! A $100 Core 2 motherboard and a 2.83GHz Core 2 Quad would be far faster for nearly all uses. Why are they using $134 RAM? Because its error correcting? You can get it cheaper than that. Plus nearly all people don't need slower ECC RAM anyway. Why include Firewire? eSATA is everywhere these days and the only devices that did use Firewire heavily, dv cams, now use USB 2.0 instead. Why a $320 power supply? You don't need a $320 power supply or a $40 keyboard. You DO NOT need Vista Ultimate either. OS X is not even on the same level as Vista Home Premium.

The next page says what we all know about manufacturers charging more for extra options.

Same for the page after that.

Then theres a page that implies OS X versus Windows. All we hear is that OS X "continues to refine itself" and that it doesn't have a registry and its built off UNIX. Okay, no real information and it sounded more like a sales pitch than something written by someone with more than 90 minutes of experience with OS X.

On the page after that we hear about OS X's interface being drawn by OpenGL and no mention of the fact that Aero users Pixel Shader 2.0. One sided much?

Then we hear about how you can run X11 applications. Who cares?

I like how the author brings up Front Row but doesn't mention how severely crippleid it is compared to Media Center in Vista.

Then after that we hear the author go on and on about how great OS X is and how Vista is "nice".

Even the comments responding to the article blast the author for being one sided and not telling the whole story. That article is written more like an Apple sales pitch than real comparison. As one commenter said, they cherry picked over priced PCs and compared them. Not real systems. Someone in the comments even points out the same HP system I did!

Secondly, I just explained this to my mom who bought a $500 laptop with a low-end processor (less than my 2006 macbook) with 3gb ram and 250gb hardrive (3x what i got speced in mine).

I said "The brain of your computer is slow, but it has very strong arms"

At this point, (to the best of my knowledge) the bottom of line mac offers a better processor than **MOST** PCs -- to get an equivalent processor, you need to buy a top-end PC laptop -- at which point (as a previous poster mentioned) - they are similarly priced. --- The difference -- the Mac for whatever reasons (cashgrab?) comes with wussy arms.

Processor speed isn't everything. Unlike OS X, which does everything in software, Vista takes advantage of the hardware for specific tasks. Playing a video? GPU does it. Playing audio? Sound processor does it.

OS X and other OS X software are also very very inefficient with CPU cycles. Throw Windows on your MacBook and watch the difference in how the very same software eats up CPU cycles. Overall task speed is the same in Windows and OS X, but in OS X it eats up more CPU time. Just look at how much CPU time Safari or Firefox or iTunes eats up in OS X compared to Windows. I sometimes see Firefox in OS X eating up 60% TOTAL CPU time, thats BOTH cores being used. Same goes for Safari. In Windows? never even half of one core.

You have to buy a top-end PC to match a Mac in terms of CPU speed? Not at all. When I got this MacBook I have now, 2.16GHz Core 2 Duo, my $900 HP shipped with a 2GHz Core 2 Duo. Now for $1200 you can get a PC with the same processor and much faster GPU than the MacBook Pro.

CPU speed means very little when talking about overall system speed. CPU speed only matters so much in OS X because it is very inefficient and it as well as other applications in OS X eat up ridiculous amounts of CPU time rather than being optimized.
 
The link to the article you posted has a lot of things wrong. A whole lot.

First I want to point out that Toms Hardware's credibility among hardware enthusiasts has essentially vanished. They went down hill big time in the late 90s and have been at rock bottom ever since. Nobody who knows hardware takes them seriously any more.

(snip snip)

CPU speed means very little when talking about overall system speed. CPU speed only matters so much in OS X because it is very inefficient and it as well as other applications in OS X eat up ridiculous amounts of CPU time rather than being optimized.

Thanks for a great post. I hate how we can't all get along. None of the systems are perfect, and both have ups and downs. People seem to forget that a lot.
 
You haven't proved anything.
You originally said
Show me musicians that use Garageband seriously. Real musicians.
So apart from
Oasis
Justice
Radiohead
plus a few other established musicians
Courtney Love, Limp Bizkit, Panic! At The Disco and Scout Niblett
Nine Inch Nails
Erasure
Rihanna
Kate Nash

Dave 'Deptford' Pine, (head of Point Blank music college, whose CV includes work with The Smiths, Massive Attack and Leftfield.)

Fall Out Boy
Mountain Mirrors 

Phantom Music Box 

Draz 

Cricket Rumor Mill 

Blue James Band 

Rantings of EVA 

CM4TBLY NUMB 

Imaginary Maps 

Seven Reasons 

Lo Mass Republic
I realise that you will say none of the above are respectable - but you lose.

You've deliberately twisted other statements of mine and flat out lied about things I've said. It's truly sad.
As is asking about compatibility issues with third party DVD players. Thats just another very cheap attempt at making Windows look bad. Compatibility issues are essentially a thing of the past. I haven't had any kind of "compatibility issues" since... well, honestly I never had in Windows. I've never heard of any true compatibility issues like those the Apple fans and Apple itself try to bring up. Like a couple of years ago at WWDC "PC" mentioned something about compatibility issues in the video before the keynote speech. What compatibility issues? Let's not forget Leopard's blue screen of death at launch thanks to a third party app. Thats a real compatibility issue ;)

Still no twisting. I asked two direct questions - do all versions of Vista have DVD decoders and are the third party ones compatible. Considering you keep ranting at me about this means I am unlikely to ask your advice when I try and decide if to upgrade or replace my XP box. How is asking two straight forward questions a cheap attempt at making Windows look bad, and how is it twisting your statement?
Please don't call me a liar - that's not polite either.

You're free to believe whatever you wish, even if it is false.
If you had an argument with evidence you would not need to resort to name calling.
You just called me a liar and the following are some of what you've have said recently
idiotic Apple fanboy
elitest Mac owner
I see most Mac owners as foolish people

I have yet to see any respectable sites not hosted by Mobile Me/.mac that were made and published with iWeb.

http://www.andrewmuto.com
http://andrew-smothers.adsportal.org
http://www.andyhoffner.com
http://www.athwang.com
http://www.audioeric.com
http://www.bobbymeeks.com/bObByMeEKs/oPEN.html
http://www.boisypitre.com/
http://bradclark.co.uk/bc/about_Brad_Clark.html
http://www.butterflyink.us/
http://kcassam.free.fr/cassamchenai/Bienvenue.html
http://www.chicagolarry.com/ChicagoLarry/Home.html
http://www.chrisnesbit.com/Chris_Nesbit/Home.html
I would post more but I got bored. There are 13 there which is considered unlucky for some - in this case - you.

I also have yet to see any respectable musician, professional or otherwise, use Garageband. So you still have yet to prove your points.
See list above - point proven

Why would anyone choose to use iMovie over a superior product? Why would any logical person switch to a Mac for the iLife apps when the Windows apps that ship with their DV cam, photo printers, and other products are superior to those in the iLife suite?
Its still personal choice - you advocate choice - here it is in action.

Going in and modifying the code to publish on a different server. iWeb is all about the one click publishing to Mobile Me. When you don't use that you have to go in and edit the code to be able to work with a different host. You have to first publish the site to a folder and then go in and upload everything manually and change the code to reflect the directory listings and host you're using.
Upload site to FTP client - it isn't difficult.

So I guess Britney Spears is a respectable musician? I mean, she did sell over 80 million albums worldwide.
The thing with music is that its ridiculously cheap ($10 CD) and any idiot can make something that appeals to a mass of people. That doesn't make them good or "respectable".
By your logic, 50 Cent is a respectable musician as well.
Obviously I realise that only bands that you consider to be "respectable" can qualify but I posted a list above - there's even some Indie bands on it.
You so lost this argument a long time ago

You didn't quote anything respectable. And quite honestly, every single thing you've said has been nothing more than typical Mac user drivel that any PC user with common sense knows is false.
Your "respectable" clause yet again. Your friends and everyone you know ran out of steam - so you have the "respectable clause. I posted a PC friendly website - they said where they got their data from. You gave only your opinion. And you're still being rude.

Why is it sad? People are using what they want and need. At least they have the choice of what software to run on the hardware they want. They can buy whatever hardware fits their needs and run whatever software fits their needs. They're not told they have to buy THIS hardware with THIS software or nothing.
It's all about choice either way. Choice between PC or Mac - if the user is happy then no problem. My brother-in-law is happy with his PC - I am happy with my Mac. We both had a choice and we're both happy, which is nice.

How can I possibly know what HP was selling? Well, because I help several people per week buy new computer hardware so I regularly check sites like hp.com, Dell.com, gateway.com, ibuypower.com, newegg.com, etc. Ever since Vista was released, HP has ONLY sold XP on very low end hardware and not until well after Vista was released. They never sold it on high end hardware and they never sold it on their mainstream consumer lines after Vista's release. Their business line only has it on a limited number of machines with very few options.
I should have known that you field of expertise would expand to cover computer salesman for HP. Did you ever ask for XP instead of Vista? No don't answer that question - I already know the answer.

If it was a true loophole that Microsoft was so "scared" of, don't you think they would have closed it by now? All EULAs have wording that state that the agreement can change at any time. So Microsoft really could change their agreements and contracts. It's not that difficult.
MS noticed people weren't buying Vista at any great rate - so still allow a downgrade loophole to continue to keep up sales and still gain a Vista license sale. Seems fair enough. I can't blame them for that.

The $300m advertising campaign is to repair their image. Their image has been damaged mostly by ignorant media outlets and fans alternative products who really don't know what they're talking about.
Of course it can't be MS's fault they botched it up in the first place. It has to be everyone else's fault.

Because, again, 800 or 3,000 people somehow represent hundreds of millions?
Only in your eyes have I not proven my argument.
Let me know when your opinion along with everyone you know - proves your argument. I quoted pages who quoted their source - you did not. In a game of numbers my 800/3000 beats you and your friends.

Using the "downgrade" argument against Vista is just flat out stupid. People have legitimate reasons for wanting XP over Vista, as I explained in my previous posts. Trying to say Vista is bad because people prefer something else is just flat out stupid and trying to use that argument against Vista is, again, stupid. Especially considering that there are more than 7x the people using Vista than there are Macs in total.
There you go again another insult followed by the "There are more Vista users than Mac users so my argument is correct" statement. Still no evidence so your still wrong.

Microsoft got in trouble for integrating IE into Windows 98. Thats all they got in trouble for.
Not in the back waters of the EU - they've recently been fined heavily over Vista and anti-competitive practices and its on going.
Sorry I've trimmed out the body of you post, because it was rambling a bit about your opinion on Apple. If they are breaking the law then they will be punished.

History of what? Apple CHOOSES to be the gate keeper with the App Store.
I should hope so - its their shop.

With music DRM, people can blame the record labels all they want. If Apple wanted DRM to be gone on their music it would be gone. But it locks people into the iPod. People aren't just going to walk away to another player if they've spent even $100 on music at iTunes.
Steve wanted it dropped - some agreed some didn't. Apple don't own the music and they cannot sell it as they want.


I'm sorry, but if I call a company and their phone support is located within the US and the person I'm speaking to has a very thick Spanish accent and can barely understand what I'm saying, then I am going to question whether that person is here legally or not. If they are not here legally then they should be sent home. If you don't like that then that is too bad.
The fact that you first thought is - "they must be an illegal immigrant because they have a thick Spanish accent" speaks volumes. This is a bigoted thought process. You are also basically assuming Apple would employ illegal immigrants.

Nice way of saying you've lost and you know it.
Really?
Just to re-quote you
You're referring to the fact that there are well over 1 billion Windows PCs in the world.

Which is kind of an idiotic thing to do.

You're completely overlooking the fact that the majority of those PCs are in countries where the people simply cannot afford to upgrade their hardware to a level that can run Vista. Nearly all of these PCs are running hardware that was high end around the time XP was launched, maybe even weaker.

It's completely idiotic to make that kind of comparison when the vast majority of those PCs simply cannot run Vista (nor would an equally as old Mac be able to run Leopard) and those PCs are generally in areas where they cannot be upgraded because of economic/money issues.

So what you are saying here is that Microsoft put Vista out into the world knowing that out of the "over a billion" Windows users (1.25 billion actually) the vast majority would not be able to use it because it was all to expensive. MS have a global presence and do market research. Are you seriously suggesting they would do this. Basically - lock out the vast majority of their user base because they are poor. This ignores your preaching about how cheap it all is to buy PC and Windows because you're contradicting yourself then.

Yes, the way you're acting is getting quite embarrassing. You're giving Mac owners a bad name and, quite frankly, you need to quit.
I will when I'm ready - not when you would like me too.

So feel free to show me some sites that were made with iWeb that are not hosted by Mobile Me.
I have - I doubt they are respectable enough by your unknown standards but I put a few up anyway.

And as I said before, going by your logic, Britney Spears is more respectable than either one because she has sold far more than both combined.
I have no opinion on Ms. Spears and her respectability.

Yet another example of you hearing what you want to hear and choosing to ignore the entire story. I said nearly every user made video on youtube. Not every. You can go and see for yourself. The edits, text, etc. all prove what videos were edited with virtualdub.
What you said was from post https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/549348/ post number 109
Have you ever watched youtube? Every edited movie on there is done by VirtualDub (freeware) and its almost always just text and music edited in.
I have underlined "every" so you can't miss it.

I'm sorry you can't accept the truth. But you picking and choosing what you want to hear and trying to put that forward as fact is getting both old and foolish.
See above post

Now you're just getting funny. And if everyone wanted iMovie in its current form, there wouldn't have been such a backlash forcing Apple to release that older version, right?
Didn't I just say that. Customers not happy. Apple re-issue old version to make them happy. Apple listened to customers. Doh.

I like how you keep saying "you're wrong". It's becoming painfully obvious that you're just trying to convince yourself that you're right.
Considering you still haven't backed up anything you've said with any quotable figures its very difficult to state otherwise.

Let's ask those uploaders how many of those movies were edited by iMovie, shall we?
Please do - get back to me with your results. Obviously you feel YouTube is the respectable site to gain opinion on.

I have nothing against a race of people in general, especially considering I am of mixed background. I do have a problem with someone illegally coming to a country, not paying taxes, and generally living off the fruits of legal residents labor. If you want to come to this country you must do it legally. My ancestors did it and so should they.
Please don't try and hide your bigotry by saying you're of mixed race - anyone can be a bigot. You decided that this person must be an illegal immigrant without any evidence other than the fact they had a thick accent.

And I most certainly did not pay $1406 for a "premium" computer so that part of the profit I have paid the manufacturer can go to fund paychecks of illegal immigrants. I may not like "Indian tech support" but at least they're doing their job legally.
And so you now directly accuse Apple of employing illegal immigrants.

I will no longer continue to discuss these topics with you, not because in anyway do I concede any argument I have put forward but because you have shown yourself to be a bigot and also made unbelievable claims about Apples employment practices.
It is these claims added to the unsubstantiated claims you've made in discussion with me and the constant insults and insulting comments that I feel no need to discuss anything further with you.
 
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The only thing I don't like is that it doesn't have dedicated graphics. If it had dedicated graphics that kept up with what similar PCs were offering, I wouldn't have any real issues with it other than OS X randomly crashing.

I think the three biggest new things about the next MacBook will be:
1. Aluminium
2. LED-display
3. Dedicated Video card

That is what I think is going to happen.
 
Courtney Love

Somebody with no real musical talent. Just living off of the fact that she was married to Kurt Cobain.

Limp Bizkit

Oh please. My dog has more musical talent than Fred Durst. The fact that he got a record contract shows that the recording industry needs to be killed off and restarted.

Panic! At The Disco

Heh, who? Yes I know who they are but thats what most people will say.

Nine Inch Nails

If "Closer" was their one hit, then "The Perfect Drug" was their famous B Side and Trent Reznor has done nothing good since then (and Garageband wasn't around then!) other than speak out against the Big 4.


As I said above "who?" heh. They sound like an 80s pop group that can't let the 80s go.

With that kind of sound its not difficult to believe they would use Garageband.


Because she makes her own music right? I mean she writes the music, plays the instruments, records them, etc.

Oh and shes not famous just because shes a sex symbol. She has actual "talent", right? And her music isn't just repetitive techno beats that people have been pumping out on their MIDI soundcards since the 90s, right?

Kate Nash

Seriously, you think shes a "respectable" musician? Her and the rest of the bands you listed are... well, more proof that the recording industry needs reworked.

But it is good to see you can come up with a list of one hit wonders and celebrities living off of someone elses celebrity. That really speaks volumes about the quality of Garageband ;)

How is asking two straight forward questions a cheap attempt at making Windows look bad, and how is it twisting your statement?

Because it wasn't a straight forward question. It was an in-direct attempt to make Windows look bad. Anyone with a shred of common sense knows that third party DVD players do not cause issues, especially someone who supposedly runs Windows already, and asking such a question is just a pathetic attempt at a cheap shot at the OS.

If you had an argument with evidence you would not need to resort to name calling.
You just called me a liar and the following are some of what you've have said recently
idiotic Apple fanboy
elitest Mac owner
I see most Mac owners as foolish people

If somebody lies then I call them a liar. Thats how the world works.

Whats this about "an argument with evidence"? You're the one making claims saying that iWeb is useful, that Garageband is used by respectable musicians. But what have you shown so far? You post links to peoples blogs and they generally all look the same with only very minor differences between them. The list of musicians you make is well.... Let's say I was an aspiring musician myself. If I came here and read this and saw Courtney Love, NIN, and Kate Nash were using Garageband, I'd stay about as far away from that software as I could.

Better yet, your argument for Windows being bad is based on small forum and website polls. You somehow claim that 800 people represents 260m. Thats just one of the stupid things I've ever heard.

I would post more but I got bored. There are 13 there which is considered unlucky for some - in this case - you.

How so? None of those sites are "respectable". They're all blogs and personal sites. Stuff nobody cares about. Give me REAL websites. I don't care about what people have to say or some random guys pictures I've never met and don't care to meet. Show me some REAL WEBSITES.

Whats even worse about those websites is how generic they look. They all share common traits. They all look like they're using mass produced graphics and templates, which of course they are. I mean, it honestly looks like one single person designed every site. Despite the differences, they all generally look the same in one way or another. Now I know Apple fans don't mind everything looking the same as the other, but most people DO want individuality and that makes iWeb even more useless. Why would any right minded person want to make a site that looks like everyone elses? They want it to look like its theirs.

All you just did was prove my point about iWeb being useless and you proved that iWeb, overall, isn't very good when it is used. Who wants a generic site? Who wants their site to look like everyone elses site? Not me.

Obviously I realise that only bands that you consider to be "respectable" can qualify but I posted a list above - there's even some Indie bands on it.
You so lost this argument a long time ago

How did I lose this argument again? You posted bands that are or were one hit wonders, one musician living off of her dead husband, and some very atrocious music in general.

So you have yet to show me any respectable bands using Garageband. If Nine Inch Nails and Courtney Love are the best you can do for your argument supporting Garageband, then you just made an even better argument AGAINST Garageband.

By the way, wheres your proof that Courtney Love uses Garageband? I just want to make sure of it. Because I just did a google search for "Courtney Love Garageband" and all it turns up is results to the site garageband.com and her name being mentioned. Thats it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/oct/18/news.apple is that your proof? You better have more than that, because all it says is that 3 of the bands you listed "plugged their mic into their Mac and recorded instant demos" in so many words. Which brings us back to the point I made. Anyone who uses their Mac's integrated soundcard and relies on it to produce quality doesn't know anything about sound quality or, really, what they're doing in general. And of course it brings up the point that we all know, that Nine Inch Nails only released the files so people could edit songs in Garageband. Not that they use it to make their own music. Even though their music is bad enough that one might suggest that they really do use it to produce their music..

Your "respectable" clause yet again. Your friends and everyone you know ran out of steam - so you have the "respectable clause. I posted a PC friendly website - they said where they got their data from. You gave only your opinion. And you're still being rude.

And where did they get their data from? Forum users? A poll of people visiting their site? Where are the numbers from the OEMs?

And, again, 800 people, 3,000 people, not even 100,000 people represent the feelings of those who bought 260m licenses. There is no way you can ever twist that argument to work in your favor.

I should have known that you field of expertise would expand to cover computer salesman for HP. Did you ever ask for XP instead of Vista? No don't answer that question - I already know the answer.

I deal with all brands ;) Stop twisting my words.

Of all the people who wanted XP over Vista thanks to Apple's ads.. when I let them play with Vista for a little bit, they wanted to know how Apple got away with lying the way they do.

MS noticed people weren't buying Vista at any great rate - so still allow a downgrade loophole to continue to keep up sales and still gain a Vista license sale. Seems fair enough. I can't blame them for that.

Oh please. Vista wasn't selling "at any great rate"? The adoption rate for Vista was higher than XP, even though some foolish Apple related sites tried to spin that with "percentages". Whats even funnier is how Steve Jobs got up on stage and made fun of Vista sales, even though Vista had already surpassed the total number of Mac users by that point.

Its absolutely hilarious when Apple and the fans try to use this. Even with you now. "Oh haha Vista isn't selling well!" Yeah, it's sold 10x the number of Mac users total. Thats somehow bad! How well has Leopard sold so far? How well CAN it sell? How fast can Leopard reach 260m sold? Vista did it in a year and a half. Leopard is less than a year old so it has plenty of time left to reach that number.

Of course it can't be MS's fault they botched it up in the first place. It has to be everyone else's fault.

Oh? And what did Microsoft do to their own reputation?

Let me know when your opinion along with everyone you know - proves your argument. I quoted pages who quoted their source - you did not. In a game of numbers my 800/3000 beats you and your friends.

So are you a stand-up comedian or something?

800 or 3,000 people DO NOT represent 260m licenses sold.

Thats like saying California represents the US as a whole. Come on. Stop being ridiculous. Somehow, the rest of the 299m people in the country want to be like the 1m in LA. Right.

There you go again another insult followed by the "There are more Vista users than Mac users so my argument is correct" statement. Still no evidence so your still wrong.

Wheres your evidence that Vista is "bad"? Wheres your evidence that people are switching to XP from Vista in LARGE NUMBERS? Eh? Come on, let's see some real proof. Not just the opinions of a small number of people.

Not in the back waters of the EU - they've recently been fined heavily over Vista and anti-competitive practices and its on going.

In the EU they got in trouble for bundling Media Player. Real realized that nobody was downloading their software. They ignored the fact that Real Player is awful in general and thats why nobody likes it, and went to the EU and cried.

Microsoft had the guts to stand up and say the whole thing was stupid and thats why its still on-going.

Sorry I've trimmed out the body of you post, because it was rambling a bit about your opinion on Apple. If they are breaking the law then they will be punished.

Of course you trimmed my post. Because you don't want to have to reply to the points I made about Apple breaking US law and breaking the DMCA they love to use oh so much against other people.

I should hope so - its their shop.

And its not a monopoly at all. You know, I think you're the first person out of all of the Apple sites I visit that actually said something remotely positive about Apple's grip on the App Store.

Steve wanted it dropped - some agreed some didn't. Apple don't own the music and they cannot sell it as they want.

Oh please. If he really wanted it gone he'd have it gone by now. iTunes sells more music than anyone else in the US. If Jobs wanted the DRM gone he could go to the record companies and say that they will not sell their music unless its DRM free. Do you really think the record companies want to lose their biggest source of money that continues to grow? Of course not. They'd bend in a heartbeat at the thought of losing their music. A few years ago, I remember reading an interview with a record exec that said he was afraid of Wal-Mart shrinking their CD sales section if the record companies didn't lower their wholesale prices.

But heres the thing. We all know that Apple loves to nickel and dime people to death. They can continue to sell DRM'ed low quality music until the sales do start to slow. At that point they can make iTunes Plus storewide and charge everyone for the song upgrades. Even though Napster and others give their customers free upgrades, Apple can and already does charge users for their upgrades.

But why give people DRM free when they continue to be happy with being locked in when they really just don't know yet that they're locked in?

The fact that you first thought is - "they must be an illegal immigrant because they have a thick Spanish accent" speaks volumes. This is a bigoted thought process. You are also basically assuming Apple would employ illegal immigrants.

Well, to legally work in this country your English skills have to be somewhat fluent and you have to be able to understand other people well. The outsourced tech support of HP has a better time understanding their customers than the person I'm referring to at Apple.

And how does it speak volumes? Honestly, this is going beyond stupid now. You're trying to use something thats common sense against me to make me look bad. All its doing is backfiring on you and making you look incredibly foolish. If you lived in the US you'd know that the majority of people here greatly dislike illegal immigrants and when we hear or see or know of a situation where an illegal worker is taking the spot of a legal resident, we get upset.

So what you are saying here is that Microsoft put Vista out into the world knowing that out of the "over a billion" Windows users (1.25 billion actually) the vast majority would not be able to use it because it was all to expensive. MS have a global presence and do market research. Are you seriously suggesting they would do this. Basically - lock out the vast majority of their user base because they are poor. This ignores your preaching about how cheap it all is to buy PC and Windows because you're contradicting yourself then.

This has gone well beyond stupid now.

You ignore the fact that XP is still being sold in developing countries. It's not a matter of Vista being too expensive so much as it is that the hardware being used there is generally older, or its too expensive for people there to buy new hardware to be able to run the new OS.

Computer hardware is actually more expensive in developing countries. Buying a computer there that is considered low-end here in the US would generally require a full 3 months of an average salary on those countries.

It's not that Microsoft is locking out people in these countries. They can buy Vista if they want to, theres even cheaper versions of Vista available in those countries. It's the simple fact of the matter that the economic situations in those countries prevents people from buying what we consider "modern" hardware that Vista (and Leopard) is optimized for.

You're also ignoring the fact (I'm so tired of saying that) that Microsoft offers CHOICES for the people in those countries. Microsoft still makes XP available to them because they know that the hardware that is actually affordable will run XP beautifully. But they make all forms of Vista, including those made for those countries, available.

Looking at those countries, wheres Apple at? I see iPods and iPhones in Africa, but where is Apple advertising their computers?

Let's look at the Philippines for a minute. Not a poor country but not exactly rich either. I see all major PC manufacturers there offering their "low-end" products all the way up to their high end notebooks with dedicated graphics. I see the iPhone there. I see iPods. But where are the Macs?

You want to accuse Microsoft of locking people out because they can't afford the product, but its actually quite the opposite. Microsoft not only makes standard versions of XP and Vista available in nearly all regions, but they have tailored made copies of the OS available as well that are significantly cheaper. Microsoft makes software available in these countries that, again, can actually run on the hardware that the people can afford.

All while Apple does what? You accuse Microsoft of locking people out who can't afford their product, but in reality, Apple, beyond the iPod and iPhone, is nowhere to be found. Apple is the company locking customers out because they can't afford their products.

You see Microsoft, Dell, HP, Acer, Asus, and many others making products for these developing countries all while Apple snubs them because they can't afford to spend 4 or 5 months salary on an entry level MacBook. But others are willing to recognize the potential of the people and the markets so they make products that these people can buy and can use. But Apple won't do it because that would mean *gasp* no longer pricing their units 2 to 3x above the cost of an equivalent PC.

This kind of stuff makes me sick. People accuse Microsoft of all of these bad things, like snubbing developing markets, or just being evil in general. All while Apple completely ignores the markets simply because they can't afford their overpriced hardware. Instead of bringing hardware prices down to reasonable levels and jumping on the opportunity to overtake Microsoft and Linux in these markets, Apple snubs them and continues their nickel and diming ways. Apple continues to do things like illegally locking the iPhone or pretending to be the champion of DRM free music while still using it as their best tool to maintain their monopoly on the iPods.

When people make comments about Microsoft and PC manufacturers being bad, while they're attempting to bring developing countries into the modern market and Apple and Jobs sit by and count their profits, it shows how ignorant the person who is who made that comment.

I have underlined "every" so you can't miss it.

Nice way to take a generalization literally. But I guess you were too busy thinking about how great Apple and thinking poorly of Microsoft to realize it was a generalization, right?
 
Didn't I just say that. Customers not happy. Apple re-issue old version to make them happy. Apple listened to customers. Doh.

Other than this one time, when has Apple ever listened to the customers? The iPhone refund? Please. Why don't we have dedicated graphics in the MacBook yet? Why are Mac prices still 2-3x higher than PC prices? Why don't we have copy and paste on the iPhone and iPod touch? Why don't older iPods get software updates with new features like the Zune and every other MP3 player? Why don't we have standard video ports on the MacBook yet? I could go on and on. Apple doesn't listen to customers. They listen to shareholders and whatever makes a profit.

Considering you still haven't backed up anything you've said with any quotable figures its very difficult to state otherwise.

Says the one who thinks 800 people represent 260m.

Please don't try and hide your bigotry by saying you're of mixed race - anyone can be a bigot. You decided that this person must be an illegal immigrant without any evidence other than the fact they had a thick accent.

Oh please. This thread has gotten about as stupid as it can now. I don't think it could possibly get any more stupid.

Just quit. You're embarrassing the decent people who own Macs.

Any right minded person who isn't afraid to say what they think or try to remain politically correct would think the same thing when they hear someone with an incredibly thick accent that can barely speak English and has even more trouble understanding well spoken English.

Seriously, just quit with this. There isn't a word in the English dictionary that can describe just how stupid this is and how stupid it is for your to continue on with this.

I will no longer continue to discuss these topics with you, not because in anyway do I concede any argument I have put forward but because you have shown yourself to be a bigot and also made unbelievable claims about Apples employment practices.
It is these claims added to the unsubstantiated claims you've made in discussion with me and the constant insults and insulting comments that I feel no need to discuss anything further with you.

It would be nice to see you not reply any more. You bring nothing to the debate. Your tactics of accusing me of "bigotry" basically put you below school yard insults. Basically, everything you say drags down the entire community of people who do like their Mac. If people saw you and thought the entire Mac community was anything like you, then Apple's marketshare would drop significantly. No right minded person would want to be associated with someone who would resort to such childish tactics and insults.

People like you are one of the reasons I got fed up with my Mac. I generally don't care what people think of me, but being associated with someone like you because of the fact that I own a Mac is something I don't want hovering over my head. Even if I was still an Apple supporter, I'd do everything possible to distance myself from people like you.

I think the three biggest new things about the next MacBook will be:
1. Aluminium
2. LED-display
3. Dedicated Video card

That is what I think is going to happen.

That'd be great. Dedicated graphics should have been in there all along. It's too bad Apple doesn't have an upgrade program like other manufacturers do. That way those of us who have MacBooks now could at least get a significant discount on the new hardware.
 
I'd like to clarify that Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) uses Pro Tools, not Garageband. I'd also like to point out, mosx, that your opinion of an artist does not decide whether they are respectable or not. If you think Closer and The Perfect Drug are Trent's best songs, or you think they're the most popular, or that that has any bearing on anything, then you have a seriously ****ed up view of music. Pretty Hate Machine and the tracks contained on it is the most famous work Trent's ever done, not because it sold 500 million albums (which it didn't), but because it built onto a genre that was just starting to take notice in the underground, and helped it to grow into something great and quite original. Skinny Puppy and Nine Inch Nails are perhaps the biggest shapers of the sound of an entire genre, more than one could say for many bands. One thing you've also seemed to forget is that when the record industry was plagued with crap like Limp Bizkit, Trent took his sweet time to do something with The Fragile that was important - actually make music that meant something, more for himself than anyone else. That's more than one can say about most bands, especially nowadays. Also the fact that I've been to two Nine Inch Nails shows in my life, one recently and one a few years ago after the release of what many consider his worst album, and both times they were sold out at large venues (Joe Louis Arena and the Palace of Auburn Hills), tells me that you're a bit wrong about Nine Inch Nails being a "one-hit wonder band." One-hit-wonders generally don't continue to sell out shows twenty years after they begin.

Now, of course, I know this won't be considered deprimental to your argument, as only bands that you like are "respectable," by your standards, but I figured I'd say something.

Oh, and by the way, what do you think of Berklee College of Music, in Boston? One of the most well-known and best music colleges in the world. Guess what kinds of computers they use?

;)
 
sooo yea, how bout those 15" monitors guys?

mosx and that other guy need to stop fighting, or take it to a different thread. (but it is clear who is based off facts and who is just blind hatred.)
 
Enough trolling, this guy went from having a different viewpoint to making himself look like an over opinionated tool.
 
Enough trolling, this guy went from having a different viewpoint to making himself look like an over opinionated tool.

It's pretty clear this forum has absolutely zero moderation when a nutjob troll like Mosx runs wild.

I wish I could go around spouting utter BS in the real world without a shred of anything to back it up. How's that working out for you, Mosx? When someone differs in opinion, do you correct them because it doesn't fall in line with yours? Is "your friends don't like it" a valid reasoning method where you work?

Gotta run. I've gotta go fire off an e-mail to Radiohead and all those other bands and let them know they're irrelevant according to some guy on an internet forum, so they know it's time to throw in the towel. :D
 
Just catching up on this thread after a rush job kept me up most the night.

Whew! Seems like some people really have a LOT of free time...or they very highly prioritize debating PC vs. Mac issues.:p
 
New User

New user and this is my first post. I hope I'm getting it back on topic but just wanted to share my experience between a Sony Viao CR-390 and the new Blackbook I just bought. Specs below:

Sony Viao: Intel T7250@2 Ghz/2GB RAM/250 GB SATA HDD/DVD Burner /Vista Home Premium(DVD burner is tray loaded)

Apple Mac (Black): Intel T8300@2.4 Ghz/2 GB RAM/250 GB/Superdrive/Leopard

The Sony was great for about 2 months until I started getting BSODs, long shutdown times, inability to use the wireless connection for no apparent reason, extremely slow performance, etc. Battery life sucked at barely 2 hours. Vista was pleasant to use but it crashed all the time and was terribly slow. And that was even after I installed Service Pack One via One Care. Using the computer became such a PITA that I said "to hell with it" and bought the Macbook.

I have yet to experience a crash and this Mac just works, period. The OS is logical and intuitive for me. Wireless hookup is effortless and works every time. No troubleshooting and messing around every day to get things to work. It just works right the first time. Applications run much faster and are much more stable. Installs are a breeze. I've been using Windows for 20 years and (had it not been for Vista) would still be using it because XP, for the most part is trouble free and gets the job done. So far I like this Mac. Build quaity seems on par with the Sony Viao but ergonomics are better and I like the Mac's cleaner design.

A good analogy between using the Sony (PC) and the Mac is like the difference between driving my wife's Jeep and driving my VW. The VW feels more solid, more stable, no rattles or check engine lights and goes where I point it--kinda like the Mac. Efficient, solid, smooth, and hassle-free.

As for the Sony, I downgraded it to XP and it runs like a champ. It will be my wife's new computer. My other two older PCs are running XP which is fine for the kids.

This has been an entertaining forum to read. In my own personal opinion and experience, Vista is the worst OS MS ever came up with (I had Windows ME back in the day and I had fewer problems with 1 1/2 years of ME than I did in 6 miserable months of using Vista). It's buggy, slow, hogs resources, and really offers no additional functionality over XP. My Mac has XP installed under Parallels and guess what--it runs faster on the Mac as a virtual machine than it does on the Sony!

If MS comes up with an OS that's worth a damn replacing Vista maybe I'll once again own a new Windows machine. However for me this Mac does everything my PCs do...only faster and better. Don't get me wrong: Microsoft's has made some great products like XP, Office, One Care, Hotmail, Windows 98 SE, Windows 95, etc--used them for years and loved 'em. But they also laid a few eggs and Vista is a notable example right alongside Microsoft BOB, Windows ME, and the craptastic Internet Explorer.

I say get whatever works for you--but for me I'm glad I bought this Macbook and don't miss the daily Vista headaches, system lock ups, BSODs, and calls to Sony tech support. For me it's the Macbook and XP on my PCs--works for me.
 
So whats that eSATA-looky-like thingy on the MacBook pro? Okay so Apple calls it an 'Expansion Port' but the guy in the Apple Store says its an eSata port.

Nobody at the Apple Store said it was an eSata port unless everyone in your area is a moron.

I really think that you just heard that it was an eSata port or your mind just told you something different.

I honestly feel the $1099 or higher is too high for the MacBooks as well.

A tech guy I work with just paid $449 for a new Dell that has 2GB Ram and 160 hard drive. It has a 15.4 screen.

I would rather have a Mac product with what I feel like I know but I just don't see paying twice the price.

So you are preaching the classic: "I want this therefore it should be in my price range and affordable for me." type of argument.

I couldn't afford my first Mac brand new either, so I bought refurbished. Stop being a:
 

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Holy macro these mulitquote replies are ridiculous.

And with regard to the topic at hand: It comes in one size only because when you buy think of a MacBook, Apple wants only two images to come to mind, not a zillion different sizes and colors.
 
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