Spoilers What Movie Are You Watching?

[twietee]

I'd go with the Final Cut of Blade Runner since I wasn't born when the Thearetical Cut was shown hence no nostalgia whatsoever. The Director's Cut isn't really cut by the director - which would be the Final Cut - and also got the "happy ending", which I don't see in BR.

I also saw the Workprint version last year and really liked that one too.

Lovely movie.

 

[fitshaced]

Jack Reacher

sorry @fitshaced ...

I watched it on a plane a few years ago and thought it was really bad. There was no way the book series was going to be worse..... so I read Killing Floor.
[doublepost=1453676491][/doublepost]I watched Straight out of Compton at the weekend. Good movie. I was impressed how they pulled off the Ice Cube likeness.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I'd go with the Final Cut of Blade Runner since I wasn't born when the Thearetical Cut was shown hence no nostalgia whatsoever. The Director's Cut isn't really cut by the director - which would be the Final Cut - and also got the "happy ending", which I don't see in BR.

I also saw the Workprint version last year and really liked that one too.

Lovely movie.

Yes, but what about the ambiguous ending, or the unhappy ending? I like it when movies dare to be brave on such matters.

For example, the having the courage of your convictions and hitting a note which hints at the bitter sweet integrity of art - when Holly Didn't Get The Girl - at the very end of The Third Man is one of a great many things which make this a flawless - and utterly outstanding movie - to my mind.

 

[S.B.G]

After you see it, maybe you could report just how happy the ending of your version is. I watched it a couple of years ago and seem to remember him

Spoiler

taking off with a replicate indicating an emotional, implied romantic commitment to her.

Yeah, the version I own, has him waking her up at the end, kissing her and then that's about it and it cuts to the credits. So, sort of a happy ending I suppose.

 

[MRU]

After you see it, maybe you could report just how happy the ending of your version is. I watched it a couple of years ago and seem to remember him

Spoiler

taking off with a replicate indicating an emotional, implied romantic commitment to her.

That heading off scene was actually just footage grafted onto the film from 'The Shining' ironically to give it a happyish ending feeling after poor response from test audiences.

 

[twietee]

Yes, but what about the ambiguous ending, or the unhappy ending? I like it when movie dare to be brave on such matters.

For example, the having the courage of your convictions and hitting a note which hints at the bitter sweet integrity of art - when Holly Didn't Get The Girl - at the very end of The Third Man is one of a great many things which make this a flawless - and utterly outstanding movie - to my mind.

Oh, I completely agree with you - seems like a misunderstanding. I think an ambigious ending / or bitter-sweet ending is absolutely apropriate for Blade Runner.

But I just learned that both versions, the Director's Cut and the Final Cut, have what we shall call a bitter-sweet ending - (both include the unicorn scenes but only the Final Cut has the voice-overs that add another layer of bitter-sweetness). My mistake: I initially thought the Director's Cut didn't have that.

It's the original thearetical US-release that had a "happy ending" - so I wouldn't recommend that one. I guess I never saw that one.

I also agree about the ending in The Third Man - always makes me chuckle when she leaves him alone.

 

[Huntn]

Yes, but what about the ambiguous ending, or the unhappy ending? I like it when movie dare to be brave on such matters.

For example, the having the courage of your convictions and hitting a note which hints at the bitter sweet integrity of art - when Holly Didn't Get The Girl - at the very end of The Third Man is one of a great many things which make this a flawless - and utterly outstanding movie - to my mind.

I agree that drastic changes to the end of a movie based on a test audience will not produce the sharpest ending happy or not.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I agree that drastic changes to the end of a movie based on a test audience will not produce the sharpest ending happy or not.

Actually, I think it goes deeper than that.

My understanding is that US culture is reluctant to accept or endorse or approve of movies that do not have a happy ending and that do not leave the audience in a 'feel-good' mood on leaving the cinema.

That means that movie makers, directors, and producers seem to be increasingly unwilling to risk making such a movie, and fear that any ending where matters are nuanced, or a bitter-sweet note is struck, may meet with audience disapproval.

Now, I get that movies are a form of escapism and that nobody wants to be reminded of the messy compromises of real life all of the time. But a culture that insists on fiction supplying a happy ending all the time does itself a disservice, and - in essence, censors its artists from exploring the human condition fully.

Reverting to Star Trek - and STNG - which, at their best were excellent dramas - the very, very best episodes tended to have that downbeat ending, striking a bitter-sweet note of rueful contemplation. The very best episodes were so good they actually hurt when you had finished watching them.

 

[pachyderm]

I watched it on a plane a few years ago and thought it was really bad. There was no way the book series was going to be worse..... so I read Killing Floor.
[doublepost=1453676491][/doublepost]I watched Straight out of Compton at the weekend. Good movie. I was impressed how they pulled off the Ice Cube likeness.

i like it but Tom Cruise isn't who i pictured as JR.

i'm equally glad that the role didn't go to hugh jackman or jeremy renner...

and, if i haven't said this on here before, i do believe jack reacher is a homicidal sociopath....

 

[Huntn]

Actually, I think it goes deeper than that.

My understanding is that US culture is reluctant to accept or endorse or approve of movies that do not have a happy ending and that do not leave the audience in a 'feel-good' mood on leaving the cinema.

That means that movie makers, directors, and producers seem to be increasingly unwilling to risk making such a movie, and that any ending where matters are nuanced, or a bitter-sweet note is struck, meet with audience disapproval.

Now, I get that movies are a form of escapism and that nobody wants to be reminded of the messy compromises of real life all of the time. But a culture that insists on fiction supplying a happy ending all the time does itself a disservice, and - in essence, censors its artists from exploring the human condition fully.

Reverting to Star Trek - and STNG - which, at their best were excellent dramas - the very, very best episodes tended to have that downbeat ending, striking a bitter-sweet note of rueful contemplation. The very best episodes were so good they actually hurt when you had finished watching them.

Agreed regarding STNG. I was sad after All Good Things was over, because it represented the end of this excellent show. My own experience is that I dislike movies with unhappy endings, however for those movies that end unhappily, or tell a tragic story, they must have some redeeming, positive something or what is the point? Most people would not call getting the emotional **** beat out of them entertainment, unless there was some glimmer of hope.

One Flew Over The Cookoos Nest- unhappy ending, but I could appreciate the character's humanity fighting the system.
Rosmary's Baby, total downer. The kind of story, I don't need to see. A similar movie Devil's Advocate told somewhat the same story, but had a climatic confrontation, but also let the viewer know the battle for humanities soul was not over.

 

[twietee]

Ahh, Rosemary's Baby. Downer indeed

But not just the ending, whole movie is like that so it fits. I like it.

Last movie I saw was Friedkin's French Connection with its "realistic" ending (= no happy end) and Sorcerer, where the whole cast is dead in the end - the main protagonist faces his inevitable fate after running from it with everything he got for a whole movie. Also extremely powerful.

 

[Huntn]

Ahh, Rosemary's Baby. Downer indeed

But not just the ending, whole movie is like that so it fits. I like it.

Last movie I saw was Friedkin's French Connection with its "realistic" ending (= no happy end) and Sorcerer, where the whole cast is dead in the end - the main protagonist faces his inevitable fate after running from it with everything he got for a whole movie. Also extremely powerful.

French Connection- Good story, bolstered by several outstanding performances, an ambiguous ending, and a heart pounding chase, which I have a weakness for. I still reminisce about the day I walked into Bullitt, not knowing what was waiting for me.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Agreed regarding STNG. I was sad after All Good Things was over, because it represented the end of this excellent show. My own experience is that I dislike movies with unhappy endings, however for those movies that end unhappily, or tell a tragic story, they must have some redeeming, positive something or what is the point? Most people would not call getting the emotional **** beat out of them entertainment, unless there was some glimmer of hope.

One Flew Over The Cookoos Nest- unhappy ending, but I could appreciate the character's humanity fighting the system.
Rosmary's Baby, total downer. The kind of story, I don't need to see. A similar movie Devil's Advocate told somewhat the same story, but had a climatic confrontation, but also let the viewer know the battle for humanities soul was not over.

Okay, I will readily concede that I am not a fan of tragedy for the sake of tragedy, but I do like it when a well made movie has the courage of its convictions to not give the audience the psychological saccharine rush of the proverbial happy ending.

Re STNG, the episode 'The Inner Light' is widely regarded as one of the very best episodes ever of STNG - and it is gripping and haunting and actually quite heart-breaking (and an outstanding example of superb acting by Patrick Stewart who is utterly believable and quite compelling in this alternative universe) - especially at the end, when Commander Riker hands the Ressikan flute to Jean-Luc Picard , and departs, leaving the captain to his thoughts, clutching the flute. Awesome.

Indeed, even the original ST had an outstanding episode 'City On The Edge Of Forever'. And again, this works precisely because it doesn't offer an ending that is neatly and happily stitched.

Movies (and TV shows) that allow for downbeat endings tend to carry it off if the preceding story has been intelligently told, well scripted and well acted. Then, the audience can accept the logic of the story because it is not a lie to end on such a note.

 

[Huntn]

Okay, I will readily concede that I am not a fan of tragedy for the sake of tragedy, but I do like it when a well made movie has the courage of its convictions to not give the audience the psychological saccharine rush of the proverbial happy ending.

Re STNG, the episode 'The Inner Light' is widely regarded as one of the very best episodes ever of STNG - and it is gripping and haunting and actually quite heart-breaking (and an outstanding example of superb acting by Patrick Stewart who is utterly believable and quite compelling in this alternative universe) - especially at the end, when Commander Riker hands the Ressikan flute to Jean-Luc Picard , and departs, leaving the captain to his thoughts, clutching the flute. Awesome.

Indeed, even the original ST had an outstanding episode 'City On The Edge Of Forever'. And again, this works precisely because it doesn't offer an ending that is neatly and happily stitched.

Movies (and TV shows) that allow for downbeat endings tend to carry it off if the preceding story has been intelligently told, well scripted and well acted. Then, the audience can accept the logic of the story because it is not a lie to end on such a note.

The episode where Picard spends 30 years (a lifetime?) in an illusion (at least it felt that way to him) so he could learn about a dead society was awesome in what it achieved. However, I still remember thinking how could any human shake this and similarly jarring experiences off and continue forward unscathed? ... Like becoming a Borg, or devolving into primitive creatures, killing crew members.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The episode where Picard spends 30 years (a lifetime?) in an illusion (at least it felt that way to him) so he could learn about a dead society was awesome in what it achieved. However, I still remember thinking how could any human shake this and similarly jarring experiences off and continue forward unscathed? ... Like becoming a Borg, or devolving into primitive creatures, killing crew members.

Exactly. That was the episode - and Picard used the flute subsequently, and realised that he had somehow retained the ability to play it - having learned to play it on that planet during his 'lifetime' there.

What struck me most about that episode was how powerful it was - they managed to make an hour of flawless and gripping drama on TV and packed a thoughtful, intelligent, compelling and ultimately tragic story - the planet was destroyed - into an hour. It was probably the best single hour long episode on STNG - some of the two part episodes were also superb (and yes, the Borg, a three part episode, was absolutely outstanding).

 

[kazmac]

These days I prefer the happier ending. That said, John Carpenter leveled several excellent downer endings which really complimented certain films. You could have a hilarious downer ending (Escape from New York), heroic and funny (They Live), unsettlingly heroic (The Thing), or just plain unnerving / creepy (Prince of Darkness the ending of which, still creeps me out almost 30 years in.)

---

The Delightful Forest (1972) Fourth time is the charm. Honorable gallant Wu Song (Ti Lung) avenges his older brothers' death (by killing the brother's wife and lover) and takes full responsibility for his crimes. When the son of the prison overload (not the warden apparently), gives Wu Song special treatment, the young swordsman is suspicious. Ultimately, the son asks Wu Song to get rid of the criminal elements who have over taken his lucrative restaurant (the title place) and other properties, Wu agrees since he only fights bad guys. At first, this is easily accomplished but corrupt politicians stick their greedy hands into the mix and work on getting rid of Wu Song. Silly politicians. The film has a very coarse tone (appropriate given Wu Song's fondness for drink and heroism) and this, along with the obvious court corruption felt very ugly and foreign to me the first 3x I watched. Now that I've got a lot more of Chang Cheh (who co-directed and wrote the script) under my belt, I clearly understand this wasn't a cut and dry look at good and evil. Wu Song is as good as they come, but he's also rakish, brash and thankfully has the kung fu to back up his words. The violence is pretty raw and vicious (the injury Wu Song suffers in the final fight makes me wince terribly, it's painful) and a lot of the people are absolutely awful. This character juxtaposition does reveal Wu Song as very just, honorable and good hearted, it's been done before, but I really appreciate seeing it here as a way to enforce how rare a man like Wu Song is in the movie's universe. Ti Lung gives a ridiculously energetic, playful and dangerous performance as Wu Song (a character he would revisit two more times in All Men Are Brothers and The Tiger Killer.) It's nice to see his kicking abilities used so heavily here (he always gets in one good or fantastic kick per film), it's a different aspect of his martial prowess and boy was he on fire. His acting abilities would really start to blossom with 1976's The Magic Blade, but it was nice to see him rise above the beautiful beef cake here to play an engaging and likable coarse hero. Not an anti-hero, a pure white hat.

So, yes, I really enjoy this film now. It almost feels like a spaghetti western (the use of Morrione's Once Upon a Time in the West music only reinforces this.)

I really appreciate being able to watch these Shaw Brothers films a few times and do a complete 360 with my opinion. They've made me a bit more of an open minded genre film fan.It's neat to be able to expand upon or completely revise my thoughts on a film I may have blown off. I enjoy seeing the heroes triumph over evil, it's what I grew up with and where my mind is at now.

 

[millerj123]

Actually, I think it goes deeper than that.

My understanding is that US culture is reluctant to accept or endorse or approve of movies that do not have a happy ending and that do not leave the audience in a 'feel-good' mood on leaving the cinema.

That means that movie makers, directors, and producers seem to be increasingly unwilling to risk making such a movie, and that any ending where matters are nuanced, or a bitter-sweet note is struck, meet with audience disapproval.

Now, I get that movies are a form of escapism and that nobody wants to be reminded of the messy compromises of real life all of the time. But a culture that insists on fiction supplying a happy ending all the time does itself a disservice, and - in essence, censors its artists from exploring the human condition fully.

Reverting to Star Trek - and STNG - which, at their best were excellent dramas - the very, very best episodes tended to have that downbeat ending, striking a bitter-sweet note of rueful contemplation. The very best episodes were so good they actually hurt when you had finished watching them.

This is one reason I love getting movies on DVD or Bluray that have all the extras. In many cases, deleted scenes improve the movie, but sometimes the endings will completely change the feel. Good examples of this are Clerks and the Butterfly Effect where the unused endings are much more powerful than the theatrical release.

 

[Huntn]

Oblivion (2013)- Good scifi...if Tom Cruise is ok with you.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Oblivion (2013)- Good scifi...if Tom Cruise is ok with you.

No, I have to admit that he is not. Can't stand him, and cannot abide Kevin Costner either. Not mad about Mr Hanks, for that matter, too.

 

[Huntn]

No, I have to admit that he is not. Can't stand him, and cannot abide Kevin Costner either. Not mad about Mr Hanks, for that matter, too.

I'll observe that Tom tends to be full of himself and is a sub-par narrator. Kevin Costner- No Way Out (1987)... thumbs up. Tom Hanks, excellent in Green Mile (1999), epic in Forrest Gump (1994), pretty good in Saving Private Ryan (1998). It's ok if we disagree.

 

[bobob]

It was probably the best single hour ing episode on STNG

I would cast my ballot for Yesterday's Enterprise if this were the TV thread.

 

[pachyderm]

Oblivion (2013)- Good scifi...if Tom Cruise is ok with you.

i was watching that too. +1

 

[S.B.G]

I'll observe that Tom tends to be full of himself and is a sub-par narrator. Kevin Costner- No Way Out (1987)... thumbs up. Tom Hanks, excellent in Green Mile (1999), epic in Forrest Gump (1994), pretty good in Saving Private Ryan (1998). It's ok if we disagree.

I agree with your assessment all the way. Can't recall if I've seen Oblivion or not, probably not because of Cruise.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I would cast my ballot for Yesterday's Enterprise if this were the TV thread.

An outstanding episode, agreed.

Terrific scene-setting (the lighting, uniforms, and atmosphere were superb), and a very chilling and credible alternative warlike universe created. Picard and company were very believable as the crew of an an Enterprise equipped for and fighting a war (rather than one with a mission of exploration and discovery and diplomacy) and as a ship coping under the strain of fighting a war they couldn't win.

 

[Huntn]

This is one reason I love getting movies on DVD or Bluray that have all the extras. In many cases, deleted scenes improve the movie, but sometimes the endings will completely change the feel. Good examples of this are Clerks and the Butterfly Effect where the unused endings are much more powerful than the theatrical release.

And in some cases alternate endings have little significant impact on the story as in why bother, as I'm thinking of alternate ending choices in X-Men 3, the one were the bastards mutilated the Dark Phoenix Saga.

[doublepost=1453812430][/doublepost]

i was watching that too. +1

The misdirection as to the nature of the threat was pretty good. Much of oblivion was filmed in the black sands of Iceland.

A long shot of the previous image I posted... Cool. (Image link)​