What’s on your mind?

[kazmac]

Time to introduce dog ownership licenses that can be revoked for antisocial behaviour. Owning a dog should be a privilege only for those who are able to do it properly.

A-freaking-men which would mean none of our neighbors would allowed to own them... I hope you can find solutions that work for you.

A lot going on here, I may have had Covid a few weeks back. Not sure, but cannot get tested because there are no walk in test sites here, so I’ll keep isolating, masking up, etc.

Mom and I just received our second Moderna shot today, we’re hanging in.

Hope everyone is okay.

 

[Clix Pix]

Wow, Kazmac, I hope that you didn't actually have COVID, but if you did it sounds as though you came through OK..... Glad to hear that both you and your mother have now had your second Moderna vaccinations!!! Whew....

How is the new job going?

 

[kazmac]

Wow, Kazmac, I hope that you didn't actually have COVID, but if you did it sounds as though you came through OK..... Glad to hear that both you and your mother have now had your second Moderna vaccinations!!! Whew....

How is the new job going?

Job: finally moving toward doing what I was hired to do, but it’s been frustrating and stressful as the job is not as advertised.

Covid: I had several symptoms and we were both fatigued for a bit, but it could have been something else too. Grateful we’re fine. We stupidly let a Physical Therapist in to work on mom, but my older sister could have brought something from Maine too (she was vaccinate.)

Anyway, grateful we now have both shots. In two weeks, we’ll be clear. Made sure we masked up today when we got the second shot.

All things considering, we’re good and I’m glad. How are you?

 

[Clix Pix]

Good to hear things are going OK for you and that the job situation is settling down a bit into more what you'd expected when you were hired on....

I'm doing fine -- had an issue with one eye back in June, got that squared away and July was the month of issues with my back brought on by too-enthusiastic swimming using muscles I hadn't used in a while, which once I'd gotten back into the pool after a long absence, I didn't think about as I was joyously swimming. I loved doing the familiar swim moves and strokes again, but my back didn't, and it waited until a couple of days later to let me know by some of the muscles suddenly going into spasms. Not fun! Now that is finally pretty much cleared up, too. Hoping that August will be a perfectly fine month that I can enjoy without any annoying physical issues!

 

[kazmac]

@Clix Pix glad your eye and back are okay. Here’s to a great August for you, especially the swimming.

 

[Clix Pix]

Thanks, Kazmac! Well, next time I go to the pool I'm not going to swim with quite such vigor and enthusiasm!!! LOL! I'll take it easy and swim like a sedate little old lady......

 

[Doc C]

Math and I do not get along. Math hates me and I hate math and so we have an understanding between us that we both leave each other alone.

The absolute best I could ever do in high school algebra (and that was giving my best effort) was a B.

Probably why I ended up in design and not some math based occupation.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/enter...h_s-Rant-Against-Math_New-York-279397532.html

It’s always troubled me when people say things like this. I’ve never believed that we (excluding those with structural brain abnormalities - good or bad) are born with innate talent for any particular subject. It has a lot to do with what we are exposed to and how we are taught.

I will assume that everyone here is at least of average intelligence, if not above average. In many Eastern European and Asian countries, the “average” kids are being introduced to calculus in Grade 9, if not earlier. They seem to be able to handle it ok.

My sense is that it has more to do with how we are taught. Different people will learn concepts in different ways. If a teacher isn’t able (or willing) to find the way to help the student learn, then the student will become discouraged and learn to avoid the subject. On the other hand, a student that is taught in a way that allows them to achieve success early on will learn to like them subject, and so they will go on to excel.

I’m willing to bet that someone sufficiently motivated and with the right kind of teaching can learn almost anything. But if they have had the motivation beaten out of them early on, then even the best teacher

And perhaps we should start helping kids learn how to learn. Make them curious and help them explore rather than trying to fit everyone into the same box. A curious child is going to ask why, how, and all the other questions that lead to learning. Then they become curious adults, who are more likely to go on to change the world (which is sorely needed)

Of course, this would require us to show proper respect for teachers and the educational system, and perhaps even fund it properly…

 

[Apple fanboy]

It’s always troubled me when people say things like this. I’ve never believed that we (excluding those with structural brain abnormalities - good or bad) are born with innate talent for any particular subject. It has a lot to do with what we are exposed to and how we are taught.

I will assume that everyone here is at least of average intelligence, if not above average. In many Eastern European and Asian countries, the “average” kids are being introduced to calculus in Grade 9, if not earlier. They seem to be able to handle it ok.

My sense is that it has more to do with how we are taught. Different people will learn concepts in different ways. If a teacher isn’t able (or willing) to find the way to help the student learn, then the student will become discouraged and learn to avoid the subject. On the other hand, a student that is taught in a way that allows them to achieve success early on will learn to like them subject, and so they will go on to excel.

I’m willing to bet that someone sufficiently motivated and with the right kind of teaching can learn almost anything. But if they have had the motivation beaten out of them early on, then even the best teacher

And perhaps we should start helping kids learn how to learn. Make them curious and help them explore rather than trying to fit everyone into the same box. A curious child is going to ask why, how, and all the other questions that lead to learning. Then they become curious adults, who are more likely to go on to change the world (which is sorely needed)

Of course, this would require us to show proper respect for teachers and the educational system, and perhaps even fund it properly…

I’ll disagree. I think some people are naturally gifted with some subjects more than others. We are not all made the same. Some have creative minds. Some have analytical minds. Yes you can teach a creative mind person to think analytically. You can teach an analytical mind to think creatively. But some people will just be better than others with exactly the same teaching, motivation and the rest.

 

[eyoungren]

It’s always troubled me when people say things like this. I’ve never believed that we (excluding those with structural brain abnormalities - good or bad) are born with innate talent for any particular subject. It has a lot to do with what we are exposed to and how we are taught.

I will assume that everyone here is at least of average intelligence, if not above average. In many Eastern European and Asian countries, the “average” kids are being introduced to calculus in Grade 9, if not earlier. They seem to be able to handle it ok.

My sense is that it has more to do with how we are taught. Different people will learn concepts in different ways. If a teacher isn’t able (or willing) to find the way to help the student learn, then the student will become discouraged and learn to avoid the subject. On the other hand, a student that is taught in a way that allows them to achieve success early on will learn to like them subject, and so they will go on to excel.

I’m willing to bet that someone sufficiently motivated and with the right kind of teaching can learn almost anything. But if they have had the motivation beaten out of them early on, then even the best teacher

And perhaps we should start helping kids learn how to learn. Make them curious and help them explore rather than trying to fit everyone into the same box. A curious child is going to ask why, how, and all the other questions that lead to learning. Then they become curious adults, who are more likely to go on to change the world (which is sorely needed)

Of course, this would require us to show proper respect for teachers and the educational system, and perhaps even fund it properly…

No, it's mainly me. I am a visual person. Let's take a very basic math equation, 2+2 = 4. In my head I am seeing two number twos. To add them I visualize the first one and then I will visualize touching the second two at two separate points, counting once each time. With more complicated math it becomes impossible to keep all that visualization straight so I have to turn to actually doing it on paper or a calculator.

Because I've memorized certain equations that are used frequently I can get by, but when I actually have to find the answer this is what goes on in my head.

The second problem is still me. Math tends to skip steps in problem solving because it's assumed you know them already. I cannot skip steps. Skip a step and I'm lost. I have to plod through it all and shortcuts just confuse me.

Third, and this is more of an attitude problem…with some problems you have to assume certain things are true. I have real difficulty with accepting that those things are based on someone in antiquity having gone out and measured things or done this or that. We have to take this person at his word that he did everything right. In other words, certain math laws and rules are based on fallible people. People I do not know, never met and have no idea if they have an agenda of their own or not. I accept this only because not accepting it means the problem cannot be solved any other way.

Lastly, I despise that some math is created simply to prove that what is right in front of you exists. Why do you need it to prove that? Walk over, pick it up, touch it. It's real. I don't need math for that. I think sometimes people create new math as a hobby or to justify something, while not really having an actual purpose for average people.

And do NOT get me started on imaginary numbers. If they are imaginary, they don't exist - so why the **** are we talking about or doing equations with fake numbers that don't exist?

Maybe it's just because all this stuff is higher than me and I'm just a simple person, IDK. But math forces my visual brain into painful and frustrating contortions.

For the record, my wife is excellent at math and she passed that on to my son. They can talk math shorthand back and forth and it makes my daughter and I just want to sit down and try not to pass out.

 

[Doc C]

I’ll disagree. I think some people are naturally gifted with some subjects more than others. We are not all made the same. Some have creative minds. Some have analytical minds. Yes you can teach a creative mind person to think analytically. You can teach an analytical mind to think creatively. But some people will just be better than others with exactly the same teaching, motivation and the rest.

I agree that some will be better than others, but that’s different from saying that someone truly can’t learn something.

There are a few who are naturally gifted - physically or cognitively - however the rest of us fall into the middle, whether its upper-middle or lower-middle. We all have the ability to raise our innate level of talent to a certain extent, but we have to choose to do so. For example, if Usain Bolt didn’t train, he would still be a very fast runner, but he might not have been the fastest in the world. On the other hand, there are many pro musicians who may not have been stars as kids but put the work into getting better.

There is a book I read a while ago “Talent is not Enough” — it somewhat addresses this topic. Twin studies also show how much nurture plays a role in the expression of what nature have each of us.

 

[Doc C]

No, it's mainly me. I am a visual person. Let's take a very basic math equation, 2+2 = 4. In my head I am seeing two number twos. To add them I visualize the first one and then I will visualize touching the second two at two separate points, counting once each time. With more complicated math it becomes impossible to keep all that visualization straight so I have to turn to actually doing it on paper or a calculator.

Because I've memorized certain equations that are used frequently I can get by, but when I actually have to find the answer this is what goes on in my head.

The second problem is still me. Math tends to skip steps in problem solving because it's assumed you know them already. I cannot skip steps. Skip a step and I'm lost. I have to plod through it all and shortcuts just confuse me.

Third, and this is more of an attitude problem…with some problems you have to assume certain things are true. I have real difficulty with accepting that those things are based on someone in antiquity having gone out and measured things or done this or that. We have to take this person at his word that he did everything right. In other words, certain math laws and rules are based on fallible people. People I do not know, never met and have no idea if they have an agenda of their own or not. I accept this only because not accepting it means the problem cannot be solved any other way.

Lastly, I despise that some math is created simply to prove that what is right in front of you exists. Why do you need it to prove that? Walk over, pick it up, touch it. It's real. I don't need math for that. I think sometimes people create new math as a hobby or to justify something, while not really having an actual purpose for average people.

And do NOT get me started on imaginary numbers. If they are imaginary, they don't exist - so why the **** are we talking about or doing equations with fake numbers that don't exist?

Maybe it's just because all this stuff is higher than me and I'm just a simple person, IDK. But math forces my visual brain into painful and frustrating contortions.

For the record, my wife is excellent at math and she passed that on to my son. They can talk math shorthand back and forth and it makes my daughter and I just want to sit down and try not to pass out.

you are a visual person, so you should have been taught how to use that in doing math.

For example, we were probably all taught how to multiply two digit numbers by writing them down and multiplying the ones and then the tens, then adding the results. There is a way of doing it that involves drawing lines (it’s easy to find on YouTube) and then counting. I find that easier to visualize than the long multiplication. For me, the easiest way of multiplying is to break it up into four single-digit multiplications - multiply the tens digits, multiply the tens of one by the ones of the other, vice versa, and multiply the ones digits. I was repeatedly told by teachers that I was doing it wrong.

In terms of math being dependent on what others have shown, this is only true if you haven’t been taught the principles of how equations are derived. We had one physics professor who gave us an exam where he didn’t care what the answer was, he just wanted us to derive the equation that would give the answer. Fortunately, a group of us had been learning that way so it wasn’t too bad.

For the “average person”, math may not initially seem important, but remember that keeping track of a budget is math, and understanding the concept of exponential growth is an important part of investing. The math is important to others because it allows them to build things like your home (without the math that engineers do, how would we know if the houses are stable enough to live in?) or your car (optimizing fuel economy is ultimately a math problem) or the computer/phone that you are using to follow this forum. As a doctor, I need math to calculate doses and to adjust for abnormal kidney or liver function, to manipulate fluids in the ICU, and so on.

(And as a side rant, I don’t believe that anyone is ”simple” - you just can’t be in the modern world. You may not know much about the topics that I do, but I have no doubt that there are things that you know and I don’t. I once had a colleague refer to a patient as simple. When I saw the patient, I found out that he was a farmer who eschewed modern tech, but he could tell you everything there is to know about the different crops and livestock he tended, and his understanding of weather patterns, soil types, and other related issues would put some PhD students to shame. It’s all about what is important to us. I love my job in part because I get to learn from people every day.)

 

[Madhatter32]

No, it's mainly me. I am a visual person. Let's take a very basic math equation, 2+2 = 4. In my head I am seeing two number twos. To add them I visualize the first one and then I will visualize touching the second two at two separate points, counting once each time. With more complicated math it becomes impossible to keep all that visualization straight so I have to turn to actually doing it on paper or a calculator.

Because I've memorized certain equations that are used frequently I can get by, but when I actually have to find the answer this is what goes on in my head.

The second problem is still me. Math tends to skip steps in problem solving because it's assumed you know them already. I cannot skip steps. Skip a step and I'm lost. I have to plod through it all and shortcuts just confuse me.

Third, and this is more of an attitude problem…with some problems you have to assume certain things are true. I have real difficulty with accepting that those things are based on someone in antiquity having gone out and measured things or done this or that. We have to take this person at his word that he did everything right. In other words, certain math laws and rules are based on fallible people. People I do not know, never met and have no idea if they have an agenda of their own or not. I accept this only because not accepting it means the problem cannot be solved any other way.

Lastly, I despise that some math is created simply to prove that what is right in front of you exists. Why do you need it to prove that? Walk over, pick it up, touch it. It's real. I don't need math for that. I think sometimes people create new math as a hobby or to justify something, while not really having an actual purpose for average people.

And do NOT get me started on imaginary numbers. If they are imaginary, they don't exist - so why the **** are we talking about or doing equations with fake numbers that don't exist?

Maybe it's just because all this stuff is higher than me and I'm just a simple person, IDK. But math forces my visual brain into painful and frustrating contortions.

For the record, my wife is excellent at math and she passed that on to my son. They can talk math shorthand back and forth and it makes my daughter and I just want to sit down and try not to pass out.

Your post reminded me of a video I saw a little while back that basically posits that "learning styles" are a myth. It is one of those theories that was (perhaps still is) propounded in teaching schools and academia but recent evidence based studies seem to refute. It seemed like a reasonable hypothesis to explain learning differences but the evidence does not seem to bear it out. I think one's dislike for certain subjects needs to be explained for other reasons.

 

[eyoungren]

Your post reminded me of a video I saw a little while back that basically posits that "learning styles" are a myth. It is one of those theories that was (perhaps still is) propounded in teaching schools and academia but recent evidence based studies seem to refute. It seemed like a reasonable hypothesis to explain learning differences but the evidence does not seem to bear it out. I think one's dislike for certain subjects needs to be explained for other reasons.

I'm willing to accept the premise of the video (that there are no actual learning styles), but I'll clarify what I meant by visual person.

I wasn't actually stating that I am a visual learner, although I admit the implication is there. I just meant that I visualize everything and that visuals affect me. I will also admit that I'm affected by aural influences. Music and imagery together often move me. Then again, sometimes aural influence with visual influence annoys me.

But, if you give me a math problem I will visualize the problem and what the problem is attempting to solve. If I read a historical text I will attempt to visualize the people, places and things being discussed in my mind. My science notes for a bio class once caused the teacher to suggest I take up scientific illustration, simply because I was attempting to visualize the subject material.

If I plan to go somewhere, even a place as mundane as the grocery store, I see my travel to and my experience at that place all in my head before leaving. On the way out, I'm already visualizing my exit.

I visualize how arguments or discussions might go, I visualize what might happen at work or at an event. I visualize my interactions with people. In short, just about everything I do is more or less visualized in my head before I actually go and do it - and sometimes I don't do it, because I visualized what COULD happen if I did.

Perhaps it is true I was not taught math correctly. That's certainly possible given I was in small private Christian schools from 1976 to 1989. But my visualizing things the way I do is all me.

 

[yaxomoxay]

on my mind... people that don't even pretend to wanting to provide decent customer service.

I am having issues with the oven I purchased four years ago, so I went to the store (a major retailer) where I purchased it to ask if they could send someone.

A young girl, a trainee, asked me the routine questions (what's the problem, did you buy it here, do you remember when, did you buy extended warranty (yes) etc.). After this short questioning, she asked turned to her supervisor - who was just browsing her phone - to explain my problem. The supervisor's reply (I could hear everything) was just "it's clearly beyond extended warranty, tell them to find someone to fix it." to which the girl replied "can't we send someone?". Frustrated, the supervisor finally turned around to face me, and asked with a confrontational tone, "You don't have the receipt with you, correct?" ("No"). "Do you remember in which month did you purchase it") ("I believe May"). "You are not sure so until you find the month in which you purchased it we can't send anyone, and since your purchase is older than 18 months our system won't even show it". She then abruptly left to talk to some customer that clearly wanted to purchase some appliance. I thought that the trainee wanted to die. However, I asked her "can't you just check if my phone # is in the system", to which the girl replied "well, she said it's not there". I insisted ("it's just entering a phone number, can you please check it? If it's there, good. If it isn't it's not a biggie"). After a few seconds, and after entering my phone # in the system the girl replied: "she was wrong," and then proceeded to provide me all the information I needed to call a technician.

I am like, couldn't the supervisor just spend LESS time and effort just by entering my phone # to see if it was in the system?

 

[Apple fanboy]

on my mind... people that don't even pretend to wanting to provide decent customer service.

I am having issues with the oven I purchased four years ago, so I went to the store (a major retailer) where I purchased it to ask if they could send someone.

A young girl, a trainee, asked me the routine questions (what's the problem, did you buy it here, do you remember when, did you buy extended warranty (yes) etc.). After this short questioning, she asked turned to her supervisor - who was just browsing her phone - to explain my problem. The supervisor's reply (I could hear everything) was just "it's clearly beyond extended warranty, tell them to find someone to fix it." to which the girl replied "can't we send someone?". Frustrated, the supervisor finally turned around to face me, and asked with a confrontational tone, "You don't have the receipt with you, correct?" ("No"). "Do you remember in which month did you purchase it") ("I believe May"). "You are not sure so until you find the month in which you purchased it we can't send anyone, and since your purchase is older than 18 months our system won't even show it". She then abruptly left to talk to some customer that clearly wanted to purchase some appliance. I thought that the trainee wanted to die. However, I asked her "can't you just check if my phone # is in the system", to which the girl replied "well, she said it's not there". I insisted ("it's just entering a phone number, can you please check it? If it's there, good. If it isn't it's not a biggie"). After a few seconds, and after entering my phone # in the system the girl replied: "she was wrong," and then proceeded to provide me all the information I needed to call a technician.

I am like, couldn't the supervisor just spend LESS time and effort just by entering my phone # to see if it was in the system?

The supervisor probably only earns a bit more than the customer service person. She probably earns her decent money through sales commissions. But there is no excuse for poor customer service. A tip for this sort of thing is to get the serial number off the unit. They can always find that.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Two examples of good customer service

• The father of an American friend was walking along past a vacant lot and saw an old, rusted spanner. He could just see the 'Sears' stamping on the shaft and so took it to a Sears shop. Giving it to the guy on the desk he said "I want one just like this". The young bloke goes out the back, comes back with a shiny new one and gives it to him. He asks
  "How much?" and gets the answer
  "No charge, these have a lifetime warranty."
  "But its not mine."
  "It doesnt' matter sir, the warranty goes with the tool, not the owner."
  So for the cost of a spanner, Sears won a lifetime customer.
• I used to work for a company servicing large-format (up to 3 metres wide) ink-jet printers. I was called out to an architect's firm to fix their "fuzzy printing problem" with their printer. I cleaned the printer and print heads, adjusted all the gaps, couldn't fix it. I took out my fountain pen (which I always had with me) and drew a line on the paper - fuzzy. Their paper was [insert bad word here]. Went out to the car, came back with a roll of good paper, put it in the printer, fixed the problem instantly. They were happy, I was happy. I thought that for the cost of a roll of paper, they might buy their paper from us in the future.
  Next day the boss says to me "Go back to them and install a new $4000 printer". They were so happy with the service they didn't just buy paper, they bought a whole, new, top of the range printer.

We only buy our white goods from one particular shop at Campbelltown. They are the only ones that always speak to us promptly, respectfully and intelligently and when possible, give us the best discounts. The one down the road has staff that can't be bothered to speak to customers and the one across the road, if they offer discounts, are so small they are insulting.

 

[kazmac]

@yaxomoxay 🤗 That’s why when I have a really good experience with Apple tech support, I let Tim Cook know.

Retail can be so frustrating for the customer and the employee. Glad you were able to get some info.

 

[ghanwani]

Retail can be so frustrating for the customer and the employee.

Only when the customer has not undergone the "how to be a good customer" training.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Having fun learning some Calendar stuff (based on the liturgical calendar), such as the Dominical Letter, or the epact (to calculate Easter based on the moon difference and the Golden Number).

The Domincal letter (A,B,C,D,E,F,G) determines which days of the calendar are Sundays, and it's derived by the first Sunday of the year. First Sunday of 2021 was January 3rd, which means that January 3rd is assigned the letter A. Monday is assigned B, Tuesday C and so on. It's easy then to derive the first day of each month. In January, the first was a Friday, which is assigned F. February 1st was a Monday, which is assigned a B. The sequence of the 1st day of each of the 12 months of the year 2021 is therefore FBBEGCEADFBD and it's easy to create a mnemonic from this. Considering that the 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the months are the same, it's easy to extrapolate the day of the week for any given date. To calculate August 4th, I'd use the mnemonic to arrive to the dominical letter A (Sunday) which means the first day of the month was a Sunday. Add 3 days and you get to the 4th (Wednesday).

The Golden Number is to take into account the difference in moon vs. earth days in a year. The golden number is used to calculate Easter together with the Epact and other stuff based on the 19 year cycle. Calculating the Golden Number is easy: Current Year MOD 19 +1. So this year: 2021 MOD 19 + 1 = 8. (2021 divided by 19, take the reminder and add 1).

The Epact is way more complex. The epact is the difference in days between the Moon year and Earth's year. An earth day is 365 days and a moon year is 11 days shorter on the first year, which means that on the second year the difference is 22 days and so on, repeating cyclically every 19 years. The epact is calculated in a tabular format and I am not grasping it fully yet.

I am also having some fun with the Julian calendars, in particular with Kalends, Nones, and Ides.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Having fun learning some Calendar stuff (based on the liturgical calendar), such as the Dominical Letter, or the epact (to calculate Easter based on the moon difference and the Golden Number).

The Domincal letter (A,B,C,D,E,F,G) determines which days of the calendar are Sundays, and it's derived by the first Sunday of the year. First Sunday of 2021 was January 3rd, which means that January 3rd is assigned the letter A. Monday is assigned B, Tuesday C and so on. It's easy then to derive the first day of each month. In January, the first was a Friday, which is assigned F. February 1st was a Monday, which is assigned a B. The sequence of the 1st day of each of the 12 months of the year 2021 is therefore FBBEGCEADFBD and it's easy to create a mnemonic from this. Considering that the 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the months are the same, it's easy to extrapolate the day of the week for any given date. To calculate August 4th, I'd use the mnemonic to arrive to the dominical letter A (Sunday) which means the first day of the month was a Sunday. Add 3 days and you get to the 4th (Wednesday).

The Golden Number is to take into account the difference in moon vs. earth days in a year. The golden number is used to calculate Easter together with the Epact and other stuff based on the 19 year cycle. Calculating the Golden Number is easy: Current Year MOD 19 +1. So this year: 2021 MOD 19 + 1 = 8. (2021 divided by 19, take the reminder and add 1).

The Epact is way more complex. The epact is the difference in days between the Moon year and Earth's year. An earth day is 365 days and a moon year is 11 days shorter on the first year, which means that on the second year the difference is 22 days and so on, repeating cyclically every 19 years. The epact is calculated in a tabular format and I am not grasping it fully yet.

I am also having some fun with the Julian calendars, in particular with Kalends, Nones, and Ides.

Fascinating; I love this sort of stuff.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Fascinating; I love this sort of stuff.

Yeah me too. It’s truly geeky stuff and the Diurnal I described on the Books You’re Reading thread opened a whole new universe to me.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

I came across Julian Day numbers when I bought my first 'real' calculator, a HP 25 (look it up, it was that long ago).
One of the programs you could put into it was a way to calculate the JD numbers for a pair of dates, and thereby work out the number of days between them.
Then Pope Gregory came along and mucked it all up, but the algorithm had a way to cope with him.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Only when the customer has not undergone the "how to be a good customer" training.

I worked for an AppleCentre (privately owned equivalent to an Apple Store, before Apple invented the Apple Store and made all the AppleCentres go broke...) for a decade. I underwent a number of Customer Service training courses, and the were quite enlightening. Told the story of the rusted spanner a couple of times. However I didn't realise the side effect of such training.
Ever afterwards, it has annoyed me no end when I don't get the level of service that I used to give to my customers.

 

[Livvie]

Trying to plumb a sump and set up my new aquarium. It’s all boggling my mind and stressing me out.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Final thought for the morning.
I have a cold. Now a cold virus is A corona virus but not THE corona virus.
I was hoping to sleep in a little this morning.
No chance.
Neighbour is having some work done in his back yard.
7:30 am a cement truck and a cement pumping truck rock up. Cement truck goes in backwards, down a tiny alley so there is a good five minutes of 'beep, beep, beep, beep' about 10 yards from my bedroom window. Then the cement pump fires up. Etc, etc, etc.

Apparently there's a law saying you can't shoot these people...