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like i said it was my opinion plus i was looking at a new ipad with retina and i had my ipad 2 with me and could not tell a difference in the screen at all with text or icons to me the non retina icons looked better but i do have really bad eye sight so that maybe the issue with me and retina anyway

Well, I feel that the difference between the iPad 2 and the new iPad is huge...

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iPad does not have sub-pixel rendering, so the difference between the iPad 3 and iPad 2 is indeed not that large...

But on the MacBook Pro, it makes a huge difference because of sub-pixel rendering. Texts on the Retina Display looks ultra sharp and super smooth. Smoother than on a printed magazine, even. So it's a huge difference compared to the old screen.

If nothing else, at least you can adjust effective desktop size to gain more real estate so it's a sizable upgrade either way.

It makes a big difference on the iPad. As iPad does not have sub-pixel rendering, the fonts look pixelated on the non-retina screen.

On the MacBook Pro, the text on the non-retina screen looks blurry (and not pixelated) due to sub-pixel rendering.

It's much better on the retina display anyway.

Anyhow, if there is no news of another Apple event by the end of next week, then it's a safe bet that Apple won't be announcing anything in October at all. Not the iPad Mini, nor the 13" rMBP. Usually they prepare for an event about 2 weeks before it goes live.

Well, I don't know. A retina 13-inch screen looks too much of an improvement to be a quiet upgrade. I think Apple would hold some sort of event for that. Anyway, I guess Apple doesn't need two weeks to hold an event after its announcement. If I remember well, Apple has already held events just after their announcement.
 
i would be just as impressed if the 13" macbook pro screen just got a resolution bump up... like to 1400x900 like that of the macbook air or maybe 1920x1080 screen :)
 
It makes a big difference on the iPad. As iPad does not have sub-pixel rendering, the fonts look pixelated on the non-retina screen.

On the MacBook Pro, the text on the non-retina screen looks blurry (and not pixelated) due to sub-pixel rendering.

It's much better on the retina display anyway.

Both the iPad 3 and iPad 2 have texts that look "weird" to me now. Maybe I'm just too used to my rMBP... So I think the leap from the cMBP to rMBP is much bigger than the leap from the iPad 2 to the iPad 3.

Well, I don't know. A retina 13-inch screen looks too much of an improvement to be a quiet upgrade. I think Apple would hold some sort of event for that. Anyway, I guess Apple doesn't need two weeks to hold an event after its announcement. If I remember well, Apple has already held events just after their announcement.

I mean the preparation, not the announcement. If they planned an event, then you should see news of them preparing the space for that event next week or so... and invitations would come around the same time frame. Unless they plan for it to be very late into October, but that has usually not been the case.

Also another worrying sign is that... we don't have any "leak" or information about the 13" rMBP even up to this point.
 
i would be just as impressed if the 13" macbook pro screen just got a resolution bump up... like to 1400x900 like that of the macbook air or maybe 1920x1080 screen :)

Well, that is not going to happen. Apple is tracing a clear path here. It first quadrupled the resolution of the iPhone; then, it quadrupled the resolution of the iPad; and it finally quadrupled the resolution of the 15-inch MacBook Pro. The next logical step will be to quadruple the resolution of all its products, including the 13-inch MacBook Pro.
 
Well, that is not going to happen. Apple is tracing a clear path here. It first quadrupled the resolution of the iPhone; then, it quadrupled the resolution of the iPad; and it finally quadrupled the resolution of the 15-inch MacBook Pro. The next logical step will be to quadruple the resolution of all its products, including the 13-inch MacBook Pro.

i'm talking about the non-retina macbook pro. sorry to confuse you there, bud. :eek:

but i agree with you. i would also like to see the 11" macbook air get retina too, because that would be just extra awesome :D and it also makes sense considering that once apple is done adding retina to the macbook pros, they can now move on to the macbook airs, then the iMacs, or the imacs then the macbook airs, etc etc...
 
i would also like to see the 11" macbook air get retina too, because that would be just extra awesome :D and it also makes sense considering that once apple is done adding retina to the macbook pros, they can now move on to the macbook airs, then the iMacs, or the imacs then the macbook airs, etc etc...

I can't see the Airs getting a retina screen anytime soon, the power requirements would necessitate a battery so large it would cease to be a lightweight laptop.
 
Both the iPad 3 and iPad 2 have texts that look "weird" to me now. Maybe I'm just too used to my rMBP... So I think the leap from the cMBP to rMBP is much bigger than the leap from the iPad 2 to the iPad 3.

In fact, I've never noticed that. Text looks quite good on my new iPad. The sub-pixel rendering basically exists to conceal low resolutions, to make it appear that the resoluction is higher than it actually is. So, I guess there should be one point that the resolution is so high that sub-pixel doesn't even matter anymore.

Take a look at this article on font rendering, I though it was quite good: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/04/24/a-closer-look-at-font-rendering/

I mean the preparation, not the announcement. If they planned an event, then you should see news of them preparing the space for that event next week or so... and invitations would come around the same time frame. Unless they plan for it to be very late into October, but that has usually not been the case.

I don't know about that. It may be a smaller event, if any.

I agree that there shouldn't be any announcement in late October, because it's time for Windows 8 to come out.

Also another worrying sign is that... we don't have any "leak" or information about the 13" rMBP even up to this point.

I don't find it so worrying at all. We've seen plenty of leaks of the iPhone and of the iPad. However, as far as I am aware of, there was no part leak of the 15-inch retina MacBook Pro. People are really interested in getting their hands into iOS devices because they are hot products, and most of them don't really care about MacBooks. There are already information on 13-inch 2560x1600 displays being produced since late August. These screens will most likely equip the 13-inch MacBook Pro (also because the MacBook Pros are the only laptops around that keep using the 16:10 screen format).

If Apple doesn't move fast enough, somebody else may release high resolution laptops before it does. Windows 8 is just around the corner, and it will have support for retina-like resolutions. Samsung, which is turning out to be Apple's archrival, has already presented a prototype of a 13-inch laptop with a 2560x1440 resolution. Apple should have a very good reason if it wants to delay the release of 13-inch retina MacBook Pros. There is a risk competitors launch retina-like laptops on day one after the release of Windows 8.
 
I can't see the Airs getting a retina screen anytime soon, the power requirements would necessitate a battery so large it would cease to be a lightweight laptop.

The retina macbook pro has a retina display and that came out with a battery that lasted as long as all the other non- retina macbook pros did, at the same size, if not a little bit smaller. Consider also that the retina macbook pro is 15", compared to the macbook air's 11", and that means it has to pack in more pixels (obviously), which should take more power, but it doesn't. same can be said about the hardware, which requires more power than that of the macbook air yet still it maintains the same battery life as all the other non-retina macbook pros....
 
I'm guessing the battery in the rMBP has a higher capacity than the cMBP. Also, they had some empty space to fill in making the rMBP by gluing stuff in, taking out the optical drive, etc. There isn't really any space to be saved in the Air, it's already been done.
 
I can't see the Airs getting a retina screen anytime soon, the power requirements would necessitate a battery so large it would cease to be a lightweight laptop.

I can see the MacBook Air getting a retina display. And it will eventually get one. The MacBook Air will probably get a major revamp because the internals will have to be modified in order to accomodate a larger and more efficient battery.

It will probably happen around 2013, and I'll explain why.

First, the MacBook Air had a design bump in late 2010, two years ago. Two and a half or three years later may be just time for a new refresh.

Second, it would coincide with the launch of Intel Haswell. Haswell low-voltage processors will have a TDP of just 10W, much lower than the 17W TDP of the current Ivy Bridge processors. In addition, energy consumption of the Haswell will be highly improved. Intel is announcing this as the great new feature of Haswell.

A retina display would require a larger battery, but how much larger? The resolution of the iPad went from 1024x768 (786,000 pixels) to 2048x1536 (3.14 million pixels) and it also got a more powerful GPU. Despite these increases, the new iPad is only 50g heavier and 0.6mm thicker than the iPad 2. And the new iPad is actually 30g lighter and 4mm thinner than the original iPad.

The 13-inch MacBook Air might get a 2880x1800 (5.18 million pixels) display instead of the current 1440x900 (1.3 million pixels). It won't kill anyone if it gets 100g heavier and 1mm thicker to accomodate a larger battery. But that probably won't happen due to a likely redesign and due to the power-saving technology of the Haswell.

Remember that people also said that the MacBook Pro couldn't have a retina display because it would require a larger battery. But Apple managed to put a retina display on it and still make it thinner and lighter than the previous model.
 
Ok, put it another way; would Apple add a retina screen to the Air and dilute their product segmentation? If the Pro and the Air both have retina why bother buying the more expensive Pro?

I do think at some point the lighter weight laptops will get high DPI screens but not for a good few years. Basically only once they become commonplace.
 
Ok, put it another way; would Apple add a retina screen to the Air and dilute their product segmentation? If the Pro and the Air both have retina why bother buying the more expensive Pro?

I do think at some point the lighter weight laptops will get high DPI screens but not for a good few years. Basically only once they become commonplace.

All Apple products will get a retina display, as soon as Apple is able to put a retina display on all of them. It will not keep a non-retina display just because of market segmentation.

There are two solutions to this: (i) Apple will merge the 13-inch MacBook Pro and the 13-inch MacBook Air; or (ii) Apple will keep both lines of products, and it will keep the 13-inch MacBook Pro as a more powerful (although heavier and more expensive) solution than the consumer-oriented MacBook Air.
 
I think that soon, the 13 MBP will get retina. Then maybe 2014, the Air's will get Retina along with a redesign. I don't believe there will be any merge any time soon. The 13 cMBP will die out, and the laptop line will include the MBP (all with retina), and MBA (geared towards consumers). Hoping that this October is true because I have the money sitting here waiting....
 
I think that soon, the 13 MBP will get retina. Then maybe 2014, the Air's will get Retina along with a redesign. I don't believe there will be any merge any time soon. The 13 cMBP will die out, and the laptop line will include the MBP (all with retina), and MBA (geared towards consumers). Hoping that this October is true because I have the money sitting here waiting....

Apple may be just waiting for Haswell to put retina on all Mac models.

Note one interesting thing: all MacBook Airs and the 15-inch MacBook Pro retina received a new, thinner MagSafe connector. The non-retina MacBook Pros (both 13 and 15-inch) did not. This may be a signal that these models are going to vanish soon.

I would say that this would be a credible schedule to follow:

March 2013: 13-inch MacBook Pro with a retina display is released shortly after Intel releases Haswell. The 15-inch MacBook Pro with a retina display is refreshed, and its prices are slashed. The non-retina models are gone.

June-August 2013: 11 and 13-inch MacBook Airs with a retina display are released after the release of Haswell. They may or may not get a redesign at this point.

Just guessing, anyway. I don't know about the iMacs. Will they get retina displays next year?
 
Still no signs of a comming event.. I'm guessing this october-thing is a lost cause. I really need a laptop right now, and looked forward to october, but might have to pull the trigger now and buy the Air, since no evidence have seen the light of day. Bummer..
 
Still no signs of a comming event.. I'm guessing this october-thing is a lost cause. I really need a laptop right now, and looked forward to october, but might have to pull the trigger now and buy the Air, since no evidence have seen the light of day. Bummer..

I am also interested in buying a new laptop, and a 13-inch retina MacBook Pro would be just perfect. But if Apple doesn't release it, I may wait or I may go with the 15-inch retina instead.
 
Apple may be just waiting for Haswell to put retina on all Mac models.

Note one interesting thing: all MacBook Airs and the 15-inch MacBook Pro retina received a new, thinner MagSafe connector. The non-retina MacBook Pros (both 13 and 15-inch) did not. This may be a signal that these models are going to vanish soon.

I would say that this would be a credible schedule to follow:

March 2013: 13-inch MacBook Pro with a retina display is released shortly after Intel releases Haswell. The 15-inch MacBook Pro with a retina display is refreshed, and its prices are slashed. The non-retina models are gone.

June-August 2013: 11 and 13-inch MacBook Airs with a retina display are released after the release of Haswell. They may or may not get a redesign at this point.

Just guessing, anyway. I don't know about the iMacs. Will they get retina displays next year?

That doesn't look likely at all.

For one, I don't think Intel will have running Haswell parts for mass production in March. You're looking at June 2013 there. May at the earliest.

For the other, if Apple fazes out the MacBook Pro line, they won't slash Retina pricing. In fact, I believe it'd be more like this:

Low-tier:
iPad $499 and up

Consumer-tier:
MacBook Air 11.6" $999 base
MacBook Air 13" $1199 base

Pro-tier
MacBook Pro w/ Retina 13" $1799 base w/ dual-core Haswell
MacBook Pro w/ Retina 15" $2199 base w/ quad-core Haswell and dedicated GPU

And I don't think MacBook Air will ever get Retina Display. The main reason being that if the MacBook Air 13" was to get a Retina Display, it would have higher resolution than the MacBook Pro 13".

It's also a safe bet that the 13" rMBP will replace the 15" cMBP pricing tier... as that means 13" MBA users can choose to upgrade their MacBook Air, or go straight for 13" rMBP. 15" rMBP will remain the high end model with quad-core processor and dedicated graphics. But I also believe that the 13" rMBP will have a quad-core model that's priced probably just about $100 or $200 cheaper than 15" rMBP.
 
That doesn't look likely at all.

Well, it may not. That was just a guess.

For one, I don't think Intel will have running Haswell parts for mass production in March. You're looking at June 2013 there. May at the earliest.

I wouldn't say that it is totally unlikely. Ivy Bridge was released in April 2012. Haswell should be ready for shipping one year later.

The first Haswell chips are expected to launch in the first semester of 2013, around March-June, according to Intel leaked roadmaps (http://www.computerbase.de/news/2012-03/aktualisierte-intel-prozessor-roadmap-fuer-den-desktop/).

Haswell may be released in March. But it may also be released in June. We don't know yet, and I would not be surprised either way. I just tried to make something that made sense.

For the other, if Apple fazes out the MacBook Pro line, they won't slash Retina pricing. In fact, I believe it'd be more like this:

Low-tier:
iPad $499 and up

Consumer-tier:
MacBook Air 11.6" $999 base
MacBook Air 13" $1199 base

Pro-tier
MacBook Pro w/ Retina 13" $1799 base w/ dual-core Haswell
MacBook Pro w/ Retina 15" $2199 base w/ quad-core Haswell and dedicated GPU

I don't know about that. Apple's price policy seems to fit everybody's pocket. I would bet on something like this instead, which is not much different from what you proposed:

iOS devices:

iPod Shuffle: US$ 49
iPod Nano: US$ 149
iPod Touch US$ 199 - US$ 399 (considering the previous generation model)
iPad: US$ 399 - US$ 829 (considering the previous generation model)

Consumer MacBooks:

MacBook Air 11": US$ 999 - US$ 1,099
MacBook Air 13": US$ 1,199 - US$ 1,499

Pro MacBooks:

MacBook Pro 13" (retina): US$ 1,499 - US$ 1,799
MacBook Pro 15" (retina): US$ 2,199 - US$ 2,499

IMHO, the real reason the 15-inch MacBook Pro is so expensive is because of the large sized SSDs. A 512 GB SSD is really expensive, and that's probably the reason why the high-end 15-inch retina model costs so much. But these SSDs drives tend to become cheaper with time. In addition, competitors will ship laptops with retina-like displays next year, for a much lower price. Apple will eventually drop the price of these machines, but not by much.

And I don't think MacBook Air will ever get Retina Display. The main reason being that if the MacBook Air 13" was to get a Retina Display, it would have higher resolution than the MacBook Pro 13".

I think it will get a retina display. Asus already has a 13-inch ultrabook with an IPS display with a 1920x1080 resolution. And Samsung has already showed a 13-inch ultrabook prototype with a dazzling 2560x1440 display. If Apple insists in keeping the 1440x900 resolution, the MacBook Air, which is now the king of ultrabooks, will end up as an inferior product.

It also puzzles me how Apple will sort out the problem of the resolution on the MacBook Air. Will it put a 2880x1800 resolution on a 13-inch MacBook Air? I don't think so. Perhaps Apple introduces a redesign of the MacBook Air in late 2013, with different screen formats, and introducing the retina display on these products.

[QUTE] It's also a safe bet that the 13" rMBP will replace the 15" cMBP pricing tier... as that means 13" MBA users can choose to upgrade their MacBook Air, or go straight for 13" rMBP. 15" rMBP will remain the high end model with quad-core processor and dedicated graphics. But I also believe that the 13" rMBP will have a quad-core model that's priced probably just about $100 or $200 cheaper than 15" rMBP.[/QUOTE]

Not a safe bet for me. The current 15-inch non-retina MacBook Pro has a price range of US$ 1,799 - US$ 2,199. The price of the high-end non-retina model is the same as the low-end retina model. If the 13-inch retina gets the same pricing, its higher end model will cost as much as the low-end 15-inch retina, and that doesn't match Apple's pricing practice.

I guess the low-end 13-inch retina will cost as much as the high-end 13-inch non-retina. And the high-end 13-inch retina will cost as much as the low-end 15-inch non retina.
 
I wouldn't say that it is totally unlikely. Ivy Bridge was released in April 2012. Haswell should be ready for shipping one year later.

But it took Apple up to June to unveil an Ivy Bridge upgrade. Even if Haswell is ready by 1-year frame, it'll still take about 2 months for Apple to get an announcement out.

IMHO, the real reason the 15-inch MacBook Pro is so expensive is because of the large sized SSDs. A 512 GB SSD is really expensive, and that's probably the reason why the high-end 15-inch retina model costs so much. But these SSDs drives tend to become cheaper with time. In addition, competitors will ship laptops with retina-like displays next year, for a much lower price. Apple will eventually drop the price of these machines, but not by much.

I don't think Apple will drop the price of anything. History has shown that they rarely do that.

They did it with the first iPhone, but their pricing structure has remained unchanged for the last... 6 years.

That aside, the 15" rMBP base uses a 256GB SSD. Those aren't that expensive. Yet Apple is still pricing the 15" rMBP pretty... out there. Why? Because they could, and because people will still buy them at that price.

I think it will get a retina display. Asus already has a 13-inch ultrabook with an IPS display with a 1920x1080 resolution. And Samsung has already showed a 13-inch ultrabook prototype with a dazzling 2560x1440 display. If Apple insists in keeping the 1440x900 resolution, the MacBook Air, which is now the king of ultrabooks, will end up as an inferior product.

I don't think Apple has ever been fazed by the competition introducing better specs on their computers.

I mean... look at the 13" MacBook Pro now. Even Apple's own 13" MacBook Air has a higher resolution screen, yet they have stubbornly pushed that low resolution since 2010.

I honestly don't see any motivation for Apple to start pushing higher resolution screens to the MacBook Air. The resolution math does not work out for what they have been doing, and it'll cannibalize the 13" Retina.

Not a safe bet for me. The current 15-inch non-retina MacBook Pro has a price range of US$ 1,799 - US$ 2,199. The price of the high-end non-retina model is the same as the low-end retina model. If the 13-inch retina gets the same pricing, its higher end model will cost as much as the low-end 15-inch retina, and that doesn't match Apple's pricing practice.

I guess the low-end 13-inch retina will cost as much as the high-end 13-inch non-retina. And the high-end 13-inch retina will cost as much as the low-end 15-inch non retina.

No. Actually, the 15-inch non-Retina MacBook Pro costs even more than the base 15-inch Retina MacBook Pro when you factor in all of the upgrades.

And it's a safe bet because if Apple follows the same non-Retina -> Retina pricing, it means the 13" Retina MacBook Pro will just be slightly less expensive than a maxed out MacBook Air 13". You shouldn't factor the 13" MacBook Pro non-Retina in at all because I believe it won't be on the market by the time the 13" Retina comes out. While that means a maxed out 13" Retina will undoubtedly be more expensive than a base 15" Retina, I don't see how it's going to be trouble for Apple if you decide to purchase a 13" or 15". They get your money either way.

I think it needs to be repeated that Apple is not a charity. They are a computer company. They are a business. They are not here to price stuffs so that you can afford them. They are here to price stuffs so that you can consider, and try to afford them. It's happened many times before, and I don't see how it'll change.
 
But it took Apple up to June to unveil an Ivy Bridge upgrade. Even if Haswell is ready by 1-year frame, it'll still take about 2 months for Apple to get an announcement out.

Apple took up to June to unveil Ivy Bridge laptops, but that is not the rule. Apple released updated Macs just after the release of new Intel processors in the past. That will depend on a business decision taken by Apple, or on other factors.

The fact is that Apple will be able to unveil an updated version of its products the day after Haswell is released - if it wants to or if there are other factors delaying such a release are another point.

I don't think Apple will drop the price of anything. History has shown that they rarely do that.

They did it with the first iPhone, but their pricing structure has remained unchanged for the last... 6 years.

Yes, that is true, but demand for the iPhone has always been astonishing.

While Apple doesn't usually drop the prices of anything, it has done some things it also usually don't do when it released the new line of MacBooks in June:

(1) Apple reduced the price of all MacBook Air models, except of the low-end 11-inch (this may have been a result of competition from the ultrabook and also to bump sales);

(2) Apple released only one model of a new generation of the MacBook Pro without taking the other models out of the market (and this may have been to the high cost of production of the new model);

(3) Apple dramatically raised the price of the top-range MacBook Pro (the 17-inch version, which sold for US$ 2,499, was dropped in favor of the retina MacBook Pro which sells for US$ 2,199 - US$ 2,799).

Remember that Apple has reduced the price of the MacBook Air, which costed a fortune when it launched back in 2008. It may do something similar with the MacBook Pro with a retina display this time.

That aside, the 15" rMBP base uses a 256GB SSD. Those aren't that expensive. Yet Apple is still pricing the 15" rMBP pretty... out there. Why? Because they could, and because people will still buy them at that price.

Well, a 256 GB SSD is still very expensive. Apple can sell a MacBook Pro with a retina display for US$ 2,199 to US$ 2,799 now, because it offers cheaper options to those who are not willing to spend so much on a laptop.

When Apple puts a retina display on its whole line of laptops, it will have to sell some of them for a lower price. Many people will still buy these laptops if they are priced high, but many will search other solutions.

I don't think Apple has ever been fazed by the competition introducing better specs on their computers.

I mean... look at the 13" MacBook Pro now. Even Apple's own 13" MacBook Air has a higher resolution screen, yet they have stubbornly pushed that low resolution since 2010.

Yes, it has. It just doesn't show up.

Remember the first generation of current unibody MacBook Pros, back in 2008?

The 13-inch model was still called just "MacBook" and they had a Core 2 Duo 2 GHz (P7350) and a 2.4 GHz (P8600) processors. The higher end (the P8600) shipped for US$ 241. The price of these MacBooks was US$ 1,299 and US$ 1,599, respectively.

Now, fast forward to the present. The 13-inch MacBook Pro Model has a Core i5-3210M at 2.5 GHz and a Core i7-3520M at 2.9 GHz. These chips sell for US$ 226 and US$ 346, respectively. Although Apple put better processors on the laptops, their price is lower than it was in 2008: the lower end sells for US$ 1,199 and the higher end, for US$ 1,499.

The current MacBook Pro may have a low resolution screen, but it has better specs than it had in 2008. It is a higher end computer than it used to be, and it compensates some of the outdated features.

I honestly don't see any motivation for Apple to start pushing higher resolution screens to the MacBook Air. The resolution math does not work out for what they have been doing, and it'll cannibalize the 13" Retina.

Well, let's see what happens. They will eventually have to put a retina display on the MacBook Air.

No. Actually, the 15-inch non-Retina MacBook Pro costs even more than the base 15-inch Retina MacBook Pro when you factor in all of the upgrades.

That is true, but that won't work as logic for sales purposes. Apple will put a price that attracts consumers. The current MacBook Pro with a retina display may work well as a showcase for Apple products, but the real consumers (most of them, at least) go out there and buy the cheaper models. If Apple starts to up the price of anything, people will go out and buy PCs instead.

And it's a safe bet because if Apple follows the same non-Retina -> Retina pricing, it means the 13" Retina MacBook Pro will just be slightly less expensive than a maxed out MacBook Air 13". You shouldn't factor the 13" MacBook Pro non-Retina in at all because I believe it won't be on the market by the time the 13" Retina comes out. While that means a maxed out 13" Retina will undoubtedly be more expensive than a base 15" Retina, I don't see how it's going to be trouble for Apple if you decide to purchase a 13" or 15". They get your money either way.

I'm not counting the 13-inch non-retina in the next upgrade.

I think it needs to be repeated that Apple is not a charity. They are a computer company. They are a business. They are not here to price stuffs so that you can afford them. They are here to price stuffs so that you can consider, and try to afford them. It's happened many times before, and I don't see how it'll change.

In fact, Apple will try to price their products similarly to what they have done in the past. Why has Apple kept the 15-inch non-retina when it introduced the 15-inch retina?

It's not because some customers would want a DVD drive.

It's because Apple knows that the 15-inch retina is a very expensive product, and that some people would buy a US$ 1,799 laptop, but not a US$ 2,199 one.

Apple is not charity. Far from that. Apple is business. And if it wants to keep as good business, it has to pay attention to what the consumers want and to what competition is doing. There's supply and demand, and things like that. Apple can price the 15-inch retina MacBook Pro as high as it wants because there is no competition. But what about when someone else releases a much cheaper retina laptop? Apple won't get rid of the laws of Economics just because it is mighty Apple.

It's true that high-end MacBooks always had a high price. But they also had low sales. The US$ 2,499 MacBook Pro 17" sold only 50,000 units in the first quarter of 2012, against more than 1.5 million units of the 13-inch model. Apple counts on the lower-end, cheaper models, to keep as a viable company. Its most popular product is the iPhone, which sells for US$ 650 unlocked, but it is much cheaper if you buy from a carrier. Just like every premium brand, Apple has to count on the lower-end, cheaper products, to sell, and on the higher-end to showcase how good it is. Mercedes-Benz and BMW do that.

Apple doesn't try to reach every consumer out there, but there is a loyal base of consumers. Apple knows that if it keeps the same price point these loyal consumers will replace their current Macs for new Macs, and it may even attract new consumers. But will these customers remain loyal to Apple if it suddenly decides to raise the price of its most popular laptop by US$ 600? It's a 50% increase. Very, very risky from a business perspective.
 
I think you are reading too much into it.

Here is a few things I'll address to keep the next responses short:

1) The 2010 MacBook Air was a redesign, or... you can actually call it a new line of MacBook. So Apple priced it appropriately to faze out the old "MacBook" (white) model. They created a new line of computer to replace an old one. They didn't "drop" the price of the Air.

2) Processor upgrades from one generation to the next is inevitable, but if you go out and check the specs of similarly configured competitors (from HP, Sony, Dell, etc...), you'll see that they either have much lower price point, or much better specs (even resolution), of the same generation. That shows Apple doesn't give a damn what the competition does as long as they can sell their computers. This is also the reason why a Retina Display on the MacBook Air is unlikely.

3) If Apple introduces a new device with a high price tag, then that isn't like they are increasing the price of anything... since that thing never existed before! You can't say it's a $600 increase when there was never a rMBP 13" on the market.

4) Like you said, Apple knows people will buy a $1799 laptop over a $2199 one, so... that's the sole reason why it makes sense for them to price the rMBP 13" at that level.

5) Regarding the $100 price drop (on the 13" MBP), the reality is that... it's not a price drop at all. $1299 back then is just about equal to $1199 now due to the economy scaling itself. Perhaps they'll drop the price of the 15" rMBP by $100 eventually, but that doesn't mean they'll go out of their way to do a $400 price cut or $500 price cut.

Honestly, I'm all for the rMBP 13", but I think the expectation for them to be cheap is just wishful thinking. Maybe it'll be cheaper than $1799, but I don't think it'll be cheaper by much.

If you find the price tag too high, then by all means, get a PC computer. I'd actually recommend a PC laptop to anyone on a budget myself.

Sorry if that sounds "snobbish", I'm actually just being "realistic". Apple makes good computers, and they can ask a premium for these computers because what they have crammed in (high resolution IPS display, quad-core processor, ample RAM, dedicated graphics, etc... in a light and thin all aluminum body) justifies the price tag for people who can afford it. They don't make computers to race with other manufacturers. That has never been the case at all. I don't see how they should start now. A lot of people (19 out of 20 from my last count) buy PCs instead of Mac computers all the time. That has never put a dent in Apple's business, and they have grown well thus far.
 
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I think you are reading too much into it.

Here is a few things I'll address to keep the next responses short:

Thank you. Thank will be really useful. I was taking too long writing those answers.

1) The 2010 MacBook Air was a redesign, or... you can actually call it a new line of MacBook. So Apple priced it appropriately to faze out the old "MacBook" (white) model. They created a new line of computer to replace an old one. They didn't "drop" the price of the Air.

Agree to a certain extent. It depends on your point of view.

The MacBook Air replaced the 'MacBook' line of computers. But not exactly. The white MacBook was similar to the lower-end 13-inch MacBook Pro, and the difference was mainly that it was made of polycarbonate instead of aluminium. It had a standard-voltage Intel processor, a 13" screen, a 5,400 RPM HD and an optical drive. Then Apple discontinues this product in favor of an 11-inch laptop with a low-voltage processor, an SSD drive (which is much faster but has only 64 GB of storage) and no optical drive. They are hardly interchengeable.

People who relied on the white MacBook could instead buy a MacBook Air for the same price or a MacBook Pro for US$ 200 more. I guess most of them opted for the second choice, given that the 13-inch lower-end MacBook Pro is Apple's most popular computer nowadays.

2) Processor upgrades from one generation to the next is inevitable, but if you go out and check the specs of similarly configured competitors (from HP, Sony, Dell, etc...), you'll see that they either have much lower price point, or much better specs (even resolution), of the same generation. That shows Apple doesn't give a damn what the competition does as long as they can sell their computers. This is also the reason why a Retina Display on the MacBook Air is unlikely.

I know that processor upgrades are inevitable. But Apple gave an additional bump to these upgrades. Apple used to put lower-end processors of their generations, and now it is using processors which rank higher.

The sucessor to the Core 2 Duo P7350 2 GHz is probably the Core i3-3110M 2.4 GHz. Both are the lowest-end of their generation.

And the successor to the Core 2 Duo P8600 2.4 GHz (priced US$ 241) is probably the Core i5-3660M 2.8 GHz (priced US$ 266). Both have similar prices.

Instead, Apple decided to put higher end processors inside the 13-inch laptops. Apple incurs additional costs in doing that, but the price of the 13-inch laptops has dropped US$ 100 since then.

Apple's MacBook Pro is still overpriced. But you can't find too many laptops with a Core i7-3520M processor sold for a much lower price. And that's because this processor alone costs US$ 346.

3) If Apple introduces a new device with a high price tag, then that isn't like they are increasing the price of anything... since that thing never existed before! You can't say it's a $600 increase when there was never a rMBP 13" on the market.

That is true. But the fact is that these products are still marketed as "MacBook Pro". So, while customers perceive an increase in the quality of the product, they also perceive a signficant raise in the price.

There are lots of customers out there, and they have different criteria to choose their machines. Some will buy a Mac, cost what may. Others will buy a cheaper Mac if the 13-inch MacBook Pro gets too expensive. And others may just give up buying a Mac and buy a Windows computer instead.

There are consumers who don't even know what is an SSD drive. These consumers will hardly compare the specifications of a MacBook Pro with those of other vendors to conclude that the Mac is overpriced. But they may find a US$ 1,799 13-inch MacBook Pro too expensive and they may find that the 1,199 13-inch MacBook Air is not exactly what they need.

There will be lots of Windows laptops just waiting for these consumers. Will Apple allow that?

4) Like you said, Apple knows people will buy a $1799 laptop over a $2199 one, so... that's the sole reason why it makes sense for them to price the rMBP 13" at that level.

What about the very attractive US$ 1,199 price tag? Will Apple leave that to the MacBook Air? Not everybody is willing to give up a Pro and get an Air instead.

Of course Apple would love to charge one billion dollars for a retina MacBook Pro. But the fact is that people won't buy one of those.

5) Regarding the $100 price drop (on the 13" MBP), the reality is that... it's not a price drop at all. $1299 back then is just about equal to $1199 now due to the economy scaling itself. Perhaps they'll drop the price of the 15" rMBP by $100 eventually, but that doesn't mean they'll go out of their way to do a $400 price cut or $500 price cut.

Probably SSDs got cheaper, so Apple could drop the prices of MacBook Airs.

Honestly, I'm all for the rMBP 13", but I think the expectation for them to be cheap is just wishful thinking. Maybe it'll be cheaper than $1799, but I don't think it'll be cheaper by much.

I think it will be more expensive than US$ 1,199, but cheaper than US$ 1,799. Something in-between. I guessed US$ 1,499, which is already very expensive for a laptop this size.

If you find the price tag too high, then by all means, get a PC computer. I'd actually recommend a PC laptop to anyone on a budget myself.

Well, my situation is a little bit different. It's not that I'm on a budget. I'm not. I'll happily pay US$ 2,199 or even US$ 2,799 for a good laptop. I am willing to spend even more than that. I could eve pay US$ 3,749, which is the amount the 15-inch MacBook Pro with a retina display maxed out costs in the US.

But the fact is that I live in Brazil and prices here are sky high due to heavy taxes and inefficiency. In Brazil, laptops cost more than double what they cost in the US.

The low-end 15-inch retina MacBook Pro (the US$ 2,199 model) costs US$ 4,900 here, and the higher-end (the 2,799 model) costs US$ 6,200. I don't know a single person who actually has one, because it is indeed über-expensive. I'm not buying a laptop at this price point. I just can't justify it.

The low-end 13-inch MacBook Air (that runs for US$ 1,199) costs US$ 2,500 here, and that's some money. I would be willing to pay even more than that for a 13-inch MacBook Pro with a retina display. If it costs the same as the current top-range 13-inch MacBook Pro (which runs for US$ 1,499 in the US), it will cost US$ 3,000, and I will still pay the price.

However, if Apple keeps pushing prices up, I'll just give up and buy a PC instead. I can't afford paying so much for a laptop. Especially living in a city such as Sao Paulo, where the risk of having my laptop stolen is very high.

If Apple is by any means eyeing international markets, it should be conscious that prices elsewhere are higher than in the US. Perhaps prices are not so high as here in Brazil (which has the world's most expensive laptops), but they are higher. If Apple pushes too far, European customers, for instance, may well give up a transition to the Mac.

While people may see that as being "snobbish", I consider that being "realistic". Apple makes good computers, and they can ask a premium for these computers because what they have crammed in (high resolution IPS display, quad-core processor, ample RAM, dedicated graphics, etc... in a light and thin all aluminum body) justifies the price tag for people who can afford it. They don't make computers to race with other manufacturers. That has never been the case at all. I don't see how they should start now. A lot of people (19 out of 20 from my last count) buy PCs instead of Mac computers all the time. That has never put a dent in Apple's business, and they have grown well thus far.

Indeed, Apple doesn't make computers to race with other manufacturers. But that's true to a certain extent. If Coca-Cola begins charging too much for its products, people will start buying Pepsi instead.

Apple may charge what it wants. But people - even the most fanatic Mac evangelists - still have budgets.
 
Well, actually...

1) The white MacBook was quite different from the Pro. Not only did it have a unibody white design instead of aluminum, the screen was covered by thin plastic instead of glass. That stripped away significant protection for the screen. On top of that, it also lacked an all-glass trackpad, and it still has a rocker for left and right click. When Apple replaced this computer with the MacBook Air, the MacBook Air brought along with it the all-glass trackpad, a thinner redesigned aluminum body, and backlight for the keyboard. I'd say that's already an improvement by itself in terms of build quality.

2) You are actually quite close, but... no cigar. The successor to the P8600 for this generation is the Core i5 3210M. It's priced at $225, which is lower. You also have to take into account the fact that Apple doesn't have to buy an integrated graphics processor since it's already built in to the processor. The overall cost actually went down. Not up.

3) Will Apple allow Windows computers to take away customers? Unfortunately, yes. It has happened for over a decade. It won't change now. Their goal has been and still is to make premium computers that cost a fortune. I haven't seen them deviate from that plan... ever.

4) Yeah, the $1199 spot will undoubtedly go to the MacBook Air. In fact, I have good reasons to say that they'll at least price the rMBP 13" above $1499: the high-end MBA 13" without any upgrade is $1499. I don't think Apple wants the rMBP to cannibalize into the MBA 13" sales, so they'll price it above that level. I think it'll at least be $1699 since they want to give the high-end MBA 13" some breathing room. It'll be that $200-more-for-Pro-or-stick-with-Air decision all over again... unless they drop the price for MacBook Air as well.

5) Well, like I said, Apple is not one to drop prices on a whim. Just because SSD prices go down doesn't mean they have to drop for Apple computers. The way I see it, the Air and the future Retina Pro will rely solely on the proprietary new connector that only Apple's MacBooks use. Prices for those are still sky high, so there is no incentive for Apple to drop them.

I understand the sentiment and the wish for an affordable high-end machine, but unfortunately, I don't think Apple has ever shown any mercy in terms of pricing. It's evident even now if you'd just look at their online store. Apple's pricing is very carefully placed so that none of their computers overlap one another, and if something is equally priced, you'll see trade-offs.

An rMBP 13" likely won't have any trade-off compared to a 13" MBA. It'll simply be a superior machine in every way if Apple follows the same design path as the rMBP 15". From what I can see, it'll most likely be very thin, very light (around 3.0 to 3.2 lbs if it follows the trend of the rMBP 15"), with more RAM, more SSD storage as base, and with a much faster processor.

And trust me, I do understand that people are on budgets. However, I think that makes it more important for pricing to be estimated more accurately... as it gives you a good idea on how much you need to save up in order to get something, and it also gives you an indication of whether or not you should abandon an idea and try to look for something else.
 
Well, actually...

1) The white MacBook was quite different from the Pro. Not only did it have a unibody white design instead of aluminum, the screen was covered by thin plastic instead of glass. That stripped away significant protection for the screen. On top of that, it also lacked an all-glass trackpad, and it still has a rocker for left and right click. When Apple replaced this computer with the MacBook Air, the MacBook Air brought along with it the all-glass trackpad, a thinner redesigned aluminum body, and backlight for the keyboard. I'd say that's already an improvement by itself in terms of build quality.

Indeed. But there were trade-offs. Not everybody is ready for trading processor speed for build quality.

2) You are actually quite close, but... no cigar. The successor to the P8600 for this generation is the Core i5 3210M. It's priced at $225, which is lower. You also have to take into account the fact that Apple doesn't have to buy an integrated graphics processor since it's already built in to the processor. The overall cost actually went down. Not up.

In fact, Intel has raised the prices of the processors over the years, so I think the real successor to the P8600 would be the i5-3660. Anyway, it was not the i7-3520M.

Apple bought integrated graphic processors from NVIDIA, but I don't know how much it paid for every one of them. I also don't know if they had any discount in buying the processor from Intel withouth the integrated processor. You are assuming that the cost went down, not up. I'm not quite sure about that.

3) Will Apple allow Windows computers to take away customers? Unfortunately, yes. It has happened for over a decade. It won't change now. Their goal has been and still is to make premium computers that cost a fortune. I haven't seen them deviate from that plan... ever.

You're pushing too far here.

Apple's purpose is not, and has never been, to make premium computers that cost a fortune.

They have done a lot of different things regarding the pricing of their products. Sometimes they went up, and sometimes they went down.

And, actually, if you look back, Apple prices have gone slightly down for the same category of products, not up.

Their computers have always been premium and expensive, but they have followed a consistent pricing. The MacBook with a retina display deviated from that, and I suspect that it was the reason why Apple kept the old-generation 15-inch MacBook Pro.

4) Yeah, the $1199 spot will undoubtedly go to the MacBook Air. In fact, I have good reasons to say that they'll at least price the rMBP 13" above $1499: the high-end MBA 13" without any upgrade is $1499. I don't think Apple wants the rMBP to cannibalize into the MBA 13" sales, so they'll price it above that level. I think it'll at least be $1699 since they want to give the high-end MBA 13" some breathing room. It'll be that $200-more-for-Pro-or-stick-with-Air decision all over again... unless they drop the price for MacBook Air as well.

That is a possibility, but I don't know about it.

Actually, I don't think it make any sense right now to have both the 13-inch Air and the 13-inch Pro priced the same. But the fact is that Apple is keeping both of them, and they have exactly the same price. I guess Apple knows how to do business better than I do, and they should have good reason to have these two lines of computers at the same time.

In addition, I think it is complicated to try to guess Apple's pricing strategy. i guess they will try to keep their profit margins (or reduce just a little bit, if it means to significantly increase sales), and not increase them. That business decision should be taken based on numbers and hours of discussion. The elements for taking such a decision are totally out of reach for mere mortals discussing this issue on an Internet forum.

5) Well, like I said, Apple is not one to drop prices on a whim. Just because SSD prices go down doesn't mean they have to drop for Apple computers. The way I see it, the Air and the future Retina Pro will rely solely on the proprietary new connector that only Apple's MacBooks use. Prices for those are still sky high, so there is no incentive for Apple to drop them.

I understand the sentiment and the wish for an affordable high-end machine, but unfortunately, I don't think Apple has ever shown any mercy in terms of pricing. It's evident even now if you'd just look at their online store. Apple's pricing is very carefully placed so that none of their computers overlap one another, and if something is equally priced, you'll see trade-offs.

An rMBP 13" likely won't have any trade-off compared to a 13" MBA. It'll simply be a superior machine in every way if Apple follows the same design path as the rMBP 15". From what I can see, it'll most likely be very thin, very light (around 3.0 to 3.2 lbs if it follows the trend of the rMBP 15"), with more RAM, more SSD storage as base, and with a much faster processor.

And trust me, I do understand that people are on budgets. However, I think that makes it more important for pricing to be estimated more accurately... as it gives you a good idea on how much you need to save up in order to get something, and it also gives you an indication of whether or not you should abandon an idea and try to look for something else.

I don't think Apple will drop the prices. It may drop the prices just a little bit, in order to compensate it raising the prices so much when it announced the 15-inch MacBook Pro. But it will not drop the prices overall.

What I don't think Apple will do - or at least I don't think Apple should do - is to raise the prices so much as you are saying they will. Computers do evolve, because technology evolves. If Apple is planning on charging more on their computers because of this evolution, then we're all in serious trouble because computers will get increasingly more expensive over time.

Now let me get something straight here. One thing is what I want to happen, the other thing is what I think will happen. And one thing has no influence over the other.

I of course want a high-end machine. I am willing to pay the price for a high-end machine. Like I said, I'm not on a constrained budget. Actually, I am willing to spend a lot of money in a new machine. I'll pay US$ 3,000 or even US$ 3,500 for a new computer. But there are limits, and I am not willing to pay as much as US$ 5,000 on a laptop computer. I agree to pay a premium for having a premium laptop. But I don't agree that this premium price to be constantly raised over and over again. If Apple adopts a strategy of raising prices constantly, then I'm out. I'll just buy a PC. I'll pick my US$ 3,500 and buy a über-high end PC computer instead of a tiny low-end MacBook Air. But that's just me and what I want.

Now, let me say how I think Apple prices work, what I think it makes sense from a business perspective. Apple customers are used to buy Apple products for a price. Apple's iPad costs US$ 499 since it was released in early 2010, so the next generation iPad, to be released in early 2013, is supposed to cost US$ 499. In 2012, Apple's iPad got a retina display, but it still costs US$ 499. Apple's 13-inch low-end MacBook Pro costs US$ 1,199. The price varied a little, but consumers always knew how much they expected to pay for the computer. It's been like this for years. I understand that Apple may want to charge a premium for a retina 13-inch Pro. But if Apple suddenly raises the price to US$ 1,799, several of these consumers will go away. It's a 50% increase. The 15-inch retina got a US$ 400 increase, which represented a much lower 22% increase. But a 50% increase? Many of the consumers are not willing to pay that amount in excess nor are willing to accept a MacBook Air instead of the Pro. They are different machines, and there are trade-offs. Some of these trade-offs are acceptable, and some are not. I'm not saying that Apple will not do it. I'm just saying that I think Apple won't do it. Apple's 13-inch MacBook Pro is Apple's best-selling computer. Will Apple really kill its best-seller computer? People may or may not migrate to the MacBook Air. Some will, and some won't. From a business perspective, it's a decision that involves a high risk.
 
Even if the 13" rMBP were released this month I'd still hold on and wait for Haswell. The Haswell IGP will be at least twice as fast as the current Intel HD 4000, equivalent to a NVidia GeForce GT 640M, and overall gains in performance as well as battery life should be significant. I don't want a 13" MacBook Pro with dedicated graphics but the current Intel solution isn't a quantum leap over the NVidia GeForce 320M in the 2010 model and will have trouble with the retina resolution. It's only another six months...
 
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