I think there's a real possibility that they'll put a discrete GPU in a 13" rMBP. Removing the optical drive frees up more than enough room to squeeze a better GPU in there. I'm going to predict that it'll be sold with a dual core i7 and a GT640
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When the 13-inch MacBook Pro with retina display is going to be released?
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I think there's a real possibility that they'll put a discrete GPU in a 13" rMBP. Removing the optical drive frees up more than enough room to squeeze a better GPU in there. I'm going to predict that it'll be sold with a dual core i7 and a GT640
In terms of processor speed, the Air in 2012 is actually comparable to the Pro in 2010.
I don't think the i5-3660M is the "successor" to the P8600 simply because... Apple doesn't use it. The low-end Pro 13" 2012 model uses the i5-3210M that runs at 2.5GHz. Here's the specs:
http://ark.intel.com/products/67355/Intel-Core-i5-3210M-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-3_10-GHz-rPGA
Uhm... no. Apple has always made premium computers that cost a fortune. The first MacBook Air is the prime example.
Following that legacy, I don't think the Retina MacBook Pro is the odd one out at all.
The reason why their prices have seemingly gone down is because the economy has scaled down. But if you look at Apple's real pricing from an economic standpoint, they are actually the same pricing tiers. That's how they make a profit.
Maybe they don't say out loud the "cost a fortune" part, but Steve Jobs and Tim Cook have been quoted on multiple occasions to blurt out something along the line of "our goal is to make the best computer we can regardless of the cost".
Apple has always kept a device for one last generation before fazing it out. It happened with the old non-unibody MacBook Pro, it happened with the MacBook White, and I think it's happening with the unibody MacBook Pro now.
It's really nothing new if you've been with Apple for all this time.
And it's nothing hard to guess Apple's pricing strategy. You said so yourself that they have had a good track record of keeping their pricing tiers consistent. I think you are just having a really hard time trying to swallow the fact that the Retina MacBook Pro 13" may end up being more expensive.
Well, again, since the Retina MacBook Pro 13" does not exist yet, there is no "raising the price" to consider. It's a whole new computer design, not just an upgrade from the MacBook Pro 13".
It likely won't be as atrocious as $1799, but I don't think it'll be significantly cheaper because again, it'll cannibalize the MacBook Air 13", and I have good reasons to believe Apple will want to avoid that.
There is a huge hole left in the $1599 and up pricing tier for Apple to slot the rMBP 13" in, and I am 99% sure Apple will do just that. If the asking price is too much for some people, then again, I recommend that you start looking for Windows alternatives.
Apple has never been one to try to "keep" or "capture" customers with their MacBook line. In fact, when netbooks were the craze, Apple did the unthinkable and released $999 "netbooks" in the guise of the MacBook Air. It sold like crazy.
On that same note, the MacBook Pro 13" is no longer the best selling MacBook. The MacBook Air (11.6" and 13") are slowly replacing it. Overall total sales for the MBP 13" still boasts higher, but the machine has had a 4-year run whereas the MacBook Air has had 2 years. A per-year count shows that the MacBook Air 13" is about equal to the MacBook Pro 13" now.
So I don't think there is any "risk" involved in Apple trying to kill off the 13" MBP or 15" MBP.
There is no successor indeed, because Intel's line of Ivy Bridge processors is much smaller than the line of Core 2 Duo processors. But, in Intel's logic, the i5-3660M would be the successor of the P8600.
Well, Apple does a great job in making people believe that there is simply no competition for its products and that it not concerned about what any other vendor does.
Of course that is not true. And this is not what Apple's attorney told the court in the lawsuit it filed against Samsung. Apple keeps an eye on competition. Every company does. It's part of the business. Apple does computers, and the Mac is just a computer which may well be replaced by a PC if consumers feel that the PC is more worth it.
People may want to believe that Apple does only ultra-high-priced premium products, but that's simply not true. It's just part of Apple's magic. Apple became the world's most valuable company not because of high-end Macs, but because of cheaper iPhones and iPads, which nearly everybody can afford. Apple will not drop the quality or the prices of its products. But of course Apple will also not raise the price of these products to a point where it will let consumers go away. The iPhone 5 is probably the hottest product in the world right now, and is selling out everywhere. Despite its build quality being better and the hype being incredible, it will not be sold for a higher price than the iPhone 4S was sold last year.
I'll give you some examples of how Apple is aware of the competition:
(1) Apple sued Samsung to protect its intellectual property rights. But it's clear to me that the real reason why Apple chose Samsung and not other vendors (such as HTC, for instance) is that Samsung's Galaxy line of smartphones and tablets is the real competition for Apple's iPhone and iPad.
(2) Apple dropped the price of the MacBook Airs. It may or may not be a coincidence, but that comes in a time where the ultrabook is catching up and vendors are starting to drop the prices of their products so they can steal some customers away from Apple. Of course Apple will never assume that, but this may well be the reason. The price drop of the Air was certainly not for charity purposes. In addition, Apple has already filed patents for the form factor of the MacBook Air; it may threaten ultrabook vendors with filesuits if they start to represent any significant competition to the Air. Asus and Acer have already shown concerns about that.
Yes, it is true.
No, I'm not. In fact, Apple has not even launched the retina MacBook Pro, and we don't know its price yet, so I'm not having a hard time trying to swallow something that has not even happened yet. You're basically telling me that I'm spoiling my argument with something that I want to happen. Well, I'm not. I'm just trying to make a reasonable argument here, and that has absolutely nothing to do with what I am going to do or not when Apple actually releases the product.
I might say, on the same line of argumentation, that you're just trying to justify the fact that you paid a small fortune for a retina 15-inch MacBook Pro and you don't want to admit that a 13-inch retina may turn out to be considerably cheaper. Well, let's just leave this kind of argumentation aside, because it doesn't add anything to the discussion and the only purpose of it is to disqualify the discussant.
While it is a new computer design, if Apple markets it as a MacBook Pro, it will attract current MacBook Pro owners to buy the next generation. The iPhone 5 also has a new smartphone design, but it appeals to current iPhone owners.
Apple may want to avoid cannibalization. I really think that Apple's current price strategy of putting the 13-inch MacBook Pro and the 13-inch MacBook Air at the same price point doesn't make sense. I don't know what Apple will do about it, but I guess it will price the 13-inch MacBook Pro with a retina display somewhere in-between the 15-inch Pro and the 13-inch Air.
I think the price point will heavily depend on the configuration of the 13-inch retina. If the low-end model comes with a 128 GB SSD, then Apple may price it at US$ 1,299 - US$ 1,499. If the low-end model comes with a 256 GB SSD, then I think Apple will price it at US$ 1,599 - US$ 1,799. In the first case, the low-end Pro will cannibalize the high end Air; in the second case, the high-end 13-inch Pro will cannibalize the low-end 15-inch Pro. The only way out would be to restructure the pricing strategy.
And please don't use the argument that the price is too high for me. That sounds really snobbish and even offensive. As I said before, I would have no problem in paying US$ 1,599 and even US$ 3,749 for a good laptop. However, the "asking price" that I would have to pay here in Brazil is something nearly US$ 5,000, which is really atrocious by any standards. But that is not even the point. Apple certainly doesn't want to appeal to everybody. But it also certainly does not want to alienate consumers who bought MacBooks in the past. I think it will have some common sense at pricing the 13-inch retina laptop.
Well, Apple did compete with netbooks, but not in a direct way. It (i) redesigned the MacBook Air and dropped its price significantly to cost from US$ 999; and (ii) released the iPad, selling for US$ 499 (which was roughly the price of a "good" netbook, and had a similar set of features, implemented in a whole different manner). By doing this, Apple simply killed the netbooks. Steve Jobs himself said that the iPad was the device that should be used for Internet access, and not the netbook.
I don't have the numbers. If you could send me, I would appreciate.
There are always risks involved in business decisions such as these. Any business decision involves some degree of risk. Apple may or may not run the risk. But the risk is there.
But again, Apple never used it. I think the main factor is what Apple uses, not what Intel considers a successor... because either way, only what Apple uses in their computer makes up the cost.
I don't see how Apple suing Samsung has anything to do with this. Of course Apple has always had competitors. Apple sues competitors when they have the chance, but I don't see any indication for the past two decades that Apple was trying to outdo its competitors with regards to specs for their computers. If anything, Apple has always sort of gone their own way in terms of designing devices. Prime example: the iPhone 5 nonwithstanding, both the iPhone 4 and 4S were significantly outclassed in CPU performance for a long while.
And Apple has always made premium computers. I haven't seen them price any of their computer under the premium line. What are you trying to say? That they must play catch up in the race to the bottom with other OEMs in order to appease customers? They have done the complete opposite for a long time, and it's working well.
And I don't see how Apple "dropped" the price of the MacBook Air. They simply upped the baseline specs.
If you are talking about the original 2008 Air, please be advised that Ultrabooks did not exist until long after Apple unveiled the 2010 Air redesign.
I added that comment because you disregarded anything that has to do with Apple being this big bad company out to get money, and instead, I keep getting that since you think customers won't like the pricing tier, that Apple must somehow adjust.
I actually don't really care much for a 13" rMBP, but I feel the "urge" to actually try and set things in context as I think there are some crazy expectation that Apple must somehow make the rMBP 13" much cheaper than the 15" version. In my opinions, that's unreasonable.
If you see that as me trying to justify my purchase, well. I won't deny the computer cost me quite a bit. But it doesn't need any justification in my opinions. It's the best computer I have ever had. I have no doubt that when Apple introduces the same redesign in a smaller form factor, that it would be an instant hit for many others as well. Plus it'll be more affordable for them. However, I also believe that for the excellence in their engineering expertise, Apple deserves a good cut of the spoils. I never regretted buying the rMBP 15" even if it was overpriced because I think they deserve the extra cash. And that's why I think it's unreasonable when people try to ask for a much cheaper rMBP 13". But that's just my opinions.
The 13" MacBook Pro will be gone in due time, so it's not weird at all. Apple also made the MacBook White and the MacBook Air 11.6" available both at the same $999 price point when they fazed out the White.
If you haven't noticed, that's basically their way of saying "whichever machine remaining at this price point by next year will replace the other computer completely".
Well... the price is too high for you, no?
I mean... you keep mentioning how much you are willing to pay, but yet your circumstances make it so that you'd actually have to pay much more.
So I guess what it all boils down to is... can you pay the price that the Brazil market will ask for a rMBP 13" if Apple prices it at the same level as the 15" MBP or not?
I know it sounds snobbish... but honestly, when something is outside of your range, I think it's much better to look at cheaper and capable alternatives rather than having false hopes and expectations. I won't discount the possibility that the rMBP 13" may come at a cheaper price point, however... there are more indications pointing to it being more expensive. A strong one being the pricing tier of the MacBook Air 13".
Yes. What I was trying to say is that Apple is actually using higher end (and more expensive) processors now than it used back in 2008.
Yes, I know that. I just used the Samsung example to show that, contrary to what many people might think, Apple is not immune to competition.
Apple doesn't try to outdo the competitions in regard to specifications, but it probably does on real world performance. And Apple uses high-end components on its devices; never the highest end, though. It's always on par with competition, but perhaps just because the options of processors to be used are so limited.
Apple is certainly not on a race to the bottom. It will not drop the quality of its products to match the price of competitors. But it may reduce the profit margins to keep customers if it thinks that competitors are up to the challenge and that measure will lead to higher sales and profits. It doesn't mean to race to the bottom, it just means to remain competitive.
Apple makes premium laptops, but not all its laptops have unique features.
The MacBook Pro with a retina display offers something unique. It's a greatly designed computer, it has a gorgeous IPS retina display that no other laptop has, it has a large SSD drive, it has a quad-core processor, and it is still thin and light and with a good battery life. No competitors at all. So Apple has room to charge a hefty price for it. But retina displays and SSDs will probably become much more common in 2013 and they will eventually become standard. When that happens - and that's not too far away - Apple will have no reason to charge more for the retina MacBook Pro than it charged for the non-retina model. The price difference of a MacBook Pro and other similar laptops is already large; it will become even larger if Apple keeps these prices for the 15-inch retina models.
I'll give you an example. I've just searched Amazon.com and I found out that a laptop which has somewhat similar specs to the 15-inch MacBook Pro (non-retina) costs about US$ 1,000. The 15-inch non-retina MacBook Pro costs US$ 1,799, and there is a price difference of 80%. A big gap. Now suppose that within two years, retina displays and SSDs are much cheaper than they are right now and that this US$ 1,000 laptop has a configuration which is similar to the then-MacBook Pro. If the MacBook Pro still costs US$ 2,199, then the price difference will have become even larger: there would be a difference of 120%. If Apple does that, it will increase the price gap (and the so-called "Apple tax" that many people say Apple charges). Will it make sense? If people thinks that Apple's laptops are worth more than double PC laptops with similar specifications, it will make sense. But it will be much more difficult for Apple to justify this price difference once PCs catch up.
Apple dropped the price of the Air in June 2012. Before the refresh, models used to cost US$ 999, US$ 1,199, US$ 1,299 and US$ 1,599. Now, they cost US$ 999, US$ 1,099, US$ 1,199 and US$ 1,499. That's a price drop. It may have something to do with ultrabooks catching up. Apple did not reduce the quality of its MacBook Airs to drop the price; it just found room to reduce its margins.
Well, it's always about the money.
Customers may not like the pricing tier, but if they keep buying Macs even not liking it, than it just won't matter to Apple. The problem is that consumers may not like the price of Macs and start buying PCs instead. Theoretically speaking, the chance of that happening is higher if the increase in prices is large. As much as a person likes drinking tea, he will end up drinking coffee if the tea gets too expensive. This example, which was used by a professor of Economics I had once, fits perfectly here. Apple may rise prices, but it will have to do it carefully not to scare away customers.
There are indeed expectations that Apple unleashes a US$ 1,199 13-inch retina MacBook Pro. It is very unlikely to happen, and I agree with you on this. Apple would have to radically cut is margins and there would be no reason for the MacBook Air to exist in such a case. It may even happen, but I am not expecting that. I expect a price increase. If Apple increases US$ 400 in price (it did that with the 15-inch MacBook Pro), then the price of the 13-inch retina will be US$ 1,599. I think that is the maximum the price of the 13-inch could go. More than that sounds like too much of an increase.
I am pretty sure that the 15-inch MacBook Pro of yours is an incredible machine, and quite likely the best laptop in the world right now.
However, it is not unreasonable to ask for a much cheaper 13-inch. There are Mac users who are using their MacBook Pros for the last few years, and they bought Mac software, and they keep their files in a format that would only be opened by Mac software. Then, these users will have to buy a new computer. Of course they expect the new computer to be better than the computer they bought in the past, because technology evolves, and new and better products replace older products at the same price point. That's the way things have been. But what if the new computer costs 50% more than these users paid a few years ago? Right now, users may just skip the US$ 2,199 retina MacBook Pro and buy the US$ 1,799 non-retina model, which costs about the same as when they bought their computers. But what about next year, when Apple drops the current MacBook Pros in favor of the retina ones? That's not reasonable.
There's a good chance of that happening.
Or they may be just testing the MacBook Air to see if it can beat the Pro in terms of sales at the same price point.
Well, what I wanted to say is that the price I am willing to pay on a Mac did not affect the analysis I have made on my posts. I am trying to do an unbiased analysis on how I think Apple would take the decision to price its products.
But, as you mentioned, I will give you a few details on how the prices work here and you'll know why it's nearly unthinkable of buying a 15-inch retina MacBook Pro in Brazil - not only for me, but for everybody else.
Prices of any consumer electronic products in Brazil are outrageous. Steve Jobs once said that he would not open an Apple Store in Brazil because of the "crazy taxes" charged by the government. Indeed, laptops here cost more than double they do in the US. As you may wonder, however, the average income of a Brazilian person is about US$ 10,000-11,000 a year. Four to five times lower than the average income in the US and, still, the laptops cost double the price. The result of that is that the huge majority of laptops sold around here are very low-end products (netbooks, laptops equipped with Celeron processors or processors belonging to older generations). A Mac - any Mac - is considered to be a luxury product. And the base 15-inch retina MacBook Pro, which sells for US$ 5,000, is something out of this world for the country's standards: it costs as much as half the yearly average income of a Brazilian. Can you imagine a laptop costing US$ 20,000 or US$ 25,000 in the US? That would be something similar to the cost of a 15-inch retina MacBook Pro here.
I would like to buy a 15-inch retina Pro here. I think it is too expensive, and I am not willing to pay so much (US$ 5,000) on a laptop. But, fortunately, expensive as it is, I can afford it if I want to. However, there are three additional factors that prevent me from buying it: (i) people will call me crazy and say that I am throwing money away (and I won't blame them); (ii) the laptop may get stolen easily (people are advised not to talk on iPhones in Sao Paulo streets because the risk of having the phone stolen is very high); and (iii) with that money, I can travel to the US and buy a 15-inch retina MacBook Pro and there would be some money left.
Keep your fingers crossed for the rumored October 10th Media Event invitations. I hope they really publish a 13" rMBP and not only the iPad Mini. My mac was destroyed and I've been using borrowed notebooks and weird things for about a month already. If nothing comes out in October, I'll have to get a MBA... 
Doesn't look good for October. Only the iPad Mini has been rumored for the upcoming event with no word whatsoever of a 13" rMBP.
I may just make the move to the 15" rMBP if nothing is announced. A beautiful machine whose size I could probably get used to, especially since I work and play on the same system. And they seem to be shipping with Samsung displays now.
I may just make the move to the 15" rMBP if nothing is announced. A beautiful machine whose size I could probably get used to, especially since I work and play on the same system. And they seem to be shipping with Samsung displays now.
Keep your fingers crossed for the rumored October 10th Media Event invitations. I hope they really publish a 13" rMBP and not only the iPad Mini. My mac was destroyed and I've been using borrowed notebooks and weird things for about a month already. If nothing comes out in October, I'll have to get a MBA...
I'll hold out til 10th, and if nothing seems to happen, then it's gonna be Air 13" for me. Can't afford rmbp 15"
I went ahead and got the 15 rmbp in Sept after waiting around to iphone announcement for the 13...but was hoping to get a 13 rmbp for my wife Christmas. If it doesn't come out its the Air for her as well .... can't afford another 15 rmbp.
Keep your fingers crossed for the rumored October 10th Media Event invitations. I hope they really publish a 13" rMBP and not only the iPad Mini. My mac was destroyed and I've been using borrowed notebooks and weird things for about a month already. If nothing comes out in October, I'll have to get a MBA...
This iPad mini story sounds really strange to me.
Apple has just held an event to unleash several iOS devices - the iPhone 5 and a new line of iPods. It could have launched an iPad mini on that event. But it didn't.
The next iPad is supposed to get released early next year. The iPad mini could be released together with the next version of the iPad.
Why would Apple skip these two opportunities to launch the iPad mini and hold a separate event to release this product? The release schedule for the iPad mini will not match any of the other iOS devices. Will Apple really do that?
Why not a retina 13-inch MacBook Pro instead? Or the new iMac, which doesn't get an update in over a year now? C'mon, Apple, enough of iOS toys. Give us some real thing!
I hope so. But the mini will sell like hotcakes if it is released before Christmas.
It certainly will. The problem is that Apple's business is too focused on iOS devices right now...
I would prefer the 15-inch model myself, because it has a larger screen and more work area. However, because I have to carry the laptop around the whole day, the 15-inch might be a little too heavy and the 13-inch would be more appropriate for my needs.
in the past few years iToys have been Apple's major source of $$$$ all the rest has been neglected specially the iMac (who originally re-lauched Apple) and the Mac Pro...
C'mon Apple don't be a turd.
Exactly.. Just all the kids running around with a iPhone, iPad or iPod - or one of each just 'cause it's "cool".. Some of us actually use Macs as workhorses and needs new stuff!! I don't think it's coming though..
Wow people are really being optimistic, top answer is Oct right now and there is no way in hell that is happening so soon. Maybe next year with the intro of haswell. Remember how long it took for apple to release the 11in air even though 11in was the standard ultraportable/netbook size back when the Air was released. I dont see the 13in rMBP coming before Haswell. Maybe even later.
I find it really disappointing to buy a premium laptop and then see Apple neglect it in favor of the all the hype around these hot-selling toys. Really, really disappointing.
The 10th should be the date of event-invitations, so we'll soon know what to buy
It'd be really great if they release it now. Honestly I'd be one of the first persons to sell my MBA and jump get the 13in rMBP, but i just dont think it is likely
Unfortunately, I guess you are right.
I am still not convinced that there will be an event in October, though.
I would only get the Air if I were sure I'd be able to get rid of it when the Haswell models arrive. The Haswell upgrade will be insignificant to the 15" rMBP model, but promises to be a leap in performance for the 13" systems.
If this is the new direction Apple is turning, with closed, non user upgradable systems and becoming more of a gadget manufacturer I guess this one will be my last Mac, why pay a higher price if making computers for professionals isn't going to be the main focus anymore? I used and enjoyed Macs in my work for many years but the unnecessary hype they are putting on a smartphone for example and "forget" about the Mac Pro, the flagship desktop, supposedly professional oriented computer it really makes me doubt about the will of Apple
to make computers anymore.
Maybe they should split into 2 separated divisions one for the iToys and one for the real stuff
Yeah maybe, but thinking about properly another year waiting makes the existing models attractive.. I'll go for the ultimate 13 Air, it this October-thing blows (which seemingly is the case)
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I'm sorry to say but; Apple has gone mainstream, buddy
Same here, though the 2010's ultimate was fast enough for me, so I might go for a i5 or a refurb 2011-model, because I still have plenty of old magsafe adapters. Or are the 2011/12 i5 MBAs slower than the ultimate Core2Duo Air from 2010?
I'm also very uncertain about the 13" rMBP's screen. In the end it will only be an effective resolution of 1280, which really feels as if it's far too low for my purposes and scaling up sounds really bad, as I'm building websites and need to take care of single pixels.
I'm takin a break from the massive response quotes since we will soon see whether Apple will bring a rMBP 13", and at what price point.
If the rMBP 13" follows the trend of the 15" version, then that means you'll have the option to scale to higher effective desktop resolutions like 1440 x 900 or 1680 x 1050. Both of which will give you significantly more desk space and still remain sharp, though I wonder how much of a performance hit it would be on the 13" model...
1680 x 1050 on 13" looks about the same as 1920 x 1200 on 15" from what I can tell (same pixel density count). And if it's like that, I bet you will love the 13" rMBP since I love my 15" rMBP at 1920 x 1200. It looks super sharp, gives almost no distinction between Retina and non-Retina ("almost" because I can still notice non-Retina being blurrier), and the desk space is huge.
If the rMBP 13" follows the trend of the 15" version, then that means you'll have the option to scale to higher effective desktop resolutions like 1440 x 900 or 1680 x 1050. Both of which will give you significantly more desk space and still remain sharp, though I wonder how much of a performance hit it would be on the 13" model...
1680 x 1050 on 13" looks about the same as 1920 x 1200 on 15" from what I can tell (same pixel density count). And if it's like that, I bet you will love the 13" rMBP since I love my 15" rMBP at 1920 x 1200. It looks super sharp, gives almost no distinction between Retina and non-Retina ("almost" because I can still notice non-Retina being blurrier), and the desk space is huge.