All iPads Where is Apple's rebuttal to Microsoft Surface?

[sracer]

I agree, heck, I can't even decide on what I want, never mind how this will shake out for consumers

I'm still on the fence of keeping my MBP vs. getting the SP3. Both have strengths and weaknesses.

If you're "ok" with the current state of Modern UI apps available, then in my opinion it is a no-brainer... Surface Pro 3. You get a tablet that will serve you well as a tablet and a notebook.

The lack of apps isn't cutting it for me, that's why I'm going to trade my Surface in to get a Macbook Air. With all of the stackable deals going on at Best Buy this week, I can get a new MBA 11.6" for $450. That's what a Surface 2 costs.

 

[Infinitewisdom]

What Apple is doing is very smart. Rather than trying to meld two operating systems into one, they're enabling to interoperate better. This way, developers continue to be enthusiastic about developing for ipad. I have no doubt that as long as ipad hardware continues to get more capable, the apps will follow in sophistication. Big developers who've had success in traditional PC market will include convergence abilities in their own apps, thus making an actual convergence unnecessary.

 

[wolfpackfan]

Well I have changed my opinion on this subject. I had been thinking all along that what I really want is a larger iPad that runs OS X. After playing with the new SP3 for a long time yesterday, I've changed my mind. A full featured OS just doesn't work well in that form factor IMO, even with a 12" screen. The controls were just too small to use easily. I found myself having to do multiple touches just to get anything to happen. The desktop apps are just not optimized for a tablet form factor. I know you have the stylus, but after having multiple iPads and iPhones I refuse to go back to using a stylus. Very happy with my iPad now, and won't even consider switching to the SP3 and knowing Apple I really don't think a iPad with OS X is in their future. And that is fine with me.

 

[Meister]

I know you have the stylus, but after having multiple iPads and iPhones I refuse to go back to using a stylus.

remember the first iPhone keynote? Steves joke about the stylus? I loved it
That was in 2009! Its 2014.
Styluses are for people who need a tablet to draw on. Thats not mass compatible.
The surface is a niche product. MS can have it.

 

[nixiemaiden]

I really like the concept of the Surface Pro 3 and also wish that Apple would give a go at the concept.

I use my iPad 90% of the time and it is very rare that I use my laptop. It is annoying to have to keep it for the 10% of the time where something is inconvenient to do on a tablet.

What I want is a tablet that has a full OS on it that works well with touch, ability to use a fine tip pen for taking notes, a usb port, and an sd slot. I just don't want to spend $1300 on the Surface and then have Apple do something similar and better.

I really hope that the reason they haven't answered is that they are working on something even more awesome.

 

[s2mikey]

Well I have changed my opinion on this subject. I had been thinking all along that what I really want is a larger iPad that runs OS X. After playing with the new SP3 for a long time yesterday, I've changed my mind. A full featured OS just doesn't work well in that form factor IMO, even with a 12" screen. The controls were just too small to use easily. I found myself having to do multiple touches just to get anything to happen. The desktop apps are just not optimized for a tablet form factor. I know you have the stylus, but after having multiple iPads and iPhones I refuse to go back to using a stylus. Very happy with my iPad now, and won't even consider switching to the SP3 and knowing Apple I really don't think a iPad with OS X is in their future. And that is fine with me.

I agree. They already make a larger iPad with OSX on it. It's called a Mac book Air.

Really though, there is no need to have everything converge into one. Keep the devices separate and being awesome at their assigned tasks. Enough with this one device and one OS paradigm. I don't like it at all.

 

[tdale]

I really like the concept of the Surface Pro 3 and also wish that Apple would give a go at the concept.

I use my iPad 90% of the time and it is very rare that I use my laptop. It is annoying to have to keep it for the 10% of the time where something is inconvenient to do on a tablet.

What I want is a tablet that has a full OS on it that works well with touch, ability to use a fine tip pen for taking notes, a usb port, and an sd slot. I just don't want to spend $1300 on the Surface and then have Apple do something similar and better.

I really hope that the reason they haven't answered is that they are working on something even more awesome.

Microsoft NZ have released some SP3 to a few resellers on my NZ tech forum, and they love it. Not surprising as essentially its a MBA, with a removable screen so you can use OSX or iOS. Keyboard off course isn't a "proper" laptop keyboard, not sure how that is considered yet.

The question to ask, is, "Would I be happy if i can remove my screen off my MBA and use OSX or iOS from a tablet?"

Some here talk about it not being good at either, but an SP3 in laptop form is a full laptop. In tablet form its a full Metro tablet that can also run Win8 if required. It isn't a physically cutdown, trimmed, lite, laptop cum tablet

 

[maflynn]

I really like the concept of the Surface Pro 3 and also wish that Apple would give a go at the concept.

I've been waffling on whether to buy a sp3 myself. Some days I'm all gung ho for it, others I'm a bit tepid. What remains though is the design and functionality is so appealing. I think if apple would do it,, they'd have a hit on their hands, but I think that hit would be at the expense of the MBAs. Would they make more money on a tablet running OSX or a MBA? Its a stragegic decision and one that apple has already made. iPad for the masses and MBAs for those that need portable light laptops.

Microsoft NZ have released some SP3 to a few resellers on my NZ tech forum, and they love it.

That has been the overall consensus on those that have gotten their hands on it. While its true, MS probably made sure their ardent supporter were given the tablet first. I think the overall positive feedback is such that its a good product. It has short comings to be sure, but then all products do. The MBA and iPad have their shortcomings, and the SP3 does.

 

[Night Spring]

I really like the concept of the Surface Pro 3 and also wish that Apple would give a go at the concept.

I use my iPad 90% of the time and it is very rare that I use my laptop. It is annoying to have to keep it for the 10% of the time where something is inconvenient to do on a tablet.

But the thing is, each year, that percent of things that are inconvenient on a tablet keeps shrinking. iOS 8 is going to have iCloud drive, and while it's still not entirely clear how that will work, it's a big step forward in giving iOS a file system like people have been asking for. If Apple eventually comes around to give iOS better pen support, then iOS could almost do everything that can be done on OS X, provided devs write apps for it.

For instance, one of the things I still need my desktop/laptop for is editing ePubs. But I just realized that it can be done on the iPad. Put the ePub in Good Reader, unzip it, edit the files (which are all text files), and zip them back up. So all we need is a dev to write an app that automates this unzip - zip process, and voila! One less task that needs to be done on a desktop system.

In the end, I think the tasks that are left for "desktops" will be tasks that require a bigger screen than a tablet. I mean, I wouldn't want to be editing a large excel file on a Surface. I'd want a 20+ inch monitor for that.

 

[AttilaTheHun]

I agree. They already make a larger iPad with OSX on it. It's called a Mac book Air.

Really though, there is no need to have everything converge into one. Keep the devices separate and being awesome at their assigned tasks. Enough with this one device and one OS paradigm. I don't like it at all.

You have some points me too

macbook air don't need touch screen, win 8.1 does.
tablets ipad or surface they need it,
also stylus is a big plus if you are a student or any pro that use it, iPads pen is not what i need, the surface pro 3 will be in my home near my iPad air and the mbp

 

[Charliebird]

While I really like the looks of the Surface Pro 3 and just not ready to pull the trigger. In someways it makes a lot of sense I'm not a writer so in laptop mode I wouldn't be bothered by the keyboard. For passive web browser I prefer using a tablet. I also really approve of MS switch to a 3:2 format. Finally, I would really like to just own one piece of technology.

So here's my issues with the Surface Pro 3. It's too expensive. Lack of app's optimized for the tablet form. The Intel Broadwell chips are coming right around the corner which could dramatically change the form factor by only requiring passive cooling. Finally, I'm not a fan of Windows 8.1.

 

[Newtons Apple]

No matter what anyone thinks the Surface 3 will be a powerful tablet. Yes it is bigger and more heavy but is really a full blown computer. I love my two iPad Air tablets but the i7 512GB Surface Pro 3 is on order for ME!

 

[sracer]

No matter what anyone thinks the Surface 4 will be a powerful tablet. Yes it is bigger and more heavy but is really a full blown computer. I love my two iPad Air tablets but the i7 512GB Surface Pro 3 is on order for ME!

Since you own an iPad Air, how do you envision using the SP3 as a tablet? Do you think that the experience will be less than, similar, or better than the iPad?

 

[rowspaxe]

So here's my issues with the Surface Pro 3. It's too expensive. Lack of app's optimized for the tablet form. The Intel Broadwell chips are coming right around the corner which could dramatically change the form factor by only requiring passive cooling. Finally, I'm not a fan of Windows 8.1.

I guess I am in the waiting for sp4 camp. Broadwell could take the surface to ipad 4 weight. Also--i feel the new ntrig pen tech needs some refinement and additional driver support. Its hard to predict where the market will go. I think
tech will catch on as its exposure with student users grows. Love my sp1

 

[Newtons Apple]

Since you own an iPad Air, how do you envision using the SP3 as a tablet? Do you think that the experience will be less than, similar, or better than the iPad?

As much as Apple and some forum members think you can get anything accomplished on an Apple device, I need Quickbooks, Office and AutoCad in the field. I want the ability to copy and keep files on my device without using iTunes. Do not get me wrong as I love my Airs but until Apple unleashes and gives it a good bit more horsepower, it will be mostly for just fun.

 

[Charliebird]

No matter what anyone thinks the Surface 4 will be a powerful tablet. Yes it is bigger and more heavy but is really a full blown computer. I love my two iPad Air tablets but the i7 512GB Surface Pro 3 is on order for ME!

Sounds pretty awesome but it's going to be a long wait for you until the end of August. MS always seems to have production issues.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Sounds pretty awesome but it's going to be a long wait for you until the end of August. MS always seems to have production issues.

Until then I will lug my W530 Thinkpad around like I have been doing for years.

It's days are numbered as August will be here soon. It is not due to ship till August 30th. Good grief between that and the iPhone 6 in September, it will be a great time. I do not do Windows phones!

 

[nixiemaiden]

But the thing is, each year, that percent of things that are inconvenient on a tablet keeps shrinking. iOS 8 is going to have iCloud drive, and while it's still not entirely clear how that will work, it's a big step forward in giving iOS a file system like people have been asking for. If Apple eventually comes around to give iOS better pen support, then iOS could almost do everything that can be done on OS X, provided devs write apps for it.

For instance, one of the things I still need my desktop/laptop for is editing ePubs. But I just realized that it can be done on the iPad. Put the ePub in Good Reader, unzip it, edit the files (which are all text files), and zip them back up. So all we need is a dev to write an app that automates this unzip - zip process, and voila! One less task that needs to be done on a desktop system.

In the end, I think the tasks that are left for "desktops" will be tasks that require a bigger screen than a tablet. I mean, I wouldn't want to be editing a large excel file on a Surface. I'd want a 20+ inch monitor for that.

If my iPad had better pen support and had a usb port, I would be set.

As far as wanting a bigger screen, you can probably hook the surface up to an external display and edit that large excel file. You can probably hook up a full size keyboard and mouse as well.

The only downside I really see to the Surface is that I'm not really a fan of Windows 8 and the new UI. Apple could easily put a touch UI on top of Mac OSX that would blow Windows 8 away.

 

[Night Spring]

As far as wanting a bigger screen, you can probably hook the surface up to an external display and edit that large excel file. You can probably hook up a full size keyboard and mouse as well.

I do realize that you can hook up an external monitor, keyboard, etc. So in that scenario, I'd have the same desktop setup I have now (as I have an iMac, that takes up as much space as a regular external monitor). So Microsoft's scenario is that I come home, hook up the Surface to my monitor, and work on my excel file. Apple's scenario with Continuity (who knows how well it will actually work, but what they are aiming for) is that I come home, put down the iPad, and keep working seamlessly on the iMac from the exact spot I was on my iPad. More or less the same result, different methodology. Which way is better? We'll see!

 

[rowspaxe]

At this point, I do not think the Surface requires a rebuttal from Apple. Of course, that is always subject to change if and/or when the Surface becomes a stronger competitor to the iPad.

But we are talking about the surface pro 3. Feel free to chime in when you've
read a post or two.

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But the thing is, each year, that percent of things that are inconvenient on a tablet keeps shrinking. iOS 8 is going to have iCloud drive, and while it's still not entirely clear how that will work, it's a big step forward in giving iOS a file system like people have been asking for. If Apple eventually comes around to give iOS better pen support, then iOS could almost do everything that can be done on OS X, provided devs write apps for it.

Continuity with pen support would make the ipad interesting to me again.

 

[TWO2SEVEN]

But we are talking about the surface pro 3. Feel free to chime in when you've
read a post or two.

----------



Continuity with pen support would make the ipad interesting to me again.

Oh, did I need your permission?

 

[Night Spring]

Just picked up a Surface Pro 3 from local Best Buy. Will probably end up returning it, but decided to give it a try. Random thoughts.

Bigger screen is nice, Wouldn't mind an iPad of this size and weight.

Endless sideways scrolling (for store, news, etc.) gets tiring.

Gets pretty hot when playing a match-3 game.

TouchCover keyboard latches on really tight. Can't take it off in tight spaces for fear of hitting something from the forces of the cover and the Surface flying apart.

When I first put on the keyboard, it didn't initially recognize it. Had to open and close several times before the keyboard finally registered.

Same thing with the "smart on" function. The first few times I opened the cover, the screen stayed dark and had to touch the Windows "button" for it to wake up. Started waking up properly after opening and closing about a half a dozen times.

It's almost as big as the 13 inch MacBook Air. Anything that I do on the MBA will probably feel comfortable doing on the Surface Pro 3.

Haven't tried the pen yet, but it's just asking to be lost. The loop to attach it to the keyboard cover is a separate piece you have to stick on to the cover yourself, and not sure where to attach it so it won't get in the way.

Overall, doesn't quite feel as solid as the iPad. The iPad with a cover feels pretty sturdy, and I handle it like I would a hard-cover book. Can't put a cover on the Surface because that would cover up the vent. Overall, the Surface feels a bit more delicate than the iPad, especially the movable part like the kickstand.

Haven't given the keyboard a good workout yet, but the keys feel decent. Not as good as the MBA keyboard, but serviceable. The trackpad feels a bit "squeaky." Has this sort of rough, yucky feeling against my fingertip. I know I tend to be more sensitive than average about this -- didn't like the track wheel of the early iPods because of how they felt against my skin. The first track wheel I liked was the one on the iPod nano. In any case, I think most people would be okay with this trackpad, but just not premium like the MBA.

So, my feeling at this point is that if you need a super portable laptop, the Surface could be the device for you. But if what you want is a larger tablet, well I really hope Apple is making a larger iPad!

I mean, the Surface is a good device, and in a world where Apple didn't exist, I might be impressed by it. But compared to the iPad and MacBook, it just doesn't rise to the same level of polish. Oh, and carrying the Surface in a bag feels almost the same as carrying a 13 inch MBA. Especially with the key cover attached, the weight difference between a MBA and Surface isn't that significant. Now, if having the Surface means you can ditch your iPad, that might be a meaningful weight savings. But as a tablet, Windows 8 isn't as smooth as iOS.

So to get back to the thread topic, I don't think Apple needs to respond to the Surface quite yet. I don't think Apple can rest on its laurels, because Microsoft is doing a decent job of catching up, but no, they haven't overtaken Apple yet.

 

[maflynn]

Just picked up a Surface Pro 3 from local Best Buy. Will probably end up returning it, but decided to give it a try. Random thoughts.

Great write up, I appreciate your thoughts as I've been contemplating an SP3.

Here's my responses to your points

Endless sideways scrolling (for store, news, etc.) gets tiring.

I didn't realize - I guess being wider then longer in that sense will cause this. Did you try adjusting the DPI to use smaller text?

Gets pretty hot when playing a match-3 game.

I don't play games but hopefully the fan in the SP3 was kicking in for you

TouchCover keyboard latches on really tight. Can't take it off in tight spaces for fear of hitting something from the forces of the cover and the Surface flying apart.

I hadn't seen that issue when playing with the demo units. Either it will loosen up or yours is unusually tight.

When I first put on the keyboard, it didn't initially recognize it. Had to open and close several times before the keyboard finally registered.

That doesn't sound right, and perhaps its related to above point and they keyboard (or SP3) is defective

Same thing with the "smart on" function. The first few times I opened the cover, the screen stayed dark and had to touch the Windows "button" for it to wake up. Started waking up properly after opening and closing about a half a dozen times.

I think people are waiting for a specific patch for the SP3, they were expecting to see it before the SP3 rolls out but from what I can tell it hadn't hit the streets.

Haven't tried the pen yet, but it's just asking to be lost. The loop to attach it to the keyboard cover is a separate piece you have to stick on to the cover yourself, and not sure where to attach it so it won't get in the way.

I can see the prospect of losing the pen is a huge issue, and I agree with that concern 100% I hate the loop on the type cover, there had to be a better solution.

Overall, the Surface feels a bit more delicate than the iPad, especially the movable part like the kickstand.

The kickstand does have a fragile feel to it, but the folks that have the SP/SP2 and reviewers with the SP3 swear by it and love it. I hope it's been designed to hold up and doesn't give out in a year of usage.

tl;dr: I agree with a number of your concerns and criticisms but I still think it could be a great machine but I'm still on the fence.

 

[sracer]

"When I first put on the keyboard, it didn't initially recognize it. Had to open and close several times before the keyboard finally registered."

That doesn't sound right, and perhaps its related to above point and they keyboard (or SP3) is defective

It's a driver issue. It is being reported in various places and has been an issue since the 1st gen.

 

[rowspaxe]

H

Haven't tried the pen yet, but it's just asking to be lost. The loop to attach it to the keyboard cover is a separate piece you have to stick on to the cover yourself, and not sure where to attach it so it won't get in the way.
.

Does mummy still tie your mittens to your sleeve cuffs? Question to the tech press: "how do you keep track of the conventional pens you are now using?'
Most tuck them in the bag they are carrying the device in--it such a non issue. The fact you havent used the pen says this product is not for you. I would never consider the surface if i did not need the pen.