Yeah, her reviews are thorough and she comes across as being knowledgable and unbiased.
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All iPads Where is Apple's rebuttal to Microsoft Surface?
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Yeah, her reviews are thorough and she comes across as being knowledgable and unbiased.
You CANNOT compare an iPad to a Surface Pro 3.
iPad is a consumption device, SP3 or MBA is a full computer. ON a full OS you can do everything, on iOS you cannot do everything, and what you can create isn't well done, as a consumption device though the iPad is great.
MS have combined the full OS with the tablet OS in one device. The comparison is the cost between an MBA AND iPad to the SP3.
Depends on the task, though. I just wrote a business letter on my iPad, why wouldn't it be as well done as when I write one on a "full computer"?
Yes, I have a list of tasks that can't be done on an iPad or are better done on a "full computer." But I also have a list of things that can be done equally well on both, and a few things that are easier to do on the iPad. Like calendar, for instance. I never did find a calendar program for my computer that I liked. Since I got the iPad, all my calendars live on my iPad.
But its a good question. I cannot download a video from a torrent site as I forgot to record it as there is no app. If there was I cannot play it as its not supported. If I get a video app that supports it, it will play in software acceleration unless I convert it. Then, I cannot freely access that file anywhere on my home network, all of which I can do in Win 7 or on my rMBP.
My rebuttal to the SP3 which is a full OS and a tablet OS is twofold.
Make an MBA screen less, dock that to the iPad Pro. Or assess all functions that an iPad cannot do, or does not do well, free that up. No need for an iOS Finder, no need to put OSX on a touch UI, just give it full functionality and for some things the touch/tablet is s compromise, but thats ok
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I dont disagree, my point is as you said "Yes, I have a list of tasks that can't be done on an iPad" Id like to see that change, and we can accept that on a smaller touch UI some things won't be as convenient, but thats ok
You mean your TV provider hasn't provided an app. Our cable company has an app that allows us to program our DVR from wherever we are. Hmmmm, I hadn't even thought to look to see if this can be done on a regular computer. I'll have to look in to that!
I'm not sure about this software acceleration thing, but my video apps tend to play non-compatible format videos acceptably well. And what do you mean, you can't access your home network? There's been apps that lets you do that almost since the first iPad came out. I use one called FileBrowser. Check it out.
I think it HAS been changing, just bit by bit, instead of all at once. Every year, Apple adds more functions to iOS, and devs come up with apps that allow things to be done on the iPad that couldn't be done before.
I don't think the iPad would ever download torrents directly, but there are ways to do it remotely. I have my torrent client set to watch my Dropbox folder, if I'm on the iPad and find a torrent I want to download, I save the torrent to
Dropbox, and it starts downloading on my computer.
I agree with the post before where it was mentioned that people will get the surface for specific purposes. I got it for two reasons.
1. To take notes in class. I hate typing notes. It has been shown that writing out notes increases memory retention. While there have not been studies for writing in a tablet I prefer writing as it always helps me with remember things.
2. I will use this device to read sheet music off of. The increased size makes it perfect for that.
1. To take notes in class. I hate typing notes. It has been shown that writing out notes increases memory retention. While there have not been studies for writing in a tablet I prefer writing as it always helps me with remember things.
2. I will use this device to read sheet music off of. The increased size makes it perfect for that.
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Test drove the sp3 at best buy tonight. Very impressed. It feels much lighter than the spec weight of 1.7 lbs. Type cover 3 has a touch of the larger ipad smart cover--its not awful, but it far more noticable than the sp1,2 covers.
I think i will sell my ipad when i get this. The sp3 doesnt do what an ipad does--but i don t really need what an ipad does--I just need a tablet browser, technical pdf reader and sketch/writing tool. Admittedly an edge case.
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There is a new short and long review of sp3--many interesting pen comments. Lisa Gade is the only reviewer who gets the pen thing--the tech press is really clueless
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Its sold separately--so what? I just don't get why this bothers people. You can choose an color, buy a replacement or use another keyboard. I really dont care for the touch cover on the sp1, but mostly i use it as a tablet. So i may skip type cover 3.
Top 3 lame sp3 grips:
--type cover not included
--no pen silo in the device
--to expensive
There are many reasons to prefer other ultra books or the MBA--those 3 are not among them
I am surprised about the number of posters, and not just here, that are Apple users and now want to get a SP3. To me, the OS is the decider. So, its an iPad, or a Macbook, or both. Moving to Windows because of a device?
So, why move for an iPad and/or MBA to an SP3, and what about the change from OSX to Windows 8?
Just curious
So, why move for an iPad and/or MBA to an SP3, and what about the change from OSX to Windows 8?
Just curious
For what they are worth, here are my opinions towards the OP.
The problem with an iPad that runs full OSX is that OSX is not built for touch screens (and I don't believe it ever will, as by the time it makes sense, we'll be long past OSX). The most obvious reason this is the case is that the OSX GUI is built around keeping the display and input devices separate. Can you imagine losing half your desktop to an onscreen keyboard every time you wanted to type something?
A second reason is that iOS devices aren't built for serious work. Don't hate me. The problem is that it's too hard to type quickly on such a small keyboard, with no tactile feedback. So you can't really touch-type. (if you can; I can't)
Two methods of getting around this, and making OSX able to practically run on an iPad, would be firstly to use an external keyboard and mouse, basically ending up with an ARM powered notebook. The second method would be to make the iPad screen display a full-screen keyboard and touchpad area when it was connected to an external screen via air-play. The external screen could then comfortably display OSX in its entirety.
The problem with these ideas (that admittedly would be very cool) is that it seems extremely un-Apple-like to devote a large amount of resources (and on-board storage space for two operating systems) into enabling capability that a comparatively small number of people would actually use.
Personally, I am quite content in Apple keeping iOS and OSX separate. I am also happy with my large Windows desktop for games and work while I'm at home, my MBP for work away from home, and my iPod Touch for wasting time. Well, I would, if my iPod Touch wasn't a gen 4, massively outdated crash machine with terrible battery life. Hopefully that will be fixed once the next iPad Mini is released later this year (hopefully).
The problem with an iPad that runs full OSX is that OSX is not built for touch screens (and I don't believe it ever will, as by the time it makes sense, we'll be long past OSX). The most obvious reason this is the case is that the OSX GUI is built around keeping the display and input devices separate. Can you imagine losing half your desktop to an onscreen keyboard every time you wanted to type something?
A second reason is that iOS devices aren't built for serious work. Don't hate me. The problem is that it's too hard to type quickly on such a small keyboard, with no tactile feedback. So you can't really touch-type. (if you can; I can't)
Two methods of getting around this, and making OSX able to practically run on an iPad, would be firstly to use an external keyboard and mouse, basically ending up with an ARM powered notebook. The second method would be to make the iPad screen display a full-screen keyboard and touchpad area when it was connected to an external screen via air-play. The external screen could then comfortably display OSX in its entirety.
The problem with these ideas (that admittedly would be very cool) is that it seems extremely un-Apple-like to devote a large amount of resources (and on-board storage space for two operating systems) into enabling capability that a comparatively small number of people would actually use.
Personally, I am quite content in Apple keeping iOS and OSX separate. I am also happy with my large Windows desktop for games and work while I'm at home, my MBP for work away from home, and my iPod Touch for wasting time. Well, I would, if my iPod Touch wasn't a gen 4, massively outdated crash machine with terrible battery life. Hopefully that will be fixed once the next iPad Mini is released later this year (hopefully).
It increases the cost of an already expensive product. My point yesterday was just that. The other member was making a cost comparison and I gave my opinion that you need to consider the purchase of the type cover along with the cost of the SP3.
I mean, ultimately what you want is a full-fledged desktop OS in a tablet format. I get that. I've actually owned a Windows 8.1 tablet; I didn't care for it. It was plenty fast, very little lag, and I actually preferred Internet Explorer on it vice Chrome or Firefox which was a surprise. It actually was a decent netbook, but as a tablet it left me wanting. It didn't do the things I want a tablet for very well; for example, reading ebooks. At the time the Windows store apps were pretty bad, and a lot of stuff was missing that I wanted. I can't imagine doing torrents on my tablet anyway; I have a server at home that I remote into to kick off torrents and then they are added to my Plex folder for streaming. All of which I can do from my iPad, btw.
Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that as far as I'm concerned for my needs the problem with these Windows tablets is that they're compromise devices: not a great laptop and not a great tablet, but something in-between. If that's what suits your needs then great! One of the best things about the competition between tech companies is creating options that meet our various needs.
Why? I'm not married to apple, I think they have some great products but that doesn't mean no one else does. I'll not buy something just because it has a fruit logo but rather what fits my needs.
Its typically the Windows hate thing going on, so I find it odd that the SP3 must be seen as so cool that the OSX vs Windows is a non issue.
It doesnt increase the cost. The price of surface plus cover sold together would be the same as those items sold separately. So your point is-in effect-that surface is overpriced by about 10%.
Expensive product? I would ask, relative to what? Other ultrabooks are priced similarly to the $1130 sp3 plus cover. I think the price point is also midway between the 11" and 13" MBA. For your money the surface gives you a better screen, a digitizer and an inferior keyboard. It seems like a wash, value wise. And I always thought the Airs were a good value.
And, frankly, having that fanboyish "Apple good, all else bad" attitude is not good for Apple, either. Other companies making good products that people want help to temper Apple and focus them on making positive changes that people want. The iPad Mini, for example; a lot of Apple fans (and Jobs himself) looked down on smaller tablets, but the iPad Mini quickly became a hit because Samsung and others demonstrated that people want the option of having a smaller, lighter tablet. The alleged bigger screen(s) of the iPhone 6 is another example; the market for bigger smartphones is demonstrably there, and now Apple gets to take advantage of that.
I love Apple's products; I have a lot of them. But taking a hardline stance on behalf of a company just makes you a stooge for them, in my opinion.
I mean, ultimately what you want is a full-fledged desktop OS in a tablet format. I get that. I've actually owned a Windows 8.1 tablet; I didn't care for it. It was plenty fast, very little lag, and I actually preferred Internet Explorer on it vice Chrome or Firefox which was a surprise. It actually was a decent netbook, but as a tablet it left me wanting. It didn't do the things I want a tablet for very well; for example, reading ebooks. At the time the Windows store apps were pretty bad, and a lot of stuff was missing that I wanted. I can't imagine doing torrents on my tablet anyway; I have a server at home that I remote into to kick off torrents and then they are added to my Plex folder for streaming. All of which I can do from my iPad, btw.
Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that as far as I'm concerned for my needs the problem with these Windows tablets is that they're compromise devices: not a great laptop and not a great tablet, but something in-between. If that's what suits your needs then great! One of the best things about the competition between tech companies is creating options that meet our various needs.
I personally don't want a full OS on a tablet, I'm just offering my opinions on the SP3. The SP3 is however a device in tablet form and laptop form that does in fact have the tablet OS, Metro, and the full OS, Windows. If the SP3 had a more solid keyboard, or for those that seem to feel the keyboard is ok, then it is a genuine laptop. In tablet form, well its a genuine Windows tablet. If you can get a very laptoppy keyboard, even more so.
My gripe are those that compare an iPad to an SP3. iPad is a restricted tablet OS, whereas the SP3 is a tablet and full OS, unrestricted both ways. An Android tablet is also unrestricted. You can do any function you wish on a Windows laptop/desktop. That you can have the same experience on an SP3 is pretty good.
As I said on another post here, I see many Apple users opting for the SP3 to replace the iPad or iPad/MBA combo. Its as if the Microsoft innovative SP3 overrides the desired OS which I find really interesting.
Re the torrent thing, thats just one example of the many functions you cannot do with an iPad, that there is no valid reason why. Google iPad replace laptop and you will get many that almost have or have, and many where the iPad just falls short. Metro is locked down, but not as restrictive. So my iPad Air 128GB Cellular is my read, watch, play iDevice. Its only saving grace is portability, where it also excels.
I agree completely. To me it comes down to - do you want to use OS X or Windows 8. Frankly I spent 30 years of my life supporting Windows PC's. When I retired I bought a Mac with OS X and have no wish to go back to Windows, regardless of what platform it is delivered on. This was recently reinforced when my son's HP PC died because of a virus and I had to spend 2 days rebuilding it for him. Of that spent 3 hours on the phone with MS support folk in India dealing with a Windows 7 activation problem. No thanks, I have no wish to switch away from OS X.
When I have to spend over a thousand dollars for anything, I consider it an expensive product. Cars, laptops, etc. So yes the SP3 is an expensive device.
Sure high end MBPs cost over 2 grand, the new Mac Pro is even more expensive. Since its taking a lot of my money, I want to make sure its solving an issue that my rMBP doesn't. That is if I sell my rMBP for 1,300 (or there abouts) and then spend 1,500 for a SP3 and type cover. Will it do something better the my rMBP?
I've had a similar journey. I too have spent 30 years supporting and developing for Windows PCs. Switching to Mac and OSX was quite a relief... using computers actually became enjoyable. I spent my free time DOING THINGS rather than maintaining, supporting, and troubleshooting.
I've recently had to resume using Windows devices (in addition to the OSX devices at home). Nothing has changed since I left Windows. Even the Surface RT and Surface 2 tablets had the same maintenance and troubleshooting issues as a full-blown desktop PC.
You've done a lot of research on this subject. Keep in mind that for the entire lifetime of the Surface line, Microsoft has botched virtually every monthly update. They introduce fixes, some don't work, others break something else. They very rarely release a patch-to-the-patch before the next monthly update... resulting in having to deal with the issue for another month until their next attempt.
Here we are at the 3rd generation of Surface devices and there is still the issue of the keyboard covers not being recognized. It's been nearly 2 years and they still haven't fixed this issue. As you look at the bug threads on Windows devices forums, you'll see that many of the issues experienced with previous generations (even on different architectures) are still present.
In the end, you have enough information to make an informed decision.
Just throwing this out there because this happened to me a little bit ago. We had our DVR set to record the season finale of one of my shows. We have DirecTV and when it storms out...which in FL happens to be pretty often, we lose signal. So when I went to watch the recorded episode, it skips from the 20 minute mark to the 50 minute mark because the signal was jacked up for 30 minutes. (I hate directv but my husband refuses to switch because of nfl sunday ticket) And even with an app to be able to set your DVR, sometimes you still forget.
Luckily I am patient enough to wait until the episode becomes available online. However, I usually watch them on my desktop because I prefer the full site experience.
I was looking around last night and it looks like for the older surfaces, they sold a keyboard that could extend your battery life and if something like that was available for the surface pro 3, I think I would be all over it. My primary use is web development and while I have found some cool apps for my iPad, it seems like most of them you would need an ongoing internet connection to upload your work to test out functionality. With the surface pro 3, I could put a web server on there and do everything locally while on the go and then when I had a connection, could deploy.
Also at work, I am really tired of having to print out 10 pages worth of documentation to have to bring to a meeting only to make a few notes on it. I have stacks and stacks and stacks of paper that I don't want to throw out. I tried using my iPad for this and purchased the app good notes and it was ok but the pen input really left something to be desired. (still considering giving this another go with a jot pro stylus but not sure. A lot of people say that if you have stuff on your screen, it will stick under the disc and scratch the screen). Then I got upset because less than a month after I bought that, they discontinued that version and started a new one so I get no updates and it would cost $6 to upgrade. Yes I know...$6 to upgrade an app vs $1500 for a surface pro 3 is a silly comparison but damn the surface pro 3 is sexy.
Yeah, I tend to obsess over things. I drove my wife up a wall as I went back and forth on this. I've virtually made my decision. For me, I don't see the SP3 giving me any more then what I already have. Additionally, I lose out on OS X That's a biggie. So lack of a distinct advantage, coupled with a large disadvantage (no OSX) was the final straw. There were other factors and considerations as well.
I really like the SP3 and want one, but since I don't have a pile a cash laying around, I'll have to let this pass for now.
I saw a number of people complaining about that over at wpcentral and that's disconcerting to say the least.
Overall on paper like the SP3, but I think the execution of that idea is lacking. Maybe if the price point was a little lower, it would be different but as it stands, spending that much money caused me to really think and research on what is the best tool for me.
Why shouldn't we compare Surface Pro and iPads? A Surface is supposed to be a tablet as well as a laptop. How it works as a tablet should be an important part of evaluating it. If we discount the part where the Surface is also a tablet, there is no reason to get one over a MacBook or a regular Windows notebook.
And as a tablet, Surface Pro delivers an inferior experience to the iPad. I've said it before, but I'll repeat. It gets hot. The edges are a bit too sharp. It kicks you out of tablet mode and into desktop mode if, for example, I want to, run Word. Having full Windows avaiable is fine if the user is in control of when to invoke desktop mode and when they want to stay in tablet mode. But currently, because of the state of Windows 8 and the Windows 8 ecosystem, the user is not in control. Thus, Surface Pro is a decent laptop, but a poor tablet.
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By and large, the things being said about the Surface Pro 3 are the same things that were said about the Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2.
Sure, it's faster, but so is everything it's competing against.
Sure, it has more storage, but so does everything it's competing against.
That was my initial impression when I first saw the original Surface reveal -- that this would be a big change in mobile computing. Then as the details filtered in, I began to see that the execution was so problematic in so many ways. Three generations later, and many of the problems are still there.
People do want an all-in-one device. You want one, and I want one. Right now, I keep a MacBook Air at the office, an iMac at home, and use the iPad while commuting in between. The idea of having one device that could fill all three roles is very enticing. But if any of the three experiences are going to be worse on the all-in-one device, then the idea loses its appeal.